[01:37:15] <furry>	 I'm getting a message that my wiki "uses cookies to log in users. You have cookies disabled. Please enable them and try again." when trying to login, but cookies are definitely enabled in all of my browsers. I /think/ it's a problem with PHP's session storage, but I've got no idea where to start troubleshooting past that
[01:37:17] <furry>	 any ideas?
[01:37:52] <RoanKattouw>	 !session.save_path
[01:37:59] <RoanKattouw>	 furry: That could be it ---^^
[01:38:36] <furry>	 it is definitely set - it was working just a short while ago. The problem only showed itself after I upgraded to Debian 7
[01:40:23] <furry>	 ... and the problem just resolved itself. odd.
[03:54:14] <PC>	 Hello, I seem to be having a bit of trouble installing the skin "DeepSea" onto my wiki - Which file needs to be called in "Require once"? What I keep getting is either an un-styled page, or I simple see the default theme (Vector).
[03:54:27] <PC>	 *simply
[04:07:47] <dgrez>	 PC, I never heard of that skin but... did you try setting it up on your LocalSettings?
[04:08:47] <PC>	 dgrez: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:DeepSea - Yes, but it turns out "wrong" each time - It either loads vecotr or loads a page without an styling.
[04:09:59] <PC>	 *vector I'm not sure whih file needs to use "require_once"
[04:10:47] <dgrez>	 I'm not sure why would you need to require_once something
[04:10:55] <dgrez>	 Hold on, I'll check it
[04:11:34] <PC>	 Every guide on skins I've read mentions "require_once"-ing something.
[04:12:51] <PC>	 I downloaded the folder on GitHub, added it to the skins folder, and it all went wrong from there.
[04:13:10] <dgrez>	 Yeah, you prolly read a guide on creating skings :P
[04:13:29] <dgrez>	 You've got to add $wgDefaultSkin = "DeepSea"; to your localsettings page
[04:13:30] <dgrez>	 nothing else
[04:13:44] <dgrez>	 it's worked fine on my server
[04:14:30] <PC>	 I'm still seeing vector
[04:15:16] <dgrez>	 purged your cache?
[04:15:28] <PC>	 Yep
[04:16:04] <dgrez>	 did you check if there's another $wgDefaultSkin instance on Localsettings?
[04:16:21] <dgrez>	 maybe it's still set to Vector there
[04:17:14] <PC>	 No, that's the only one. I can change to monobook just fine.
[04:18:06] <PC>	 DeepSea appears as vector - Despite my "preferences" saying 'DeepSea (default | Preview)'
[04:19:27] <dgrez>	 Deepsea is based on Vector. The skin may be misworking
[04:19:48] <dgrez>	 check if all the CSS/JS thingies are there, though
[04:20:02] <PC>	 Does it look like "DeepSea" skin when used on your server?
[04:21:01] <dgrez>	 it does
[04:36:45] <PC>	 dgrez: What mediawiki version are you using?
[04:42:49] <PC>	 This is absolutely frustrating.
[04:46:37] <PC>	 Anyone? Please? I have no idea what the heck is going on.
[04:50:20] <cornfeedhobo>	 1.23
[04:50:37] <cornfeedhobo>	 oh. skins.
[04:50:38] <cornfeedhobo>	 nvm
[04:51:24] <huh>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Skin_configuration
[04:54:29] <PC>	 Already read through that - The skin still appears as vetor and only as vector.
[04:58:35] <PC>	 The credits don't appear on Special:Version...
[05:01:07] <PC>	 dgrez: Do the credits for DeepSea appear in your Special:Version?
[05:01:18] <PC>	 They do not appear on mine at all.
[05:03:16] <PC>	 I'm trying so hard not to have a mental break down.
[05:05:11] <PC>	 Are there not any additional steps to installing a skin? None at all?
[05:11:36] <PC>	 Last plea for help - What would cause a new skin to NOT appear on Special:Version under "Skins"? Obviously something isn't right.
[05:29:45] <withoutaname>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Logging_to_Special:Log says to use 'log-name-foo' => 'Foo log', but most other extensions I've seen has 'foo-log-name' or 'extension-log-name-foo', so what's the true standard on naming the logs
[06:13:11] <BPositive>	 Hi all, do we have some API in MediaWiki which would take the input as some string and the output would be the language in which that string is?
[06:13:36] <BPositive>	 or even if I come to know if the language is English or non-English is sufficient enough
[06:52:44] <withoutaname>	 do dbkeys use underscores or spaces
[07:14:12] <Nemo_bis>	 (What BPositive asked doesn't exist.)
