[02:28:43] 10VisualEditor-LanguageTool, 10Continuous-Integration-Config, 5Patch-For-Review: Jenkins tests run after a +2 in the LanguageTool extension repo, instead of running after a patch set is uploaded - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109057#1543845 (10Legoktm) 5Open>3Resolved a:3Amire80 [06:57:42] 10WikiEditor, 10MediaWiki-ResourceLoader, 10MediaWiki-extensions-Gadgets, 6Wikisource, 7JavaScript: Added button groups to WikiEditor toolbar do not appear after MW ResourceLoader update (English Wikisource) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108437#1544021 (10AuFCL) >>! In T108437#1543038, @Mjbmr wrot... [07:54:51] 10VisualEditor: Text highlight via keyboard does not work as expected - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109252#1544038 (10czar) 3NEW [07:56:43] 10VisualEditor: Feature req: show most recent or most commonly used templates when selecting from dropdown - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109253#1544045 (10czar) 3NEW [07:58:14] 10VisualEditor: Text highlight via keyboard does not work as expected - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109252#1544052 (10czar) [08:29:16] 10WikiEditor, 10MediaWiki-ResourceLoader, 10MediaWiki-extensions-Gadgets, 6Wikisource, 7JavaScript: Added button groups to WikiEditor toolbar do not appear after MW ResourceLoader update (English Wikisource) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108437#1544095 (10TheDJ) Perhaps part of what is going wrong... [08:31:54] 10Citoid: Enable Primo.js translator for Zotero - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109198#1544097 (10mobrovac) >>! In T109198#1543664, @Mvolz wrote: > @mobrovac, this is happening enough (that disabled translators actually work with translation-server after all despite not being enabled, and that we don't fix... [08:39:52] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki-Templates: Show most recent / commonly used templates when selecting from dropdown - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109253#1544116 (10Aklapper) [08:56:55] 10Citoid: Enable Primo.js translator for Zotero - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109198#1544175 (10Mvolz) https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/zotero-dev/gS-ox9OBLCE I think they just went down without anyone noticing for a little while. [08:57:08] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki: Problem to captcha - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113#1544178 (10Aklapper) Wondering if T109212 is the same [08:57:11] 10VisualEditor, 7Browser-Support-Firefox, 7Browser-Support-Google-Chrome: Unable to save edits - captcha keep appearing when I save visual editor to edit Chinese Wikipedia article - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109212#1543136 (10Aklapper) Might be the same underlying issue as T109113 [09:01:05] 10VisualEditor: captcha in visual editor broken for non-confirmed editors - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109203#1544194 (10Aklapper) [09:01:44] 10VisualEditor: captcha in visual editor broken for non-confirmed editors on en.wp - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109203#1544196 (10Aklapper) [09:02:17] Hands up: Several CAPTCHA issues reported with VE: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109212 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109203 [09:02:27] (or more "heads" than "hands", heh) [09:44:46] 10WikiEditor, 10MediaWiki-ResourceLoader, 10MediaWiki-extensions-Gadgets, 6Wikisource, 7JavaScript: Added button groups to WikiEditor toolbar do not appear after MW ResourceLoader update (English Wikisource) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108437#1544315 (10AuFCL) >>! In T108437#1544095, @TheDJ wrot... [10:12:36] 10WikiEditor, 10MediaWiki-ResourceLoader: Extra-Editbuttons Gadget doesn't work in fawikivoyage - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108939#1544404 (10Mjbmr) 5Open>3Resolved a:3Mjbmr [[ https://fa.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=%D9%85%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C:Gadget-Extra-Editbuttons.j... [11:15:04] 10VisualEditor, 6Phabricator, 10Phabricator-Sprint-Extension, 7Performance: Sprint extension doesn't scale to thousands of tasks in a single sprint: burndown page exceeds max execution timeout on visual editor project - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T107197#1544493 (10Christopher) [11:42:51] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki-Mobile, 10MobileFrontend, 7Technical-Debt, and 2 others: [EPIC] Move VisualEditor code from MobileFrontend to VisualEditor - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96186#1544597 (10Jhernandez) [13:10:21] (03PS1) 10Esanders: Clear old captchas after building save options [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232030 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113) [13:11:54] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki, 5Patch-For-Review: Problem to captcha - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113#1544835 (10Esanders) p:5Normal>3Unbreak! [13:13:32] (03CR) 10Esanders: "needs backport" [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232030 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113) (owner: 10Esanders) [13:14:00] 10VisualEditor, 7Browser-Support-Firefox, 7Browser-Support-Google-Chrome: Unable to save edits - captcha keep appearing when I save visual editor to edit Chinese Wikipedia article - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109212#1544819 (10Esanders) [13:16:30] 10VisualEditor: CAPTCHA for not autopatrolled users does not work while adding an external link with VE - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109044#1544854 (10Esanders) [13:16:32] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki, 5Patch-For-Review: Problem