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2018-07-04 14:03:49
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<Nudin_WMDE>
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Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 60 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @chiborg & @amir1 - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting
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2018-07-04 14:06:09
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<gentoouser|a>
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wow! thanks for the info
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2018-07-04 14:44:32
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<Nudin_WMDE>
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Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 15 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @chiborg & @amir1 - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting
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2018-07-04 15:00:06
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<chiborg>
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A warm welcome everyone to the Technical Advice IRC meeting. Amir1 and me will try to answer all your MediaWiki and other Wikimedia-project related questions.
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2018-07-04 15:00:25
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<gentoouser|a>
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hi!
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2018-07-04 15:03:28
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<Amir1>
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hey
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2018-07-04 15:04:52
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<gentoouser|a>
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I have a question about Mediawiki,in the future it would be possible to write in real time on a wiki page?
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2018-07-04 15:05:36
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<Amir1>
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gentoouser|a: there's no plan for it AFAIK but there's the option of collaborative editing being developed
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2018-07-04 15:07:40
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<chiborg>
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gentoouser|a There is also a MedaiWiki extension, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TogetherJS However, it seems to be abandoned, it has not received updates sicne 2014.
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2018-07-04 15:09:55
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<Niridya>
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This seems be very interessant. Is it possible to activate it, for example to work on a page (portail or meta) with another wikipedian ?
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2018-07-04 15:10:54
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<chiborg>
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Niridya Extensions need to be installed Wiki-wide. To try it out, you'd have to have local medaiwiki ronning.
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2018-07-04 15:11:28
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<Niridya>
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No Wikipedia use this tool ?
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2018-07-04 15:12:00
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<chiborg>
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Niridya apparently not.
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2018-07-04 15:12:08
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<Niridya>
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Thanks !
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2018-07-04 15:13:02
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<Niridya>
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Does the HTML to wikitext development for StructuredDiscussion advance ?
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2018-07-04 15:14:48
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<chiborg>
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Niridya I'm not sure what you mean. Structured Discussion is availabale as a beta feature on some wikis, for a complete list see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Structured_Discussions/Rollout
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2018-07-04 15:15:23
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<Niridya>
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No, I was talking about https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T174374 this task advance
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2018-07-04 15:16:13
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<gentoouser|a>
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What is the future of Mediawiki after the EU copyright law?
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2018-07-04 15:17:09
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<gentoouser|a>
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Thanks for the answer
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2018-07-04 15:17:31
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<chiborg>
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Niridya I'm sorry, I'm not involved in the development. That is done at the WMF, I know mostly about the developments at WMDE.
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2018-07-04 15:17:33
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<Amir1>
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gentoouser|a: I found this
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2018-07-04 15:17:33
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<Amir1>
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https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Hackathon_2018_showcase_-_Import_an_article_into_CollabPad_-01.jpg
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2018-07-04 15:17:40
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<Amir1>
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It's called collab pad
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2018-07-04 15:18:29
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<Niridya>
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chiborg thanks. You are a Deutsche Wikipedian ?
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2018-07-04 15:20:21
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<chiborg>
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gentoouser|a In the worst case scenario, Wikipedia will lose almost all reputable news sources because we are no longer allowed to link to them. "Citation needed" will be the default on all pages. Also, courts will decide in a long and costly process if wikimedia commons must install/license a filtering software.
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2018-07-04 15:20:53
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<Amir1>
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https://youtu.be/Y9lvXVJCiyc?t=16m39s
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2018-07-04 15:21:05
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<Amir1>
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gentoouser|a: ^ this shows how collab pad works
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2018-07-04 15:21:17
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<gentoouser|a>
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that's amazing
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2018-07-04 15:22:23
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<Amir1>
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Niridya: wrt https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T174374 you probably can ask RoanKattouw about it
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2018-07-04 15:23:24
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<chiborg>
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gentoouser|a and in an even worse scenario, after the filtering software is put in place, all authoritarian governments will make all kinds of requests to not only filter copyright violations but also instances of what they deem "hate speech" or "libel" (i.e. every piece of information they don't like).
