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2017-11-29 09:29:04 <yannf> hi, Who would know about indexation of Wikimedia user pages, and user talk pages?
2017-11-29 09:29:15 <yannf> Someone has asked me about this, and I don't know what to say
2017-11-29 09:29:25 <yannf> https://fr.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Discussion_utilisateur:Nomen_ad_hoc&diff=7030530&oldid=6132072
2017-11-29 09:29:35 <yannf> it seems the __NOINDEX__ tag has no effect
2017-11-29 09:29:46 <yannf> where should I ask?
2017-11-29 09:29:58 <yannf> or redirect this user to?
2017-11-29 09:31:54 <legoktm> (answered in #-operations)
2017-11-29 12:34:25 <b_jonas> yannf: in https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Nomen_ad_hoc it does have effect. maybe in wikisource.org where the copied userpage is shown it doesn't.
2017-11-29 12:34:52 <b_jonas> wait wait
2017-11-29 12:35:01 <b_jonas> you linked to the user talk page. I'm looking at the user page
2017-11-29 12:35:35 <b_jonas> yannf: it does have effect. in https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Discussion_utilisateur:Nomen_ad_hoc there's a noindex meta tag.
2017-11-29 12:36:32 <b_jonas> and the user page https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Utilisateur:Nomen_ad_hoc has a meta canonical tag that points to meta.wikimedia.org, which should also be enough
2017-11-29 12:37:03 <b_jonas> yannf: what's the problem then? the __NOINDEX__ tag does seem to have the effect I expect
2017-11-29 12:37:56 <b_jonas> yannf: although wait, it seems like maybe every user page already has noindex implicitly
2017-11-29 12:38:42 <b_jonas> very likely because user pages in wikimedia projects have laxer control, and even banned users are allowed to edit their own user talk page by default
2017-11-29 12:38:47 <b_jonas> makes sense to set them to noindex
2017-11-29 12:39:17 <b_jonas> yannf: so the __NOINDEX__ is probably already the default for that page
2017-11-29 13:09:42 <mbh> Is there any limitations to frequency of logging into Wikipedia? My bot is logging in every minute (don't ask why) and sometimes gets error "Check your login and password"
2017-11-29 13:10:11 <Reedy> Yes
2017-11-29 13:10:20 <andre__> mbh: Why does it have to *log in* every minute?
2017-11-29 13:10:33 <Reedy> Poorly coded/not keeping session cookies etc :P
2017-11-29 13:11:01 <mbh> it checks recentchanges and runs every minute from cron
2017-11-29 13:11:23 <mbh> yes, I will use cookies later
2017-11-29 13:12:00 <andre__> Hmm, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Etiquette does not mention that explicitly
2017-11-29 13:12:33 <andre__> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Login explains though
2017-11-29 13:13:48 <mbh> what are these limitations? How many times it can login in what period of time?
2017-11-29 13:14:22 <mbh> OK, I will rewrite it to more rare logging in
2017-11-29 14:27:43 <Esther> Hmmmmmm, successfully logging in every minute should be fine?
2017-11-29 14:27:54 <Esther> It's inefficient, but I don't think it's problematic.
2017-11-29 14:28:48 <Esther> Reedy: What limitation do you think there is?
2017-11-29 14:29:24 <Esther> If someone is using the same username and password and intermittently getting a "Check your login and password" error, that sounds like a bug to me.
2017-11-29 14:29:25 <Reedy> " * A helper class for throttling authentication attempts"
2017-11-29 14:29:34 <Reedy> Certainly potentially a bad error message, yes
2017-11-29 14:29:44 <Reedy> Even if successful, it's still an attempt
2017-11-29 14:29:58 <Esther> What's the limit?
2017-11-29 14:30:14 <Reedy> Not sure. It's buried somewhere in authmanager, I think
2017-11-29 14:30:28 <Esther> Hmm, yeah. I was gonna say, I feel like this must be a relatively new feature.
2017-11-29 14:30:43 <Esther> Or misfeature. There shouldn't be throttling on successful logins typically.
2017-11-29 14:30:48 <Esther> Once per minute is not that crazy.
2017-11-29 14:31:02 <Reedy> No... But pointless
2017-11-29 14:31:21 <Esther> I mean, it's pretty common with a quick script.