[07:14:26] <Nemo_bis>	 withoutaname: if you need to worry you're probably doing something wrong?
[07:14:39] <Nemo_bis>	 IIRC space though
[07:15:02] <withoutaname>	 w/e, guess it's a nonissue
[07:15:36] <withoutaname>	 I've run into another problem though, manuallogentry requires a title for settarget(), but I got none
[07:17:32] <withoutaname>	 capitalizes the first letter of the "title" and turns it into a redlink, and I don't want that
[07:19:48] <legoktm>	 withoutaname, Nemo_bis: dbkey use underscores
[07:20:16] <legoktm>	 but what nemo said about if you need to know that, you're doing something wrong
[07:20:45] <legoktm>	 withoutaname: if your log entry isn't associated with a specific page, pick a dummy page
[07:21:17] <withoutaname>	 legoktm: will '' or ' ' work?
[07:21:37] <withoutaname>	 i.e. empty string or space
[07:22:29] <legoktm>	 it might, but you shouldn't rely on it
[07:22:33] <legoktm>	 use a dummy title
[07:22:45] <legoktm>	 Title::newFromText( 'My extension name' );
[07:24:15] <withoutaname>	 legoktm: hm, can I also omit parameter $3 from the message in json
[07:25:22] <withoutaname>	 legoktm: originally I was thinking of manually doing a $dbw->insert() for the log entries, but that would be tedious
[07:26:02] <legoktm>	 no, don't do that
[07:26:24] <legoktm>	 withoutaname: right, so set a dummy title, and remove $3 from the message
[07:26:56] <legoktm>	 withoutaname: if you look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/massmessage you'll see that some of the entries hide the user, which is set to the bot even though that makes no sense
[07:46:04] <withoutaname>	 legoktm: if I wanted to implement a "history" section for my specialpage containing the log entries, would I have to make it transcludable
[07:46:19] <legoktm>	 umm, what do you mean?
[07:48:54] <withoutaname>	 legoktm: exactly like the bottom of https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:GlobalGroupPermissions/Global_bot
[07:51:00] <withoutaname>	 oh I see the logfragment now...
[07:52:13] <legoktm>	 withoutaname: LogEventsList::showExtract I think
[08:07:18] <withoutaname>	 legoktm: are the log entries in wikitext or html, for wfMessage->text() or wfMessage->parse()
[08:07:32] <withoutaname>	 and thanks for your help so far, the extension is almost done
[08:07:41] <withoutaname>	 just need to publish it somewhere now
[08:07:55] <legoktm>	 I don't remember, look at the LogFormatter class?
[08:08:06] <legoktm>	 It's probably ->text()/->escaped()
[08:08:16] <legoktm>	 either way, you can override it by setting your own LogFormatter
[08:09:29] <withoutaname>	 wow, i found it
[08:09:48] <withoutaname>	 apparently it was hacked in r7855 to contain both wikitext and html
[08:09:54] <legoktm>	 lol
[08:10:08] <legoktm>	 yeah, there's a plaintext mode for IRC messages, and html for on-wiki
[08:10:10] <withoutaname>	 LogPage.php, line 341
[08:26:47] <Nemo_bis>	 Summaries have their own parsing rules...
[09:11:59] <naman>	  I am new to git . Can u tell me how to configure git-review . How to edit .config/git-review/git-review.conf and add these two lines:  [gerrit] defaultremote = origin
[09:13:42] <jubo2>	 Hello
[09:13:50] <jubo2>	 Shukran Shukran FLGOSS devels
[09:13:50] <naman>	 Hello
[09:14:00] <jubo2>	 ar."Shukran" == en."Thank you"
[09:14:45] <jubo2>	 The MW has quite reliably served http://develop.consumerium.org/wiki/ for 10+ yrs but now it's coughing and squatting down
[09:15:05] <jubo2>	 I've gotten about 70 outage incidents in the last week
[09:15:27] <jubo2>	 What logs should I look at? What should I do?
[09:15:36] <jubo2>	 It's a Debian6 machine if that is relevant
[09:16:09] <jubo2>	 I have a Debian7 server I'm going to migrate it to this Summer
[09:16:11] <naman>	 i have ubuntu 14.04 installed 
[09:16:21] <jubo2>	 naman: Nice does it work ? 
[09:16:36] <jubo2>	 I'm waiting for 14.04.1 and then doing clean install everything on my netobooks
[09:17:19] <jubo2>	 the MW is not the latest.. I check what it is..
[09:18:15] <jubo2>	 the current production server has a brokeh git so managing large number of extensions like in the https://c.consumium.org implementation-phases is required so the migration has been on the to-do list for longtime.. too long..
