|
2018-09-12 13:05:40
|
<Stryn>
|
not very useful maintenance banner
|
|
2018-09-12 13:06:04
|
<Stryn>
|
(linking to Meta:Example)
|
|
2018-09-12 13:06:12
|
<Reedy>
|
?
|
|
2018-09-12 13:06:20
|
<Reedy>
|
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Tech/Server_switch_2018
|
|
2018-09-12 13:06:35
|
<Stryn>
|
When I click the banner it goes to Meta:Example
|
|
2018-09-12 13:06:49
|
<Stryn>
|
oh now it works
|
|
2018-09-12 13:06:55
|
<Reedy>
|
yay computers
|
|
2018-09-12 13:07:13
|
<Stryn>
|
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?diff=18375154&oldid=18374580&rcid=12410435
|
|
2018-09-12 14:00:06
|
<wm-bot>
|
Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 60 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @chiborg & @amir1 - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting
|
|
2018-09-12 14:36:25
|
<DaBPunkt>
|
guys? you promised us 1 hour of recreation – where it is? ;)
|
|
2018-09-12 14:37:03
|
<Krenair>
|
I don't think it's expected to be read-only mode for the entire hour.
|
|
2018-09-12 14:37:05
|
<apergos>
|
we have started the data center switchover procedure
|
|
2018-09-12 14:37:21
|
<apergos>
|
I will give a heads up in this channel when we are about to set read-only (not quite yet)
|
|
2018-09-12 14:37:21
|
<mark>
|
it's in #wikimedia-operations :)
|
|
2018-09-12 14:37:50
|
<DaBPunkt>
|
ok :)
|
|
2018-09-12 14:37:55
|
<apergos>
|
if you would like to follow along, most of the activity is taking place in #wikimedia-operations, but please lurk only, no chatter
|
|
2018-09-12 14:37:59
|
<Krenair>
|
There are steps before going read-only and there are steps after going back to read-write
|
|
2018-09-12 14:41:26
|
<apergos>
|
read-only mode shortly
|
|
2018-09-12 14:45:53
|
<Krenair>
|
read-only mode
|
|
2018-09-12 14:45:58
|
<apergos>
|
we should now be read-only, folks
|
|
2018-09-12 14:46:02
|
<apergos>
|
enjoy your editing break
|
|
2018-09-12 14:46:08
|
<DaBPunkt>
|
:)
|
|
2018-09-12 14:46:24
|
<DaBPunkt>
|
good luck!
|
|
2018-09-12 14:47:10
|
<apergos>
|
:-)
|
|
2018-09-12 14:49:06
|
<Krenair>
|
I guess that's one thing for having wikitech be separate - SAL still works when the other wikis are read-only
|
|
2018-09-12 14:50:05
|
<wm-bot>
|
Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 10 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @chiborg & @amir1 - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting
|
|
2018-09-12 14:52:21
|
<apergos>
|
read-only period is over
|
|
2018-09-12 14:52:27
|
<apergos>
|
back to editing!
|
|
2018-09-12 14:52:42
|
<DaBPunkt>
|
thanks
|
|
2018-09-12 15:00:55
|
<Amir1>
|
o/
|
|
2018-09-12 15:01:11
|
<Amir1>
|
Welcome to the technical advice IRC meeting
|
|
2018-09-12 15:02:44
|
<Nemo_bis>
|
I propose a minute of mourning for copyright ;)
|
|
2018-09-12 15:03:16
|
<Amir1>
|
lol. Indeed
|
|
2018-09-12 15:03:24
|
<Der_Keks>
|
Did everything work till now with the server change?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:04:26
|
<Amir1>
|
Der_Keks: Yes, there was a short down time before the datacenter switchover due to varnish misbehaving
|
|
2018-09-12 15:04:30
|
<Amir1>
|
but that was unrelated
|
|
2018-09-12 15:04:31
|
<d3r1ck>
|
o/
|
|
2018-09-12 15:05:00
|
<Amir1>
|
d3r1ck: Hey
|
|
2018-09-12 15:05:14
|
<d3r1ck>
|
Amir1: Hey, seems you've been really busy lately :)
|
|
2018-09-12 15:05:26
|
<d3r1ck>
|
Nemo_bis: :(
|
|
2018-09-12 15:06:05
|
<Amir1>
|
Yeah :(
|
|
2018-09-12 15:06:08
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Okay so
|
|
2018-09-12 15:06:20
|
<Krenair>
|
ok
|
|
2018-09-12 15:06:21
|
<_joe_>
|
Nemo_bis: indeed :(
|
|
2018-09-12 15:06:23
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
A Datacenter move
|
|
2018-09-12 15:06:26
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Thanks
|
|
2018-09-12 15:06:30
|
<apergos>
|
this was a planned switchover
|
|
2018-09-12 15:06:39
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
I also wanted to ask if something technical was feasible?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:06:41
|
<apergos>
|
we'll leave traffic in the new datacenter for a few weeks
|
|
2018-09-12 15:06:45
|
<apergos>
|
then switch back
|
|
2018-09-12 15:07:20
|
<apergos>
|
the technical advice meeting is in here happening right now, so maybe you can ask that question
