[02:44:01] Is there a way to get a css/less file to not lazy load? [02:46:17] ah! https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ResourceLoader/Developing_with_ResourceLoader#CSS [19:19:54] Could someone more familiar with restbase/parsoid take a look at Beta Cluster? It seems it's not responding, logs some some cassandra errors. [19:20:07] Unable to load VisualEditor. [19:20:16] some chatter in -releng. [21:40:52] Re https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/core/+/443298 , is running MediaWiki with a nonstandard locale supported? [21:41:16] Apparently we run into PHP bugs with number-string conversions when running in certain non-English locales [21:55:52] oh man, that's ugly RoanKattouw. I wonder how many things would break for folks is we forced `setlocale(LC_ALL, 'C')` somewhere early in MediaWiki startup? [21:58:50] setlocale( LC_ALL, $wgShellLocale ); -- and $wgShellLocale defaults to 'C.UTF-8' [22:00:13] RoanKattouw: DefaultSettings.php pretty much says "leave this alone" but maybe it does not do so forcefully enough? [22:01:50] Interesting [22:02:20] I am also having trouble even reproducing the comma behavior with setlocale( LC_ALL, "ru_RU.UTF-8") and other locales that other people on the internet have reported this behavior with [22:02:25] So maybe it's older PHP versions only [22:02:41] But thanks for finding that, I imagined that we probably have some sort of strategy around messing with locales [22:03:00] Might be worth asking the version question [22:03:31] Its a "Doctor, it hurts when I smash my foot with a hammer" question :) [22:03:46] RoanKattouw: the format of the locale names depends on your OS. and also, you might not have them installed [22:04:49] wow. `locale -a` on my OS X laptop outputs a *ton* of available locales [22:06:53] Hmm good point [22:09:39] Looks like I only have English locales available [22:10:56] Yeah, I don't think we can require that people not have random LC_ values in their environment when running MediaWiki. That's probably reasonable to be different. However, I agree with bd808 that we probably don't support that having any impact on MediaWiki. [22:11:15] Which is already the case, given we ignore the environment and always unconditionally put out our own LC_ALL setting in Setup.php [22:11:26] based on a config var that has a default hardcoded, not based on env [22:12:05] But yeah, why is it configurable? I think because "C.UTF-8" might not exist on all servers, so a sysadmin may have to set it to something different that behaves the same way in their C libs. [22:12:06] His bug report says that he set $wgShellLocale to ru_RU [22:12:20] But i'm not sure how up to date that is and whether that still applies to current-ish operating systems. [22:12:30] Right, that would be unsupported I think. [22:12:36] Which causes MediaWiki's aggressive locale stuff to ensure that the locale is set to ru_RU [22:12:40] ShellLocale is not meant for localisation. [22:12:41] If that's unsupported we should document that more clearly [22:13:00] Sure, but it does need to be set to a utf-8 locale that's available on his system [22:13:22] And we're not telling people that what we actually mean is "an English-language or language-neutral utf-8 locale that won't screw up our number processing" [22:14:03] Right. [22:14:47] So what would be a valid value other than "C.UTF-8" that 1) is compatible, and 2) is existent on systems that don't have "C.UTF-8". [22:15:19] uhm, what systems don't have it? [22:15:38] Is the naming convention different on some distros? Like "utf-8#C" instead or something random like that. [22:15:59] Or about not having "C" as a valid locale.