to captcha - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113#1544855 (10Esanders) [13:17:03] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki, 5Patch-For-Review: Captchas not being accepted in VisualEditor - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113#1544863 (10Esanders) [13:22:31] (03PS1) 10Esanders: Focus captcha input [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232032 [13:25:47] James_F, yo [13:26:49] this is important: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/232030/ [13:29:59] (03CR) 10Alex Monk: [C: 032] Clear old captchas after building save options [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232030 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113) (owner: 10Esanders) [13:30:18] (03PS1) 10Alex Monk: Clear old captchas after building save options [extensions/VisualEditor] (wmf/1.26wmf18) - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232034 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113) [13:32:43] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Clear old captchas after building save options [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232030 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113) (owner: 10Esanders) [13:42:12] (03CR) 10Esanders: [C: 032] Clear old captchas after building save options [extensions/VisualEditor] (wmf/1.26wmf18) - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232034 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113) (owner: 10Alex Monk) [13:44:37] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Clear old captchas after building save options [extensions/VisualEditor] (wmf/1.26wmf18) - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232034 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113) (owner: 10Alex Monk) [14:27:38] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki-Mobile: "Select all " option in mobile VE selects the options in the toolbar too, it should only select the content inside the CE - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86364#1545390 (10Esanders) Now it just sets the cursor to the start of the document. [14:45:26] Krenair, edsanders: Thanks for that. [14:45:58] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki, 5WMF-deploy-2015-08-11_(1.26wmf18), 5WMF-deploy-2015-08-18_(1.26wmf19): Can't successfully complete a second CAPTCHA in VisualEditor's save dialog - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113#1545441 (10Jdforrester-WMF) 5Open>3Resolved a:3Esanders [14:49:34] 10MediaWiki-extensions-Graph-VE, 10VisualEditor, 10Graph, 6Services, 3Google-Summer-of-Code-2015: Graph editing in VisualEditor - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89287#1545480 (10NiharikaKohli) [14:49:44] 10MediaWiki-extensions-Graph-VE, 10VisualEditor, 10Graph, 6Services, 3Google-Summer-of-Code-2015: Graph editing in VisualEditor - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89287#1122252 (10NiharikaKohli) Hi, I have associated two blocked-by tasks with this project. **For the student:** 1. Please go through t... [14:50:29] 10VisualEditor-LanguageTool, 6Editing-Department, 6Language-Engineering, 3Google-Summer-of-Code-2015, 7I18n: Unified language proofing tools integration framework - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89107#1545486 (10NiharikaKohli) [14:50:41] 10VisualEditor-LanguageTool, 6Editing-Department, 6Language-Engineering, 3Google-Summer-of-Code-2015, 7I18n: Unified language proofing tools integration framework - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89107#1027565 (10NiharikaKohli) Hi, I have associated two blocked-by tasks with this project. **For the... [14:55:40] (03CR) 10Alex Monk: [C: 032] Update message list [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232041 (owner: 10Esanders) [14:56:40] (03PS1) 10Esanders: Add space to comment clipboard html [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232042 [14:57:59] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Update message list [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232041 (owner: 10Esanders) [15:02:27] [13grunt-banana-checker] 15jdforrester created 06translations (+1 new commit): 02https://github.com/wikimedia/grunt-banana-checker/commit/4b407a674301 [15:02:27] 13grunt-banana-checker/06translations 144b407a6 15James D. Forrester: Check translations too [15:03:41] wikimedia/grunt-banana-checker#73 (translations - 4b407a6 : James D. Forrester): The build failed. [15:03:41] Change view : https://github.com/wikimedia/grunt-banana-checker/commit/4b407a674301 [15:03:41] Build details : https://travis-ci.org/wikimedia/grunt-banana-checker/builds/75950545 [15:55:41] i look forward to the widespread usage of visualeditor outside the wikimedia foundation [15:55:59] cscott: I do too. [15:56:07] otherwise i have wasted a huge amount of time [15:56:16] Ha. [15:56:20] On the URL paste stuff? [15:56:40] no, just in general. the costs of the "outside users" fiction are quite large. [15:56:44] in the code base. [15:56:52] It's not fiction. [15:57:03] We already have one major user. [15:57:07] who? [15:57:14] PLOS. [15:57:33] really? that's cool, if so. is there a public URL [15:57:34] ? [15:57:38] Two, if you count Flow (it ignores half of MW-VE and uses VE-core directly, for some strange reason; getting fixed). [15:57:42] Nothing public yet. :-( [15:57:44] flow doesn't count [15:57:57] Google the "tahi editor" for code. [15:58:18] ok, well i'm still looking for the "widespread" part. but having "usage" is a good start at least. [15:58:56] VE looks completely broken in beta [15:59:27] wasn't there some "beta not being updated properly" bug? did that get fixed? [16:00:37] seems fine in prod though [16:00:51] I'm sure there have been many, cscott [16:01:03] no, like last friday. [16:01:20] I've heard that ve-mw is used quite a lot [16:02:42] Oh and cscott, we often have users