[09:21:01] <legoktm>	 jubo2: what version of MW are you running? your wiki isn't loading for me...
[09:22:08] <naman>	 i don,t know
[09:22:30] <naman>	 how can i check it
[09:26:39] <naman>	 Thanks for ur help. I think i'll try it myself again.
[10:19:10] <se4598>	 why are two bots (why wm-bot4) outputting the same bugs in #mediawiki-feed?
[10:22:08] <legoktm>	 se4598: we turned off wm-bot4 earlier (~2 weeks ago?) but for some reason it just started talking again when it disconnected/reconnected
[10:33:09] <Nemo_bis>	 This guy is a nice MediaWiki promoter http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-l/2014-June/042915.html
[10:37:20] <legoktm>	 Betacommand: re your email, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:GlobalPreferences does exist :)
[10:38:08] <Betacommand>	 legoktm: then why cant we get it deployed?
[10:38:19] <Nemo_bis>	 lol
[10:38:48] <Nemo_bis>	 se4598: find an op to quiet one of the two
[10:39:26] <brother_johnny>	 A question, what does $wgSecretKey do?
[10:40:00] <brother_johnny>	 My wiki's LocalSettings file has it.
[10:40:47] <legoktm>	 Betacommand: the extension is a tad bit hacky, and I don't have time to see it through the review process, etc. Also the UI needs serious help.
[10:41:33] <Betacommand>	 legoktm: still we have had SUL for what 5 *years* and cant get global preferences deployed?
[10:42:33] <legoktm>	 dunno
[10:44:22] <brother_johnny>	 Can i comment out $wgSecretKey?
[10:44:54] <legoktm>	 !wg SecretKey
[10:44:54] <wm-bot>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgSecretKey
[10:45:23] <legoktm>	 brother_johnny: I don't think you should, see ^ for what it's used for
[10:46:09] <legoktm>	 Betacommand: fun fact: global prefs was actually part of the preferences rewrite in 2009, it got backed out since there was no UI for it.
[10:46:25] <legoktm>	 (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/49932)
[10:46:32] <Betacommand>	 legoktm: thats just wrong
[10:46:46] <Betacommand>	 leave the code, and develop a UI
[10:47:03] <legoktm>	 well, it also wouldn't have worked properly
[10:47:19] <legoktm>	 but my extension fixed those issues.
[11:10:02] <Nemo_bis>	 O_o https://duckduckgo.com/1/c/Free_software_programmed_in_PHP
[11:34:50] <lazowik>	 Reedy: hey, is this open source phpstorm licence for mediawiki still up?
[11:35:19] <lazowik>	 and would it be suitable for doing more of a Wikibase development, with core ocassionally
[11:43:46] <legoktm>	 lazowik: see pm
[13:09:00] <Nemo_bis>	 yaay only 9k more pages to purge https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/AnankeBot
[13:32:53] <jubo2>	 Hello and Shukran, Shukran FLGOSS devels
[13:33:01] <jubo2>	 a production server is grinding to halt and squat due to tens of Apache2 processes eating up all the memory - http://picpaste.com/pics/VPS_Debian6.topshot-4aCGqSNl.1402147882.png
[13:33:08] <jubo2>	 that's a screen grab of the top output
[13:33:21] <jubo2>	 this is causing MW to hang
[13:33:28] <jubo2>	 sometimes complains of no MySQL socket
[13:33:40] <jubo2>	 usually just hangs and squats like hell
[13:34:09] <jubo2>	 http://pingdom.com and http://uptimerobot.com are going crazy
[13:34:16] <jubo2>	 the incident count is in the 70s now
[13:34:33] <jubo2>	 Help would be appreciated. Also asked in #debian
[13:47:06] <Nemo_bis>	 jubo2: are you running MediaWiki?
[13:47:28] <jubo2>	 Nemo_bis: yes
[13:47:34] <Nemo_bis>	 jubo2: did you go through https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Performance_tuning ?
[13:48:52] <jubo2>	 No but will go
[13:49:17] <jubo2>	 the Apache2s keep on multiplying till the machine grinds to halt
[13:49:44] <jubo2>	 'tail -f access.log' shows only max few hits / s
[13:49:51] <jubo2>	 so not a DDoS issue
[13:50:03] <jubo2>	 something dunn brokeh is my guess
[15:36:45] <gbah>	 Does anyone know if there's a built-in mediawiki function equivalent to Title::makeTitleSafe, that doesn't create a Title object, and just returns the sanitised version of the user-fed title string?