2017-11-29 14:31:22 <thedj> we have throttling on lots of actions, if those are succesful or not usually doens't have too much bearing on the throttling.
2017-11-29 14:31:31 <Esther> thedj: Of course it does.
2017-11-29 14:31:34 <thedj> usually.
2017-11-29 14:31:54 <Reedy> $this->throttleSettings = array_intersect_key( $params,
2017-11-29 14:31:54 <Reedy> [ 'accountCreationThrottle' => true, 'passwordAttemptThrottle' => true ] );
2017-11-29 14:31:58 <Esther> Depending on what the script is doing, mbh may not need to log in at all.
2017-11-29 14:32:12 <Reedy> " * Limit password attempts to X attempts per Y seconds per IP per account.
2017-11-29 14:32:12 <Reedy> "
2017-11-29 14:32:13 <Esther> But I've almost certainly done similar with dumb scripts and cron.
2017-11-29 14:32:20 <Reedy> [ 'count' => 5, 'seconds' => 300 ],
2017-11-29 14:32:23 <Reedy> [ 'count' => 150, 'seconds' => 60 * 60 * 48 ],
2017-11-29 14:32:35 <Reedy> Question here... Is whether successful count
2017-11-29 14:32:39 <Esther> 5 per 300?
2017-11-29 14:32:46 <Esther> Isn't that one per minute?
2017-11-29 14:32:46 <Reedy> One every 60 seconds
2017-11-29 14:32:48 <Esther> Yeah.
2017-11-29 14:33:00 <Reedy> Do we know the script isn't doing slightly more than 1 per minute? Probably not
2017-11-29 14:33:04 <thedj> so yeah, if you are not on 1/2minutes, you might easily trip that.
2017-11-29 14:33:10 <Esther> Silly.
2017-11-29 14:33:15 <Reedy> That's DefaultSettings
2017-11-29 14:33:21 <Reedy> I don't think we change it in WMF config
2017-11-29 14:33:29 <Esther> Most wikis don't have throttling support set up, but yeah.
2017-11-29 14:33:41 <Esther> It requires memcached still or something, doesn't it?
2017-11-29 14:33:54 <Reedy> Yeah
2017-11-29 14:34:26 <Esther> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Login says there should be an explicit Throttled error.
2017-11-29 14:34:35 <Esther> In the result field.
2017-11-29 14:35:32 <Esther> thedj: Or if someone is re-using the same account and is manually logging in.
2017-11-29 14:35:41 <Esther> That would explain the intermittent behavior.
2017-11-29 14:36:04 <thedj> yup
2017-11-29 14:37:15 <mbh> I changed login rate to "one in two minutes", this errors appears also
2017-11-29 14:37:36 <Esther> mbh: Are you capturing the whole response? Can you paste it somewhere?
2017-11-29 14:37:56 <Esther> mbh: Or can you paste the script you're running (without the password)?
2017-11-29 14:37:58 <mbh> this message creates by DotNetWikiBot framework
2017-11-29 14:38:32 <mbh> Unhandled Exception: DotNetWikiBot.WikiBotException: Login failed. Check your username and password. at DotNetWikiBot.Site.LogIn () [0x00287] in <23e3846f9c6342ecb0d00441b535fea5>:0 at DotNetWikiBot.Site.Initialize () [0x00531] in <23e3846f9c6342ecb0d00441b535fea5>:0 at DotNetWikiBot.Site..ctor (System.String address, System.String userName, System.String userPass, System.String userDomain) [0x00081] in <23e3846f9c634
2017-11-29 14:38:55 <Esther> Yeah, that's not the actual response from the Web server, tho.
2017-11-29 14:39:06 <Esther> I mean, part of it might be, but the actual response should be JSON, I believe.
2017-11-29 14:39:13 <Esther> Or some other serialized language.
2017-11-29 14:39:19 <thedj> yup
2017-11-29 14:41:37 <thedj> it this with action=login ?
2017-11-29 14:45:29 <mbh> instead of clientlogin? I think, it's just login, because of 1) this framework was not updated last 1,5 years; 2) I don't create bot password for bot
2017-11-29 14:46:01 <thedj> i wonder if maybe the xsrf/login token isn't being replagged over the cluster fast enough, so that it doesn't know the token yet when you do the actual login....
