[19:23:26] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q905 [19:25:04] They keep adding P26 (spouse) to Kafka, who's never been married. :( [19:55:20] Rodejong: is there a property like 'partner'? [19:55:40] yes, and that is in use [19:55:46] ha [20:04:27] Rodejong: novalue looks correct to me if they were never married [20:06:06] (see https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Statements#Unknown_or_no_values) [20:07:09] yeah, but why add spouse when he never married [20:07:37] to state that we know that he never married [20:07:39] Then we should have one where it says Marriage(s) [20:07:54] answer No [20:08:50] but "no value" is nothing to show in a infobox [20:09:00] https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Kafka [20:09:34] Ægtefælle ingen værdi [20:09:34] Spouse No value [20:10:22] We should first add such statement, when there is something we can write in [20:10:51] if the danish wikipedia doesn't want to show that, someone should figure out how to not display anything if it's set to novalue, removing the data in wikidata isn't the right thing to do [20:11:53] Rodejong: that's, again, a lua problem [20:12:33] your lua module should just says that nothing should show up in the infobox if the value is "no value" on Wikidata for spouses [20:13:08] But why add it in the first place? I don't see the logic [20:13:26] because we *know* he never married [20:13:30] Like saying. "Portugues citizen" [20:13:31] which is a data [20:13:50] We know he wasn't a portugues [20:13:59] He wasn't Dutch either [20:14:15] I don't see the logic in that [20:14:29] He has been engaged [20:15:29] I know for a fact that he never became 500 years old, but should we make a statement about it? Where do we draw a line in that? [20:15:46] the lack of a statement doesn't mean that there is no valid statement, if a person has no spouse property it could mean they never married, or it could mean that nobody has yet entered that data [20:16:02] I believe that we only should create statements of something that ''is'', not of ''was not'' [20:16:21] well, you can believe that, of course [20:16:30] but the Wikidata policy isn't that [20:16:41] si if you want to change the way things are done [20:16:52] you need to take it up to the community [20:17:12] Like I said. A statement of ''marital state'' would be better [20:17:24] answer, married, unmarried [20:17:32] there's no reason to say he's not portuguese or dutch because we already have statements about his citizenship [20:17:43] Rodejong: I'm not convinced at all [20:17:52] but the right way is to propose the property [20:18:03] and try to justify its creation [20:18:17] Harmonia_Amanda: is the current policy written down somewhere? because we clearly don’t put spouse statements on, say, buildings or countries [20:18:24] likewise, if we know that someone didn't live to be 500 years old but don't know when they died, we can always say that the date of death exists but is unknown [20:18:51] is it class-based? because Q5 can have spouses? [20:18:58] I would say so [20:19:06] there's no reason to expect a building to ever have a spouse [20:19:14] WikidataFacts: probably, but I'm coming down from a meltdown, so don't expect anything from me tonight [20:19:20] an adult human is highly likely to have one (whether or not they're notable is another question) [20:19:47] I'm not able to search it [20:20:22] I'm just here on IRC to not spiral again in destructive stimming [20:20:31] okay [20:20:51] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Statements#Unknown_or_no_values says “depending on the property, these data values still provide important information…”, which sounds reasonable [20:20:57] Im just looking for a way to say : "Stayed unmarried" [20:21:11] Rodejong: spouse : novalue [20:21:23] As soon as we have a card, people want to write in it [20:21:25] that's exactly the way to say that [20:21:37] If you know LUA [20:21:41] We don't [20:22:14] well, call for lua help in the French Scribunto project for example [20:22:43] YEah, and then they will install a large LUA based system, none of us can work with. [20:22:45] many French English-speaking lua coders are there [20:22:54] I understand that [20:23:03] But I discussed it with our team [20:23:07] have someone teach you lua [20:23:10] They donøt want that [20:23:19] don't* [20:24:52] So I need to find ways to do it with [20:25:16] pick a lua MOOC? [20:25:31] And there are a lot of wiki's that will never go over to Wikidata like this. It's too complicated. [20:25:49] use the already existing modules [20:26:16] how? [20:26:25] ask for a Foundation grant to have someone teaching lua to your community [20:26:46] You mean WM Danmark? [20:26:49] or [20:26:55] well, go to a Wikipedia who already does what you want, copy and adapt? [20:27:19] I was the one who created Wikidata template on fr:Wikinews [20:27:32] and that was way before I knew anything about lua [20:27:46] I just copy-pasted and adapted already existing templates [20:28:10] from? [20:28:28] all the problem you seems to have have already been resolved on the French Wikipedia [20:28:45] from enwiki and frwiki [20:29:59] I had to adapt many things because the templates used on frWikinews are way different from those used on frWP [20:30:12] for things like dates or geolocalisation [20:31:13] and I managed, while I'm an historian, don't have any background in coding, and didn't even understand the first thing about lua, that I'd never even read before trying to use it on Wikinews [20:31:25] so, no, I don't understand you at all [20:31:32] That's the point. They say that it is unflexible, and no one knows how to adapt them. [20:32:02] or maintain them [20:32:04] lua is the farthest thing from inflexible [20:32:12] but hey, as you want [20:32:23] not me [20:32:31] I want many things [20:32:39] but they are conservative [20:32:52] Everything is plain and simple [20:32:56] but if you think we'll change good existing data because people don't want to make the effort of asking for help [20:33:04] I doubt you will succeed [20:33:18] Harmonia_Amanda: Today I came across http://www.the-athenaeum.org/member/profile.php?memberID=61125 [20:33:26] Isn't that the person you blocked recently? [20:33:39] yep [20:33:49] yes [20:33:56] multichill: sockpuppetry [20:34:11] I'm still hesitating to just rollback all his contributions [20:34:17] there were good ones [20:34:22] but there are so many wrongs [20:34:42] and nobody will have the time to filter all contribs [20:39:31] As for novalue, it all depends on the domain. Take for example https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q28146933 , here it makes sense because most paintings are in that catalog [20:40:17] https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q905&diff=next&oldid=430365145 [20:40:23] Why is that wrong then? [20:40:31] It says "Unmarried" [20:42:03] it violates the “type: fictional character or person” constraint on spouse (P26) [20:42:11] “unmarried” is not a person [20:42:26] hmmm [20:42:28] ok [20:43:29] I give up. It's to difficlt for my old brain [20:48:36] another day, I would try to explain, but my head is jelly, so, not this evening [20:53:49] No worries. [20:54:04] But I found a way. Just popped up [20:54:22] {{#if: {{#property:P26|novalue}}|unmarried | }} [20:54:38] That I didn't think of that before [20:54:49] https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Kafka [21:01:08] https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/WsIjPeIr/ [21:25:21] Ehm... https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Russian_Rocky [23:48:48] Hello, I would like to contribute to wikidata. Do I need to clone another repository or is it the same as wiki core? :)