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2019-05-08 14:00:46 <wm-bot> Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 60 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @tgr & @chiborg - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting
2019-05-08 14:50:13 <wm-bot> Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 10 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @tgr & @chiborg - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting
2019-05-08 15:00:50 <chiborg> Welcome to the technical advice irc meeting! @tgr and me are ready for your questions ...
2019-05-08 15:01:02 <RhinosF1> Hi
2019-05-08 15:01:07 <pdehaye2> Hi
2019-05-08 15:01:14 <yannf> hi
2019-05-08 15:02:15 <pdehaye2> i have a question about Mediawiki on mobile and user scripts/gadgets: “which mobile-friendly skins work with user scripts/gadgets?”. Is this the right place to ask?
2019-05-08 15:03:37 <brendajerop> Hello everyone
2019-05-08 15:03:42 <chiborg> pdehaye2 This is the right place to ask. I'm not sure if there is a clear-cut answer, but I'll try to find out .
2019-05-08 15:03:49 <pdehaye2> thank you!
2019-05-08 15:03:58 <tgr> pdehaye2: that's very generic, do you have a specific script or gadget in mind?
2019-05-08 15:04:04 <RhinosF1> Does anyone know who the appropriate product designer / manger would be per T222533#5167080 for Special:Watchlist
2019-05-08 15:04:04 <stashbot> T222533: Special:Watchlist takes a while to update when the watchlist is cleared - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T222533
2019-05-08 15:04:19 <pdehaye2> Q1: which mobile-friendly skins work with user scripts/gadgets?
2019-05-08 15:05:21 <pdehaye2> Q2: In https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=User:Efly/Gadget-CreateNewItem.js what do $1 and $2 refer to? where is that defined?
2019-05-08 15:05:34 <brendajerop> I'd like to know what it takes to get whitelisted on Gerrit so as to automatically trigger Jenkinsbot?
2019-05-08 15:07:46 <RhinosF1> Another point, Does T218511 need the repetitive I've got this issue comments? Can someone ask for them to be toned down?
2019-05-08 15:07:47 <stashbot> T218511: After opening a diff, entry on Special:Watchlist sometimes stays unread (bold) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218511
2019-05-08 15:07:59 <tgr> brendajerop: see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Continuous_integration/Whitelist
2019-05-08 15:09:11 <tgr> if you mean in the sense of when a new contributor gets whitelisted, it's typically after they have a few commits that have been merged
2019-05-08 15:10:30 <tgr> RhinosF1: recent changes are maintained by the Growth team
2019-05-08 15:11:00 <tgr> the watchlist is implemented almost the same way, so that's where I'd go
2019-05-08 15:11:18 <superyetkin> I am using Module:WikidataIB to fetch data from Wikidata. Is there any way to get the value only (without units)? My aim is to pass the output to the convert function
2019-05-08 15:11:25 <tgr> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Growth
2019-05-08 15:11:32 <brendajerop> tgr: Thank you.
2019-05-08 15:12:25 <RhinosF1> tgr, kostajh has asked on the ticket for a someone to comment on what UX would be desired and if a product manager/designer could comment, I was wondering if it was worth subscribing anyone to the ticket who would fit that? And who that would be?
2019-05-08 15:13:22 <kostajh> RhinosF1: I'll tag the product manager on my team
2019-05-08 15:14:22 <tgr> thanks kostajh!
2019-05-08 15:14:23 <RhinosF1> kostajh, That's great, I've looked at /growth and that shows Marshal_ and Rita Ho to probably be the best to ask
2019-05-08 15:14:27 <kostajh> RhinosF1: although for what it's worth, I think Growth is aiming to work more on the RCFilters as they relate to watchlist, while Core Platform Team is probably more interested in Special:EditWatchlist
2019-05-08 15:14:50 <kostajh> so you may get a quicker response by tagging people from their team.
2019-05-08 15:14:56 <chiborg> pdehaye2: As far as I know and as my research goes, all skins "support" gadgets in the sense that the gadget code is loaded in every skin. However, if the gadgets make certain assumptions about the structure of the markup, then the gadget might not work for skins where the markup is different.
