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2019-06-05 00:21:23 <catfuneral> which datastore backend does wikimedia use for grafana ?
2019-06-05 00:23:05 <catfuneral> looks like its graphite
2019-06-05 00:23:12 <AntiComposite> Yes
2019-06-05 13:25:20 <godog> catfuneral: graphite and prometheus mostly
2019-06-05 14:00:28 <wm-bot> Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 60 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @CFisch_WMDE & @bd808 - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting
2019-06-05 14:02:27 <bd808> has been warned :)
2019-06-05 14:17:01 <sario528> Anyone know this week's meeting topic?
2019-06-05 14:17:49 <bd808> sario528: We don't have an official one yet. I think Fisch and I will just try to help with whatever people bring up in the meeting. :)
2019-06-05 14:18:03 <sario528> Ok
2019-06-05 14:21:13 <sario528> Random suggestion: Meeting hosts should be voiced in channel during the meeting, to help identify them
2019-06-05 14:28:36 <Dragonfly6-7> meeting starts at what time?
2019-06-05 14:29:35 <apergos> half an hour I believe
2019-06-05 14:30:03 <bd808> yes, 15:00 UTC
2019-06-05 14:31:16 <Lucas_WMDE> wm-bot: next ;)
2019-06-05 14:45:39 <Dragonfly6-7> I want to fuss about the file-import tools
2019-06-05 14:50:23 <wm-bot> Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 10 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @CFisch_WMDE & @bd808 - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting
2019-06-05 15:02:18 <CFisch_WMDE> \o/
2019-06-05 15:02:34 <CFisch_WMDE> Welcome to the Technical Advice IRC Meeting everybody!
2019-06-05 15:03:27 <Reedy> I need things I can do while waiting for jenkins
2019-06-05 15:03:40 <apergos> run dumps profiling jobs :-P
2019-06-05 15:03:44 <CFisch_WMDE> We have no pre-posted topics on the page so feel free and fire away with your stuff!
2019-06-05 15:04:00 <CFisch_WMDE> :-D
2019-06-05 15:04:05 <Reedy> fire?
2019-06-05 15:04:07 <Reedy> can we fire jenkins?
2019-06-05 15:04:11 <Reedy> he's a slacker
2019-06-05 15:04:19 <apergos> under-resourced
2019-06-05 15:04:53 <bd808> waves
2019-06-05 15:05:16 <apergos> I have a serious q but it can wait til others have asked
2019-06-05 15:05:23 <apergos> looks at Dragonfly6-7 for example
2019-06-05 15:07:18 <CFisch_WMDE> only knows Firefly E01-14
2019-06-05 15:08:05 <yannf> I have questions about Wikidata
2019-06-05 15:08:52 <yannf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_paintings_by_Paul_C%C3%A9zanne
2019-06-05 15:08:53 <awight> Reedy: :p fire Jenkins and you're gonna be cooking your own pasta with butter
2019-06-05 15:09:13 <yannf> I'd like to generate this with a WD query, including the references
2019-06-05 15:09:21 <apergos> nothing wrong with home-cooked pasta with butter. now I'm hungry, thanks a lot
2019-06-05 15:09:40 <yannf> I got the table, but I don't know how to get the ref.
2019-06-05 15:10:10 <yannf> likes some pasta and butter ;oP
2019-06-05 15:10:20 <CFisch_WMDE> yannf: Hmmm good question. - Any Wikidata pro in here? Lucas_WMDE for example? ;-)
2019-06-05 15:10:26 <Lucas_WMDE> I can help with the SPARQL part for references, but I have no idea about how to integrate that with Listeria
2019-06-05 15:10:53 <Dragonfly6-7> so I wanted to fuss about the two tools, FileImporter and URL2Commons, both of which have a feature which would be very useful for the other
2019-06-05 15:10:54 <yannf> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Yann/List_of_paintings_by_Paul_C%C3%A9zanne
2019-06-05 15:10:59 <yannf> for the table ^
2019-06-05 15:11:54 <Lucas_WMDE> yannf: which of the statements has the interesting references?
