[00:03:18] addshore (or other Wikibase devs!) reviews of this proposed schema addition to Wikibase Client would be very much appreciated: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase/+/465547/ [04:21:15] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q57254039 ok ? [04:42:27] "ok" how? [04:47:20] I never know if I use the right properties [04:49:30] andre__, especially for date [05:23:07] RECOVERY - High lag on wdqs1003 is OK: (C)3600 ge (W)1200 ge 1173 https://grafana.wikimedia.org/dashboard/db/wikidata-query-service?orgId=1&panelId=8&fullscreen [07:43:17] PROBLEM - High lag on wdqs1003 is CRITICAL: 3656 ge 3600 https://grafana.wikimedia.org/dashboard/db/wikidata-query-service?orgId=1&panelId=8&fullscreen [08:12:50] niedzielski: I left a review [08:23:18] Lydia_WMDE: are you around? I'm trying to work out whether it's intentional that wikis seem to never get unsubscribed from items even after sitelinks are removed and don't know who to ask or where to ask [08:27:39] it would be nice if the "contact the development team" page were a way to contact the development team, but it seems nobody checks there any more and topics often just get archived with no response :( [08:49:43] D: [08:49:50] nikki: lydia is still away afaik [08:51:24] bah [08:54:17] where are you seeing that things stay subscribed? [08:58:34] both in the api (wblistsubscribers or whatever it's called) and on the "page information" page [08:59:08] hmmmm [08:59:22] e.g. https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q22941194&action=info lists svwiki even though the sitelink was removed in 2016 and the disambiguation page on svwiki replaced with an actual article [08:59:26] afaik it is not intentional, Amir1 touched that sort of stuff most recently afaik [08:59:52] aaah, well nikki there can be other pages on svwiki that use the data, even if a page is not linked as a sitelink [09:00:23] and in that case it should still show up there [09:00:51] but I keep seeing this happening over and over, why would svwiki be using wikidata's disambiguation items on other pages? [09:01:12] thats a good question, and I might be able to look! [09:01:16] got a meeting now though D: [09:01:20] ok :) [09:05:09] I'm trying to work it out because I've been working on a script that will run on the delete pages and check whether items are being used, because we keep having problems with admins deleting items that are actually still being used without realising [09:08:40] and when testing it I keep finding subscribed wikis which don't appear to actually be using the item [09:36:49] nikki: okay! [09:37:04] if you link me to a specific case then i can give it a check :) [09:38:08] the one above? :P [09:38:29] both the svwiki and cebwiki sitelinks have been removed, both wikis are still subscribed [09:39:40] right, let me have a look [10:32:03] nikki: I apologize for the lack of reaction on the page. I'm following it, but depending on the question and the context, finding the right answer can take some time. [10:40:50] Auregann_WMDE: oh, there you are! last week I was complaining that the people evaluating the monolingual text languages don't follow wikidata's own criteria for what should be allowed and you said there was a ticket for that and that you were going to find it... and then you vanished [10:41:44] I'm still interested in knowing which ticket that was [10:42:51] Hi everyone. [10:44:06] So I couldn't find a global ticket, there is one that is about languages/representations for Lexicographical Data https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T195740 [10:45:38] But if we want a discussion about the evaluation of languages by LangCom, I believe this should come from a community decision. If the community is not satisfied about the feedback from LangCom, you should address this feedback and propose other solutions. [10:46:13] The dev team will be happy to discuss other solutions, that involve selecting new languages in a way or another (we can't accept them all without making sure that it makes sense) [10:47:16] I've been thinking about creating a work group within the Wikidata community, with people skilled in languages, but that's not something I can decide or enforce. [10:48:39] https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/qb5g7Ion/ [10:48:40] LangCom is also composed by volunteers btw, and I can't really go to them and tell them they are doing all wrong. I agree though that their process is very untransparent and once we sent a request, even we have no idea what's the status of it. [10:48:43] nikki: ^^ [10:51:52] nikki: did you file a ticket for this issue yet? [10:52:05] no [10:52:16] I can do if you want [10:52:23] (or you can, I don't mind) [10:52:34] nikki: yes it sounds like it needs one [10:52:50] if you create it I'll add some details a bit later :) [10:55:21] Auregann_WMDE: the existing criteria were written by someone working for wmde because the community were frustrated by the lack of information about how to request missing languages and which ones are acceptable [10:56:06] the obvious solution would be for