coming here wanting help setting up VE on their wiki [16:02:50] James_F: my main point is just a resource allocation quibble. we have invested of engineer-hours/dollars in separating ve from ve-mw, complicated the code base, and incurred ongoing engineering debt every time someone needs to consult ve, ve-mw, and ve-wmf just to figure out how something works. [16:02:59] i'm just hoping that investment doesn't turn out to be completely wasted. [16:03:05] I have never needed to look at ve-wmf [16:03:17] I don't even remember what's in there [16:03:17] I think cscott is talking about ve-core [16:04:07] yes [16:04:12] I don't think keeping ve-core separate has cost us /that/ much [16:04:15] * James_F nods. [16:04:17] Krenair: i18n only, right now. [16:04:43] edsanders: yes it certainly has. [16:04:55] and it has an ongoing cost, which also shouldn't be underestimated [16:05:11] i'm just the periodic voice from your conscience reminding y'all of that :) [16:05:35] and encouraging efforts at wider VE dissemination outside the organization, otherwise i'll keep popping up and complaining from time to time :) [16:05:55] well it depends on what you consider a "large amount" [16:06:00] I'm sure you're going to achieve a lot :) [16:06:30] hopefully i make people feel vaguely guilty, and redouble their efforts at getting outside adoption [16:06:46] just to shut me up [16:07:02] * cscott goes back to work separating out ve-core and ve-mw code [16:07:05] we haven't had a major user of ve-core who's contributed as a result, but I think it's improved our general architecture [16:07:40] edsanders: i'm not saying it's not an elegant or a beautiful thing. i'm just reminding everyone that it's an *expensive* bauble. [16:07:57] some of the abstractions we made for core have helped us with Flow and mobile [16:08:25] i don't think flow is a good example here [16:08:47] and you could have made the necessary things for flow and mobile, *not* for an entirely hypothetical consumer [16:09:36] i'm opposed to building things that look like they might be nice to have, without a concrete use case. i prefer refactoring later, once there is that concrete use case, it is usually less expensive. [16:09:37] there are probably consumers within MW that we haven't thought of yet [16:09:47] you're making my point [16:09:58] if you build it they will come [16:10:06] yeah, that's exactly what i think is wrong :) [16:10:11] * edsanders checks his watch [16:10:12] Aren't we using VE core stuff more directly for that wikitext editing WIP? [16:10:38] * cscott should get back to spending time on building not-yet-useful abstractions :) [16:10:43] I agree to a certain extent, but unpicking ve core from MW would've got exponentially harder [16:11:07] Krenair, depends which one [16:11:18] perhaps. i don't think we need to relitigate this now. the decision has been made. [16:11:19] we using some of the abstractions we made for core, certainly [16:11:39] like i said, just consider this the periodic reminder that you need to get actual widespread use of VE outside WMF in order to shut me up. [16:12:02] otherwise i will continue to call the ve-core division a useless abstraction made for a fictional user. [16:12:04] are you volunteering to go door to door? :) [16:12:09] Are you complaining about use outside of WMF? [16:12:18] (or whatever rudeness motivates people to shut me up) :) [16:12:18] Or are you complaining about use outside of MW? [16:12:29] MW [16:12:51] mediawiki-core is a WMF product, so using VE on a mediawiki counts as a WMF use, in my book. if we're being pedantic. [16:13:01] Haha. [16:13:21] * cscott goes back to work [16:14:45] Given what you're talking about, it would perhaps be wise to recognise the use of MW by non-WMF users :) [16:15:08] sure, but what i'm complaining about is allocation of WMF resources [16:15:55] the reasoning is, we build a general editor instead of a wikitext-specific one, because that encourages adoption by outside groups, and thus code contributions by outside groups, thus shrinking the costs to the WMF of maintaining VE in the long term. [16:16:22] this is the way the argument was made, so those are the terms i'm trying to hold people too. [16:17:01] edsanders is making a slightly different argument, which is that dividing ve-core from ve-mw led to a better architecture for ve in general, thus reducing technical debt and shrinking the long term maintenance costs. [16:17:24] i'm not really going to argue that point. it may be true, or it may not be true, but it's not the reasoning which was given for the VE-core split at the time the decision was made. [16:17:59] So you're discarding it because it wasn't what you discussed with the developers at the time? [16:18:12] well, i'm discarding it because i don't really believe it to be true. [16:18:38] But you're not actually going to offer any arguments against it? [16:18:40] but i *do* believe the initial argument. *if* the outside contributors materialize. and i want that to happen. [16:19:23] Krenair: i'm actually trying to wrap up the discussion and get back to work. i was making peace with edsanders by acknowledging his point. [16:20:02] as a broad stroke thing, i think there are large ongoing costs of just splitting the git repositories. ask James_F how much time he spends on [PULL THROUGH] tasks alone, for instance. [16:20:14] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki: Have feedback tool pre-fill the page and wiki on which the user was editing - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109081#1546013 (10Krenair) We could just dump the full URL in there [16:20:16] Very little. Maybe 10 minutes a week. [16:20:27] so even if you were to grant edsanders' point, you should really re-merge the git repos as task #1 if you give up on the "outside users" aspect. [16:20:39] 10 minutes a week for a year is a lot of donor dollars. [16:21:00] and