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2018-07-04 15:24:48
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<Niridya>
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Amir1 thank you !
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2018-07-04 15:25:00
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<gentoouser|a>
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thank you chiborg
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2018-07-04 15:27:36
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<chiborg>
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gentoouser|a still, I remain hopeful that the new law will not pass and if it does, that it will not be enforced very well. But that's all personal opinion, for better answers and explanations, you'd need to google for what the WMD and WMDE leadership has to say about it. "eu copyright law" + wikipedia/katherine maher/jimmi wales/abraham taherivand should bring some interesting results.
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2018-07-04 15:28:11
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<chiborg>
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Niridya While I'm not an active community member/editor, I am an active developer at WMDE.
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2018-07-04 15:28:18
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<Amir1>
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yup, this is a blog post by head of WMF legal: https://blog.wikimedia.org/2018/06/29/eu-copyright-proposal-will-hurt-web-wikipedia/
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2018-07-04 15:28:43
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<Niridya>
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chiborg Okey, good !
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2018-07-04 15:29:06
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<Hauskatze>
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«The
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2018-07-04 15:29:07
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<Hauskatze>
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definition of online content sharing service providers under this Directive
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2018-07-04 15:29:07
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<Hauskatze>
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does not cover service providers that act in a noncommercial purpose
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2018-07-04 15:29:07
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<Hauskatze>
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capacity such as online encyclopaedia».
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2018-07-04 15:29:30
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<gentoouser|a>
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I have another question: Phabricator is the best platform for suggestions or ideas?
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2018-07-04 15:30:22
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<Amir1>
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gentoouser|a: it really depends on the idea
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2018-07-04 15:30:52
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<Amir1>
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if it's too technical, like "we should migrate to MongoDB as our storage backend" that would fall under TechCom radar
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2018-07-04 15:31:02
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<Amir1>
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you need to make a phabricator ticket and start an RFC
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2018-07-04 15:31:20
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<Amir1>
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https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T113034
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2018-07-04 15:31:23
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<Amir1>
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this is one example
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2018-07-04 15:32:05
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<Amir1>
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if it's not that technical, you can start a discussion at wikitech-l or wikimedia-l and polish it until it becomes technical enough
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2018-07-04 15:32:26
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<Amir1>
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if it's project-specific suggestion WP:VP of each project is the best place
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2018-07-04 15:32:33
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<leszek_wmde>
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Amir1: as you brought it on yourself: Is there already RFC about switching storage backend to MongoDB or something similar?
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2018-07-04 15:32:52
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<Amir1>
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like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(idea_lab)
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2018-07-04 15:32:53
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<chiborg>
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Hauskatze That's the point where the courts come in, because some trigger-happy lawyers might debate the non-commercialness of wikipedia or that wikimedia commons or other wikimedia projects is an encyclopedia.
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2018-07-04 15:33:02
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<Amir1>
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leszek_wmde: not (yet)
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2018-07-04 15:33:07
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<leszek_wmde>
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Amir1: shame
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2018-07-04 15:33:17
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<Hauskatze>
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chiborg: yeah, more work for us :|
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2018-07-04 15:36:43
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<Hauskatze>
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Article 2 of the proposal, however is very clear when they say: noncommercial online encyclopaedias and non-for-profit online educational repositories, but hey-ho; lets protest anyway.
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2018-07-04 16:00:02
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<chicocvenancio>
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Hauskatze: what is the exact text you are looking at?
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2018-07-04 16:01:03
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<chiborg>
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And that's the end of the Technical Advice meeting. Thanks to everyone who participated and/or lurked!
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2018-07-04 16:01:18
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<gentoouser|a>
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Thanks chiborg
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2018-07-04 16:01:25
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<gentoouser|a>
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Thanks Amir1
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2018-07-04 16:01:27
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<Hauskatze>
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chicocvenancio: the proposal as enacted and sent to the EU Parl.