[15:38:00] <gbah>	 Or am I better of just going for $t = Title::makeTitleSafe(NS_MAIN, $unsafeUserStr); $safeStr = $t->getPartialUrl();
[15:38:05] <gbah>	 better off*
[16:14:44] <Vedmaka>	 Any1 encountered SMW/Updatejob runjobs loop ?
[16:38:47] <shidi>	 My image uploads are getting a 403. Example: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~shidi/cs61a/wiki/File:Compound_statement.png
[16:39:47] <bawolff>	 shidi: Its probably a permission issue with apache vs php
[16:40:29] <shidi>	 bawolff: how would I go about debugging this?
[16:41:11] <bawolff>	 Check which user owns the file on the server. See if its readable by whatever user runs the apache process (usually www-data or apache)
[16:42:24] <shidi>	 bawolff: I know that the image gets made with permissions 600. I have to manually switch it to 644 each upload.
[16:43:10] <shidi>	 Once I chmod the permissions, the image displays correctly
[16:43:17] <bawolff>	 usually its assumed that apache and php are running with the same user credentials I think. I'm not sure if its possible to change the default umask of mediawiki.
[16:43:28] <bawolff>	 A hacky work around would be to use thumb handler
[16:43:46] <bawolff>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Thumb.php#MediaWiki_.3E.3D_1.20
[18:31:22] <Lcawte>	 !class wfGetDB
[18:31:22] <wm-bot>	 See https://doc.wikimedia.org/mediawiki-core/master/php/html/classwfGetDB.html
[18:31:39] <Lcawte>	 err. Nope. Wrong thing.
[18:46:01] <Lcawte>	 !class User | Lcawte
[18:46:02] <wm-bot>	 Lcawte: See https://doc.wikimedia.org/mediawiki-core/master/php/html/classUser.html
[19:26:24] <LuckDuck>	 Very new to using Git & Shell - So may someone explain how I install a Mediawiki skin using the two?
[19:26:51] <LuckDuck>	 I have the git URL and the command line open - Just not sure what to do now.
[19:26:57] <jackmcbarn>	 LuckDuck: what skin?
[19:27:27] <LuckDuck>	 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:DeepSea Staff on our wiki have had the hardest time getting it to work when installing from FTP.
[19:27:34] <Krenair>	 LuckDuck, do you have git installed?
[19:27:50] <Krenair>	 Or do you only have a link to a git repository?
[19:28:03] <LuckDuck>	 https://github.com/Brickimedia/DeepSea.git
[19:28:23] <Krenair>	 That doesn't answer the question..
[19:28:36] <jackmcbarn>	 LuckDuck: type "git --version"
[19:28:44] <jackmcbarn>	 do you get a version number, or an error?
[19:29:18] <LuckDuck>	 Ah, I see: git version 1.7.2.5
[19:29:27] <jackmcbarn>	 ok
[19:31:53] <LuckDuck>	 See, I understand how to "clone" the 'git', I just don't knwo how to send it directly to where it needs to go.
[19:32:00] <LuckDuck>	 -know
[19:32:30] <LuckDuck>	 Searching anything about "git" or "shell" together on the internet shows gobs of randomness.
[19:33:00] <bawolff>	 LuckDuck: It should be in a subdirectory of your extensions directory
[19:33:10] <Krenair>	 LuckDuck, change to your extensions directory
[19:33:20] <Krenair>	 then run 'git clone https://github.com/Brickimedia/DeepSea.git'
[19:33:30] <LuckDuck>	 So skins go into the extensions folder?
[19:33:36] <bawolff>	 Yes
[19:33:57] <LuckDuck>	 That may have been the problem all along.
[19:34:24] <bawolff>	 Sort of anyways, there's some disagreement on where skins actually belong
[19:35:18] <bawolff>	 After you do that, add the line require_once( "$IP/extensions/DeepSea/DeepSea.php" ); to the bottom of your LocalSettings.php
[19:36:41] <LuckDuck>	 Unfortunately, the skin isn't displaying like it had before: http://www.wockymedia.com/main/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=deepsea
[19:37:24] <bawolff>	 ugh, after looking at the code, maybe they did design it to be in the skins directory ($imgPath is relative to it)
[19:37:56] <Krenair>	 yep
[19:38:04] <Krenair>	 it attempts to download http://www.wockymedia.com/main/skins/DeepSea/deepsea/images/search-ltr.png
[19:38:08] <LuckDuck>	 bawolff: We were using the /skins directory before, and had the same results.
[19:38:30] <bawolff>	 silly developers not documenting their skins :)
[19:39:27] <LuckDuck>	 Ah, got it.
