[00:11:25] CatQuest: well, no :) [00:13:12] CarlFK: thanks for adding a value twice. subclass of is actually wrong anyway. [00:38:15] SothoTalKer: I am guessing you are talking about https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q30280684 did you fix it? I was floundering, and suddenly my query worked. [00:39:07] oh, no. I see the extras now [00:44:44] I deleted the 2 subclass's [01:17:35] "Swedish Hospital, formerly Swedish Covenant Hospital, joined NorthShore University HealthSystem in January 2020. The hospital serves the north side of Chicago. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NorthShore_University_HealthSystem#Swedish_Hospital [01:54:13] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q30254235 Advocate Illinois Masonic Medical Center [01:54:29] it is a hospital, but it does not come up in this query: [01:54:52] oh wait yes it does. [01:55:02] https://w.wiki/Q8i [02:15:37] how do I search for: in chicago Q1297 and either Q4287745 or Q16917 ? [02:16:26] Q16917 hospital or Q4287745 medical organization [02:17:33] bjonnh: ^^ [20:20:25] https://w.wiki/QEN my () guess cased the builder side to ... not be happy with me. [20:36:43] CarlFK: nah, i was too lazy :P do you know the difference between P31 and P279? they serve similar purpose, though :) [20:37:39] About 248 [20:38:07] SothoTalKer: no. I just started learning about this a few days go (on and off for 7-10 days maybe) [20:38:56] Reedy: P248 :P [20:40:34] CarlFK: "instance of" usually refers to a specific entity. "subclass of" usually refers to stuff that can be further divided into other entities. [20:41:32] like "house" is a subclass of "building". while "the white house" is an actual instance of a building. [20:41:50] SothoTalKer: yeah.. medical facilities classification is .. hard. [20:42:20] any classification is hard, and basically also arbitrary and artificial [20:43:24] I wanted to start with "hospitals" .. which I suspect have a pretty well defined is/isn't, like are there beds where you can spend the night (aka hospital bed) but even that gets wonky, like there are 2 buildings next to each other, same name and address, only one has beds.. [20:43:46] so I've kinda backed off from this project. [20:44:07] modern hospitals are often building complexes aswell. [20:44:31] CarlFK, that would be more than a semester project for a room full of Master's students [20:44:41] lol [20:44:58] thank you. I feel a little less dumb now. [20:45:11] i think on OSM you can actually create areas for this [20:45:15] A hospital is *extremely* complex (and yes, I studied hospital structure back in the dark ages, when dinosaurs roamed the earth....) [20:45:58] You need to start with the questions you want to ask about a hospital. [20:46:18] Look closely at the domain, and formulate the questions - then how could an answer be found? [20:46:43] That will often help you to see how to structure things. It is never as simple as one thinks it is :) [20:47:35] I just had a look at your query, you are looking for hospitals around a certain point? [20:47:42] Animal hospitals? [20:47:50] Hospices? [20:47:58] Ones that offer corona testing? [20:47:59] :) [20:48:00] the goal a few weeks ago: get list of hospitals within 50 km of a point in Chicago. split them up and contact them "we have face shields to donate. want some?" [20:48:13] I bring Corona into every single thing I think of any more. [20:48:30] That's what the federal government is supposed to do.... [20:48:45] but now the face shields are now being mass produced, us makers can back off our 3d printer sprint [20:48:45] I would just go to Google and search for "hospital" [20:48:52] That will give you an approximation [20:49:20] But think that care centers for the ageing also need them. [20:49:25] And rehabilitation centers [20:49:46] and PT, and nursing homes, and urgent care, and and... [20:49:55] I thought it was so cool that the Makers jumped in and made them [20:50:10] try osm :) [20:50:18] :P [20:50:48] For something like this, a one-off search, Google is probably better. But yes, put everything you find that is missing on OSM [20:50:49] for "subclass" I usually describe it as "is a type of" [20:50:55] Right [20:50:56] a few days ago I created an OSM account, did the tutorial, and have added a place :D [20:51:12] Classes are types, they define the properties and behavior of "something". [20:51:25] They group. The "somethings" are the instances. [20:51:36] at least whenever I'm unsure I ask myself if I can say "x is a type of y" and so far nobody has yelled at me :D [20:51:45] cat is a type of animal, house is a type of building, etc [20:52:07] Pssst: Classes and subclasses ARE types. [20:52:24] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:healthcare :) [20:52:34] But people who don't understand types don't really understand what we mean when we say that :) [20:53:24] SothoTalKer: That looks like a good start on an ontology ;) [20:54:15] ohh but there was the one time I got into an argument with someone, but it turned out to be a translation issue, the english label made one sound right, the french label made another sound right and once we worked that out we were able to resolve it [20:54:45] but until then we were both like "how can you say that??" :D [20:54:47] Many people around here enjoy arguing for the argument's sake ;) [20:55:37] heh not naming names [20:56:27] german wikipedia comes to mind *hides* [20:56:45] SothoTalKer :D [20:58:15] hi [20:58:20] hi [20:58:29] so I want to work on a tool to auto populate data from DOIs [20:58:57] great [20:59:06] Can I host an app that authenticates against wikidata and allow people to edit the site as themselves? [20:59:25] Ideally I would like to make it all client side [20:59:25] CustosLimen: Um, there's already a lot of that here. Where do you get your DOIs? [20:59:46] WiseWoman: well for now I want to enhance data from ACM [20:59:49] create items for people [20:59:53] connect DOIs [21:00:01] it's possible technically, yes, not that I've done it myself [21:00:09] But identifying people=authors is not trivial [21:00:18] use that: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OAuth/For_Developers [21:00:20] WiseWoman: yes it is not trivial [21:00:27] Even in the best database, you have 7 different ways to write the names of one person [21:01:00] WiseWoman: I know - but I want to see what I can manage [21:01:04] There is a project (WikiCite?) that is working on putting the referenced DOIs in for the articles from PubMed [21:01:27] maybe all I get out is a list of people with identifiers to be used with mix-n-match [21:01:36] CustosLimen: you might get something useful from https://archive.org/details/emwcon_2019-Keynote_Wikidata_and_Beyond [21:01:47] thanks I will have a look [21:01:57] to start with I'm just extracting metadata from ACM [21:02:04] and I will work on that for some time [21:02:34] but after that - it would be nice to have some web app that you give DOIs and it creates wikidata items for them maybe [21:02:41] I've had students try that with DLBP and PubMed. It's a bitch :) [21:02:48] it is a bit long, but it is a fun listen. [21:02:48] I will have a look at these things [21:03:18] WiseWoman: ACM sometimes have orcIDs [21:03:23] There is some bot that throws the PubMed publications into WikiData. I don't know exactly who those people are, though [21:03:29] WiseWoman: it also sometimes have other sites - with IDs [21:03:52] but yes it is not going to be a small task [21:04:01] CustosLimen: We only had a few people with ORCIDs. That is not really catching on [21:04:14] Well maybe this will help [21:04:47] OAuth is the way to go, if you want to allow other users edits under their account. For testing you can use the owner-only process: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OAuth/Owner-only_consumers [21:04:59] the idea is to link as many sources together as I can for people, ACM, publeons, dblp, sciprofiles, semanticscholar, researchgate [21:05:10] And IEEE explore [21:05:19] try a match on one of them [21:05:24] And you have how much financing? ;) [21:05:25] or many of them [21:05:30] WiseWoman: my own time :) [21:05:35] Look I have OCD [21:05:41] I can't drop this - it bugs me [21:05:48] it is like a thorn in my shoe [21:06:12] There's a lot of nastiness out there in publication land. [21:06:22] yes I have noticed it [21:06:23] Sure, it would be nice to have "one stop shopping" [21:07:03] And many resister who don't understand why metadata needs to be exact. [21:07:18] Not enough librarians enlightening the technologists out there :D [21:07:36] And the journals are often soooooo sloppy [21:07:46] people [21:07:47] Indeed, but I will see what I can do - I can see it is a lot of work, maybe all that comes out is some mix-n-match [21:08:04] mix-n-match is great ;) [21:08:16] and dead ass slow [21:08:20] SothoTalKer: we can't get rid of the people, though [21:08:41] when I'm bored and can't sleep, mix-n-match is nice. [21:08:55] I feel like I am contributing some microscopic thing .... [21:09:10] i'm cleaning up wrong values [21:09:28] THAT is a big job [21:09:46] a slow process :) [21:10:03] I usually just clean up things when I look them up and see issues [21:10:33] So I'm using node.js - and wikibase-edit and wikibase-api - which is backing