2017-11-29 14:47:36 <thedj> as a bot likely has almost no delay between those two requests, you might easily trigger such a bug in this setup.
2017-11-29 14:48:13 <thedj> again, without having the actual response from the server, it's hard to debug I think.
2017-11-29 14:51:57 <mbh> I think, I will rewrite bot to infinite working with inner sleeps instead of every minute starting from cron, so this problem will not matter
2017-11-29 14:52:04 <thedj> mbh: another reason might be that there is an encoding bug in the framework, which only triggers when certain characters are in the token...
2017-11-29 14:52:36 <thedj> then delay wouldn't matter, it's just 1 in every ... requests.
2017-11-29 14:53:11 <thedj> int tokenPos = respStr.IndexOf("token=\"");
2017-11-29 14:53:11 <thedj> if (tokenPos < 1)
2017-11-29 14:53:11 <thedj> throw new WikiBotException(
2017-11-29 14:53:12 <thedj> "\n\n" + Bot.Msg("Login failed
2017-11-29 14:53:58 <thedj> my god... that framework is... so bad...
2017-11-29 14:54:49 <mbh> what are the more correct ways to get every new edit from recentchanges? My bot reads ORES scores for every edit in ruwiki
2017-11-29 14:54:58 <thedj> it seems to be based originally on screenscraping, and then someone bolted api requests on top, without doing proper parsing...
2017-11-29 14:56:37 <thedj> mbh: use the api.
2017-11-29 14:56:44 <thedj> but don't use shitty frameworks :)
2017-11-29 14:57:18 <thedj> i'm not sure if there other dotnet frameworks wrapping the api...
2017-11-29 14:57:47 <thedj> but honestly, you might be better off writing your own .net interactions with the api.
2017-11-29 14:57:49 <Esther> You could use the IRC feed?
2017-11-29 14:58:03 <Esther> But that wouldn't include ORES scores automatically.
2017-11-29 14:58:10 <Esther> Does ORES have a feed of some kind?
2017-11-29 14:58:22 <Zppix> Esther: #wikimedia-ai
2017-11-29 14:58:28 <Zppix> Ask there
2017-11-29 14:58:29 <Esther> Hi Zppix.
2017-11-29 14:58:35 <Esther> I will not.
2017-11-29 14:59:19 <Zppix> ?
2017-11-29 15:01:30 <thedj> normally i'd say https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/EventStreams.. but i don't think that includes ores yet either.
2017-11-29 15:03:07 <Zppix> Hence is why i said ask in #wikimedia-ai
2017-11-29 15:03:50 <thedj> mbh: -> redirect wikimedia-ai
2017-11-29 15:05:16 <Esther> This channel is fine to discuss in.
2017-11-29 15:29:52 <Fluffernutter> Hm I am getting a lot of DB errors while trying to view various log pages on commons. Example I just got on Special:Log/INeverCry : [Wh7R7gpAMFgAAK80EDsAAAAR] 2017-11-29 15:28:42: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryTimeoutError"
2017-11-29 15:31:43 <andre__> Fluffernutter, on which wiki?
2017-11-29 15:31:47 <Nudin> Technical Advice IRC meeting starting in 30 minutes in channel #wikimedia-tech, hosts: @Amir1 & @Thiemo_WMDE - all questions welcome, more infos: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting
2017-11-29 15:31:58 <Fluffernutter> andre__: On Commons
2017-11-29 15:34:29 <andre__> Fluffernutter, that one is: "Error: 2062 Read timeout is reached (10.64.0.164:3314)"
2017-11-29 15:34:31 <andre__> likely https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T169429
2017-11-29 15:35:18 <andre__> but feel free to file a new task on Phab with tag #Wikimedia-log-errors . Cannot hurt IMHO
2017-11-29 15:35:20 <Fluffernutter> huh, I didn't realize ORES was involved in stuff like log viewing. Much technological, very advance!
2017-11-29 15:35:31 <andre__> might not be, according to later comments in that very task
2017-11-29 15:36:29 <Fluffernutter> Well, the good news is my third refresh got the page to load, yay!
