[00:14:06] (Merged) jenkins-bot: Implement a Handlebars form renderer [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/203945 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95951) (owner: Awight) [02:46:24] (PS6) Awight: Write DonationQueue shim around PHPQueue [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/203280 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92916) [02:46:27] (CR) jenkins-bot: [V: -1] Write DonationQueue shim around PHPQueue [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/203280 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92916) (owner: Awight) [02:51:51] (PS7) Awight: Write DonationQueue shim around PHPQueue [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/203280 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92916) [02:59:16] (PS1) Awight: Document Handlebars rendering class [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/204008 [03:01:22] (PS2) Awight: Document Handlebars rendering class [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/204008 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95951) [03:22:11] (PS1) Awight: Tests for the Handlebars form renderer [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/204011 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95951) [03:25:22] Fundraising Sprint House of Pain, Patch-For-Review: Add mustache templating engine gateway form renderer - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95951#1205688 (awight) [03:28:40] (PS12) Awight: Use DonationQueue for non-orphan queuing [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/200793 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92921) [03:28:44] (CR) jenkins-bot: [V: -1] Use DonationQueue for non-orphan queuing [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/200793 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92921) (owner: Awight) [04:13:28] (PS13) Awight: Use DonationQueue for non-orphan queuing [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/200793 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92921) [04:14:36] (CR) jenkins-bot: [V: -1] Use DonationQueue for non-orphan queuing [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/200793 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92921) (owner: Awight) [04:21:42] (PS14) Awight: Use DonationQueue for non-orphan queuing [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/200793 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92921) [04:22:01] (PS5) Awight: WIP Use DonationQueue in the orphan slayer [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/203282 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92922) [05:25:41] Fundraising Tech Backlog, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface, Technical-Debt: Stop gating configuration with optionalParts[] tests - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95995#1205822 (awight) NEW [06:46:38] (PS8) Awight: Write DonationQueue shim around PHPQueue [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/203280 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92916) [06:54:48] (PS1) Awight: Correcting s/handlebars/mustache/ [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/204020 [07:25:20] Fundraising Sprint House of Pain, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface: Make the forms come from one template - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86248#1205869 (awight) [07:26:31] Fundraising Sprint House of Pain, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface: Make the forms come from one template - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86248#964453 (awight) [08:16:04] (PS2) Awight: Correcting s/handlebars/mustache/ [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/204020 [08:17:26] (CR) jenkins-bot: [V: -1] Correcting s/handlebars/mustache/ [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/204020 (owner: Awight) [13:52:53] awight/andyrussg ping [13:53:11] cmjohnson1: hi! [13:53:30] Hi, I wasn't clear on barium....okay to do the disk swap? [13:53:47] since you're on IRC...i assume its okay [13:54:53] I think so. I see awight is logged in but he might well be AFK. But he will be at work today. [13:55:14] (Or at least WFH, not sure which.) [13:55:36] cmjohnson1: if something goes wrong I guess it's not hard to revert? [13:55:39] iirc...he's in the car atm. [13:56:08] yeah...this should only take a few mins [13:56:19] K sounds good! [13:56:25] (I thought he usually took the train?) [13:59:53] barium is going down for disk swap in 1 minute [14:27:20] OK.... I don't see any payment explosions so far... [14:31:51] Thanks! Adam is stuck behind the wheel while I monitor this thermostat - Michelle [14:32:27] the new disk is in and rebuilding [14:32:29] Firmware state: Copyback [14:32:56] took a little longer, it didn't auto-rebuild so I had to manually add it back [14:55:55] cmjohnson1: ah OK [15:48:59] cmjohnson1: so I get's all set? Thanks much, BTW! [16:06:12] awight: i'm scrapping virtualization (for now) and just going to try and get the tools running normally. i was planning on using this as a sorta guide: https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-vagrant/blob/master/puppet/hieradata/common.yaml [16:06:21] is that reasonable? [16:30:41] cwdent: What's your objective, though? Getting a MediaWiki instance that includes the fundraising-tech extensions? [16:30:57] It might be easier to follow the regular MediaWiki installation howto... [16:31:15] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Installation_guide [16:31:37] cwdent: fyi, here's our software stack, https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising/tech [16:32:14] yessir, i installed mw@1.23 and checked out the submodules [16:32:39] hrm. "fundraising/REL1_23" ? [16:32:44] yep [16:32:48] kk [16:32:49] Wikimedia-Fundraising-CiviCRM: several fundraising user client SSL certificates expiring 2015-04-15 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95200#1206941 (Jgreen) a:Jgreen [16:33:17] once you've done that, you're in great shape, you should be able to do an otherwise normal MediaWiki install. [16:33:37] Wikimedia-Fundraising-CiviCRM: several fundraising user client SSL certificates expiring 2015-04-15 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95200#1182969 (Jgreen) new client certs generated and distributed to users [16:33:55] yep everything works fine, course i have a lot to learn about how to actually _use_ the fancy extensions [16:34:31] for instance, i was going to try to get the globalcollectgateway special page working [16:34:33] oh! [16:35:18] yes... I'm not sure you can get that one working, cos the processor only allows access from whitelisted IPs, even to the sandbox. [16:35:36] PayPal is easier (though not as interesting) [16:35:51] aah, gotcha [16:36:10] Or if you want to look at a specific bug, I can help u set up to exercise that particular functionality [16:36:52] that was sorta my goal, but i wanted to try to do it with a minimum of pestering you :] [16:37:20] Making everything work out of the box, without special and private configuration, is a big deal and we're hoping to make some progress on that at the Lyon hackathon next month... [16:38:08] nice, yes, i would be happy to fiddle with it and document what i do in case the experience of an outsider would be useful [16:38:13] No worries at all that you're pestering us! It's always helpful to get fresh perspective on how janky our distro is... [16:39:09] Fwiw, GlobalCollect actually will display the initial form, but you won't be able to get the credit card iframe... [16:39:49] cwdent: Give me a hint where your interests lay and I can try to help find appropriate bugs... [16:40:47] Fundraising Tech Backlog, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface, Wikimedia-Hackathon-2015: Hackathon idea: Make the DonationInterface extension as friendly as possible - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89188#1206974 (awight) [16:40:54] cwdent: ^^ fyi [16:41:01] pretty much anything that would help me understand how the pieces fit together, donationinterface, centralnotice etc [16:41:04] nice [16:41:20] Also: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/mediawiki-extensions-donationinterface/ [16:42:49] Katie's awesome hand-drawn diagram is probably a good place to start, as you saw. The basic idea is that CentralNotice runs on all the *.wiki* sites, and fundraising is one of the groups adding banners there. [16:43:34] Those banners drive people to payments.wikimedia.org, where donation details are entered into forms rendered by DonationInterface. [16:43:35] for sure [16:43:55] yep, that's the server i was going to try and replicate [16:44:30] Successful donations are recorded with JSON messages, which are then placed into a FIFO queue which decouples the frontend from our secure infrastructure boxes. [16:44:47] and that's activemq? [16:45:06] For now, yes. The backend boxes read from the queue, and store the messages in our civiCRM database. [16:45:09] Fundraising Sprint House of Pain, Patch-For-Review: Add mustache templating engine gateway form renderer - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95951#1206979 (atgo) Are we waiting for @pizzzacat to confirm & close this? [16:45:26] awight seems like wikibugs is only halfway working [16:45:29] and it died. [16:45:32] :P [16:45:39] and the actual payment