for wikidata-cli - I'm wondering - is there some way in that to only create statement if it does not exists - or do I have to do that on top? [21:12:38] I'd do a lookup first - only insert if nothing there. Otherwise, someone needs to have a look at it. [21:14:12] And to delete statements, you have to use identifiers - but I don't see a way to get those when I run a query - maybe there isn't [21:15:56] guid [21:16:20] Delete? Are you sure you want to do that? [21:16:27] no, just wondering [21:16:34] :) [21:16:50] * WiseWoman burned her fingers enough time deleting wrong stuff [21:17:27] I did do a batch delete the other day, but I saved a log to undo into wikidata user page ;) [21:17:31] but yeah it is scary [21:19:17] Logs will save your bacon [21:20:07] Also when inserting stuff. I had a group of students batch insert sind stuff, and they got it just exactly wrong. Luckily, we were able to clean that up. [21:25:21] students, one of the most dumb group of people i have ever met :D [21:25:52] Nah, I've seen dumber [21:26:08] Like shopping these days [21:26:16] well, they are everywhere [21:26:52] Not to mention the idiots whizzing by me on the sidewalk with their bikes. 1,5 meters distance? Nah. [21:27:11] big city life :) [21:30:32] at least fußball will begin again soon :> [21:30:53] PROBLEM - Check systemd state on wdqs1010 is CRITICAL: CRITICAL - degraded: The system is operational but one or more units failed. https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Monitoring/check_systemd_state [21:33:39] SothoTalKer: Aber Handball noch nicht. Kontaktsport :( [21:33:46] ah I figured out how to get guid with query now: PREFIX ps: PREFIX p: SELECT ?value ?guid WHERE { wd:Q1999199 p:P31 ?value . ?value ps:P31 ?guid . } [21:34:02] feldhandball! :) [21:34:15] Müssten wir wieder einführen :) [21:34:29] RECOVERY - Check systemd state on wdqs1010 is OK: OK - running: The system is fully operational https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Monitoring/check_systemd_state [21:34:30] frische luft ist gut [21:34:40] CustosLimen: good! [21:35:21] plötzlich deutsch :o [21:35:37] but I can't find docs for it really [21:36:09] Sorry, handball doesn't translate well, so I slipped into German [21:36:23] I didn't say it was a problem :D [21:38:01] just surprised me slightly, I don't see people speaking german here very often and when I do it's usually wmde people [21:39:53] I don't count as WMDE people ;) [21:40:13] exactly [21:40:25] But I should remember to speak English here, as this is a much more international venue [21:41:05] whereas I think it's good for people to speak more languages here because always speaking english here makes it seem like only english is allowed [21:41:17] Good point [21:41:58] We probably need links to our Babel lists in our "profiles" here :) [21:43:38] I always feel like the babel boxes aren't flexible enough, I can read a bit in a bunch of languages that I definitely don't speak [21:43:52] True. You speak Maltese? [21:44:02] no, that's why it's mt-0 :D [21:44:09] :) [21:44:34] well, I know a *tiny* bit, but mostly it's there because I occasionally add labels [21:45:26] It took me the longest time to figure out why I needed to have my Babel here, too, as I often add labels [21:45:41] but for example I don't know how to say I can read dutch surprisingly well even if I can't say much more than "ik ben ..." [21:46:38] I can read more dutch than japanese, but I can write more japanese than dutch :D [21:47:37] Right, reading it works about 80% of the time, but writing (or spelling!) it is difficult. I only had one semester of Japanese, so more than greetings is not really there. [21:48:06] Although I asked my way in Japanese when I was in Tokyo and understood the answer. I was as proud as punch that I found where I was going ;) [21:48:16] oh cool! [21:48:18] I would've been too [21:48:42] i only add english labels. death to other languages! [21:49:00] Pfffft. English labels are, of course, necessary. [21:49:14] I stumble over many without labels when I try and solve puzzles using Wikidata [21:50:18] dutch is just some not modern german in diguise :> [21:50:26] The Easter puzzle in Tagesspiegel was terrible this year. I only got 3 out of 10 using Wikidata [21:51:09] don't let them see you saying that, SothoTalKer [21:51:34] i fear them not! [21:51:44] I didn't see that puzzle [21:51:59] but if it was terrible maybe I should be glad :D [21:53:32] I ended up with long lists of people I needed to check, naturalists [21:54:17] That could be biologists, zooologists, environmentalists..... [21:55:00] But it is fun to practice SPARQL [21:59:11] and useful!