2019-05-08 15:15:06 <RhinosF1> I'll try and find out who it is
2019-05-08 15:15:15 <pdehaye2> @tgr I am particularly interested in skins that get mw.notify to work properly on mobile
2019-05-08 15:16:44 <pdehaye2> @chiborg thanks. then the q becomes why mw.notify does not work with MobileFrontend
2019-05-08 15:16:51 <RhinosF1> Kostajh, about to tag someone from Core Platform now
2019-05-08 15:17:54 <tgr> pdehaye2: MobileFrontend / MinervaNeue is a very special skin that throws out a lot of content to make the page lightweight
2019-05-08 15:18:12 <tgr> I'd expect it to work with all other skins
2019-05-08 15:18:24 <pdehaye2> Q3: I am using the Wikidata Query Service, with the graph view. Is there a way to associate hyperlinks to nodes and/or edges, or even hovers or infoboxes? If not, does anybody know of similar, maybe through some external visualisation service?
2019-05-08 15:18:27 <tgr> for some value of "work", not necessarily a good user experience on mobile
2019-05-08 15:18:54 <pdehaye2> ah! interesting, tgr
2019-05-08 15:19:14 <tgr> some skins have been designed to be responsive and work on small screens, so I'd try those
2019-05-08 15:19:14 <chiborg> pdehaye2: I've done a very quick test (going to the mobile wikipedia in my desktop browser, opening the dev tools and calling mw.notify.directly) and it displayed a notification a the bottom of the screen.
2019-05-08 15:19:39 <RhinosF1> Kostajh, Done
2019-05-08 15:19:49 <kostajh> RhinosF1: thx
2019-05-08 15:19:59 <RhinosF1> np
2019-05-08 15:19:59 <tgr> if you are asking about Wikimedia wikis, Timeless is a responsive skin
2019-05-08 15:20:18 <tgr> and there is work on making Vector responsive but I think not quite finished yet
2019-05-08 15:20:24 <pdehaye2> what skin is used on my mobile when i go to wikipedia? how do i find out
2019-05-08 15:20:41 <RhinosF1> pdehaye2, It's in the settings dialog
2019-05-08 15:20:43 <tgr> ("responsive" here meaning that it rearranges itself on small screens to better adapt)
2019-05-08 15:21:05 <chiborg> pdehaye2 That's MinervaNeue plus MobilFrontend extesion
2019-05-08 15:21:10 <pdehaye2> i m asking because i need to pick a skin for my wikibase instance, and it s crucial that mw.notify and to some extent OOUI work
2019-05-08 15:22:19 <tgr> pdehaye2: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=User:Efly/Gadget-CreateNewItem.js has comments about what $1 / $2 are, are you looking for information beyond that?
2019-05-08 15:22:57 <chiborg> pdehaye2 for mobile and wikidata you might also look at the termbox project (still under development): https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Development/Termbox
2019-05-08 15:23:09 <chiborg> wikibase, not wikidata
2019-05-08 15:23:12 <RhinosF1> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/5OKSsprm/
2019-05-08 15:23:20 <tgr> you can see it being set near the end of the script (last line of init() )
2019-05-08 15:23:28 <RhinosF1> 16:07:47 <RhinosF1> Another point, Does T218511 need the repetitive I've got this issue comments? Can someone ask for them to be toned down?
2019-05-08 15:23:28 <RhinosF1> _ Did this get a bit lost in our busy chat?
2019-05-08 15:23:29 <stashbot> T218511: After opening a diff, entry on Special:Watchlist sometimes stays unread (bold) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218511
2019-05-08 15:24:08 <pdehaye2> thanks @chiborg @tgr for responses to my Q1 about mobile and skins and scripts
2019-05-08 15:26:11 <Isarra> pdehaye2: You could also try any of these: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:Mobile_skins
2019-05-08 15:26:15 <pdehaye2> for Q2 on $1 and $2 in Gadget-CreateNewItem.js, I see those comments. but then when i use the script on Wikidata it says “Create New Item” instead of $2, which does not appear anywhere in the script. And when I copy/paste it on my own Wikibase instance, $2 becomes empty. So I am assuming $1 and $2 refer to something defined elsewhere.