|
|
2018-09-12 15:07:29
|
<apergos>
|
I think Amir1 is facilitating
|
|
2018-09-12 15:07:47
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Oh sorry to intrude
|
|
2018-09-12 15:07:54
|
<apergos>
|
no, you're welcome here
|
|
2018-09-12 15:08:08
|
<Amir1>
|
Yes, How can I help?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:08:31
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
My question would be whether it's possible to disable certain functionality in Mediawiki for a very wide range of IP's?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:09:00
|
<Amir1>
|
ShakespeareFan00: That really depends on what functionalities AFAIK
|
|
2018-09-12 15:09:06
|
<Reedy>
|
Block the range
|
|
2018-09-12 15:09:11
|
<Reedy>
|
That stops a lot of funcationality
|
|
2018-09-12 15:09:27
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Such as for example preventing uploads from an entire renage of schools
|
|
2018-09-12 15:09:32
|
<apergos>
|
side-eyes Reedy
|
|
2018-09-12 15:09:34
|
<Amir1>
|
True, also ratelimit but it's a global thing
|
|
2018-09-12 15:09:39
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
due to problematic uploads for example?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:09:50
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
(Or in extermis an entire geogrpahical region)
|
|
2018-09-12 15:10:07
|
<Amir1>
|
ShakespeareFan00: if you're hosting your own wiki, maybe you can use abuse filter
|
|
2018-09-12 15:10:19
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
I'm not
|
|
2018-09-12 15:10:29
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
This was to do with English Wikipedia
|
|
2018-09-12 15:10:33
|
<Amir1>
|
I don't know if we expose IP range to abuse filter for third party installation
|
|
2018-09-12 15:10:52
|
<Amir1>
|
ShakespeareFan00: hmm, What you're saying will be possible soon
|
|
2018-09-12 15:10:53
|
<DaBPunkt>
|
ShakespeareFan00: can’t abuse-filter help?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:11:05
|
<Amir1>
|
due to implementation of partial blocks
|
|
2018-09-12 15:11:08
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Amir1: Also IP range-blocks wouldn't affected registered accounts?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:11:15
|
<Krenair>
|
You could almost certainly write such code into the config
|
|
2018-09-12 15:11:35
|
<Krenair>
|
use some hook relating to uploads, check IP range, stop stuff working if bad
|
|
2018-09-12 15:11:38
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Currently I think on English Wikipedia you need an account to upload anyway
|
|
2018-09-12 15:11:43
|
<Amir1>
|
To second what Krenair said, this has been done in WMF before in severe cases
|
|
2018-09-12 15:11:54
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Thanks
|
|
2018-09-12 15:12:11
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
What I'm about to say may be controversial
|
|
2018-09-12 15:12:39
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Generally on Wikipedia and WMF projects, blocking or function disabling is done reactively
|
|
2018-09-12 15:12:41
|
<Amir1>
|
ShakespeareFan00: yes, also you can limit upload to autoconfirmed users or define a new user group that automatically is added
|
|
2018-09-12 15:13:01
|
<Amir1>
|
for example some wikis gives out the uploader right after you have done N edits
|
|
2018-09-12 15:13:05
|
<Amir1>
|
(autoamtically)
|
|
2018-09-12 15:13:08
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
As some people may heard the EU Parliment voted to approve certain copyright changes.
|
|
2018-09-12 15:13:40
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
I was wondering therefore from a technical perspective if it's possible to bar the whole of the EU region from uploading or adding external links
|
|
2018-09-12 15:14:00
|
<Krenair>
|
no people will just use a US IP
|
|
2018-09-12 15:14:19
|
<Amir1>
|
technically it's possible but community-wise, I'm not so sure of that
|
|
2018-09-12 15:14:24
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Or as with the "Chinese Firewall" a VPN
|
|
2018-09-12 15:14:47
|
<chiborg>
|
ShakespeareFan00 And I fear it's not about where the user sits who uploads the content but more about the platform. You'd have to block wikipedia in the eu.