2017-11-29 15:36:44 <Fluffernutter> (now if only I could remember why I was loading it in the first place...)
2017-11-29 15:39:43 <andre__> Welcome to my life :D
2017-11-29 15:40:38 <Zppix> Lol
2017-11-29 15:41:51 <thedj> watchlists and recent changes infrastructure really needs some major architectional rework next year i think :/
2017-11-29 16:01:54 <Thiemo_WMDE> Welcome to the Technical Advice IRC Meeting! Your hosts for the next 60 minutes are Thiemo_WMDE and Amir1. I see no questions at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Technical_Advice_IRC_Meeting so feel free to bring up any tech topic you like.
2017-11-29 16:04:02 <YairRand> so, a wiktionary gadget I built for uploading audio recordings started getting "Upload failed: This file did not pass file verification." errors from commons a few months ago. any tips on figuring out where that comes from, or what that is?
2017-11-29 16:04:06 <Thiemo_WMDE> As usual we are not going to present anything upfront. ;-) This hour is yours.
2017-11-29 16:04:36 <Thiemo_WMDE> YairRand: Do you have a link or the name of that gadget?
2017-11-29 16:04:48 <MatmaRex> if no one has any real questions, i'd like to ask if WMDE folks liked my unsolicited review of AdvancedSearch yesterday ;) (it's pretty cool by the way)
2017-11-29 16:05:01 <YairRand> Thiemo_WMDE: wikt:User:Yair_rand/AddAudio.js
2017-11-29 16:05:16 <MatmaRex> YairRand: it would help to know the exact response from the upload API; you might be running into the AbuseFilters for cross-wiki uploads that Commons has set up recently
2017-11-29 16:06:13 <YairRand> "code":"stashfailed","info":"This file did not pass file verification."
2017-11-29 16:07:26 <Amir1> MatmaRex: We are not in the TCB team (people who did the advanced search) but I can ask them, they are literally in the next room
2017-11-29 16:08:16 <Thiemo_WMDE> YairRand: I'm just digging into the MediaWiki code a bit. A failed "file verification" looks like something that happens when an SVG contains script code, or when a file is only partially uploaded, or rejected for an other (security related) reason.
2017-11-29 16:09:00 <Thiemo_WMDE> … or a mismatch between MIME type and file extension.
2017-11-29 16:10:41 <YairRand> so, the file plays fine on the browser directly, and the upload is handled via mw.ForeignUpload, which wasn't showing any errors of its own...
2017-11-29 16:11:41 <Thiemo_WMDE> MatmaRex: I see you uploaded a whole bunch of Gerrit patches for AdvancedSearch. The fact that most are already merged most probably means that the team is super happy about them. :-)
2017-11-29 16:11:48 <CFisch_WMDE> MatmaRex: Hi!
2017-11-29 16:12:03 <Amir1> I brought CFisch_WMDE :)
2017-11-29 16:12:10 <CFisch_WMDE> MatmaRex: Super happy indeed :-)
2017-11-29 16:12:37 <CFisch_WMDE> All seemed really help- and useful
2017-11-29 16:13:06 <MatmaRex> also filed you a bunch of bugs
2017-11-29 16:13:30 <CFisch_WMDE> For the last one with the transformation to the OOjs UI button I have to ping back to UX if we want to have that "pressed" effect
2017-11-29 16:14:04 <MatmaRex> CFisch_WMDE: i liked your overrides to the layout of the form, by the way, i think we should steal some of that back into OOUI
2017-11-29 16:14:19 <CFisch_WMDE> MatmaRex: yeah that's really great. That's exactly what beta testing is about. And providing patches even :-)
2017-11-29 16:15:09 <CFisch_WMDE> About the info icon, the only thing we do is letting it float right... the tab order is due to the order in the DOM that's a bit harder to change.
2017-11-29 16:15:32 <Thiemo_WMDE> YairRand: I look at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Yair_rand/AddAudio.js and wonder. If the upload succeeds, when does the error happen then?