2019-05-08 15:27:21 <superyetkin> I am using Module:WikidataIB to fetch data from Wikidata. Is there any way to get the value only (without units)? My aim is to pass the output to the convert function
2019-05-08 15:28:28 <bawolff> pdehaye2: In messages in general, $1 and so on are parameters
2019-05-08 15:28:47 <pdehaye2> so @bawolff, where do they get passed on?
2019-05-08 15:29:04 <bawolff> pdehaye2: So you see near the end of the script there is: mw.message( 'not-found-message', $innerA.text(), $( '#n-special-newitem' ).text() )
2019-05-08 15:29:05 <tgr> pdehaye2: #n-special-newitem is the sidebar entry called newitem
2019-05-08 15:29:28 <pdehaye2> not sure i understand
2019-05-08 15:29:35 <tgr> special-newitem, rather
2019-05-08 15:29:45 <tgr> you can see it defined in https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Sidebar
2019-05-08 15:29:48 <bawolff> for mw.message function, the first argument is the message name, and all the other arguments are the values for $1, $2 and so on
2019-05-08 15:30:28 <tgr> the sidebar is the list of small links below the site logo (on most skins)
2019-05-08 15:31:04 <tgr> this user script seems to assume there's a "create new item" link there
2019-05-08 15:31:15 <pdehaye2> ah, that’s the assumption that i was missing
2019-05-08 15:31:17 <tgr> so either you'd need to modify the script, or add that
2019-05-08 15:31:25 <pdehaye2> thank you. i think i can deal with it now from there.
2019-05-08 15:31:31 <pdehaye2> for that question
2019-05-08 15:31:31 <tgr> in general, user scripts are rarely written with portability in mind
2019-05-08 15:32:45 <pdehaye2> yes, that is the understatement of the year
2019-05-08 15:33:05 <pdehaye2> i wish it wasn’t that way
2019-05-08 15:33:51 <chiborg> pdehaye2 I'll relay your third question to the wikidata team, I can't answer that
2019-05-08 15:33:52 <pdehaye2> particularly for the scripts most relevant to wikibase (where there is a layer of complication around indexing). due to federation goals of the WMF it might make sense to think of it though
2019-05-08 15:34:01 <pdehaye2> thankk you, @chiborg
2019-05-08 15:34:35 <tgr> superyetkin: if you search for the string "unit" in that module you find
2019-05-08 15:34:37 <tgr> local showunits = parseParam(args.su or args.showunits, true)
2019-05-08 15:35:07 <tgr> so it seems like showunits=no or something like that would work
2019-05-08 15:39:04 <pdehaye2> @bawolff, @tgr the #n-special-newitem hack is so badass! basically in order to know how to say “Create New Item” in many languages, the author goes back to look at the relevant sidebar entry, so s/he can leverage the work of the translators. but in the process they s/he introduces dependency on the skin chosen, which for me is different from the Wikimedia properties.
2019-05-08 15:40:12 <tgr> pdehaye2: it's not really on the skin, Wiidata has a customized sidebar, you can do the same for any skin by editing the MediaWiki:Sidebar page
2019-05-08 15:41:12 <tgr> if you check https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Sidebar?action=raw you'll see a line saying
2019-05-08 15:41:15 <tgr> ** special-newitem-url|special-newitem
2019-05-08 15:41:58 <tgr> that means show a sidebar entry with the target page name taken from MediaWiki:Special-newitem-url and the link text taken from MediaWiki:Special-newitem
2019-05-08 15:45:00 <tgr> pdehaye2: re Q3, i kinda doubt that UI could support links
2019-05-08 15:45:11 <tgr> clicking on the nodes is used to expand them
2019-05-08 15:45:46 <tgr> also the docs at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:SPARQL_query_service/Wikidata_Query_Help/Result_Views don't mention it
2019-05-08 15:46:16 <chiborg> pdehaye2: I've asked the wikidata team and even they can't answer right away. The graph documentation does not mention having hyperlinks, so I guess that would be an additional feature for the graph view. A useful one, never the less.
2019-05-08 15:47:22 <superyetkin> tgr: thanks, the documentation lacks this information
2019-05-08 15:47:27 <tgr> RhinosF1: are you asking about all the people in T218511 saying they are affected by the bug?