2019-06-05 15:12:22 <CFisch_WMDE> Dragonfly6-7: So what's the idea?
2019-06-05 15:12:37 <Dragonfly6-7> let me think how to phrase this
2019-06-05 15:12:43 <yannf> P973
2019-06-05 15:14:10 <Dragonfly6-7> both URL2Commons and FileImporter give the option to change the filename in the process of importing. Both tools also give you the option to then (delete the original / tag it for deletion). However, only URL2Commons automatically points to the new name.
2019-06-05 15:14:22 <Dragonfly6-7> this would be useful in FileImporter
2019-06-05 15:14:24 <yannf> I'd like to have <ref>[P973 Bla Bla]</ref>
2019-06-05 15:14:30 <Lucas_WMDE> oh
2019-06-05 15:14:39 <Dragonfly6-7> Also
2019-06-05 15:14:48 <Lucas_WMDE> so not references of statements (in the Wikidata sense), but using a main statement as a reference (in the Wikipedia / cite sense)
2019-06-05 15:14:55 <Lucas_WMDE> I don’t think I can help with that, sorry
2019-06-05 15:15:35 <yannf> Lucas_WMDE, yes
2019-06-05 15:16:34 <CFisch_WMDE> Dragonfly6-7: We're currently working on adding a process that allows automatic addition of things to the source file
2019-06-05 15:16:35 <Dragonfly6-7> FileImporter actually previews what the metadata will look like. URL2Commons makes sure that all the necessary fields are filled in, and that there's a proper file extension, and that the filename isn't in use, but it doesn't give you a preview of the page, and thus any mistakes - a missing { , for instance - don't get noticed until after the file has been loaded.
2019-06-05 15:16:55 <RF1dle> Where are the prefilled reasons pages stored?
2019-06-05 15:17:33 <CFisch_WMDE> Dragonfly6-7: Specifically we want to add the now-commons template / equivalent that would than also include the target's file name
2019-06-05 15:17:36 <Dragonfly6-7> so sometimes I'll load a dozen files in a series, and use the same set of metadata, and they'll all have the same missing { which breaks all the templates in each of them, and I'll only notice when the bot comes in and tags them all as "no license".
2019-06-05 15:17:47 <yannf> is there a way to get a WD value in Wikipedia? Then I can create a template
2019-06-05 15:18:00 <yannf> Lucas_WMDE, ^
2019-06-05 15:18:15 <Dragonfly6-7> CFisch_WMDE - so you're saying that my first request is a known issue which is already being addressed?
2019-06-05 15:18:18 <Lucas_WMDE> yannf: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:How_to_use_data_on_Wikimedia_projects ?
2019-06-05 15:18:25 <CFisch_WMDE> Dragonfly6-7: Yes :-)
2019-06-05 15:18:33 <Dragonfly6-7> CFisch_WMDE - splendid. And my second request?
2019-06-05 15:20:04 <CFisch_WMDE> For the second request: We're currently not in the situation to maintain / expand the URL2comons tool - but if you could add a task on Phabricator for your request and it might be picked up then by a volunteer.
2019-06-05 15:20:42 <CFisch_WMDE> ( if you're not familiar with Phabricator I could also create that task )
2019-06-05 15:20:45 <yannf> Lucas_WMDE, ok, thanks. I will have a problem when there are multiple values, but I can start with that
2019-06-05 15:22:10 <Dragonfly6-7> CFisch_WMDE - that would be very kind of you, as Phabricator is not within my skillset.
2019-06-05 15:22:23 <Dragonfly6-7> CFisch_WMDE - have I phrased my request clearly enough?
2019-06-05 15:22:25 <CFisch_WMDE> Dragonfly6-7: Just out of curiosity: What's your use case when you upload multiple files with URL2commons?
2019-06-05 15:22:41 <Dragonfly6-7> CFisch_WMDE - I don't entirely understand what you're asking, sorry.
2019-06-05 15:22:44 <CFisch_WMDE> Dragonfly6-7: Yes, I got the idea :-)
2019-06-05 15:22:54 <Dragonfly6-7> 'use case' ?