[19:40:11] <LuckDuck>	 I'll write instructions for other stupid people like me.
[19:40:12] <bawolff>	 sorry for steering you in the wrong direction initially
[19:41:04] <LuckDuck>	 That's fine! The problem we had all along was the fact that we removed DeepSea.php and friends from the DeepSea folder - We assumed it was like all the default skins.
[19:42:38] <LuckDuck>	 I'm *suppsed* to be the tech member of our group, though I guess it's kind of bad that this was my first time using Git and shell? I've really had no reason to prior, FTP and basic PHP have always worked.
[19:42:54] <LuckDuck>	 *supposed It probabley helps to spell correctly @_@
[19:43:38] <Krenair>	 (ew, ftp :p)
[19:43:55] <Krenair>	 (also ofc, ew php :D)
[19:44:29] <LuckDuck>	 Ew PHP? What do you think Mediawiki is made of? :P
[19:44:45] <bawolff>	 We are all too keenly aware of that ;)
[19:45:07] <bawolff>	 LuckDuck: Well in this case, ftp should have also been workable. github offers zip file downloads of repos
[19:45:24] <bawolff>	 but git is nice once you get used to it
[19:46:09] <Krenair>	 LuckDuck, MediaWiki developers don't necessarily like PHP but we put up with it because we don't have the resources to re-write it
[19:46:28] <bawolff>	 And nobody would be able to agree on a different language. We all agree php sucks
[19:48:00] <LuckDuck>	 If you don't mind me asking, what language (In general, non-biased) is more popular than PHP these days?
[19:48:13] <Krenair>	 Depends who you ask doesn't it?
[19:48:20] <Reedy>	 And for what purpose
[19:48:53] <LuckDuck>	 Then what other options are there out there that are better?
[19:49:42] <LuckDuck>	 I'm only aware of things like Ruby, which for me is something I don't personally prefer.
[19:49:44] <bawolff>	 I don't know. I spent 4 hours yesterday trying to make python work for something else. I'm now less of a python fan
[19:50:07] <bawolff>	 Meh, language fads come and go all the time
[19:50:21] <Reedy>	 RoR!1one1!
[19:50:22] <bawolff>	 Lots of people like using javascript on the server side for some reason
[19:50:42] <Krenair>	 LuckDuck, Based on my memory of the last discussion we had, I don't recall Ruby being particularly popular here :)
[19:51:06] <bawolff>	 But yet we use it for the browser integration tests
[19:52:44] <Krenair>	 bawolff, btw, what went wrong with your python?
[19:52:56] <bawolff>	 I don't really know
[19:53:21] <bawolff>	 I think it was actually something wrong with my package manager
[19:53:35] <bawolff>	 So possibly not even python's fault
[20:14:15] <georgebarnick>	 http://georgebarnick.com/wikibase/ lol can anyone explain that
[20:15:02] <Krenair>	 georgebarnick, check your web server error log
[20:15:08] <georgebarnick>	 Krenair: empty
[20:15:19] <Krenair>	 alternatively turn on showing exceptions, though this might be a security risk with certain errors
[20:15:31] <georgebarnick>	 idc
[20:15:41] <georgebarnick>	 it's a test wiki with nothing of importance in the server
[20:15:50] <jackmcbarn>	 georgebarnick: add $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; to your LocalSettings.php
[20:15:59] <Krenair>	 ^ that's what I was looking for. ty jackmcbarn 
[20:16:18] <georgebarnick>	 thanks
[20:17:03] <georgebarnick>	 okay so if I fix that error it's showing me, it's going to just break something else
[20:17:06] <jackmcbarn>	 georgebarnick: what version of mediawiki is that?
[20:17:11] <georgebarnick>	 1.24wmf4
[20:17:31] <georgebarnick>	 I tried REL1_23 but I'm trying to get wikibase to work and it's not
[20:17:41] <georgebarnick>	 It's the same error I've had for months across about 4 mediawiki versions
[20:17:48] <georgebarnick>	 on three different servers at that
[20:17:57] <jackmcbarn>	 georgebarnick: it looks like a problem with an extension. what extensions do you have loaded?
[20:18:05] <jackmcbarn>	 (and do the versions of them match that of mediawiki?)
[20:18:12] <georgebarnick>	 Just wikibase
[20:18:26] <georgebarnick>	 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Wikibase First topic is the error I have had for a long time with wikibase
[20:18:57] <jackmcbarn>	 georgebarnick: are you using the 1.24wmf4 version of wikibase?
