[09:53:50] Hello! So, I'm trying to make a bot accepted, but it seems that my request does not get attention. I've already described the problem, shared the code and performed a test run. But nothing happens :( Is that a common? (here the request: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Bot/ItalianSchoolsBot) [09:55:45] Interest fluctuates, might be interesting to include these in the newsletter as well [09:59:38] Got it. Isn't there a kind of admin to inform? [10:04:17] You can ask a bureaucrat, but they will not get in action without consensus. [10:07:08] Loading data seems than I thought :) [10:08:24] The problem is that I'm not receiving comments about the project. Anyway, the only way seems waiting :) [10:30:42] sjoerddebruin: I looked into https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193669, and I think the task is unrelated to constraint scopes – the problem is a “bad-parameters” result in the reference, which we hide by default [10:30:52] do you mind if I mostly rewrite the task title and description? :) [10:42:47] Lucas_WMDE: sure, I thought that was the logical cause... :P [11:05:29] sjoerddebruin: okay, thanks :D [11:05:43] (sorry for the late response, was afk) [11:06:10] No problem :P [11:37:47] Floatingpurr: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q52449431 has "Via De Gasperi18, 20050 Correzzana" - I'm guessing it should be " 18" with a space but not sure if a bot issue or an error in the original data :) [11:41:38] Also, "Primary School" > "primary school" [11:41:55] Oh, yeah, that too :) [11:42:39] Seems generally decent, commented with support, but you should add more test items I think [12:26:46] PROBLEM - wikidata.org dispatch lag is higher than 300s on www.wikidata.org is CRITICAL: HTTP CRITICAL: HTTP/1.1 200 OK - pattern not found - 1962 bytes in 0.109 second response time [12:27:07] *SIGH* [12:28:41] the median pass timing is exploding [12:28:50] Well there is a spike http://wikidata.wikiscan.org/gimg.php?type=edits&date=6&size=big [12:29:44] hm :/ [12:31:02] I really wonder what to do here… we could further raise the resources for dispatching [12:31:14] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Oliviervd is causing the spike [12:31:24] I think... [12:32:28] but they are mostly editing items w/o any subscribed wikis [12:32:28] But yeah the system seems highly sensitive [12:32:34] this edits are very cheap to dispatch [12:32:42] * thes [12:32:42] e [12:33:25] Oh, I see it now: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges?hidebots=1&hidecategorization=1&tagfilter=OAuth+CID%3A+378&limit=500&days=1&damaging__likelybad_color=c4&damaging__verylikelybad_color=c5&urlversion=2 [12:34:30] quickstatements being so fast is definitely a problem [12:34:52] Yeah, but the spike on Widar14 is more noticeable https://grafana.wikimedia.org/dashboard/db/wikidata-edits?refresh=1m&panelId=2&fullscreen&orgId=1 [12:35:37] they both seem to be high now though [12:36:56] RECOVERY - wikidata.org dispatch lag is higher than 300s on www.wikidata.org is OK: HTTP OK: HTTP/1.1 200 OK - 1951 bytes in 0.104 second response time [12:38:20] Is Magnus is Barcelona in a few weeks? [12:40:29] No idea [13:17:05] Lydia_WMDE: I opened https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193683 yesterday; has this been discussed at some point? [13:44:45] abian: not that I'm aware of [13:45:05] and I'm not sure if we really should spend time on it compared to all the other things we need to get done tbh [13:45:25] is there anything concrete that becomes hard or impossible because of it? [13:50:07] No problem, Lydia_WMDE, only suggesting :) [13:50:15] abian: of course :D [13:50:16] Hmm... maybe only that this can be also criticized or pointed out from outside [13:50:24] Can anyone here confirm which branch of Wikibase works with mediawiki 1.30 ? [13:50:26] I assume, or hope, this isn't one of the reasons not to appear in the LOD Cloud diagram [13:50:32] abian: but if there is more to it then please say so - i don't want to miss important stuff obviously [13:51:01] abian: I doubt it tbh but Lucas is waiting for the form to fill out and then we'll hopefully see [13:51:49] reosarevok: unfortunately, there is a problem with original data :( [13:52:11] Well, then we're still claiming what they claim, so that's OK I think [13:53:27] sjoerddebruin: you mean "Primary School" in the item description? [13:54:17] reosarevok: the problem with more test