2019-06-05 15:23:02 <Dragonfly6-7> how often does it happen, under what circumstances do I do it?
2019-06-05 15:23:11 <CFisch_WMDE> Under what circumstances :-)
2019-06-05 15:23:26 <CFisch_WMDE> Sorry for my tech slang ;-D
2019-06-05 15:23:39 <Dragonfly6-7> let's say I find someone's website with an archive of newspaper cartoons by a cartoonist who died in 1929.
2019-06-05 15:23:50 <bd808> "use case" is the fancy way of asking "what do you do and why?"
2019-06-05 15:23:53 <Dragonfly6-7> and I want to put them all on Commons
2019-06-05 15:24:15 <Dragonfly6-7> they all have the same creator, and the same license
2019-06-05 15:24:47 <Dragonfly6-7> so it's quicker to just leave those fields filled in
2019-06-05 15:24:57 <Dragonfly6-7> (this is not a hypothetical, i should say)
2019-06-05 15:25:24 <CFisch_WMDE> Ah, yeah I get it. Good example, thanks.
2019-06-05 15:25:47 <Dragonfly6-7> and as I leave those fields filled in, any typos - if I hold the 'shift' key down for a fraction of a second briefer than I thought, and a } becomes a ] - remain
2019-06-05 15:25:57 <Dragonfly6-7> and I end up with a ton of images that all get tagged as 'no license'
2019-06-05 15:30:00 <apergos> I'd like to ask about profiling, since no one else is speaking up
2019-06-05 15:30:07 <bd808> I see that URL2Commons is solo-maintained by Magnus. That makes me think that feature requests that don't come from someone willing to provide code might take a while.
2019-06-05 15:30:40 <bd808> apergos: what sorts of things are you thinking about profiling?
2019-06-05 15:30:46 <apergos> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Profiling
2019-06-05 15:30:58 <apergos> oh I have done it. just that I'm sure I'm doing it 'the wrong way'
2019-06-05 15:31:17 <bd808> :) so the senior engineer mindset
2019-06-05 15:31:19 <apergos> that manual page is out of date (1.32: StartProfiler is no longer used), so I found that, ok
2019-06-05 15:31:36 <Dragonfly6-7> bd808 - would it be possible to emulate the feature from FileImporter within URL2Commons?
2019-06-05 15:31:54 <apergos> one is just suppose to set the global right in LocalSettings (so I did that). I'm profiling *maintenance scripts*
2019-06-05 15:32:07 <bd808> apergos: the first person I would ask about profiling is Krinkle and the second would be AaronSchulz
2019-06-05 15:32:12 <Dragonfly6-7> "simply reuse the relevant code", he suggested blithely, with no knowledge of how feasible it is.
2019-06-05 15:32:59 <apergos> which is not really documented (or the docs are broken/obsolete). I got whines about a bad # of args in includes/libs/Xhprof.php
2019-06-05 15:33:39 <bd808> Dragonfly6-7: FileImporter (if I'm thinking of the right thing) is part of MediaWiki. URL2Commons is a tool that Magnus wrote. There is probably no simple way for them to "share" code.
2019-06-05 15:33:53 <apergos> so I had to edit the arg list in enable() from [ $flags, $options ] to just [ $flags ]
2019-06-05 15:34:08 <apergos> and then actually add a stanza to the 'disable' function to write out the data someplace
2019-06-05 15:34:14 <yannf> Lucas_WMDE, ok, it works, but I have a problem with {{Painting table row}}
2019-06-05 15:34:27 <apergos> surely this means I'm going about this a brute force 'yeah it works but that's not how to really do it' way...
2019-06-05 15:34:47 <apergos> ah I should say: tideways-xhprof <-- that's what I'm using, apparently that's what is preferred
2019-06-05 15:35:19 <bd808> yeah, I think tideways is the only maintained fork of xhprof these days
2019-06-05 15:35:22 <Dragonfly6-7> bd808 - I'm thinking of the "Export to Wikimedia Commons" link
2019-06-05 15:35:28 <sario528> What would be a good task/project for someone with minimal coding experience?