|
|
2018-09-12 15:14:53
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
I'm not saying it's sound on policy grounds
|
|
2018-09-12 15:15:03
|
<Krenair>
|
... yes a VPN can give you an IP in a different country
|
|
2018-09-12 15:15:24
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
chiborg: Which is the crux of the issue
|
|
2018-09-12 15:15:45
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
WMF being blocked in the whole of the EU, would be catastrophic PR
|
|
2018-09-12 15:15:55
|
<Krenair>
|
look
|
|
2018-09-12 15:15:59
|
<Reedy>
|
I think we're getting ahead of ourselves
|
|
2018-09-12 15:16:00
|
<Krenair>
|
this is not a technical decision
|
|
2018-09-12 15:16:11
|
<andre__>
|
ShakespeareFan00: it's not "WMF".
|
|
2018-09-12 15:16:35
|
<Amir1>
|
Yes, let's talk about technical issues
|
|
2018-09-12 15:16:58
|
<apergos>
|
yep, this is a 'technical advice meeting' :-)
|
|
2018-09-12 15:17:02
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Krenair: Okay... my next technical question... would be whether it's feasible to have geo-aware templates?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:17:21
|
<Amir1>
|
ShakespeareFan00: technically it's almost impossible
|
|
2018-09-12 15:17:23
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
That display different content based on a percived location
|
|
2018-09-12 15:17:28
|
<Reedy>
|
woo, caching
|
|
2018-09-12 15:17:31
|
<Amir1>
|
due to how our caching works
|
|
2018-09-12 15:17:33
|
<Krenair>
|
that would be a varnish caching problem
|
|
2018-09-12 15:17:36
|
<Reedy>
|
plus lol geoip
|
|
2018-09-12 15:17:42
|
<Krenair>
|
^
|
|
2018-09-12 15:17:46
|
<Amir1>
|
ParserCache, Varnish and everythin
|
|
2018-09-12 15:18:04
|
<Krenair>
|
yeah that too
|
|
2018-09-12 15:18:15
|
<mutante>
|
that being said, we do have banners based on location
|
|
2018-09-12 15:18:23
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
My intended use-case for geo-aware templates would be the edit-notice for BLP articles as the UK has different libel laws to the US
|
|
2018-09-12 15:18:29
|
<Krenair>
|
yeah but I think those work client-side?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:18:48
|
<chiborg>
|
Banners are loaded client-side after the main page content has loaded.
|
|
2018-09-12 15:18:53
|
<Amir1>
|
ShakespeareFan00: you can "replace" it later based on javascript
|
|
2018-09-12 15:19:02
|
<Amir1>
|
after the page is loaded
|
|
2018-09-12 15:19:10
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Okay so it's a template coding issue
|
|
2018-09-12 15:19:17
|
<Amir1>
|
that's how banners work. Is it correct chiborg ?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:19:36
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Thanks for having the patience to respond
|
|
2018-09-12 15:19:50
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
In the US the warning would have one wording...
|
|
2018-09-12 15:19:51
|
<chiborg>
|
Yes, banners can have JavaScript in them that could theoretically replace any content on the wiki page.
|
|
2018-09-12 15:19:58
|
<DaBPunkt>
|
May I ask if the db-switch is completly over?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:20:03
|
<Amir1>
|
there wasn't any need for patience. That's why we are here
|
|
2018-09-12 15:20:09
|
<[1997kB]>
|
Is it really read-only? I can see edits in recent changes.
|
|
2018-09-12 15:20:16
|
<Krenair>
|
DaBPunkt, well they're talking about getting rid of the banner
|
|
2018-09-12 15:20:25
|
<Krenair>
|
[1997kB], it was for a few minutes, not anymore
|
|
2018-09-12 15:20:26
|
<Amir1>
|
DaBPunkt: It's moved to the new datacenter now and it will switch back next month
|
|
2018-09-12 15:20:29
|
<DaBPunkt>
|
[1997kB]: the read-only-phase is over
|
|
2018-09-12 15:20:34
|
<DaBPunkt>
|
Amir1: ok.
|
|
2018-09-12 15:20:44
|
<Amir1>
|
so everything is stable like we are in a plane in sky, not landing yet
|
|
2018-09-12 15:20:47
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
In the UK the edit-notice for a BLP, would have an additional wording, pointing out that the UK has strong libel laws and thus if you put in lies you could get sued...
