[01:36:28] (PS1) Ejegg: WIP: fancy variant for opt-in page [extensions/FundraisingEmailUnsubscribe] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498287 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218240) [01:37:19] (PS2) Ejegg: WIP: fancy variant for opt-in page [extensions/FundraisingEmailUnsubscribe] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498287 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218240) [14:19:21] Fundraising-Backlog, Analytics, Product-Analytics: Fix EventLogging schemas that use array for items type - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218617 (Ottomata) So, wow. EventLogging's schemaschema.json is forcing that the array items is itself an array, which only validates that each element in the... [14:20:12] Fundraising Sprint Fistful of $variables, Fundraising-Backlog: Documentation: Simplify homepage - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T217178 (mepps) Next todo: break Dashboard out into it's own page [14:21:01] good mornznooz fr-tech :) [14:21:18] mornznoonz* [14:22:24] so just now I realised that if you have an xdebug run going, close your laptop and go have lunch, open it back up an hour later... you can carry on stepping through the code! pretty neat [14:26:05] awight used to say mornoon [14:26:08] * cwd sniff [14:27:28] hi jgleeson [14:27:42] cwd, :( [14:27:53] hey ejegg [14:29:23] jgleeson: cwd: hi! [14:29:52] hi AndyRussG and cwd! [14:30:00] o/ [14:30:19] hey AndyRussG :):) [14:30:23] cwd I'm going to do a small update to donationinterface on the codfw cluster so it matches the version deployed against 1.27 [14:30:42] otherwise we'll get a couple of regressions when we switch over [14:30:53] okey dokey, you should be able to deploy payments-staging [14:30:57] on things that have been fixed in the last couple weeks [14:31:00] cool cool [14:31:44] so in the switchover, ppl who start sessions on eqiad will stay on eqiad till they finish the donation there? [14:32:10] DNS change is going to be a little funky in that respect [14:32:28] we should probably just go down until it percolates [14:32:46] Jeff_Green: ^ ? [14:34:06] ejegg: that depends on the client side, most browsers will cache the IP for a while, probably long enough to keep them on the same host for a session [14:34:14] the idea of doing it sunday evening has been rattling around in my brain [14:35:05] maybe a little late for that idea, but it could be a mellower opportunity [14:35:24] I think it's a better idea than doing it right at the start of a serious campaign [14:35:44] then we could just bugfix on monday [14:36:00] there's going to be a very small percentage of users who experience session carnage [14:36:31] we could minimize it with some downtime [14:36:41] if it's sunday night maybe no one will care [14:37:15] yep, 10 minutes should provide enough time for the vast majority of DNS recursing servers to refresh their cached entries, since our TTL is 5min [14:38:11] that seems like a good plan [14:39:25] ejegg: how fugly is it if someone drifts from one cluster to the other mid-transaction? do they just see their form data get reset, transaction fail, or is it just that it becomes a log-scraping job for the orphan slayer? [14:39:48] it seems to me that they would just show up at the initial page again w/ a new session? [14:40:10] or maybe an error page due to the url [14:40:43] Jeff_Green: it depends on the processor [14:41:11] oh if they return from the processor to the new site? [14:41:12] For Amazon, I think it would fail with a mystery message [14:41:32] for GlobalCollect, log-scraping [14:41:42] For old paypal, totally fine [14:41:49] is this what happens now if they drift across webservers, or does the memcache pool work around that? [14:41:52] new paypal might totally fail, not sure? [14:42:08] the memcache pool shares sessions? [14:42:16] if so, it would work around that [14:42:27] i dunno [14:42:42] i always thought they did *not* share sessions [14:43:02] i wonder how we can actually test that [14:46:54] I suppose we could test exactly what happens by coordinating changes to /etc/hosts on midway through a transaction [14:47:12] switching back/forth across clusters I mean [14:47:40] for the memcache question specifically we could mess with the lvs pooling mid-transaction [14:48:13] afaik you can't actually look at what's in memcache [14:48:15] great