collection, logging, email, etc is done by queue workers [16:46:04] mmm, payment settlement is mostly done at the processor end, we just wait for notifications. [16:46:33] Other processes download and process nightly audit files, listen to realtime notification streams, and do analysis stuff... [16:46:43] oh ok, so that happens after they click donate [16:46:57] the payment is processed, and then the other stuff is queued? [16:46:59] * AndyRussG gonna keep this backscroll :) [16:47:09] awight: cwdent: awight: hi! [16:47:09] Yes, email is in there too, that's important. You'll receive a thank-you letter after your donation hits the CRM. It's fun, you should try :) [16:47:34] AndyRussG: Hi, thanks for hosting the Ops party! [16:47:46] oh, you bet i have :] [16:48:00] cwdent: so you see that we need help ;) [16:48:24] awight: ah np, thankfully it was totally quiet :) [16:48:26] oh i found the process to be perfectly pleasant [16:48:42] atgo: The mustache thing is waiting on some more review, maybe pizzzacat wants to take a look. It's just extras though, documentation and tests. The blocking part is complete and merged. [16:48:52] cwdent: what method, if I mayask? [16:49:02] awight if it's waiting on review, maybe it should be in review column? :P [16:49:21] i'd rather not call things "done" until they are done [16:49:57] cwdent: There are three main types of flow, fwiw: redirect to the processor, iframe from the processor, and fully hosted by us... [16:50:01] atgo: it was a shorthand to let people know that the blocking stuff was done. [16:50:04] awright: credit card [16:50:47] cwdent: cool. That one needs some work, for example try &language=he&uselang=he, you'll see all kinds of RTL fail [16:51:46] awight: cwdent: IIRC there's also a need to implement language variants for China coming up? [16:51:53] atgo: yah, wikibugs is totally schizo! There was some trickery around which projects we were filtering on, and I don't think my fix got deployed correctly, or something. [16:51:54] China and HK [16:52:10] haha yeah [16:52:20] AndyRussG: I think we decided that we're blocked in HK, but CN can go ahead [16:53:00] awight can we figure something out about this "done" thing? because it's not done if there's still work on that :. [16:53:01] atgo: u think we should make a second card for the Mustache niceties? donno... I just cared that pizzza could start her work. [16:53:01] :/ [16:53:06] atgo: lol [16:53:14] yeah totally... we should either finish it or make it clear that it's not finished [16:53:29] ok, I'll make a second card, then, cos pizzza not here to holler at [16:53:45] re: variants - i've got to catch up on that thread AndyRussG, but it looks like we're OK to go for at least mainland [16:54:07] atgo: awight: Ah OK thx [16:54:50] chilling at a cafe in Santa Cruz btw, so forgive me ahead of time if I wordspew crackness once this coffee hits. [16:55:55] np, wordspew surface is what this channel is for! [16:56:11] :D I think it's starting a;lready [16:56:28] It's amazing that coffee is leagle [16:56:35] Sez my doctor! [16:56:56] especially if you need antacid at the same time [16:57:45] yeah i pretty much had to give up coffee [16:57:59] i used to drink like 10 cups a day [16:58:04] now it's mostly tea [16:58:13] cwdent: ouch! on both counts [16:58:15] I drink it every few months, it's still a freaking party every time [16:58:48] hehe yeah, i have a cup here and there and wow. i guess that used to just be my normal operating state [16:59:04] cwdent: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/easy/ -- these are bugs that have already been vetted as a good place for baby steps... [16:59:47] We should really use that tag to mark some stuff specific to FR-tech, but I think you'll get a good feel for what's going on here even outside of our dept. [17:00:15] great, thanks! [17:00:15] interesting! [17:00:35] i was looking at this one https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86942 -- seems simple enough [17:00:47] famous last words [17:00:47] I'm actually only semihere, I promised a friend I'd copy edit a text for him many weeks ago 8p which I shouldn't have promised... almost done... silly... [17:00:58] heh [17:01:38] awight: anytime you want to start digging further into this patch, you're most welcome to! Tests, PHP doc and reaction to previous CR are not there yet, but the basic structure is in place and it works as promised https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/202310/ [17:01:41] AndyRussG: cool! [17:01:49] AndyRussG: ok awesome, will do. [17:02:10] awight: thanks much! :) [17:02:30] cwdent: holy cow. Technically, that would be fantastic if you want to tackle. But for that one, please be