|
|
2018-09-12 15:20:52
|
<[1997kB]>
|
ah ok..
|
|
2018-09-12 15:20:55
|
<Amir1>
|
[1997kB]: it's not, anymore
|
|
2018-09-12 15:21:13
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
If geo-aware edit-notices aren't feasible... I'll shut up
|
|
2018-09-12 15:21:14
|
<tgr>
|
enwiki has geoaware sitenotices via JS, adapting that to templates should not be hard
|
|
2018-09-12 15:21:34
|
<Amir1>
|
ShakespeareFan00: you can add it via Mediawiki:Common.js
|
|
2018-09-12 15:21:54
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
tgr: And a simmilar approach could be applied to other edit-notices and UI components?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:21:55
|
<Amir1>
|
it'll be added after the page is loaded and it's more of a hack but it works
|
|
2018-09-12 15:22:06
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Like Special:Upload
|
|
2018-09-12 15:22:13
|
<Amir1>
|
Yes
|
|
2018-09-12 15:22:26
|
<tgr>
|
in general though edit warnings about malicious intent scare away well-intentioned contributors and are unlikely to convince ill-intentioned ones
|
|
2018-09-12 15:22:42
|
<tgr>
|
at best they will try harder to hide their tracks
|
|
2018-09-12 15:22:45
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Okay... It's technically feasible, so I'll take this to Village Pump as it's a project issue not a global one?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:22:59
|
<Reedy>
|
For the EU stuff?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:23:02
|
<Reedy>
|
Or just blocking schools?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:23:38
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Reedy: As a region wide block wouldn't necssarily pass WP:POINT
|
|
2018-09-12 15:24:28
|
<apergos>
|
reminder, tech questions pelase
|
|
2018-09-12 15:24:42
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
Reedy: Yes this was about putting a warning on upload if an account was uplaoding from an IP subject to a range block
|
|
2018-09-12 15:24:42
|
<apergos>
|
this meeting is only one hour
|
|
2018-09-12 15:24:57
|
<tgr>
|
note that EU laws have not changed
|
|
2018-09-12 15:25:21
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
I'll move this discussion elsewhere as the technical aspects were answered.
|
|
2018-09-12 15:25:23
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
out
|
|
2018-09-12 15:25:41
|
<Amir1>
|
#wikpedia-en would be a good venue
|
|
2018-09-12 15:25:53
|
<tgr>
|
the Parliament voted on what suggestion tosubmit to the Council as the next step of the copyright reform
|
|
2018-09-12 15:26:28
|
<tgr>
|
it's a long process that's nowhere near the end yet, any blocking or interface change would be terribly premature even if it is warranted otherwise
|
|
2018-09-12 15:27:17
|
<legoktm>
|
tgr: so what's the next steps for the bill? I'm not familiar with EU lawmaking
|
|
2018-09-12 15:29:29
|
<ShakespeareFan00>
|
legoktm: I was advise to keep this channel on technical issues... there are other channels for 'policy' related disscussions
|
|
2018-09-12 15:29:38
|
<Amir1>
|
"Sometimes you lose an argument. Sometimes you lose an election. The path that this country has taken has never been a straight line. We zig and zag, and sometimes we move in ways that some people think is forward and others think is moving back. And that's okay. " I like this quote by Obama. It seems fitting here
|
|
2018-09-12 15:30:11
|
<Amir1>
|
True
|
|
2018-09-12 15:30:26
|
<Amir1>
|
Any technical questions so far?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:30:32
|
<chiborg>
|
legoktm : See this thread for opinion and what the next steps are: https://twitter.com/doctorow/status/1039845484431519744
|
|
2018-09-12 15:30:49
|
<chiborg>
|
Any technical questions:
|
|
2018-09-12 15:30:52
|
<chiborg>
|
?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:31:05
|
<tgr>
|
legoktm: the parliament and the council negotiate changes, then there will be a final vote on the end result, at which point the new law is either accepted or discarded entirely
|
|
2018-09-12 15:31:28
|
<tgr>
|
Julia Reda's site is always a great resource on EU copyright stuff: https://juliareda.eu/2018/09/ep-endorses-upload-filters/
|
|
2018-09-12 15:31:59
|
<paravoid>
|
that's my understanding as well, but for extra clarity s/law/directive/
|
|
2018-09-12 15:32:06
|
<[1997kB]>
|
When labs will support IPv6?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:32:31
|
<paravoid>
|
sorry, just saw the "please keep it technical" comment, my apologies
|
|
2018-09-12 15:33:02
|
<legoktm>
|
Sorry for the distraction, and thanks for the links :)
|
|
2018-09-12 15:33:05
|
<Amir1>
|
[1997kB]: hmm, what do you mean by IPv6 support exactly?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:33:33
|
<Amir1>
|
isn't it possible to login to labs via an IPv6 connection?