feature [14:48:50] yeah it's not really designed for that [14:48:58] https://blog.elijaa.org/2010/12/24/understanding-memcached-stats-cachedump-command/ [14:51:27] based on general stats output i am pretty confident the payments servers have different contents [14:52:59] they should, it functions as a sharded memory pool across servers [14:53:21] so where the content ends up is based on the sharding scheme at the memcache client [14:55:00] ah ok [15:02:11] Fundraising-Backlog, Analytics, Product-Analytics: Fix EventLogging schemas that use array for items type - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218617 (Ottomata) Oof: `lang=php public function getSequenceChildRef( $i ) { TODO: make this conform to draft-03 by also allowing single object ` https:/... [15:09:35] Fundraising-Backlog, Analytics, Product-Analytics: Fix EventLogging schemas that use array for items type - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218617 (Ottomata) I can make the EventLogging extension accept the proper items schema object format, but I can't seem to make it properly validate instances... [15:25:33] ContributionTracking has too many letters for my liking [15:25:45] and CTthingclass doesn't feel right [15:25:47] :| [15:27:08] jgleeson ConTra? [15:27:11] :) [15:28:19] I wonder if it's possible to use the facebook brain games style naming convention... so something like cntrbutntrkn lol [15:28:29] or maybe not .. [15:29:43] mepps, contra suggests all kinds of things [15:29:52] :) [15:30:17] (politically related) [15:36:07] Hey All! [15:36:13] Team should be aware of https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218918 [15:38:02] That looks like a fun bug :/ [15:40:24] they don't exist [15:40:54] :< [15:54:32] pcoombe: Yeah it's pretty significant. [15:59:12] (PS1) Jgleeson: WIP: Create queue consumer for contribution tracking [wikimedia/fundraising/crm] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498413 [16:01:11] ejegg, i just wanted to check to see if the above patch is heading in the direction you would have expected after our chat yesterday? [16:01:52] I've been looking over Xeno(no-auto-complete)'s patch to get an idea of how it should work from the other end [16:02:09] cool jgleeson ! I'll take a look in a few [16:02:14] thanks! [16:02:41] XenoRyet* [16:03:13] Fundraising-Backlog, Analytics, Analytics-Kanban, Product-Analytics, Patch-For-Review: Fix EventLogging schemas that use array for items type - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218617 (Ottomata) [16:11:25] Fundraising-Backlog, Analytics, Analytics-Kanban, Product-Analytics, Patch-For-Review: Fix EventLogging schemas that use array for items type - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218617 (Ottomata) a:chelsyx→Ottomata [16:11:41] Fundraising-Backlog, Analytics, Analytics-EventLogging, Analytics-Kanban, and 2 others: Fix EventLogging schemas that use array for items type - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218617 (Ottomata) [16:31:24] (PS2) Jgleeson: WIP: Create queue consumer for contribution tracking [wikimedia/fundraising/crm] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498413 [16:53:24] (PS3) Jgleeson: WIP: Create queue consumer for contribution tracking [wikimedia/fundraising/crm] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498413 [17:05:27] jgleeson: that looks like a good start! [17:05:55] Let's have it update the row if the ID already exists [17:06:17] thanks! [17:06:23] re: update, sure will do [17:08:07] oh hey, after this work is done we might be able to get rid of those wack cross-db pseudo-transactions [17:08:31] at least the ones that we get into as a result of updating the c_t table when we write a donation [17:09:19] now we'll be able to just drop a message in this queue with the contribution ID and the ct_id [17:11:36] (PS1) Ejegg: Merge branch 'master' into deploy-payments_1.31 [extensions/DonationInterface] (deploy-payments_1.31) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498430 [17:11:44] (CR) Ejegg: [C: +2] Merge branch 'master' into deploy-payments_1.31 [extensions/DonationInterface] (deploy-payments_1.31) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498430 (owner: Ejegg) [17:16:15] hmm I trying to send '-d error_reporting=0' to php when running drush to get rid of a bunch of annoying "count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements [warning]Countable" errors filling up drush help output. Anyone else had to fix this in php 7.2? [17:16:19] fr-tech^ [17:16:38] ahh isn't it display_warnings=off? [17:16:43] I forget [17:21:36] (Merged) jenkins-bot: Merge branch 'master' into deploy-payments_1.31 [extensions/DonationInterface] (deploy-payments_1.31) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498430 (owner: Ejegg) [17:25:27] following this post in relation to the issue above https://drupal.stackexchange.com/questions/105166/is-there-a-way-to-pass-additonal-php-ini-settings-to-a-drush-command [17:28:53] jgleeson: oh yeah, I get plenty of those warnings too [17:29:04] I haven't actually turned any warnings off though [17:29:06] they're super annoying [17:29:11] sure are [17:29:38] and php is definitely receiving the error setting so I'm not sure why they still persist [17:29:39] let's see, is it core drupal or drush doing that? [17:29:49] hmmm [17:29:52] not sure [17:32:04] so if I add a simple little script containing: [17:32:04] if(count($a>1)) { [17:32:06] echo "jack"; [17:32:08] } [17:32:22] and run that without any flags I see the notice and warning relating to the broken code [17:32:57] if I add [17:33:08] php -d error_reporting=0 test.php [17:33:23] the errors go away. However in drush :) the errors persist [17:33:28] so I'm scratching my head at this point [17:47:21] fr-tech so I settled with running `drush 2> /dev/null` in the end which isn't an ideal solution but it works! [17:48:05] If it works, it works [17:48:15] indeed [18:15:54] Fundraising Sprint Fistful of $variables, Fundraising-Backlog: Documentation: Simplify homepage - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T217178 (mepps) @jgleeson @XenoRyet @AndyRussG I'd love your feedback on the new [[ URL | homepage ]]. @cstone, @Ejegg I made a couple minor changes since I last showed you,... [18:20:34] Fundraising Sprint Fistful of $variables, Fundraising-Backlog: Documentation: Simplify homepage - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T217178 (XenoRyet) I like it. It definitely has everything I need from it in a much cleaner format than previously. I particularly like the links to our phab board. [18:24:54] mepps, I don't see the URl [18:25:05] although I see markdown for a URL link [18:25:09] URL* [18:26:03] got it https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Fundraising_tech [18:29:19] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Fundraising_tech/Roles_and_Responsibilities [18:29:24] we still got katie :< [18:29:37] and cstone looks like you need to add yourself to that one :) [18:29:51] mepps, this is lookin really good! [18:31:16] oh jgleeson, roles and responsibilites will be my next project, and thanks! [18:31:20] i also added the link :P [18:33:38] :) [18:34:23] Sherah Smith added the brilliant Director of Pundraising role. She'll always have my repsect! https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Fundraising_tech/Roles_and_Responsibilities&diff=1513663&oldid=1513658 [18:37:01] ok fr-tech, I've got another problem-taking-too-long-to-work-out moment which I'm gonna share [18:37:12] please do jgleeson! [18:42:05] fr-tech ^ I've added a new drush command for our contribution tracking queue consumer patch here https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/498413/ which is a new addition to the queue2civicrm module. My problem is that I can call it! So far I've tried disabling/enabling the q2c module (and then all modules for good measure) and also clearing drush cache. However, If I run `drush pm-list` I see the new command listed but marked as 'Not [18:42:05] Installed' and my previous efforts have not resulted in it being installed. Any ideas? [18:42:50] huh interesting jgleeson! [18:44:03] fr-tech, here's a snapshot of what pm-list shows me https://pasteboard.co/I6Dul74.png [18:44:43] yeah, scratching my head on this one too! [18:44:54] one of them "it should just work" moments [18:45:07] i'm trying to test on my machine [18:45:31] although typically those moments are followed by "oh why did I miss that patently obvious thing I needed to do!" [18:45:39] :) [18:45:51] where is drupal within the vagrant box? [18:46:05] vagrant/srv/org.civi.blah/drupal [18:46:24] hm it's not there for me.. [18:46:38] i mean once i've sshed in [18:46:48] try /vagrant/srv/org.wikimedia.civicrm/drupal [18:47:14] sorry my fist path wasn't the actual path [18:47:35] no worries, i thought i'd tried that but maybe i didn't [18:48:10] cool, found it [18:48:41] okay i see not installed too... [18:49:34] hmmm that description of the problem wasn't the most helpful. Just to clarify, my problem is that I CAN'T call it.. :P [18:51:34] no i got it [18:52:21] it never ceases to amaze me how much better I am at proofreading what I write immediately after pressing enter... [18:55:21] ahh I might know what it is [18:56:09] I'm imagining that there's some hierarchy to the modules and subfolders automatically get installed when you enable the imaginary "parent" module [18:56:15] and that might not be the case [18:56:21] ah [18:56:39] s/imagining/assuming/ [18:57:14] brb, going to drive home hopefully before rain hits [18:58:10] sure, thanks for being a sound board I think I've fixed it [18:58:14] and good luck with the weather! [18:58:36] yes, issuing `drush pm-enable wmf_ct_qc` fixed it [19:05:28] jgleeson take a look in the settings dir, too. For continuous integration, you'll want to add your new module to the enabled_modules list there [19:05:59] (i think vagrant initial setup uses the same file) [19:06:18] got that on my list. I only worked it out after realising what I was doing wrong above [19:06:27] oh cool [19:06:28] yup it does [19:06:49] it runs 'drush pm-install `cat that-file`' [19:07:04] actually it might be pm-enable [19:11:27] (PS4) Jgleeson: WIP: Create queue consumer for contribution tracking [wikimedia/fundraising/crm] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498413 [19:13:16] still not able to get it running :< i've added some notes in my eod email. Have a great weekend fr-tech and see you Monday! [19:44:26] (PS1) Ejegg: Update DI & vendor to match fundraising/REL1_27 [core] (fundraising/REL1_31) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498460 [19:47:21] (CR) Ejegg: [C: +2] Update DI & vendor to match fundraising/REL1_27 [core] (fundraising/REL1_31) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498460 (owner: Ejegg) [19:51:40] (Merged) jenkins-bot: Update DI & vendor to match fundraising/REL1_27 [core] (fundraising/REL1_31) - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498460 (owner: Ejegg) [19:59:49] !log updated payments-wiki-staging from 31647bc97e to f42910460b [19:59:50] Logged the message at https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Server_Admin_Log [20:10:00] fr-tech I just pushed an update to the config repo for payments-wiki-staging [20:10:11] to get it up to date with the config for regular payments-wiki [20:10:21] fr-tech anyone available to take a look at that? [20:12:34] just as a reminder, i won't be here Monday while y'all are doing the upgrade [20:12:41] and I'm taking off a bit early today [20:13:05] so please let me know within the next hour or so if you have any questions about it! [20:14:17] (CR) Mepps: WIP: Create queue consumer for contribution tracking (1 comment) [wikimedia/fundraising/crm] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498413 (owner: Jgleeson) [20:15:02] ejegg what concerns do you have about it? [20:15:24] (PS1) Esanders: build: Update eslint-config-wikimedia to 0.11.0 [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498476 [20:16:20] mepps just that everyone knows what to expect [20:16:44] and what's different about the deployment [20:17:01] who is going to be deploying it? [20:17:15] (PS1) Esanders: Use better doNotTrack logic from ext-EventLogging [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498478 [20:17:18] i.e. using composer merge plugin to combine vendor dirs [20:17:19] or are we jsut doing a dns switch on monday? [20:17:30] mepps yeah, ops will do a dns switch [20:18:07] ejegg does anyone on the team know to do that composer merge plugin? do we need to do that on monday? [20:18:54] (PS1) Jayprakash12345: User getText() instead of getNativeData() [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498480 [20:18:56] mepps the composer merge plugin was activated by adding a few lines to the mediawiki core's composer.json on the fundraising/REL1_31 branch [20:19:22] so now any time you want to update any deps for payments-wiki extensions, you should do that in the mediawiki core directory instead [20:19:35] ah, good to know [20:19:47] and do we have to do that on