sure to coordinate with us about the overall plan... [17:02:52] Note that to work it needs the yet unmerged patch from core: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/202925/ [17:03:49] do you think messing with core wiki would be more straightforward than fr-tech for someone from the public community? [17:04:53] cwdent: I do think so. [17:05:28] that makes sense [17:05:49] might be easier to get stuff merged on some extensions, tho... [17:05:49] cwdent: If you want to take a stab at the country thing, though, I would just go in there and give the task a bit more structure. There are a few subtasks I can think of off hand. [17:06:02] cwdent: AndyRussG ^^ makes an excellent point. [17:06:26] Submitting mediawiki-core patches can feel a bit like the grand inquisition. [17:06:38] this is probably a stupid question but is there a plan to get payments.wiki on the update train? [17:07:15] This branch is 146 commits ahead, 7331 commits behind master [17:07:18] * cwdent winces [17:08:29] Wikimedia-Fundraising, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface: Display a flag and/or country name on the donation form - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96046#1207080 (awight) NEW [17:09:34] cwdent: Well, not on the main train, but yes a newer release branch: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T94528 [17:10:02] We don't want to follow the train, cos stability and security are much more important than having the latest features. [17:10:18] good point [17:10:18] Also, we would have to be on duty for monitoring during all train deployments. [17:10:30] I guess that's actually the biggest issue. [17:11:24] they deploy more like daily? [17:11:56] https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Deployments [17:12:17] Wikimedia-Fundraising, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface: Display a button or link for manually switching country - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96047#1207093 (awight) NEW [17:12:24] Wikimedia-Fundraising, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface: Display a flag and/or country name on the donation form - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96046#1207100 (awight) [17:12:27] Wikimedia-Fundraising, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface: Display a button or link for manually switching country - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96047#1207093 (awight) [17:12:30] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.25/Roadmap [17:13:42] cwdent: This might be a good place to start on the country issue: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96046 [17:14:00] ... just displaying feedback letting donor know what country we have geolocated them to. [17:14:09] ^the donor [17:14:36] cool. so the geolocation is done when you hit whatever wiki and passed thru to the payment form? [17:14:58] cwdent: Oh, another interesting place to get involved would be to do a little code review on other people's patches. [17:15:17] buahahaha [17:15:25] hehe, should i really start fights before i work there? [17:15:36] cwdent: Yes, geolocation is usually done by a script on the main wiki, and there are fallbacks to re-do geolocation on donatewiki or paymentswiki when necessary. [17:15:40] cwdent: :) [17:16:24] awight: I think it's set by a cookie or something on the clusterinvoked through Varnish now? Not JS anymore I think [17:16:52] AndyRussG: right, thx! [17:17:02] :) [17:18:07] In my cookies: GeoIP: US:Santa_Cruz:36.9713:-121.9875:v4 [17:18:09] i see a geoip cookie. that one? [17:18:16] derp [17:18:31] US:Arvada:39.8288:-105.0607:v4 [17:18:46] That's picked up by the fundraising banner, which turns it into a GET param like "&country=US" [17:19:04] I think there's still a URL that you can hit via JS to Geolocate if you want, tho [17:20:17] For bugfixing purposes, you can just manipulate that GET param and it should be respected everywhere. [17:20:37] cool [17:20:44] well i'll start poking at this and see where i can get! [17:21:38] pizzzacat: If you have a moment, pls take a look at the last two "goodies" patches on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95951 [17:22:03] cwdent: Don't hesitate to ask us stuff! [17:22:44] thanks! i'm sure i'll have to [17:23:08] awight will do! [17:23:42] pizzzacat: thanks! [17:24:40] AndyRussG: I know you said you're busy today, but if you have time this week, I'd love to get your opinion of the queue work I've been doing... [17:25:12] It's all under https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92915 [17:25:34] awight: ah I'm not busy... I mean, I'll be fully here again in like an hour and a half! Definitely will do :) [17:25:55] thanks! [17:26:14] np, likewise :) [17:29:42] ops-fundraising, operations, network: network setup for beryllium.frack.eqiad.wmnet - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95893#1207182 (Jgreen) [17:35:59] hey AndyRussG awight re: language variants, did you see jessica's email? [17:36:12] looks like 92% in CH and ~80% in HK use simplified [17:36:50] atgo: excellent [17:37:02] I'm actually surprised it's that low in CN [17:38:23] atgo: just saw the one to fr-online [17:38:35] sorry not simplified, but mixed text [17:38:45] mixed-script* [17:38:58] I need to git checkout brainstate back to that branch [17:44:36] atgo: Hrm. Right, but AFAIK almost everyone in CN is writing using simplified, so mixed-script is probably an endorsement of the simplified characters. [17:46:33] Wikimedia-Fundraising, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface: Display a button or link for manually switching country - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96047#1207246 (atgo) Hi @awight... why do we want to do this? I'm concerned that we're crafting a bandaid here instead of a solution. [17:48:03] There was some issue in HK with people associating the CN script with CN controling HK politics, no? [17:48:16] atgo: What do you mean by that? ^^ [17:48:24] atgo: hehe, I'm sure there is [17:48:32] sorry s/atgo/AndyRussG/ [17:48:44] I do think we should block the HK campaign on language variants [17:50:19] atgo: I don't think we can ever assume geolocation is going to be 100% accurate, so how is this a band-aid? [17:50:34] Anyway, most people like seeing their flag :) [17:51:46] cwdent: Here's the stuff that our ad platform is being used for, https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralNotice [18:07:52] atgo: holler. [18:07:57] howdy [18:08:43] atgo: when you have a minute, can we sync up about the country thing? [18:08:55] It came up because cwdent might be interested in chipping away at that bug. [18:09:40] ... so I'd like to nail down at least the first one or two details... [18:10:22] ok [18:10:33] i have 2-3 open [18:10:44] sure, it's probably a 15-min thing [18:19:18] (CR) Awight: "I'm suggesting that the changes to banner allocation be broken into a second patch, for easier rollback. Looks like most of the other cam" (5 comments) [extensions/CentralNotice] (campaign_mixins) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/202310 (owner: AndyRussG) [18:32:13] Fundraising-Backlog: Enabling Paypal in local currency (RMB) for China - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96062#1207432 (Ppena) NEW [18:38:06] for the country switcher bug, would the chooser appear on the fundraiserlandingpage on the donate server? [18:38:28] and thus get developed against mw stable instead of the older version on payments.wiki [18:42:09] cwdent: I'd say, somewhere in DonationInterface, probably a popup on the donation form itself. [18:42:25] That way we don't have to redirect from paymentswiki back out to donatewiki [18:44:03] gotcha [18:44:04] thanks [18:46:22] hey pizzzacat want to go grab some lunch? [18:46:26] i'm going to sit in on the talk at noon [18:47:40] Fundraising-Backlog: Update error messaging on donate form (pre-payment fields) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96066#1207483 (CCogdill_WMF) NEW a:atgo [18:47:40] also way to rock the stealth headphones there. [18:48:00] i'm going to tava if you want anything lmk [18:48:18] Fundraising-Backlog: Update error messaging on donate form (pre-payment fields) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96066#1207493 (CCogdill_WMF) Not sure what next steps are, i.e. if this goes through translate.wiki or tech. @Pcoombe do you know? [18:48:49] oops damnit sorry atgo-lunch [19:16:03] Fundraising-Backlog: Update error messaging on donate form (pre-payment fields) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96066#1207531 (awight) The workflow is, * Edit the English text in the DonationInterface codebase, or in TWN. * Once those changes are merged, translation can happen on TWN. * As translations... [19:28:45] awight: since we looked at the staff page yesterday, Advancement has been updated :) [19:37:54] (CR) Awight: WIP Campaign-associated mixins (23 comments) [extensions/CentralNotice] (campaign_mixins) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/202310 (owner: AndyRussG) [19:38:20] awight: ^ well I guess that's digging in fer sher [19:41:53] awight: how about if we put the change in allocation algorithm _ahead_ of campaign mxins, and put it on the master branch, rather than the feature branch? [19:42:11] That way we could actually deploy it and test it out for a while, and like you say revert it [19:42:29] before we start putting out other stuff that actually depends on it [19:49:46] atgo: awesome. I feel so futuristic now that people I know have a department with that name. [19:55:26] (CR) Awight: "Small TODO: tests that cover the throttled campaign allocation bug you found." [extensions/CentralNotice] (campaign_mixins) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/202310 (owner: AndyRussG) [19:56:56] ccogdill: Are you around this afternoon, to field possible donor services stuff after a deployment? [19:57:11] I'm not sure I want to do the deployment yet, just checking with you to see if it's a possibility. [19:57:28] awight sure, what time? [19:58:02] Maybe 2:30 or so [19:58:50] The deployment would be, https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T94246 and https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T94506 but the second patch has the potential to really cause screwups... [20:00:03] (PS3) Awight: Correcting s/handlebars/mustache/ [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/204020 [20:00:32] Fundraising-Backlog: Require name and email on iDEAL form - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96074#1207635 (CCogdill_WMF) NEW a:atgo [20:00:59] (CR) Ssmith: [C: 2] Document Handlebars rendering class [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/204008 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95951) (owner: Awight) [20:01:10] Fundraising-Backlog: Require email on iDEAL form - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96074#1207644 (CCogdill_WMF) [20:01:20] pizzzacat: I think you saw my note about this? ^^ Currently, we're supposed to be limiting ourselves to Mustache features, to stay compatible with mw-core templating... But if you run into annoyances, do keep Handlebars in mind. IMO the conversation around which to use is not completely finished. [20:02:37] thanks awight, will keep an eye out. ping me and MBeat when you do it [20:02:49] he may or may not be on at 2:30... [20:02:58] Will do! [20:03:13] thanks :) [20:03:16] i'm in! [20:04:29] I think the symptoms of this deployment possibly going wrong will be, we'd see a sudden spike of donors incorrectly getting English as their preferred language. [20:04:41] good to know [20:04:51] before the TY page or only at that point? [20:04:59] Hmm I wonder if there's standup [20:05:09] oof! [20:05:11] we could do e-mail [20:05:15] jumping on... [20:07:51] awight: AndyRussG missed you in standup [20:08:03] atgo: we're in standup! [20:08:09] yep [20:08:23] atgo: you got lost in the wifi and google fiber? [20:08:57] we left [20:09:00] after 4 minutes [20:09:21] want to just do irc? [20:09:35] ok sure [20:09:57] atgo: I was there from the start! [20:10:01] But that's fine, we've left now [20:10:03] wait really? it wasn't working [20:10:05] then [20:10:08] because we were there [20:10:11] and had def clicked join [20:10:14] Maybe the wrong link? [20:10:39] It's easy to confuse the standup and the sit-down links [20:10:39] I did a bunch of hellos and code review. I'm seriously considering doing a DI deployment, I'd like to chat about that though. Finally, I'll keep doing queue refactor. [20:11:24] The DI deployment is for https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T94246 (has a deadline of April 18) and https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T94506 [20:11:38] I'm just digging into awight's code review. Not a very productive day other than that so far. I'll fix things up following all those excellent suggestions... [20:11:57] The second patch has some destructive potential, so I feel funny about deploying it without some overlap with the next shift of payments devs... [20:12:30] * AndyRussG cowers since he fuss about standup and then had hardly anything to say... [20:12:33] hmm [20:13:30] I can hope that anything bad would show up right away, though. [20:13:30] since the last time we did this, i went to the quarterly review, spent some time on CN UI, and had product meeting. also checked in with PP, MB, and CC. nothing to report to you guys there :) [20:16:30] atgo: Which way are you leaning wrt the DI deployment? [20:16:38] next up: CN stuff, talking to awight about a potential feature, CRM scoping with CV and CC [20:17:06] awight: that's totally your turf... the consequences are yours to understand and deal with :P [20:17:27] ok. Can I ask you to pass the torch of "what TF happened?" on to tomorrow's shift? [20:17:43] if you push go? [20:17:56] (Merged) jenkins-bot: Document Handlebars rendering class [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/204008 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95951) (owner: Awight) [20:17:57] yes [20:18:03] also pizzzacat