[20:19:02] <georgebarnick>	 yes
[20:19:10] <georgebarnick>	 it's the submodule that's loaded with wmf4
[20:20:03] <georgebarnick>	 ironically the only time I've ever gotten wikibase to work was on mediawiki 1.21 I believe, which I was told Wikibase wasn't supported on
[20:26:56] <jackmcbarn>	 georgebarnick: did composer install run ok?
[20:27:05] <georgebarnick>	 I can't use composer on my server
[20:27:09] <jackmcbarn>	 why not?
[20:27:19] <georgebarnick>	 Because I can't install node.js
[20:27:33] <georgebarnick>	 it's just something that is impossible to do on the server because I bought a cheap one
[20:27:40] <georgebarnick>	 plus I think composer is dumb
[20:28:05] <bawolff>	 Wait. Composer requires node.js
[20:28:11] <jackmcbarn>	 wikibase looks like it needs composer
[20:28:23] <georgebarnick>	 it shouldn't
[20:28:33] <jackmcbarn>	 why not?
[20:28:34] <georgebarnick>	 I should be able to manually download any dependencies via git
[20:28:38] <bawolff>	 A package manager for php files requires support of a different language!?
[20:28:47] <georgebarnick>	 bawolff: yup
[20:28:50] <jackmcbarn>	 it doesn't look like it
[20:28:53] <jackmcbarn>	 why do you think it needs node?
[20:29:21] <georgebarnick>	 woops getting my things mixed up
[20:29:40] <georgebarnick>	 it's not that I can't install node (that's parsoid that requires node), I can't install anything extra though
[20:30:03] <georgebarnick>	 composer needs me to install something with php, but I can't because my server restricts me from doing that
[20:30:08] <georgebarnick>	 I don't have root permission on it
[20:30:09] <jackmcbarn>	 did you try it?
[20:30:15] <georgebarnick>	 yes
[20:30:18] <jackmcbarn>	 what error does it give?
[20:30:21] <georgebarnick>	 it's something that my server doesn't allow
[20:30:26] <bawolff>	 Often you can get around that sort of thing, it just gets complicated
[20:30:30] <georgebarnick>	 The fact that it doesn't have write access to anything in /etc
[20:30:46] <jackmcbarn>	 what did it try to write in /etc?
[20:30:51] <bawolff>	 e.g. by setting --prefix to the install script
[20:30:51] <jackmcbarn>	 can you post exactly what it output?
[20:30:52] <georgebarnick>	 installing composer
[20:31:14] <georgebarnick>	 I'm not going to attempt to install it now, it's simply something I can't do on a $4 server
[20:31:25] <jackmcbarn>	 it doesn't really "install"
[20:31:39] <jackmcbarn>	 it just puts stuff wherever
[20:31:58] <jackmcbarn>	 it tries to write to the current directory if you don't tell it where to write to
[20:32:14] <georgebarnick>	 it's a program on the server (hence why you can run "composer blah"), and I can't install programs
[20:32:25] <jackmcbarn>	 you don't have to run it like that
[20:32:28] <georgebarnick>	 the installation command is "curl -sS https://getcomposer.org/installer | php -- --install-dir=bin" thus it's an install
[20:32:55] <jackmcbarn>	 you can put in a directory you own
[20:32:57] <jackmcbarn>	 then it will work
[20:33:53] <jackmcbarn>	 from the Wikibase directory, run "curl -sS https://getcomposer.org/installer | php" and then "php composer.phar install"
[20:33:56] <jackmcbarn>	 that should work just fine
[20:34:57] <georgebarnick>	 those installation instructions give an even different error
[20:35:09] <jackmcbarn>	 what error now?
[20:35:16] <jackmcbarn>	 and was it from the first or second command?
[20:35:28] <georgebarnick>	 http://pastebin.com/XiH0qtAw
[20:35:57] <jackmcbarn>	 georgebarnick: you're in the wrong directory
[20:36:06] <jackmcbarn>	 move composer.phar to the Wikibase directory, then rerun the second command
[20:36:44] <jackmcbarn>	 and make sure you run it with the cli version of php, like it says
[20:37:50] <jackmcbarn>	 so if your server makes you, use php-cli instead of php
[20:38:12] <jackmcbarn>	 or if you don't have that, do php -d register_argc_argv=1 "./composer.phar" install
[20:38:45] <georgebarnick>	 so installing this with composer makes it impossible for me to commit changes unlike if it were git-based
[20:38:49] <georgebarnick>	 am I right?
