[16:52:41] #1014: (AW) TS:DR -- https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/fundraiser_2012/cards/1014 [16:52:41] #1014: (AW) AT:AW|O:AW|TS:ID -- https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/fundraiser_2012/cards/1014 [16:58:40] #1060: (AW) Tech Task #1060 CentralNotice: eliminate duplicated Banner preview code: O:AW|TS:B|P:SH|T:TT Description changed -- https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/fundraiser_2012/cards/1060 [17:45:40] #1014: (AW) Description changed -- https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/fundraiser_2012/cards/1014 [19:28:00] (PS1) Adamw: (FR #1014) Disable banner preview and rough out new method [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/81043 [19:28:19] mwalker: ^^ when you get a chance [19:29:41] #1014: (AW) Description changed -- https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/fundraiser_2012/cards/1014 [20:00:47] awight: interesting; and you dont think we should keep it for the in editor preview? [20:09:16] mwalker: let's just... get rid of the edit form preview... [20:09:28] :( [20:09:31] it won't be up-to-date, no matter what [20:09:34] I liked that feature [20:10:48] I start thinking, the only time it's safe to offer the preview is if we are pushing render jobs onto a queue [20:10:56] ... which I think we should eventually consider [20:11:16] get the width + height directly back from the job and store in the db, and so on. [20:11:55] for now, the preview is more like a piece of masking tape with some flowers and the name drawn in sharpie. [21:16:54] (PS1) Adamw: CSS hack to make banner height discoverable [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/81130 [21:35:33] (PS12) Adamw: Banner screenshot job [wikimedia/fundraising/tools] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37361 [21:53:40] #1014: (AW) Description changed -- https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/fundraiser_2012/cards/1014 [21:57:40] #1061: (AW) Tech Task #1061 CentralNotice: admin UI warns when a banner is mising translations: O:AW|TS:B|P:SH|T:TT Description changed -- https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/fundraiser_2012/cards/1061 [21:58:00] har. [21:58:07] the down side of taking screenshots: [21:58:07] Fetching http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random?banner=wlm2013ZA&uselang=lez&country=ZA into /tmp/banner_screenshots/wlm2013ZA/wlm2013ZA_lez.png [21:58:10] 799 x 80 [21:58:13] Fetching http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random?banner=wlm2013ZA&uselang=lfn&country=ZA into /tmp/banner_screenshots/wlm2013ZA/wlm2013ZA_lfn.png [21:58:16] for every language... [22:06:11] mwalker: interesting? I just realized, we should be checking the entire wgLang fallback chain when matching against campaign criteria. [22:07:13] that would lead to some very unexpected results I feel -- what's your scenario [22:07:23] see for example, https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:CentralNotice&method=listNoticeDetail¬ice=glamil-2013-08 [22:07:37] or https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:CentralNotice&method=listNoticeDetail¬ice=WLM+2013+ZA [22:07:45] the banner is only translated into one language. [22:08:07] yes... [22:08:41] the isreali chapter seems to assume that everyone in Isreal speaks yiddish [22:09:23] They want to capture everyone in the country, yes. But as it stands, it's pointless for them to translate the banner for just a few lingua francas. [22:10:04] why do you say that? we will serve translated content where appropriate [22:10:18] only if the campaign criteria are set all crazy like this. [22:11:02] yes -- but that gets down into why do we target user language instead of content language [22:11:15] and how people are confused by that in CN [22:11:30] I dont see how making us respect the fallback chain will make that any simpler [22:11:38] countries with an official language... [22:11:47] we should build that table explicitly [22:12:12] how does that solve what the isreali chapter is attempting to do? [22:15:30] The symptom is that they aren't offering any translations. My guess is that there are underlying problems that make it not worth the effort for chapters to do translation. [22:15:52] If we had up-to-date BCP47, users would be able to specify multiple languages in their profile (like Babel userboxen) [22:16:06] I actually assume that they don't know how to use CN [22:16:14] or are arrogant enough to not care [22:16:19] then, banner translations === campaign language criteria [22:16:30] hehe i did not bring up history... [22:17:06] -- we try fallback chains, not including English by default. If any of a user's languages match a banner, zap em [22:17:20] otherwise, do not show ad in unintelligible language [22:17:23] por favor [22:18:03] send an email to zack, megan, phillipe, and james alexander -- we can do what you're proposing; but it's a big change [22:18:15] thx [22:18:19] I have approximately balanced feelings either way [22:18:34] just something to start talking about as we implement locale [22:18:42] as/if. [22:19:07] meanwhile, GAR [22:19:08] Fetching http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random?banner=glamil_2013_08&uselang=ary&country=IL into /tmp/banner_screenshots/glamil_2013_08/glamil_2013_08_ary.png [22:19:35] I would rather us be able to