2019-06-05 15:35:40 <CFisch_WMDE> Dragonfly6-7: The tool was written and is maintained by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Magnus_Manske . He does his coding on some different platform than Phabricator but I will leave him a task with your suggestion there.
2019-06-05 15:35:55 <CFisch_WMDE> Dragonfly6-7: Can you give me your on wiki name so I can add it to the task?
2019-06-05 15:36:03 <bd808> sario528: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/169/ might be a good place to start looking
2019-06-05 15:36:30 <Dragonfly6-7> DragonflySixtyseven
2019-06-05 15:36:41 <sario528> bd808: thanks
2019-06-05 15:37:31 <Dragonfly6-7> (which is too long a name for Freenode, and when I had my RfA, someone poached "Dragonfly67" on here, so I decided to add a hyphen. And now I'm used to it.)
2019-06-05 15:38:54 <RF1dle> Dragonfly6-7: Dragonfly67 is actually free now
2019-06-05 15:39:08 <Dragonfly6-7> yes, I know
2019-06-05 15:39:19 <Dragonfly6-7> as I said, I'm used to this one now.
2019-06-05 15:39:23 <yannf> Lucas_WMDE, what's the difference between {{#statements: and {{#invoke: ?
2019-06-05 15:39:27 <RF1dle> ah
2019-06-05 15:41:01 <CFisch_WMDE> Dragonfly6-7: That's the task I created for Magnus on his project https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/url2commons/issues/9/allow-users-to-see-a-preview-of-their
2019-06-05 15:41:29 <CFisch_WMDE> If he's working on it you'll probably see movement there ( due to comments added etc )
2019-06-05 15:41:40 <Dragonfly6-7> that'll do, thanks
2019-06-05 15:42:58 <Lucas_WMDE> yannf: {{#statements:}} is a parser function from Wikibase that you can use for some simple data access
2019-06-05 15:43:11 <Lucas_WMDE> {{#invoke:}} is a parser function from Scribunto that you can use to invoke a Lua module
2019-06-05 15:43:20 <Lucas_WMDE> which may use Wikibase’s Lua functions to get data
2019-06-05 15:43:26 <Lucas_WMDE> but also completely unrelated things
2019-06-05 15:43:41 <yannf> ok thanks
2019-06-05 15:50:49 <Dragonfly6-7> oh, one other thing
2019-06-05 15:51:09 <Dragonfly6-7> when you import a file from enwiki to commons, the tool automatically detects the file extension and does not allow you to change it
2019-06-05 15:51:10 <Dragonfly6-7> but
2019-06-05 15:51:36 <Dragonfly6-7> when you rename a file on enwiki, the tool *does not* automatically detect the file extension, and if you mistype you can accidentally change it, which leads to an error message
2019-06-05 15:53:08 <CFisch_WMDE> Sooo you mean if you give the file a different extension on enwiki than what would be appropriate for the file and then try to import it? ( e.g. renaming a .gif file to '.jpg' )
2019-06-05 15:55:51 <yannf> Lucas_WMDE, do you know where this =CONCATENATE( is used?
2019-06-05 15:56:15 <CFisch_WMDE> We just recently applied a check in the import, that would be triggered, if the file you try to import has a "wrong" file extension on the source wiki ( in the example enwiki )
2019-06-05 15:56:37 <CFisch_WMDE> You cannot import that file unless you change the extension on the source in that case.
2019-06-05 15:56:54 <Dragonfly6-7> CFisch_WMDE - not necessarily importing it, just changing the filename on enwiki (for nonfree files with inappropriate names)
2019-06-05 15:57:15 <Dragonfly6-7> say, a historic photo of a dead person whose name has been misspelled
2019-06-05 15:59:36 <CFisch_WMDE> Dragonfly6-7: Hmm so your issue is generally about changing the file name on a wiki?
2019-06-05 15:59:39 <Dragonfly6-7> yes
2019-06-05 15:59:59 <CFisch_WMDE> If you want to fix the file name on the wiki and then by accident change the extension.