monday? [20:19:59] and DonationInterface and FundraisingEmailUnsubscribe no longer have their own composer.lock file or vendor dir [20:20:05] mepps not if everything's working! [20:20:22] (PS2) Jayprakash12345: User getText() instead of getNativeData() [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498480 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155582) [20:20:45] okay, got it, is there an fr-tech engineer designated to be watching for any problems? [20:21:08] fr-tech as a whole should definitely be paying attention to the upgrade [20:21:38] hmm, we might want a point person, with you out [20:21:46] what time is the switch going to happen? [20:22:25] Jeff_Green and cwd ^^^ ? [20:22:50] well we've been considering doing it sunday night [20:23:34] okay, maybe jgleeson until 4:30 utc, then XenoRyet if you're up for it? [20:24:08] Yea, I can keep an eye out. [20:25:25] OK, I'm going to push out that settings update and do another round of test donations with the hostsfile hack [20:25:44] thanks! [20:25:49] Fundraising Sprint A series of unfortunate event handlers, Fundraising Sprint Bert and Ernie's Excellent Adventure, Fundraising Sprint Casino Royale With Cheese, Fundraising Sprint Da Vinci Coder, and 5 others: Upgrade PaymentsWiki to Mediawiki 1.31 (new LT... - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T184460 [20:26:10] i could take the campaigns down, i don't love doing it because i don't know what i'm changing which makes it error prone [20:26:29] but i don't want to obligate anyone for sunday night on friday [20:26:40] oblige? [20:26:50] good to know, cwd! [20:26:53] it would be good to have someone on call [20:27:08] i more wnated to make sure that if anything comes up on monday during working hours we know who's planning to handle [20:27:19] it's pretty last minute to ask someone to be on call for sunday night [20:27:31] true [20:28:04] AndyRussG, are you planning to work on Sunday evening anyways? [20:28:09] any idea what time the main campaign starts on monday? [20:29:05] i do not know [20:29:19] ok [20:30:43] i will just be real careful clicking the boxes [20:30:55] all i do is look for ones that say _FR [20:31:31] as long as it's not a big campaign, the number of people affected by a mid-transaction DNS change should be very small [20:32:00] so as long as the codfw cluster doesn't fall over under load . . . it should be minimal impact either way [20:33:09] yeap [20:33:25] do we feel like we're to the point where it's just going to be a dns change? [20:36:09] i gotta review that wiki writeup [20:38:21] we've done everything on the list up to the testing step [20:38:25] (PS3) Jayprakash12345: Use getText() instead of getNativeData() [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498480 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155582) [20:39:25] it's looking good to me in my fairly locked down browser [20:54:36] so far so good in my testing too [20:57:27] fr-tech can anyone take a quick look at this d-local donation? I told MBeat I could today, but I'm running short of time: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T219008 [20:57:43] I'll try to take a look in a bit here. [20:59:19] (CR) Daniel Kinzler: Use getText() instead of getNativeData() (2 comments) [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498480 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155582) (owner: Jayprakash12345) [21:00:58] thanks XenoRyet [21:10:50] (PS19) AndyRussG: Create CampaignChange hook [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/493459 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T217565) [21:13:38] (PS5) AndyRussG: Consolidate construction of campaign URLs [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/497223 (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T217565) [21:13:53] Hmmm Gerrit slow [21:24:07] fundraising-tech-ops: detangle and clean up pam config for new fundraising stretch hosts - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T219038 (Jgreen) a:Jgreen [21:37:42] fundraising-tech-ops: detangle and clean up pam config for new fundraising stretch hosts - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T219038 (Jgreen) Curiously this is on only happening for payments2001 and 2002, several other stretch hosts do not display this issue. [21:51:31] have a great weekend, fr-tech! [22:04:37] fundraising-tech-ops: detangle and clean up pam config for new fundraising stretch hosts - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T219038 (Jgreen) Open→Resolved puppet now explicitly installs libpam-systemd on stretch hosts [22:26:23] fr-tech: good day - question for you: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:CentralNotice#%22Preview_all_approved_translations%22_broken? [22:32:55] (CR) Krinkle: [C: +2] Use better doNotTrack logic from ext-EventLogging [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498478 (owner: Esanders) [22:38:01] (Merged) jenkins-bot: Use better doNotTrack logic from ext-EventLogging [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498478 (owner: Esanders) [22:40:10] hauskatze: that's the first I've heard of it. AndyRussG any ideas? [22:40:45] I never could get it to work ejegg|away and I think I saw a commit about removing the feature [22:40:52] will dig gerrit [22:42:31] hauskatze: hmmm I don't recall anything removing it, but yes it may be broken [22:43:12] perhaps I am getting confused with CentralNoticeXXCountries [22:43:31] but so far I could never use that feature, that I can confirm [22:43:49] (CR) jenkins-bot: Use better doNotTrack logic from ext-EventLogging [extensions/CentralNotice] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/498478 (owner: Esanders) [22:43:53] hauskatze: yeah I think I've had the same experience :( [22:43:56] we should make a task [22:43:56] and probably previewing a banner with several translations is not good [22:44:09] imagine, ie, stewvote, which has dozens [22:44:29] I thought it might have been to preview on translate wiki? [22:44:54] Or maybe it was part of the old inline preview thing, a replacement for which is actually on the way (yay!) [22:45:25] hauskatze: Seddon might have more info, also [22:47:17] AndyRussG: confirmed that it's broken by base as well: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:CentralNotice&curid=175356&diff=18958228&oldid=18958091 [22:49:44] hauskatze: thanks! [22:49:47] phab: T55752, T105558, T158508 [22:49:47] T158508: Discuss new features to facilitate CentralNotice message translation - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T158508 [22:49:48] T105558: CentralNotice: "Preview all approved translations" is dead - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T105558 [22:49:48] T55752: CentralNotice "Preview all approved translations" feature is broken - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T55752 [22:50:06] woooh ok nice [22:50:46] oh and https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/mediawiki/extensions/CentralNotice/+/484784/ <-- ejegg|away [22:50:51] I knew I saw something [22:56:21] yeah and it seems that I have a false memory reporting it or something [22:56:42] though I did upload a screenshot for some reason https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/M200/632/ [22:57:07] Cladis: thanks [22:57:21] hauskatze: ok yeah so it was part of the old broken banner preview thing [22:57:27] thanks [22:58:44] oh Cladis you here as well - even better [22:59:16] well, it's late, and I have a Dirty Harry movie to watch [22:59:53] yeah I stalk a couple of channels as it is [23:01:39] ah I do not have a false memory [23:01:42] it is just by [23:01:43] awight renamed this task from Change (centralnotice-preview-all-template-translations) link target to Discuss new features to facility CentralNotice message translation. [23:01:53] I was totally unable to look the ticket up [23:02:08] how confusing [23:09:17] meh so when I started to work as a php dev I thought it would help me understand mw code. but now that I look at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/diffusion/ECNO/browse/wmf_deploy/special/SpecialCentralNoticeBanners.php I realise that it made the opposite [23:09:47] lol [23:10:07] after being used to templates for html rendering and what not to read this is rather awkward [23:10:42] I'd like to learn PHP but I have so many thing on my to-do list that I have to prioritize [23:11:16] yeah [23:11:37] anyway I am in no productive shape rn too [23:11:51] hopefully I will remember to take a look there tomorrow or so [23:13:10] can you believe I want to buy another mechanical typewritter? [23:13:25] the word another intrigues me [23:13:31] I have one [23:13:38] but yeah, you are a wikimedian so you are bound