wmde to ask langcom to evaulate the requests according to our criteria [10:57:02] (I get the feeling that most langcom members know very little about wikidata, so they probably don't understand that we intentionally want more inclusive criteria for monolingual text) [10:59:03] and if they're not willing to do that, then the monolingual text datatype is not suitable to our needs [11:00:56] like I said, the development team or the chapter cannot enforce such a decision on a volunteer group [11:01:07] the discussions need to happen within the community [11:02:10] I don't understand what the point of the community discussing it is, if the community says "we want this" but the tickets are ignored or rejected because langcom don't accept it [11:05:09] if we can't ask langcom to use our criteria because they're a volunteer group, then maybe we shouldn't be asking them for advice at all [11:05:41] the choice of going through LangCom has been maid at the beginning because we wanted the decision to be reviewed by a group of experienced people. We didn't want to automatically accept every requests from the community, because we don't necessarily have the expertise to judge if a language is relevant or not for Wikidata. As said, we are open to discuss another solution, like a review by a group within the community. [11:06:16] nikki: congrats, your bot is the second top editor on Wikidata for September, behind QuickStatementsBot :D [11:06:23] analytics team just made these stats available: https://stats.wikimedia.org/v2/#/wikidata.org/contributing/top-editors/normal|table|1-Month|~total [11:06:52] (sorry to interrupt the more important discussion) [11:13:49] Auregann_WMDE: ok, so what would be the next step? if I start a discussion on project chat and the outcome is that we don't want langcom to evaluate the requests, will that be enough? [11:15:43] I don't understand why wmde can't at least *ask* langcom if they'll use our criteria though, they might be happy to [11:15:58] I would ask but I'm just some random editor, why would they listen to me [11:16:23] nikki: yes, that would be a very good start :) [12:48:50] addshore: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T206857 [12:49:20] lucaswerkmeister: hah, I'm not surprised. my poor bot has been editing furiously for months and still isn't done [12:50:52] (limited to one edit a second, as much as I'd like to edit faster :P) [12:53:37] lucaswerkmeister: also not related to wikidata but earlier I saw your tweet from the other day about the curly quotes, I also assumed you were typing on a mac keyboard when I saw you do it at some point :P [12:59:42] nikki: thanks [13:06:46] RECOVERY - High lag on wdqs1003 is OK: (C)3600 ge (W)1200 ge 1048 https://grafana.wikimedia.org/dashboard/db/wikidata-query-service?orgId=1&panelId=8&fullscreen [13:28:36] Thank you addshore !! [13:53:28] nikki: :D [13:59:56] lucaswerkmeister: are you not able to type things like æ and ð with the neo layout, or am I just not seeing them? [14:00:10] um [14:00:18] I can type æ as Compose+a+e [14:00:25] not sure about the other one [14:00:34] but when would you expect me to type them?? :D [14:00:53] I guess if you have a compose key, compose+d+h works [14:01:13] when typing norwegian and icelandic, obviously! :D [14:01:20] yup, ð works [14:01:24] so does þ (th) [14:02:20] I think my most common use of the compose key is to make × (2× x) [14:03:40] I keep forgetting I have the compose key, since almost everything I want is available via some altgr combination [14:06:03] but not the low quotes for german, I think that's the one thing I either don't have or can't find (or added but forgot where) [14:06:40] but since I'm too lazy to use proper quotes most of the time, it hasn't yet annoyed me quite enough to do something about it :P [14:07:20] oh, I just noticed Compose " , produces „ [14:07:23] (in either order) [14:07:33] and Compose ' , makes ‚ [14:07:47] ooh thanks [14:07:59] yw :) [14:08:06] (but I’ll keep using the Neo version :P ) [14:09:15] hehe [14:18:32] clear [14:18:34] hey [14:18:39] anyone there [17:37:10] RECOVERY - puppet last run on wdqs1010 is OK: OK: Puppet is currently enabled, last run 2 minutes ago with 0 failures [19:17:04] Amir1: Hey, is https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T204748 OK for you to do now? [19:21:03] James_F: hey, I'm traveling atm. But I still don't know what to do. Installing Wikibase repo without enabling any entity type is weird. [19:21:34] The whole part is already covered as part of installing media info imo [19:21:41] Amir1: Sure, but it's also something you're better at than me. :-) [19:22:34] I don't think it's needed at all [19:23:41] Hmm. OK. [19:59:59] Amir1: The catastrophe that is https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/operations/mediawiki-config/+/446843/ is what I meant when I said it might be better done by a Wikidata team expert. :-) [20:11:31] James_F: wow, that's indeed a catastrophe [20:11:57] We need to clean the config [20:12:20] That's a dedicated task imo [20:13:32] Yeah. [20:13:49] I’ll have a think about it