2019-06-05 16:00:01 <Dragonfly6-7> yes
2019-06-05 16:00:10 <Dragonfly6-7> then you get an error message and you have to do it again
2019-06-05 16:00:14 <CFisch_WMDE> Ok I got it know :-)
2019-06-05 16:00:17 <CFisch_WMDE> -k
2019-06-05 16:01:06 <CFisch_WMDE> Yeah might be an idea to not allow touching the file extension when renaming files on a wiki.
2019-06-05 16:01:28 <CFisch_WMDE> But I also could imagine that in some cases you want to change the extension :-)
2019-06-05 16:01:44 <CFisch_WMDE> I'll look on Phabricator and see if I can find a related request.
2019-06-05 16:02:02 <CFisch_WMDE> Otherwise I could add one for you.
2019-06-05 16:03:13 <Dragonfly6-7> when would you want to change the extension?
2019-06-05 16:03:46 <AntiComposite> .ogg -> .ogv or .oga
2019-06-05 16:03:58 <Dragonfly6-7> ah
2019-06-05 16:04:33 <Lucas_WMDE> yannf: I don’t understand what you mean by that, sorry
2019-06-05 16:04:47 <yannf> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Yann/List_of_paintings_by_Paul_C%C3%A9zanne
2019-06-05 16:04:58 <yannf> Lucas_WMDE, here at the bottom ^
2019-06-05 16:05:50 <yannf> this was done by Jarekt
2019-06-05 16:07:20 <Lucas_WMDE> that doesn’t look like SPARQL to me
2019-06-05 16:07:33 <Lucas_WMDE> and I don’t think it’s Lua either
2019-06-05 16:08:04 <Reedy> Lucas_WMDE: It's Excel/Spreadsheet :P
2019-06-05 16:10:11 <yannf> ok, so download as CSV, and then use a speadsheet software
2019-06-05 16:17:15 <CFisch_WMDE> Dragonfly6-7: Here's your task https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T225113 ;-)
2019-06-05 16:18:32 <CFisch_WMDE> The official part of the meeting is over since a few minutes now. So thanks to everyone involved and see you next time! o/
2019-06-05 16:19:23 <CFisch_WMDE> And as usual: Remember https://discourse-mediawiki.wmflabs.org/ for 24/7 technical advice :-D
2019-06-05 16:28:40 <apergos> I'll see if Krinkle is around later to check in with about the non-hackish way to do profiling
2019-06-05 16:28:41 <apergos> thanks a lot
2019-06-05 16:29:05 <Dragonfly6-7> CFisch_WMDE, very kind, thank you
2019-06-05 17:35:14 <bd808> CFisch_NA: I guess I was mostly around for moral support today. Thanks for doing most of the answering :)
2019-06-05 18:41:33 <anarcat> hello!
2019-06-05 18:42:55 <anarcat> i'm wondering if cumin can take into account hierarchical facts from puppet 5...
2019-06-05 18:43:02 <anarcat> for example here i see:
2019-06-05 18:43:03 <anarcat> # facter os.distro.codename
2019-06-05 18:43:03 <anarcat> buster
2019-06-05 18:43:11 <anarcat> but i can't use F:os.distro.codename=buster
2019-06-05 18:43:57 <volans> anarcat: hey, from the top of my head no, they are not (yet) supported because it's a different API endpoint on the puppetdb side
2019-06-05 18:44:18 <anarcat> right
2019-06-05 18:44:20 <anarcat> okay, thanks
2019-06-05 18:44:32 <anarcat> turns out F:lsbdistcodename=buster still works even though it's not listed in the facter output
2019-06-05 18:44:35 <volans> it should be the fact-paths one IIRC
2019-06-05 18:45:24 <volans> right, interesting one
2019-06-05 18:46:17 <volans> yeah I can confirm that still works, as we too have recently upgraded the clients
2019-06-05 18:47:51 <volans> I guess we'll end up adding support for it at some point, but it seems not super urgent
2019-06-05 18:50:08 <anarcat> right

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