campaign target a content language -- and then serve content based on the users language [22:19:52] ary == Moroccan Arabic. -titter- [22:20:12] mwalker: I do not grok [22:20:45] "target" is the same countries/geo criteria we have now? [22:20:54] sorry. languages [22:21:01] luuunch [22:21:06] instead of targeting all users on wikipedia that speak english; we target all users on english wikipedia and serve them banners in their language if we have it [22:21:28] defaulting to english if we dont [22:21:42] that seems a bit tautological [22:21:54] when will we feed cross-ling banners? [22:22:13] when a user changes their interface language via ULS or via preferences [22:23:02] but it is a more useful targetting philosophy for general site usage -- e.g. when they deployed VE to enwiki; we actually pushed the banner to all en speaking folks worldwide on all wikis [22:23:14] Would u show the French Zamibian English text? [22:23:34] if we didn't have a translation for them and they were on a wiki that was being targetted [22:23:40] unless your proposed solution goes through [22:23:47] in which without a translation we wouldnt [22:24:49] solves a different problem, maybe. IL would still target all language projects. no? [22:25:13] yes [22:25:24] but it's not entirely orthogonal to the problem you're bringing up [22:26:04] and it makes your solution slightly more palatable [22:27:00] I'm trying to get when it is correct, still. Let's say I'm recruiting translators, so I want en-speakers on hewiki. [22:27:30] Have we collapsed the language preference down and lost this distinction? [22:27:41] yes [22:27:49] you can target UI language and Project [22:27:55] we miss out on content language [22:29:57] I have to think about your project-only suggestion. In general, I think the right thing to do is, display the most relevant banner, in a language the reader can probably read. [22:30:56] Targeting by language actually seems like a sketchy admin method to me; it's widely misused as you point out. [22:31:20] it should only be used if you're polite about translations (FR), or actually mean to target a project [22:32:07] ... and the translations thing is sweetened if we draw languages from BannerMessage, and expand using fallback chains. [22:34:32] right; so if we're targeting english wikipedia -- the only reason a reader would be on their is if they speak english [22:34:51] therefore; we apply the fallback chain to their UI language -- and have the root language be the content language [22:34:54] (in this case english) [22:41:09] * awight facepalm [22:41:19] I've been defending a content language criteria... [22:41:25] and we don't have one yet ;) [22:42:01] yep; I want one; but we have to solve the cache problem first [22:42:09] lest we explode it ANOTHER 300x :p [22:42:11] or yes, I see what you're saying; we only have content language [22:44:47] replace /uselang: mw.config.get( 'wgUserLanguage' )/ [22:44:54] with ...wgContentLanguage [22:45:13] totally. [22:45:58] Lemme know if you get into it with the community ;) I'll run screaming. [22:46:07] :p [22:46:43] Fetching http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random?banner=glamil_2013_08&uselang=na&country=IL into /tmp/banner_screenshots/glamil_2013_08/glamil_2013_08_na.png [22:46:46] 799 x 55 [22:46:49] Fetching http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random?banner=glamil_2013_08&uselang=nah&country=IL into /tmp/banner_screenshots/glamil_2013_08/glamil_2013_08_nah.png [22:46:52] the computer... just told me that. [22:47:20] * awight turns up the electroshock [22:47:56] what the hell language is nah? [22:48:08] lucky bastards [22:48:28] Nahuatl [22:48:47] marktraceur: that doesn't help :p [22:49:07] IMO we can do away with "Note: Campaigns are not cached - rather, banners assigned to campaigns are cached." [22:49:21] * awight throws marktraceur some SPF 85 :p [22:50:40] (CR) Adamw: "Ping. This is subrosa deployed..." [wikimedia/fundraising/tools] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37361 (owner: Adamw) [22:50:48] mwalker: ^^ [22:51:30] awight: hah [22:52:20] on a labs orphan... but still... [22:52:36] it has a public dns name! [22:54:59] (PS13) Adamw: Banner screenshot job [wikimedia/fundraising/tools] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/37361 [22:57:41] #1014: (AW) Description changed -- https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/fundraiser_2012/cards/1014 [22:57:41] #1014: (AW) TS:PCR -- https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/fundraiser_2012/cards/1014 [23:00:41] #1022: (AW) docs are not public? -- https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/fundraiser_2012/cards/1022 [23:00:41] #1022: (AW) Meaning, not on our fileserver? -- https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/fundraiser_2012/cards/1022 [23:44:40] #1062: (AW) Tech Task #1062 CentralNotice: campaign criteria are matched against content language, not UI language: O:AW|TS:B|P:NtH|T:TT Description changed -- https://mingle.corp.wikimedia.org/projects/fundraiser_2012/cards/1062 [23:44:59] mwalker: ^ [23:59:20] (PS3) Adamw: Utility to dump campaign logs [wikimedia/fundraising/tools] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/62094 [23:59:31] (CR) Adamw: "(1 comment)" [wikimedia/fundraising/tools] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/62094 (owner: Adamw)