2019-05-08 15:47:28 <stashbot> T218511: After opening a diff, entry on Special:Watchlist sometimes stays unread (bold) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218511
2019-05-08 15:48:15 <RhinosF1> tgr, yes I'm asking if it's needed and is it appropiate for someone to ask unless they're posting new info to not?
2019-05-08 15:48:24 <superyetkin> Phabricator blocked on proxy servers?
2019-05-08 15:48:40 <superyetkin> I am getting Internal Server Error
2019-05-08 15:49:26 <tgr> works for me
2019-05-08 15:49:34 <tgr> are you trying to search?
2019-05-08 15:49:36 <pdehaye2> @tgr so in the custom sidebar, the left hand side (the link) is hardcoded so as to be faster, while the right hand side is done this way to allow for translations?
2019-05-08 15:50:03 <tgr> both allow for translation
2019-05-08 15:50:18 <pdehaye2> @chiborg thanks! i would think it could be useful, given that we could quickly leverage the infobox framework for instance
2019-05-08 15:50:36 <tgr> if the string does not have any translations, it's used as is
2019-05-08 15:50:48 <tgr> there is more documentation at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sidebar
2019-05-08 15:51:18 <chiborg> pdehaye2 I fear you might have to open a Phabricator ticket, requesting the feature.
2019-05-08 15:51:53 <tgr> RhinosF1: I'd leave that kind of thing to the maintainers / phab admins
2019-05-08 15:52:03 <tgr> they tend to ask if the response volume gets out of hand
2019-05-08 15:52:54 <RhinosF1> tgr, that's why I asked in here to prompt a phab admin to think about it, It's not too bad but it's still annoying
2019-05-08 16:00:51 <superyetkin> how to format the coordinate values fetched from Wikidata?
2019-05-08 16:00:53 <superyetkin> e.g. 39�56'17.99"N, 32�51'42.98"E
2019-05-08 16:01:03 <pdehaye2> @chiborg done
2019-05-08 16:01:18 <superyetkin> a module to parse this?
2019-05-08 16:01:35 <superyetkin> so that the coordinates template works with it?
2019-05-08 16:04:15 <chiborg> Thanks all for participating in the technical advice meeting!
2019-05-08 16:04:42 <tgr> superyetkin: per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module:WikidataIB#Coordinates the module seems to be able to handle that
2019-05-08 16:51:32 <bawolff> Anyone want to review https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/mediawiki/core/+/502040/ ? Be nice for the installer not to be but ugly before next release
2019-05-08 16:54:52 <Zppix> bawolff: source code... not ugly... what world do you live in lol
2019-05-08 16:55:38 <bawolff> I want the rendered html to not be ugly :P
2019-05-08 16:57:15 <Zppix> bawolff: it gives it personality though :P
2019-05-08 17:59:08 <RhinosF1> Andre, :) I see you saw my suggestion
2019-05-08 21:15:46 <poe> Does anyone know how to get the vernacular names of all languages in wikispecies API (https://species.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&titles=Quercus%20ilex)? I haven't found it in the documentation :S
2019-05-08 21:18:28 <poe> I guess I could always use https://species.wikimedia.org/?title=Quercus%20ilex&action=raw
2019-05-08 21:19:50 <bawolff> you could also try query.wikidata.org (not wikispecies but prob has similar info)
2019-05-08 21:20:28 <poe> it turns out that wikidata does not have the common names most of the time
2019-05-08 21:26:02 <poe> well that's not true... wikidata has the vernacular names, but for some languages it has too many names (includes plurals, etc.). I can't easily get the most common name from wikidata
2019-05-08 21:27:15 <poe> for English, for example, the label is usually the scientific name
2019-05-08 21:29:26 <Reedy> why they have aliases
2019-05-08 21:39:55 <poe> they have aliases, but if I can't know if the alias is singular or plural, I get too many names
2019-05-08 21:40:41 <poe> for English it may be ok, for Spanish, it does not work
2019-05-08 21:43:09 <poe> well, thanks, I think I will work with both wikidata api and wikispecies raw output

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