2017-11-29 16:15:32 <CFisch_WMDE> I looked a bit into it today but also have some more pressing things
2017-11-29 16:16:10 <CFisch_WMDE> I don't know if having a config var for the position of the help button is overdone
2017-11-29 16:16:40 <CFisch_WMDE> or if we try to default it to be right of the input box
2017-11-29 16:16:51 <CFisch_WMDE> or "after" in the dom
2017-11-29 16:16:55 <Adotchar> Is this a good place to ask about the mobile app?
2017-11-29 16:17:19 <YairRand> Thiemo_WMDE: it's actually been failing silently, which is quite unfortunate.
2017-11-29 16:17:20 <Reedy> Adotchar: Depends what you want to ask. #wikimedia-mobile might be better
2017-11-29 16:17:22 <Thiemo_WMDE> Adotchar: You can, we can at least try to point you top the right people or place. :-)
2017-11-29 16:17:46 <Adotchar> I was wondering if the ability to use Special:Recent Changes on mobile will ever be supported.
2017-11-29 16:19:55 <Amir1> coreyfloyd can answer this question I guess
2017-11-29 16:20:07 <Thiemo_WMDE> Adotchar: iOS or Android or the mobile skin? https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T133600 ?
2017-11-29 16:20:33 <Adotchar> iOS
2017-11-29 16:21:03 <Thiemo_WMDE> Yea, thats the ticket then. You can add your vote or a comment on the ticket to bring it back to peoples attention.
2017-11-29 16:21:07 <coreyfloyd> Adotchar: we do have history in the app is there a particular feature you are looking for?
2017-11-29 16:21:13 <Adotchar> Okay thanks!
2017-11-29 16:21:30 <Adotchar> Oh I was just wanting to do RC patrol on iOS. Thank’s for the link!
2017-11-29 16:22:00 <coreyfloyd> So the history is not great for patrolling but it works
2017-11-29 16:22:11 <Thiemo_WMDE> YairRand: I would check if there is something wrong with the MIME types your browser creates vs. the ones mentioned in your code vs. the ones Commons expects. Other than that, I'm out of ideas.
2017-11-29 16:22:49 <coreyfloyd> But we want to make it better for mobile patrolling… so please file a ticket for recent changes
2017-11-29 16:23:16 <coreyfloyd> Adotchar: ^ and tag iOS and Android
2017-11-29 16:23:48 <Thiemo_WMDE> coreyfloyd: I think T133600 already exists.
2017-11-29 16:23:48 <stashbot> T133600: Special:RecentChanges not working on iOS mobile app - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T133600
2017-11-29 16:23:57 <YairRand> Thiemo_WMDE: thanks, I'll try and look into that
2017-11-29 16:47:17 <Dysklyver> Can anyone point me to where the source code for WikiSource would be?
2017-11-29 16:47:56 <Thiemo_WMDE> Do you mean https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Main_Page ?
2017-11-29 16:49:16 <Thiemo_WMDE> https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:Version is always a good start to see which exact code is running in a MediaWiki installation. If you follow the links you will also find the source code.
2017-11-29 16:49:48 <Dysklyver> yes thats exactly what I was looking for, thanks
2017-11-29 16:57:39 <rr0> @mlock
2017-11-29 16:58:48 <YairRand> Thiemo_WMDE: looks like the mime type was in fact the issue. not sure why it wasn't making any fuss a few months ago... maybe the browsers changed how they handle recordings...
2017-11-29 16:59:29 <YairRand> now I just need to figure out why mw.ForeignUpload seems to be uploading only to the stash, and why commons is saying something about "embedded data"
2017-11-29 16:59:52 <YairRand> "Unidentified type (application/octet-stream, data)"
2017-11-29 16:59:55 <Thiemo_WMDE> Progress! ;-)
2017-11-29 17:00:03 <YairRand> progress indeed :)
2017-11-29 17:00:26 <Thiemo_WMDE> octet-stream is just some arbitrary binary data. It basically means "no MIME type".
2017-11-29 17:01:16 <YairRand> ...oh
2017-11-29 17:01:22 <YairRand> well, that's not a good sign
2017-11-29 17:02:44 <coreyfloyd> Thiemo_WMDE: thanks
2017-11-29 17:06:19 <Thiemo_WMDE> Our hosted 60 minutes are over. Thanks for the good questions!
2017-11-29 17:08:09 <Dysklyver> cheers :)

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