i don't really believe that number because *i've* spend well over 10 minute this past week dealing with the repo splits [16:21:33] i've probably at least 10 minutes today already dealing with the trailing punctuation patch. [16:22:54] anyway, i'm not really trying to argue that we should abandon the split or merge the repos, just that we really need to get outside users in order to justify the ongoing costs, and we should all feel vaguely guilty every time we have to touch multiple repos until we have justified their existence. [16:23:15] and periodically when i feel vaguely guilty about things i waste everyone's time on irc for a while. :) [16:27:09] (03PS1) 10Alex Monk: Set the default feedback message to the page URL [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232063 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109081) [16:27:27] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki, 5Patch-For-Review: Have feedback tool pre-fill the page and wiki on which the user was editing - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109081#1546068 (10Krenair) a:3Krenair [16:35:25] (03PS7) 10Cscott: Don't include trailing punctuation in autolinked typed text [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231580 [16:37:11] (03PS1) 10Cscott: [PULL-THROUGH] Add MW-specific trailing punctuation rules for autolinking [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232066 [16:37:20] case in point [16:39:16] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] [PULL-THROUGH] Add MW-specific trailing punctuation rules for autolinking [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232066 (owner: 10Cscott) [16:39:31] (03CR) 10Cscott: "Despite my griping about the costs of the ve-core/ve-mw split, I've refactored this to parameterize the trailing punctuation set, and giv" [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231580 (owner: 10Cscott) [16:40:20] (03CR) 10Cscott: "jsduck is failing because the inherited member has not been pulled through yet." [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232066 (owner: 10Cscott) [16:42:19] 10VisualEditor: Display large dialogs on - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109332#1546186 (10Esanders) 3NEW [16:42:39] (03PS1) 10Esanders: Increase PageImages limit to number of pages requested [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232067 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109332) [16:42:44] 10VisualEditor: Display large dialogs on - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109332#1546196 (10Esanders) p:5Triage>3High [16:43:26] 10VisualEditor: Thumbnails missing from link context on long pages - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109332#1546206 (10Esanders) [16:43:31] (03CR) 10Cscott: Autolink pasted links (031 comment) [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231145 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T107431) (owner: 10Cscott) [16:44:22] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki-Mobile: Display large dialogs properly on mobile - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109333#1546211 (10Esanders) 3NEW [16:46:40] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki-Links: Many/most thumbnails missing from link context on long pages - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109332#1546232 (10Jdforrester-WMF) a:3Esanders [16:50:13] (03CR) 10Esanders: Autolink pasted links (031 comment) [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231145 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T107431) (owner: 10Cscott) [16:52:14] (03CR) 10Esanders: [C: 032] Don't include trailing punctuation in autolinked typed text [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231580 (owner: 10Cscott) [16:53:41] (03CR) 10Esanders: [C: 031] "lgtm, just needs pull through" [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232066 (owner: 10Cscott) [16:54:08] (03PS3) 10Jforrester: [WIP] Alter welcome text to be welcoming [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/221762 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T99963) [16:55:11] cscott, James_F yeah beta labs is still broken. Looks like ve.init.Platform.js hasn't been updated properly [16:55:17] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Don't include trailing punctuation in autolinked typed text [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231580 (owner: 10Cscott) [17:02:34] (03PS1) 10Esanders: Add close button to debug bar [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232073 [17:03:07] (03PS2) 10Jforrester: Update VE core submodule to master (d020898) [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232066 (owner: 10Cscott) [17:08:26] (03CR) 10Cscott: [C: 031] Update VE core submodule to master (d020898) [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232066 (owner: 10Cscott) [17:08:40] (03CR) 10Jforrester: [C: 032] Update VE core submodule to master (d020898) [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232066 (owner: 10Cscott) [17:11:40] edsanders: Does https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/232042/ have a filed Phabricator task? [17:12:03] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Update VE core submodule to master (d020898) [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232066 (owner: 10Cscott) [17:12:32] (And replication/etc. steps.) [17:15:59] (03PS8) 10Jforrester: build: Bump grunt-jscs to 2.0.0 and make pass [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/227885 [17:16:53] 10VisualEditor: Positioning of link inspector while using link tool - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T105418#1546494 (10Nirzar) p:5Normal>3High [17:18:27] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-ContentEditable: VisualEditor: We need a representation of red-linked images - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T52788#1546502 (10cscott) [17:23:08] (03CR) 10Alex Monk: [C: 032] Increase PageImages limit to number of pages requested [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232067 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109332) (owner: 10Esanders) [17:25:46] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Increase PageImages limit to number of pages requested [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232067 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109332) (owner: 10Esanders) [17:26:27] edsanders, I sync-file'd php-master/extensions/VisualEditor/modules/ve-mw/init/ve.init.mw.Platform.js [17:26:36] now it's broken in a different way [17:27:23] oh, wait [17:27:45] nope, debug mode and non-debug mode break in different ways [17:28:48] Krenair: debug mode on beta cluster returns outdated results [17:28:56] it has been this way for months, there's a bug [17:29:11] Krenair: VE is also broken in debug mode, apparently, for unrelated reasons. [17:29:21] in non-debug mode you mean? [17:29:21] unless somebody fixed that since i last looked. [17:29:31] no. [17:30:16] VE is broken in debug mode for both generic, months-old issues and a new issue? [17:30:23] it's also broken in non-debug mode [17:30:29] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki-Links: Many/most thumbnails missing from link context on long pages - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109332#1546556 (10Jdforrester-WMF) 5Open>3Resolved [17:31:25] Krenair: hmm, i think the debug mode issue i recall was fixed by recent RL work. [17:31:32] so disregard that part. :) [17:32:27] (03CR) 10Alex Monk: [C: 04-1] Convert save checkboxes to OOUI widgets [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231300 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86617) (owner: 10Esanders) [17:32:37] 10VisualEditor, 6Community-Liaison, 7Documentation: Check page views during July 2015 for the VisualEditor user guide - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108143#1546562 (10Jdforrester-WMF) [17:34:45] MatmaRex: Debug mode for VE should now be fixed. [17:34:54] MatmaRex: Now that user module is actually provided for debug mode. [17:35:40] Krenair: Are you getting 'Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token !'? [17:36:44] yes [17:36:51] Oy. [17:37:02] Ori's fix for that went to prod on Friday. [17:37:12] (03PS3) 10Esanders: Convert save checkboxes to OOUI widgets [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231300 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86617) [17:37:37] https://integration.wikimedia.org/ci/view/Beta/job/beta-scap-eqiad/66099/console seems to be taking a fair time. [17:38:00] Ori got up to lots in production on Friday, what was the change? [17:38:07] James_F: the jscs patch doesn't seem right -- WMF code style has always been that spaces inside [] aren't required, isn't it? [17:38:17] Krenair: Changing the RL JS minifier. [17:38:32] 19:29 logmsgbot: ori@tin Synchronized php-1.26wmf18/includes/resourceloader/ResourceLoader.php: f72009a543: ResourceLoader: apply minify-js filter to config scripts (duration: 00m 13s) [17:38:33] that one? [17:38:33] cscott: No, it's been that they are, but until jscs 2.0 it wasn't enforced. We can go either way, but… [17:38:47] Krenair: No, the crisis-urgent fix for that. [17:38:58] heh [17:39:19] 23:47 logmsgbot: ori@tin Synchronized php-1.26wmf18/includes/libs/ReplacementArray.php: (no message) (duration: 00m 27s) [17:39:20] ? [17:39:22] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/231605/ was the neat one. [17:39:27] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/231729/ was its fix. [17:39:55] James_F: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Coding_conventions/PHP doesn't mention square brackets, and the examples explicitly don't contain spaces inside square brackets [17:40:09] Apparently "foo === true" uses more bytes than "foo === !0". [17:40:19] cscott: Well, umm, that's the PHP coding conventions. [17:40:44] cscott: https://github.com/jscs-dev/node-jscs/blob/master/presets/wikimedia.json is our coding standard for JS. [17:40:46] i agree that https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Coding_conventions/JavaScript#Whitespace has spaces inside square brackets, but that seems wrong. hm. [17:41:09] cscott: I don't care much (I slightly prefer with whitespace, but not enough to die in a ditch). [17:41:22] i don't care much, but i prefer consistency [17:41:44] I checked and that commit appears on deployment-mediawiki0[1-3] [17:41:59] Krenair: Hmm. Does it work if you delete local storage? [17:42:04] i'd learned the spacy php conventions, and i assumed VE was similarly spacy. it's weird that it's not. [17:42:14] cscott: Yeah, I agree that foo( bar ) but foo[bar] is a crap "convention". [17:42:15] good idea [17:42:40] Krenair: (If that does fix it, I have no idea how we'll fix it for prod users.) [17:43:01] well, the convention was that `foo[ 0 ]` "looks weird", which i can't argue with. [17:43:20] cscott: You can. Subjective arguments by definition are arguable. ;-) [17:43:21] sync a localStorage.clear() call or something? :p [17:43:27] that doesn't fix it though [17:43:28] Krenair: Ewwwwwwwww. [17:43:32] Krenair: OK, well, darn. [17:43:39] Krenair: Wipe APC or whatever cache we use? [17:43:51] anyway, the size of the diff for https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/227885 makes me believe that a decent number of other folks also made the assumption that VE's spacing rules followed PHP's. [17:43:52] No idea how to do that [17:44:29] i'm be curious to compare the size of the patch enforcing no-space-for-square-brackets. [17:44:51] Krenair: oooooooh. [17:44:52] Krenair: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/231728/ [17:45:06] Krenair: It's in wmf18 and deployed, but not in master. [17:45:12] Krenair: That'd explain. [17:45:23] ugh [17:45:36] Indeed. [17:45:37] Eww. [17:46:01] Someone who knows what they're doing want to +2? RoanKattouw maybe? Krinkle is the obvious candidate, but is offline this week. [17:46:02] I think we're already enforcing spaces inside square brackets for array construction [17:46:07] [ 0, 1, 2, 3 ] [17:46:11] edsanders: Yeah. [17:46:52] edsanders: so "foo( bar )" and "[ bar ]" and "{ foo: bar }" but not "foo[ bar ]" would be odd. [17:47:09] James_F, to be honest if this is already in WMF production it's probably safe enough for mediawiki master [17:47:16] (03CR) 10Cscott: "I'd assumed that VE followed the PHP code style for square brackets, and was quite surprised to find that https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/M" [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/227885 (owner: 10Jforrester) [17:47:20] Krenair: Probably. [17:47:30] cscott: Not the repo for that conversation. [17:48:00] Except the code in production does not match the proposed patch to master [17:48:36] James_F: oh, i need to find an extension/VisualEditor repo to make the comment in? I'll add this to my "cost of ve-core split" spreadsheet. ;-P [17:49:08] cscott: No. [17:49:14] cscott: It's a Wikimedia-wide decision. [17:49:38] cscott: It's not Editing's call, let alone any one repo. [17:50:00] (03CR) 10Alex Monk: [C: 032] Convert save checkboxes to OOUI widgets [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231300 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86617) (owner: 10Esanders) [17:50:00] cscott: The best one would probably be mw-core, if anywhere. But meta-coding things normally live on-wiki. [17:53:09] `[ 0 ]` vs `[0]` is undecided in mw-core as well, AFAICT. there are instances of both. [17:53:19] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Convert save checkboxes to OOUI widgets [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231300 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86617) (owner: 10Esanders) [17:53:34] cscott: Yes, because we've not upgraded core to jscs 2.0 yet. [17:53:49] cscott: And because there's no need to be disruptive in applying the rule just because. [17:54:07] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki, 10UI-Standardization, 5WMF-deploy-2015-08-18_(1.26wmf19): VisualEditor's save dialog should use OOUI checkboxes - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86617#1546611 (10Jdforrester-WMF) 5Open>3Resolved a:3Esanders [17:54:31] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-InterfaceLanguage, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki, 7Design, and 2 others: The checkboxen in the save dialog wrap poorly if the texts are too long - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T70572#1546616 (10Jdforrester-WMF) 5Open>3Resolved a:3Esanders [17:54:41] and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:Rosp5ogxpw1hl0eu actually has a comment by some Jdforrester guy stating that spaces shouldn't be used inside square brackets when accessing an array. [17:54:55] cscott: Yeah, well, don't trust that guy, he's an idiot. ;-) [17:55:33] https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Manual:Coding_conventions/JavaScript&diff=1358395&oldid=1354048 [17:55:44] he's *crazy* [17:55:53] I follow consensus. [17:55:59] Even if I think it's wrong [17:56:15] Case in point, if ( foo ) { \n … \n } [17:56:29] When any fool knows it should be f ( foo ) \n { \n … \n } [17:56:30] ;-) [17:56:47] anyway, my point is that it is currently inconsistent in all the codebases I've looked at, likely because there has been no enforcement, so this is a good inflection point for reflection. [17:57:16] * James_F nods. [17:57:40] cscott: To steal a line of code from my screen right now: [17:58:01] I think the spaces in "if ( !translatedData[ index ].missing.hasOwnProperty( sourceMessageKeys[ message ] )" make it much more readable. [17:58:13] "if ( !translatedData[index].missing.hasOwnProperty( sourceMessageKeys[message] )" is pretty challenging. [17:58:35] i'm in the habit of reading code without spaces. maybe you just need practice. ;) [17:58:49] * James_F is in the habit of reading Wikimedia-style code. [17:59:03] * cscott is in the habit of reading node-style code [17:59:36] * cscott goes back to word [17:59:39] *work [17:59:50] Like Parsoid? [18:00:12] i'm capable of maintaining more than one project in my emacs at a time [18:00:29] so long as they both agree on tabs-vs-spaces [18:01:07] Ha. [18:01:51] Krenair: Want to +2 https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/231728/ then? [18:01:57] (but Parsoid uses the node-style-guide jscs preset, as do all the projects from the services group, if that's the question you're asking.) [18:02:43] James_F, Except the code in production does not match the proposed patch to master [18:02:54] Krenair: Oh, wait, really? [18:03:25] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/231728/4/includes/libs/JavaScriptMinifier.php vs https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/231729/1/includes/libs/JavaScriptMinifier.php [18:03:26] * James_F sighs. [18:03:32] I mean, it looks sane. [18:13:55] "for VE that mostly happens because James simply knows everything." [18:14:08] ^ [18:14:16] guillom: What's that quote from? [18:14:34] RoanKattouw: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/teampractices/2015-August/000891.html [18:16:41] Ha. [18:16:52] Other people know stuff too! [18:18:12] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-ContentEditable: cannot edit most of page with missing closing tt-tag - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T107212#1546730 (10Jdforrester-WMF) p:5Triage>3Unbreak! a:3Catrope [18:18:28] James_F: That's a Parsoid bug [18:18:29] 10VisualEditor, 10Browser-Tests: add true internationalized content support to auto-screenshots - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T105466#1546732 (10Jdforrester-WMF) a:3Vikassy [18:18:52] RoanKattouw: ? [18:19:17] "Follow-up 8250c8ad54: unbreak ApiResponseCache" [18:19:49] Written by you, tagged against that task on the day it was marked fixed. Mis-tagged? [18:21:28] Oh sorry, thought you were reopening it [18:21:45] James_F: That was a mis-tag I think [18:22:03] RoanKattouw: OK… [18:22:45] RoanKattouw: Also, can I bully you into +2ing https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/231728/ please? Prod has it (well, an older version of it) but master doesn't, so JS in Beta Cluster is badly broken. [18:23:23] or we could revert the broken patch… [18:24:06] MatmaRex: Or taht. [18:24:36] Personally I assume that gzip tokenises '!0' as two tokens but 'false' as one, so if anything I'd assume reverting would increase performance. [18:24:42] But I'm not an expert. [18:25:56] pretty sure gzip is dumber than that. [19:03:54] MatmaRex: "!" and "1" and "0" occur independently in code, but "fal" and "se" don't, so the first set would get tokenised as independent things, but the second wouldn't no? [19:17:51] (03PS2) 10Jforrester: ve.dm.CommentNode: Add space to comments' clipboard html [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232042 (owner: 10Esanders) [19:17:58] (03CR) 10Jforrester: [C: 032] ve.dm.CommentNode: Add space to comments' clipboard html [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232042 (owner: 10Esanders) [19:18:30] (03PS2) 10Jforrester: DebugBar: Add a close button [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232073 (owner: 10Esanders) [19:18:35] (03CR) 10Jforrester: [C: 032] DebugBar: Add a close button [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232073 (owner: 10Esanders) [19:19:21] cscott: Did you like the look of https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/231017/ enough to +1 or even +2? [19:20:11] (03PS2) 10Jforrester: ve.init.mw.Target#saveErrorCaptcha: Focus CAPTCHA input on display [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232032 (owner: 10Esanders) [19:20:24] (03CR) 10Jforrester: [C: 031] ve.init.mw.Target#saveErrorCaptcha: Focus CAPTCHA input on display [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232032 (owner: 10Esanders) [19:22:00] James_F: I'd need to actually review it. It seems like edsanders responded to my initial q, but i haven't actually looked at the code to see whether i could use it. [19:22:09] * James_F nods. [19:22:21] cscott: That's fine, just wondering if I need to prepare for it to be in tomorrow's cut. [19:22:59] (03CR) 10Alex Monk: [C: 032] ve.init.mw.Target#saveErrorCaptcha: Focus CAPTCHA input on display [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232032 (owner: 10Esanders) [19:24:12] (03CR) 10Jforrester: [C: 031] Set the default feedback message to the page URL [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232063 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109081) (owner: 10Alex Monk) [19:25:41] Krenair: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/231202/ would be nice whilst you're at it. :-) [19:26:04] Krenair: Who do you think can review https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/231617/ – Moriel maybe? [19:27:12] Moriel should be able to, I think edsanders and other people should also be able to [19:27:28] (03CR) 10Catrope: [C: 032] Fix foreign file repositories (e.g. InstantCommons or equivalent) support [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231617 (owner: 10Alex Monk) [19:28:05] Or RoanKattouw can be amazing. :-) [19:28:12] :) [19:29:47] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] ve.dm.CommentNode: Add space to comments' clipboard html [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232042 (owner: 10Esanders) [19:29:58] Meh. [19:30:25] (03CR) 10Jforrester: [C: 032] "Jenkins, you suck." [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232042 (owner: 10Esanders) [19:34:54] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Fix foreign file repositories (e.g. InstantCommons or equivalent) support [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231617 (owner: 10Alex Monk) [19:35:52] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: ve.dm.CommentNode: Add space to comments' clipboard html [VisualEditor/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232042 (owner: 10Esanders) [19:43:36] 10VisualEditor: Create third version of VE burnup report - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T107482#1547098 (10JAufrecht) [19:47:00] (03PS1) 10Jforrester: Update VE core submodule to master (cf224ad) [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232189 [19:50:07] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Update VE core submodule to master (cf224ad) [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/232189 (owner: 10Jforrester) [19:51:50] Krenair: The thing I'm confused by is that http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:Version says that Beta Cluster is running https://git.wikimedia.org/tree/mediawiki%2Fcore.git/16a4f928f11edf157130cbf56b6ed5a9ada3142a so this problem should be fixed… but isn't? [19:52:37] It looks like it is running the right version now [19:52:44] at least mediawiki01 has the change now [19:53:05] and it does work [19:53:54] The ! thing [19:53:55] ? [19:54:00] yes [19:54:24] Ah, must be a caching thing locally, then. [19:54:52] Yup, works fine after I clear local storage. [19:55:02] Which… isn't great. [20:02:39] edsanders: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/232189/ needs a test fix I guess given the new expected output. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/232063/ and https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/230814/ are good to merge if you're happy. https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/231202/ similarly. [20:02:47] * James_F cracks the whip. [20:04:17] James_F, so https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/231202/4/modules/ve-mw/ui/contextitems/ve.ui.MWLinkNodeContextItem.js mostly looks good other than the filename [20:04:27] MWLinkNodeContextItem for MWNumberedExternalLinkNodeContextItem ? [20:04:41] Krenair: Oh, ha, yeah, I changed my mind about what to call it half way through. [20:04:43] Whoops. :-) [20:04:50] I'll fix. [20:05:07] (03CR) 10Alex Monk: [C: 04-1] MWNumberedExternalLinkNode: Provide a context item (031 comment) [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231202 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T98211) (owner: 10Jforrester) [20:06:32] (03CR) 10Jforrester: MWNumberedExternalLinkNode: Provide a context item (031 comment) [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231202 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T98211) (owner: 10Jforrester) [20:06:58] (03PS5) 10Jforrester: MWNumberedExternalLinkNode: Provide a context item [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231202 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T98211) [20:07:37] (03CR) 10Alex Monk: [C: 032] MWNumberedExternalLinkNode: Provide a context item [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231202 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T98211) (owner: 10Jforrester) [20:07:48] Thanks. [20:08:06] 10VisualEditor, 10VisualEditor-MediaWiki-Links, 5Patch-For-Review: Provide a context item for MWNumberedExternalLinkNodes - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T98211#1547189 (10Jdforrester-WMF) 5Open>3Resolved [20:08:40] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] MWNumberedExternalLinkNode: Provide a context item [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231202 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T98211) (owner: 10Jforrester) [20:08:49] Whut? [20:09:40] Typo? [20:10:35] Oh. [20:10:40] I'm an idiot. [20:11:08] (03PS6) 10Jforrester: MWNumberedExternalLinkNode: Provide a context item [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231202 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T98211) [20:13:43] (03CR) 10Alex Monk: [C: 032] MWNumberedExternalLinkNode: Provide a context item [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231202 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T98211) (owner: 10Jforrester) [20:16:28] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: MWNumberedExternalLinkNode: Provide a context item [extensions/VisualEditor] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/231202 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T98211) (owner: 10Jforrester) [20:42:05] James_F|Away: the latest version of jscs (2.1.x) appears to be incompatible with node 0.8. Is that why you pinned your jscs at 2.0.0? [21:30:18] 10VisualEditor, 6Collaboration-Team-Backlog, 10Flow: Flow shows different values for magic words after the comment is saved (compared to VE preview) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95681#1547415 (10Quiddity) [21:34:35] 10VisualEditor, 6Collaboration-Team-Backlog, 10Flow: Side rail description using VE asks about saving changes while nothing was changed - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T99893#1547448 (10Etonkovidova) Checked betalabs - with Ve enabled and with wikitext enabled as preferences. The warning "You have enter... [21:36:02] 10VisualEditor, 6Collaboration-Team-Backlog, 10Flow, 3Collaboration-Team-Current: Side rail description using VE asks about saving changes while nothing was changed - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T99893#1547458 (10Etonkovidova) 5Open>3Resolved [22:43:43] how do i create a link to another wiki page, in the visual editor? [22:45:03] juri_, there should be a link icon in the toolbar [22:45:53] after formatting, before Cite [22:46:29] and... ? [22:46:51] and you press the button and it should be obvious what to do from there? [22:47:03] sure, for a technical user. [22:47:11] no [22:47:12] for all users [22:48:03] well then, consider a 'external link' 'another wiki page' dropdown to be a feature request. [22:49:10] you can already insert an external link [22:49:11] juri_: it's easier when you *don't* know what an interwiki link is. :) [22:49:32] maybe i just have stupider users, or am more lazy, but writing out a whole URL for "anothe page named " seems easier. [22:49:38] just paste the URL in the text field [22:49:49] hmm [22:50:07] juri_: by "another wiki page", do you mean "another page on this wiki", or "a page on another wiki"? [22:50:19] on this wiki. [22:50:20] (both can be created by just pasting the full URL in the text field) [22:50:35] (i think) [22:50:42] juri_: This is what I see when selecting text and opening the link inspector http://i.imgur.com/U8x0zDq.png [22:50:46] sure. but UI wise, a dropdown makes a lot of sense. [22:50:56] You should be able to type the name of the other page you want to link to and have suggestions appear [22:51:07] Also, there's already a choice there between "Search pages" and "External link" [22:51:25] whoa. [22:51:35] that's totally different from what i have. [22:51:40] what wiki is this on? [22:51:53] my own. 1.25_REL. [22:52:13] For the record, I got that by going to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake?veaction=edit , selecting "frequency" and clicking the link button [22:53:07] yeah, REL1_25 might have a slightly older interface [22:53:28] wikipedia updates from master every week [22:54:10] eeew. [22:54:29] and apagename by default uses localhost/... not good. [22:56:08] what? [22:56:22] is your wiki not at localhost? [22:59:03] um. [22:59:11] it's not on my local computer. ;) [22:59:41] (as in, it should use its domain name when constructing URLs, silly!) [23:00:05] juri_, yes, it should [23:00:13] Is it not doing that for you? [23:00:25] no, it's not. [23:00:30] any ideas?