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2018-07-04 16:01:55
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<Amir1>
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:(
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2018-07-04 16:01:57
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<chicocvenancio>
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From what I see here https://juliareda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/copyright-juri.pdf article 2 only makes exceptions to research institutions ( we explicitly decided not to allow)
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2018-07-04 16:01:59
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<Amir1>
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* :)
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2018-07-04 16:02:37
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<Amir1>
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RTL keyboards have swapped ")" and "("
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2018-07-04 16:02:49
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<chicocvenancio>
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Hauskatze: is that different than the report I linked?
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2018-07-04 16:02:59
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<Hauskatze>
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notwithstanding, searching stuff is suboptimal. For example the metings of tomorrow do not list any voting on copyright chicocvenancio -- http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/es/agenda/weekly-agenda/2018-27#agenda-day20180705
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2018-07-04 16:03:45
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<Hauskatze>
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I hate when they don't make searching easier.
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2018-07-04 16:14:37
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<chicocvenancio>
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Hauskatze: are you saying that the proposal will not be voted on the 5th?
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2018-07-04 16:15:17
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<Hauskatze>
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chicocvenancio: at least the EuroParl site does not list it or I am not smart enough to find it.
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2018-07-04 16:15:28
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<Hauskatze>
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probably the last
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2018-07-04 16:17:58
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<Hauskatze>
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chicocvenancio: agenda for the 5th July: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=AGENDA&reference=20180705&secondRef=SIT&language=EN#I-114
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2018-07-04 16:18:44
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<Hauskatze>
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aha, found it
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2018-07-04 16:18:47
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<Hauskatze>
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this time
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2018-07-04 16:20:38
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<chicocvenancio>
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Seems to have a similar text for article 2
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2018-07-04 16:21:38
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<chicocvenancio>
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One that would probably not include Wikimedia in an exception, and at least result in litigation over if it includes
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2018-07-04 16:23:32
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<Hauskatze>
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chicocvenancio: it is an amendment proposed by the Council http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=REPORT&mode=XML&reference=A8-2018-0245&language=EN
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2018-07-04 16:24:16
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<Hauskatze>
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amendment 61
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2018-07-04 16:24:48
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<Hauskatze>
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it has to be voted ofc
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2018-07-04 17:04:08
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<wargo>
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I think this is against Wikipedia and Wikimedia mission: https://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=prev&oldid=53859242&safemode=1 At least there should be "assign" instead "replace".
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2018-07-04 17:09:39
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<DanielK_WMDE>
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wargo: blackouts have happened before, and if there is sufficient commuity support, i suppose it would be ok. the technical details should be checked with wmf staff, though
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2018-07-04 17:10:12
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<DanielK_WMDE>
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i don't see an immediate performance or privacy concern here. But this is of course extremely disruptive.
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2018-07-04 17:10:26
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<DanielK_WMDE>
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I'd suggest to at least limit this to the main namespace, and keep other namespaces accessible
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2018-07-04 17:12:35
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<chicocvenancio>
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wargo: it's meant to blackout the site, how is allowing the back button a better solution?
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2018-07-04 17:14:22
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<wargo>
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It makes difficult navigating(!) this site for non-API users.
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2018-07-04 17:27:58
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<DanielK_WMDE>
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wargo: it effectively makes it impossible to navigate the site. that's the intention, i believe
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2018-07-04 17:31:50
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<AntiComposite>
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It is certainly effective.
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2018-07-04 17:33:08
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<chicocvenancio>
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You can disable Javascript to get arround it, but the point is to blackout the site in protest
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2018-07-04 18:03:14
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<Seddon>
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chicocvenancio: the italians have gone a step further and blacked out non-js access to the site as well
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2018-07-04 18:33:05
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<chicocvenancio>
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goes to check itwiki
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2018-07-04 18:35:36
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<chicocvenancio>
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Seddon: interesting
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