[20:40:40] <jackmcbarn>	 i'm not sure how composer and git interact. you'll definitely be able to commit changes to wikibase itself though
[20:41:05] <georgebarnick>	 And how can this be updated frequently
[20:41:21] <jackmcbarn>	 i don't know all of the details about how composer works
[20:41:40] <georgebarnick>	 I don't like composer at all
[20:41:45] <georgebarnick>	 It's one more thing to have to do
[20:41:51] <jackmcbarn>	 it's what wikibase needs though
[20:42:01] <georgebarnick>	 I could imagine it doesn't NEED it
[20:42:24] <jackmcbarn>	 if you want to go and set up all the dependencies yourself, you can, bu tthen we can't really help if things don't work, because we don't know if the dependencies are right
[20:42:30] <georgebarnick>	 if wmde people weren't so attached to it for some reason, all of the dependencies could be based in git with simple installation instructions on mediawiki.org
[21:10:27] <Amgine>	 georgebarnick: then mediawiki would need to track all the dependencies. Composer means no one needs to track the dependencies.
[21:14:57] <georgebarnick>	 http://data.brickimedia.org/wiki/Q2 - so is there a way I can make wikibase not wikimedia-specific by changing the "Wikipedia pages linked to this item" section?
[21:15:53] <Lcawte>	 Have you not realised that there is often little consideration for third party sites in tools developed for WMF sites. UploadWizard was full of Commons related messages for ages...
[21:16:16] <bawolff>	 georgebarnick: Well there is the MediaWiki:wikibase-sitelinks-wikipedia - but that's still looking for wikipedia. Perhaps there's a config somewhere
[21:16:33] <bawolff>	 Lcawte: Well upload wizard is kind of the more extreme edge of that
[21:16:40] <bawolff>	 Not as bad as PageCuration though
[21:16:40] <georgebarnick>	 Lcawte: it still is lol
[21:16:59] <jackmcbarn>	 georgebarnick: you're using SMW and wikidata together?
[21:17:02] <bawolff>	 UploadWizard is trying to be specific to commons policy around copyright
[21:17:06] <georgebarnick>	 jackmcbarn: not for long
[21:17:24] <georgebarnick>	 SMW is enabled globally on Brickimedia
[21:17:59] <Lcawte>	 UploadWizard could be great for third party sites as well, if the messages weren't WMF specific :(
[21:18:42] <Amgine>	 <thinks there are more-specialized media scripts than Mediawiki>
[21:20:36] <georgebarnick>	 Wikidata has the "Wikipedia pages linked to this item" and a bunch of other similar sections (for sister sites). If they have it so they can add another section for each sister site, there's got to be a relatively simple configuration for it
[21:20:52] * georgebarnick hopes it isn't SiteMatrix
[21:21:18] <bawolff>	 Probably not Special:SiteMatrix
[21:21:29] <bawolff>	 Probably something to do with the "Sites" table they introduced
[21:22:49] <georgebarnick>	 bawolff: Can I have a link to info on setting up the sites table?
[21:23:01] <georgebarnick>	 if such info exists
[21:23:12] <bawolff>	 Umm, hmm. I just remember there was a thread on wikitech-l when it was introduced
[21:23:16] * bawolff doesn't know
[21:23:36] <georgebarnick>	 I've heard of it myself. I'll try to find something
[21:25:27] <bawolff>	 Looks like it defaults to wikipedia if not set up in repo/includes/specials/SpecialItemByTitle.php
[21:49:03] <georgebarnick>	 bawolff: Alright, I just have to find out where I set the specifics about the site up
[21:51:31] <bawolff>	 georgebarnick: Hmm, I wonder if you just add things to the db by hand
[21:51:59] <georgebarnick>	 if so I'd be able to do that, as long as I had instructions on column names and whatnot
[21:53:13] <bawolff>	 grepping suggests the table is totally unused in core
[21:53:22] <bawolff>	 but it appears to be fulled out on wmf wikis
[21:53:44] <georgebarnick>	 weird
[21:56:00] <georgebarnick>	 If I knew how to at least make it not think "List of values is complete." then I'd make some dirty JS hack to change "Wikipedia" to "Brickipedia" front-end
[21:56:12] <georgebarnick>	 but it says "List of values is complete." so nobody can add brickipedia page names anyways
[21:57:23] <bawolff>	 Well anywhere it says "Wikipedia" can probably be changed by mediawiki namespace message
[21:57:31] <bawolff>	 just use ?uselang=qqx to find out which one
[21:57:45] <georgebarnick>	 yeah
[21:57:47] <georgebarnick>	 good point
[21:58:05] <georgebarnick>	 but I still need to figure out how to add en.brickimedia.org to the sites table or whatever
[22:00:07] <bawolff>	 There must be maintinance script somewhere as there is serialized php data in that table
[22:00:18] <georgebarnick>	 since I'm curious, how does pywikibot react to a wikibase wiki?