items it's that the bot has some limitation in number of edits [13:54:47] Yeah, English descriptions should be standard English, and "primary school" is a common noun so lowercase [13:55:21] Hmm. It does? Is it the way this bot is built specifically or is this some new limiting? I don't remember hitting that :/ [14:02:04] Lydia_WMDE: Perfect :) [14:02:30] It's sad they didn't contact Wikidata nor pointed out its current issues, we could easily think that they're not interested in including Wikidata at all... [14:02:55] abian: yeah - especially as i've contacted them in the past to get it sorted [14:02:56] But we don't have that bad thoughts :) [14:03:03] Oops :( [14:03:11] * Lydia_WMDE keeps fingers crossed it's working out this time [14:27:20] reosarevok: I'm building the bot with Wikidataintegrator. After few inserts I get an error related to writing limitations [14:27:46] Oh, ok, then I dunno - I've only used pywikibot [14:27:50] Maybe you're going too fast? [14:28:19] Oh [14:28:29] "New users may hit rate limits (of 8 edits per minute) when editing or creating items. Autoconfirmed users, (an account with at least 4 days of age and at least 50 edits)" [14:28:44] (from https://github.com/SuLab/WikidataIntegrator) [14:29:11] Maybe if you add a wait between items that'll let you do a longer run :) [14:29:29] I see [14:29:57] It's extremely complex doing this kind of stuff [14:30:08] : ) [14:30:45] (I mean: starting working with bots) [15:09:56] reosarevok: updated to lower case school types in description ;) [15:51:56] reosarevok: thanks for your support. 50 items loaded : )))) [15:52:06] np :) [15:53:08] Floatingpurr: give it a few days now (can take up to a week sometimes, it seems to really depend also on how much time the people who deal with the bot reviewing are) [15:53:27] If after a week you have no reaction, then we can poke people a bit [15:53:34] But hopefully you will [15:54:39] Ok, thank you once again : ) [16:24:46] Ehm is this preferred? https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q19198&curid=22326&diff=673682601&oldid=665768470 [16:25:20] I would expect not, one specifies the kind of hanging [16:25:49] Suicide is already indicated by https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1196, it seems [16:25:56] But I would prefer the most specific one... [16:27:06] Hmm [16:27:28] In that case, it might make sense to have them different so you can search for all deaths by hanging and then choose to filter them by suicide [16:27:35] But then there should be a discussion for this [16:27:41] Is there no WikiProject Death or something? :p [16:28:19] Hmm, I see there's one in enwiki but not in wd [16:28:24] Maybe time to change that? [16:28:52] * reosarevok has no time for that at the moment but we really need more wikiprojects or similar "guidelines" for how to do stuff [16:43:20] +1 to more wikiprojects [17:01:58] Wikiprojects are good but also risky, they need active members commited to keep their pages updated and to watch the corresponding talk pages [17:04:29] In many Wikipedias there are sadly dozens of inactive wikiprojects with obsolete information that confuses newcomers [17:07:50] abian: I think the main thing with WD is that it really needs guidelines on how to do specific things [17:08:40] I don't care too much if a Wikipedia article is formatted a bit different than another, but if half of the users enter band members as "part of: band" and half as "member of: band" then it's a mess to query [17:09:30] (that's the latest example I found, but there's many of those - inception vs start time, for example) [17:10:11] Sure, I agree with you [17:10:54] I'd expect a general set of guidelines shouldn't need changing that often [17:11:49] (I'm in charge of changing guidelines in MusicBrainz, so I know they do need changing sometimes, but still - a somewhat dead wikiproject is more likely to be useful than no guidance at all, and if someone does something wrong because a project is outdated then we can figure out and update it) [17:12:08] T140131 might also help with that… [17:12:09] T140131: Show text from Wikidata usage instructions property (P2559) when auto-suggesting properties or items - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140131 [17:12:27] Lucas_WMDE: to some degree, but not necessarily enough [17:12:39] "member of" and "part of" for example are both very wide [17:12:40] yeah, you definitely need a place for a more detailed explanation [17:12:41] Not only in suggestions, also after selection [17:12:51] with {{St}} or {{C}} templates, etc. [17:12:52] 10[4] 1010https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Template:Statement - Redirección desde 10https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Template:St?redirect=no13 => [17:12:55] 10[5] 1010https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Template:Claim - Redirección desde 10https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Template:C?redirect=no [17:13:01] People don't read descriptions, would they read instructions.... [17:13:05] I'd expect each particular per-field use won't actually fit in the instructions :) [17:13:12] Guides are good; however, if they aren't linked/known by newcomers, the don't have a great impact [17:13:32] True :) [17:13:33] I think this more like an UI issue [17:14:05] I think it's both [17:15:03] I'd like to see something like a property for the "painting" item, "schema guidelines" or whatnot, and then the UI would know to show that when editing something that is P31 painting [17:15:33] UI without any organization underneath only goes so far, and organization without visibility doesn't get used :) [17:18:19] :) [17:18:35] Yes, but let's think about the example of labels, descriptions and aliases, which already have well-defined guidelines [17:19:05] Newcomers don't know these guidelines, and they aren't linked from item pages, so users, in good faith, change "thing" → "Thing" massively... and we can't reach all users to tell them those guidelines exist, UI should inform about it in time [17:20:09] Lucas_WMDE: "Love" token, thanks for noticing <3 [17:22:47] At least we know what they should be so more experienced users know what to fix them to though :) [17:23:22] Yeah, you're right :) [17:29:56] About including quick models with expected properties when creating items (suggestion)... T170696 [17:29:56] T170696: Allow adding more labels, descriptions, and statements directly on Special:NewItem - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T170696 [17:47:24] isn't it appropriate to set 'date of death' to 'no value' when a person is still alive? [17:53:33] It wouldn't be wrong; however, I think it's better to reserve the "no value" for cases in which that value, "no value", will be true forever [17:54:06] In this case, we can be sure that the "no value" will be wrong at some point in the future [17:54:19] frickel: in theory, yes, in practice, since there is data about a lot of living people in Wikidata, having no date of death already implies the person is alive, so it is redundant [17:54:46] also, "no value" may mean the person (or entity) is immortal [17:56:26] Oops [18:22:25] Hm, would also have some impact on my "might be dead list" [19:49:13] it looks like there is some trash data hanging around https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q2105758&oldid=630350590 [19:49:14] possible reason: the item was merged and the merged was reverted 3 years later, so any cleanup on items using the delete property would have missed it... [19:50:54] which create quite a mess for tools developers https://www.wikidata.org/w/api.php?action=wbgetentities&ids=Q2105758&props=claims&format=json -> no datatype, weird non-capitalized claim id [19:51:32] should I open a ticket, or is this already an identified problem? [20:38:21] maxlath[m]: Opening a ticket can be a good idea :) [20:39:12] It will be closed if it's a duplicate, that's all [20:40:03] How's Inventaire going? [20:41:19] abian: good, the team doubled in size this year! we are now 2 full time ^^ [20:41:46] Haha, success! :D [20:42:44] many improvements in the project https://wiki.inventaire.io/wiki/News but not that many visible from the user point of view I'm afraid, hopefully that should come in the coming months with some major UI rewrite to come [20:45:05] Awesome :) [20:45:50] How are you dealing with the confusion between books and editions? [20:47:02] How's data quality in Wikidata in that sense? [20:51:16] too many works with editions properties and vice versa, so we have to ignore Wikidata editions unfortunately [20:53:28] it is still not set in WikiProject_Books if there should be distinct works and editions items in all the cases (including when there is only one edition), or if having both on a single item is acceptable :/ [20:54:02] (issue created: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193802) [20:57:07] :/