|
|
2018-09-12 15:34:08
|
<Krenair>
|
Amir1, no, there's no IPv6 networking in labs right now
|
|
2018-09-12 15:34:27
|
<[1997kB]>
|
Amir1: like in ACC we can't see requester's IPv6, it shows IPv6, and due which we can't see blocks too..
|
|
2018-09-12 15:34:38
|
<Krenair>
|
you mean it shows IPv4
|
|
2018-09-12 15:34:49
|
<[1997kB]>
|
yeah, sorry..
|
|
2018-09-12 15:34:54
|
<Krenair>
|
possibly after the neutron migration they can add IPv6 support
|
|
2018-09-12 15:35:10
|
<Krenair>
|
that's being worked on
|
|
2018-09-12 15:35:23
|
<apergos>
|
here's a mediawiki-vagrant question (is this a good time for it?): I've gotten a timeout from composer in trying to apply the wikidata role, is this sort of thing common and is there a known/easy workaround? this happens when trying to provision the role
|
|
2018-09-12 15:35:24
|
<Krenair>
|
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T167293
|
|
2018-09-12 15:35:32
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<Krenair>
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and you want https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T37947
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2018-09-12 15:36:15
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<legoktm>
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apergos: https://getcomposer.org/doc/03-cli.md#composer-process-timeout
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2018-09-12 15:36:32
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<apergos>
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yeah that's modifying the role
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2018-09-12 15:36:47
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<apergos>
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but it seems that it times out (or it did yesterday) in trying to get some psy something from github
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2018-09-12 15:37:00
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<Amir1>
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that ticket looks ancient
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2018-09-12 15:37:03
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<apergos>
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it's a tiny repo
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2018-09-12 15:37:05
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<legoktm>
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Maybe because github was down yesterday?
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2018-09-12 15:37:24
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<apergos>
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hm. maybe, I have not tried again today, just a few times yesterday with the same result
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2018-09-12 15:37:36
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<legoktm>
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https://status.github.com/messages
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2018-09-12 15:37:49
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<Krenair>
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it is a five digit ticket
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2018-09-12 15:38:30
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<Krenair>
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and yeah, the request has been open since pretty much when labs was opened for public use AFAIK
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2018-09-12 15:38:33
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<Amir1>
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[1997kB]: To recap, It would be great if you follow https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T37947 and ping people
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2018-09-12 15:38:43
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<apergos>
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intersting, thanks
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2018-09-12 15:39:42
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<legoktm>
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That would be my guess mostly, it really shouldn't hit the timeout in normal operation IMO
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2018-09-12 15:40:45
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<apergos>
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certainly not for the small amount of stuff in that repo
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2018-09-12 15:49:12
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<[1997kB]>
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ok, I'll.. thanks. Thought mentioning it here would speed up little bit.
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2018-09-12 15:50:49
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<Amir1>
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Unfortunately it's hard offer help on this matter as it's big and way outside of my knowledge
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2018-09-12 15:51:02
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<Amir1>
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*it's hard for me to
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2018-09-12 16:00:11
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<chiborg>
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And that's the end of the Technical Advice Meeting. Thank yo all for your questions and engagement!
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2018-09-12 16:01:47
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<apergos>
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thanks for hosting, that was very convenient
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2018-09-12 16:02:29
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<Amir1>
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See you next week o/
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2018-09-12 17:29:49
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<legoktm>
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andre__: how many GCI tasks do we need ahead of time?
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2018-09-12 18:01:44
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<andre__>
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legoktm: I don't know yet - last year it was 75 at the start
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2018-09-12 18:01:51
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<andre__>
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the more, the better :-/
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2018-09-12 18:02:21
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<legoktm>
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alright, I'll find some more :)
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2018-09-12 18:02:50
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<andre__>
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legoktm: thanks so much!!
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2018-09-12 20:02:29
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<legoktm>
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"Risk Rating N/A" - that's new in Phabricator
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2018-09-12 20:05:07
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<paladox>
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legoktm https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T204138
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2018-09-12 20:08:16
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<legoktm>
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paladox: thanks, commented there
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2018-09-12 20:08:23
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<paladox>
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your welcome :
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2018-09-12 20:08:24
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<paladox>
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:)
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