can't get into IRC, but i've shared your standups and she's emailing :) [20:18:23] awight: maybe it makes sense to just wait until thursday for the deploy? [20:18:25] Or... lemme just email people. [20:18:30] you, k4, and ee will be here [20:18:36] K. Let's do that. [20:18:50] thx for talking me off the ledge. [20:19:08] hehe :) [20:21:32] pizzzacat: One more thing we should probably push through the door, just a rename: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/204020 [20:21:39] pizzzacat: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:CentralNotice [20:23:56] am I here? [20:24:02] O_o [20:24:09] The wall is talking... [20:25:41] http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k497/animalsbeingdicks/abd-3-12-2015.gif [20:37:24] hey AndyRussG - quick question... can you have more than 1 banner/bucket? if so, what happens? [20:37:59] atgo: yes you can! It's not the norm, but it's allowed [20:38:08] That's what "banner weights" are for [20:38:16] ... [20:38:25] If you have two banners in a single bucket you can weight them differently, so that one shows up more than the other [20:38:42] got it [20:38:50] I think that case is usually for a campaign that has only one bucket but two banners that they want to show at different rates [20:38:52] but how can the team read the results of that? [20:39:02] so like.. they want to try something on a smaller group [20:39:07] Truth be told, though, I've never actually seen it used [20:39:09] but i think megan said they're not doing that as much these days [20:39:13] ahh got it [20:39:21] We're supposed to be normalizing by number of impressions... [20:39:23] Maybe awight has some history to share [20:39:29] yeah [20:39:32] ok, i think that makes sense [20:39:43] You'd get the impression numbers per banner, as usual [20:39:50] so they could, theoretically, show a banner to 10% of readers and show another to the 90% [20:39:52] So no difference there [20:39:55] and then normalize with impressions [20:40:02] Also, I'm not sure what the norm is outside of FR and WMDE. I would assume other people don't use buckets. But they probably also don't A/B test. [20:40:10] atgo: exactly. [20:40:14] Do they use weights? [20:40:17] yeah... i think we are safely the largest a/b consumers :) [20:40:25] atgo: no, WMDE is all over it [20:40:39] atgo: also, you know about the cn-admins mailing list, right? [20:40:46] yeah [20:40:48] k [20:41:23] but generally outside of us and WMDE, the standard you've seen is 1 bucket 1 banner, right? [20:41:44] Unfortunately, our existing tools are not smart about normalizing by impressions. But it sounds like meganhernandez has been very diligent about only using the per impression numbers from among the junk! [20:41:49] atgo: I think so. [20:42:50] awight: what exactly do you mean by normalizing with impressions? [20:42:52] There was a very common use case of "blank" banners in the same bucket, until we introduced throttling. [20:43:07] ooh that must've been fun [20:43:21] AndyRussG: just that, results for 90% vs 10% banners are easy to interpret, as long as you divide all stats by the number of impressions. [20:43:45] Ah right gotcha [20:43:45] AndyRussG: it was so evil... [20:44:08] >_> [20:44:14] <_< [20:44:30] So bad it was good? [20:45:37] No, in this case it was so bad that the new feature was adopted pretty much universally, within a week :) [20:45:45] Which is not a thing that happens. [20:45:56] Hmmm [20:46:51] atgo: just to confirm, yeah nobody else seems to have > 1 banner per campaign. It probably has something to do with not having access to the impressions numbers! [20:48:45] atgo: also, just FYI, in our ghost standup hangout, we plotted to spin out the major banner choosing changes already in the campaign mixins patch and deploy them sooner, so they can be tested and rolled back easily if need be [20:49:01] ok [20:49:32] I think the thing to do would be to make that into a separate card and make it block the campaign mixins, is that OK? If u agree I can do so... [20:49:42] are we limited to multiples of 2 for buckets? [20:49:51] Yes! [20:50:00] :D [20:50:26] Actually the config is you only have 2 buckets that the system will ever assign to automatically, A and B [20:50:45] Unless you add in some fancy JS like the do for the big-size banner scheme, no one will ever get C and D [20:57:14] got it [20:58:02] atgo: wrt to bucket UI, pls see my mockup (bucket controls in the "Add banners" area) for an image of that UI bit, which is merged but not deployed [20:58:51] last mockup? where can i find? [20:59:04] Er, last=only [20:59:15] One of not so many [20:59:33] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CentralNotice/Notes/Campaign-associated_mixins_and_banner_history#Campaign-associated_Mixins [21:02:15] atgo: ping [21:02:29] zee hangout [21:02:45] hey! aagh sorry [21:02:48] finishing up with pizzza [21:02:59] (PS6) Awight: WIP Use DonationQueue in the orphan slayer [extensions/DonationInterface] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/203282 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T92922) [21:03:00] no rush [21:06:40] joining! [21:13:32] Fundraising Sprint House of Pain, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface: Make the forms come from one template - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86248#1207919 (awight) [21:13:38] Wikimedia-Fundraising, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface: Provide a country switching form on payments.wmo - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86942#1207918 (awight) [21:16:10] Fundraising-Backlog, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface, Easy: Show contribution tracking ID on "your transaction could not be accepted" page - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T85584#1207921 (atgo) [21:17:54] Fundraising-Backlog, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface, Easy: Add mailto link on "your transaction could not be accepted" page that would include contribution tracking ID in the body or subject of email - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T85585#1207922 (atgo) [21:21:00] Fundraising Tech Backlog, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface, Wikimedia-Hackathon-2015: Hackathon idea: Make the DonationInterface extension as friendly as possible - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89188#1207936 (awight) TODO: Split into subtasks. [21:21:51] Fundraising-Backlog, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface, Easy: Legal text should only be under form on LP1 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T94048#1207938 (atgo) [21:24:26] Fundraising Sprint House of Pain, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface: Make the forms come from one template - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T86248#1207944 (awight) [21:24:29] Wikimedia-Fundraising, MediaWiki-extensions-CentralNotice, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface, Accessibility: Triage accessibility for donor-facing Fundraising components - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T87667#1207943 (awight) [21:24:58] Fundraising Tech Backlog, MediaWiki-extensions-DonationInterface, Easy: Move DonationInterface test fixtures into pure data files. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T95397#1207945 (atgo) [21:28:03] Wikimedia-Fundraising-CiviCRM: Change the AZL Civi import to Engage - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T96084#1207963 (RLewis) NEW a:atgo [21:29:35] cwdent: Just a heads-up, atgo and I just talked about the country bug, and it's not quite ready to go... [21:30:25] The main blocker is that we should wait until after the forms refactoring (in progress), so that this change can be made in just one place, and in a sane templating language... [21:31:01] heh, no worries, having plenty of fun just exploring the code [21:31:08] cwdent: We also made this view of the bugs, which should be so-called easy tasks. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/sprint/board/409/query/WJiif9tI_AYG/ [21:31:14] you have an interesting definition of fun :P [21:31:43] The Contribution Tracking ID stuff is probably the most exciting from a "needs doing" perspective, fwiw. [21:32:04] oh nice, thanks [21:32:20] Also--when we say "easy", it just means that the work can be done without sticking your entire head in the lion's jaws... [21:33:12] totally, like relegated to a couple files? [21:34:25] Well, they vary in complexity, but the criteria we were using is that you can see the bug without needing payment processor credentials, and it doesn't touch parts of code that are currently churning. [21:35:08] hey mbeat - I’m at a coffee shop working with Megan, about to head back to the office but will be offline for about 20 minutes [21:35:22] cool, have fun [21:35:25] if awight rolls out this change, will you be online to watch things and make sure donors aren’t screaming? [21:35:29] not sure when you’re signing off :) [21:35:30] ccogdill: MBeat: jfyi, I'm waiting until Thursday to do the deployment [21:35:30] yup [21:35:33] Sorry for the late notice! [21:35:34] oh ah [21:35:36] ah [21:35:39] cool [21:35:39] well thanks awight [21:35:42] and nevermind mbeat! [21:35:46] :) [21:35:48] :) Enjoy the sun! [21:35:53] merci :) [21:51:55] hey Jeff_Green - still there? [22:20:18] Gotta relocate to outlets... See you in a bit!