[22:00:30] <georgebarnick>	 like does it just stack up with errors or what?
[22:00:39] * georgebarnick is too lazy to test it himself
[22:00:43] <bawolff>	 e.g. https://dpaste.de/60vy/raw
[22:01:17] <georgebarnick>	 :O
[22:01:30] <georgebarnick>	 Now I know what the columns' data should look like
[22:01:44] <georgebarnick>	 I could manually enter this into the database now, right?
[22:03:12] <georgebarnick>	 The "site_type" column looks interesting. I'm curious what other supported values there are
[22:10:02] <Lcawte>	 !class OutputPage | Lcawte
[22:10:02] <wm-bot>	 Lcawte: See https://doc.wikimedia.org/mediawiki-core/master/php/html/classOutputPage.html
[22:46:21] <Moonlightning>	 If I want to use some of the templates from Wikipedia, like the ones in Category:Internal_link_templates and Category:Wikipedia_metatemplates, but obviously not those like the ones in Category:Navigational_boxes…
[22:46:25] <Moonlightning>	 What's the best way to do that?
[22:46:36] * Moonlightning has found that copypasting the code of each template is /not/ a good idea.
[22:46:57] <bawolff>	 !wptemplates
[22:46:57] <wm-bot>	 To copy templates from Wikipedia, use Special:Export and check the "Include templates" option to get all the sub-templates, then upload the file with Special:Import on your wiki. You'll also likely have to install the ParserFunctions extension, Scribunto extension and install/enable HTML tidy. You also might need some CSS from Wikipedia's Common.css. You'll also need a lot of...
[23:08:09] <jackmcbarn>	 Moonlightning: is your wiki licensed under cc-by-sa?
[23:08:52] <Moonlightning>	 Mmm. Haven't made that decision yet.
[23:08:58] <Moonlightning>	 It probably will be, though.
[23:09:25] <jackmcbarn>	 Moonlightning: it has to be for you to be allowed to use anything from wikipedia
[23:09:38] * Moonlightning nods.
[23:11:07] <jackmcbarn>	 Moonlightning: also, a lot of things on wikipedia (especially modules) use features that aren't in the latest stable release, so you'd either have to use an unstable version of mediawiki or tweak them all to work with the older version
[23:21:02] <Moonlightning>	 Bleh.
[23:21:31] <greg-g>	 constantly moving target
[23:21:50] <greg-g>	 we release new versions of mediawiki on the wikipedias (et al) every week
[23:24:08] <Moonlightning>	 Is there a reason they don't come with MediaWiki? I mean, they seem /very/ useful.
[23:25:14] <bawolff>	 Partially historic reasons, partially because templates are developed by enwikipedia, which is somewhat of a separate group from mediawiki devs
[23:25:33] <Krenair>	 I doubt anything from enwiki will pass MediaWiki code review, ever
[23:25:44] <jackmcbarn>	 Krenair: Module:HtmlBuilder did
[23:25:52] <bawolff>	 And often the templates are enwiki specific, so its hard to disentagle the generic stuff from the non-generic stuff
[23:26:06] <jackmcbarn>	 also, it's under a different license, which precludes inclulding them
[23:26:31] <Krenair>	 jackmcbarn, not familiar with that, but okay
[23:29:23] <greg-g>	 all those reasons and probably more :)
[23:34:27] <bawolff>	 Nobody involved with mediawiki actually likes looking at templates ;)
[23:35:36] <Moonlightning>	 …well. While I'm asking, might as well…
[23:35:47] <Moonlightning>	 What's the proper way to attribute a template taken from e.g. Wikipedia?
[23:36:58] <bawolff>	 <noinclude>Template from <url> licensed under cc-by-sa by Wikipedians</noinclude?
[23:37:00] <bawolff>	 I guess
[23:37:08] <bawolff>	 maybe include a url in the edit summary as well
[23:39:10] <greg-g>	 must include url to template on wp
[23:39:14] <greg-g>	 per CC BY SA :)
[23:40:26] <greg-g>	 it's reasonable to the medium to include the author(s) ("Wikipedia" in this case is usually fine), url where it came from, title, name of license, and url to license.
[23:40:42] <greg-g>	 the last 3 are implicit if your wiki is setup correctly
[23:41:07] <Moonlightning>	 Or I could just use the licensed-under template. Right? :3
[23:42:55] <jackmcbarn>	 Moonlightning: no, you need the attribution
[23:42:59] <jackmcbarn>	 that's the by- part of the license