to be weird :P [23:13:41] we all are [23:13:44] an Olivetti [23:14:04] so you actually use it? [23:14:05] it's okay but I want something more... "professional" [23:14:09] I enjoy typewritting [23:14:18] what do you write with it? [23:14:38] or you have some fancy setup to have it as a keyboard for your pc? :D [23:14:40] letters and important documents that I don't want to store in a computer [23:14:54] interesting [23:15:07] * Cladis starts to wonder about hauskatze's profession [23:15:34] well at least you are not cutting letters from newspapers so sounds safe enough [23:15:40] haha [23:15:51] no, nothing like that [23:16:10] I don't smoke, but if I did, I'd pipe-smoke for sure [23:16:19] :3 [23:16:26] definitely fits the image indeed [23:16:51] but don't worry, I watch color TV :P [23:17:12] the old Telefunken is growing dust in the cellar [23:17:22] well, nowadays watching tv per se is quite antique :P [23:18:43] it is impossible to fix typos on a typewriter isn't it? [23:18:52] it would be a pain to type for me xD [23:19:30] modern typewritters had a "tip-ex" band [23:19:37] modern = electric [23:20:02] it covered the word with a white square, so you can write over it [23:20:03] so you can stick a new letter on top of the old one or something? [23:20:07] lol [23:20:22] that's the idea [23:20:38] however secretaries made very few typos back in the days [23:20:40] in the 90s the typewriters were still a thing here [23:20:48] but I think few made it into 2000s [23:21:31] my mum was sending my granny and me some letters from the university in type, quite fancy xD [23:21:46] also they did not support uk properly so there was some stuff like 1 for і [23:22:54] My typewritter doesn't have 1 or 0 [23:22:59] so we use l and O [23:23:11] which are shaped very similar to 1 and 0 [23:23:22] interesting [23:23:28] the same happens with Courrier-New [23:23:36] l and 1 look very similar [23:23:43] but the layout is a normal qwerty right? [23:23:48] sure [23:24:07] fancy [23:24:28] I sometimes feel ancient because I am used to the 10-button phones [23:24:36] https://goo.gl/images/bSEHWW <-- this one I use [23:25:31] and still know what to do with landline phones like this https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Советский_телефон_ТА-68.JPG since used such for like a decade [23:25:48] oh and floppy disks xd [23:25:51] and tapes xd [23:26:02] but typewriters are certainly a level deeper :3 [23:26:38] oh a fancy one, I think the ones we had here were more simplistic [23:26:45] but I claim no expertise here [23:27:10] <3 telephone [23:27:27] too soviet for my tasting though :P [23:27:41] indeed :) [23:28:28] I remember one very similar to https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FeTAp_611-2.jpg [23:28:38] it is fancy how I didn't live a single day in the USSR still am surrounded by so many attributes of it [23:28:47] I still have landline as it's for free with my internet connection [23:29:09] interesting [23:29:26] my granny got landline only like dunno 15 years ago [23:29:35] and at that time it was still a thing [23:29:48] like serious businesses were ought to have a landline number [23:30:02] perception wise at least [23:30:09] I do not think it was regulated somehow [23:30:14] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:TelefonicaTelefono80sCNTE8008-G.jpg <-- oh, found it [23:30:20] good memories [23:30:39] but nowadays everyone just uses mobile and nobody bothers to connect to landline in new houses [23:30:55] well, landline isn't free here [23:31:04] but what we have for free in older houses is radio [23:31:13] national radio station and a couple of its forks [23:31:25] it is like an emergency notification system [23:31:27] although https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Baquelita-madre-plasticos_1_1236003.jpg looks so "Gentleman" :P [23:31:33] in case we are nuked or whatever [23:31:40] probably just bombed [23:31:46] Cladis: CB radio? [23:31:51] like, channel 9 [23:32:20] nah, as far as I can tell, no even a real radio [23:32:24] as it is wired [23:32:29] ah [23:32:52] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Emz_gromkogovoritel_face.jpg?uselang=uk [23:33:02] I //think/// in the event of some sort of national emergency the gov can send us messages via tv, radio, phone, etc. [23:33:08] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Трехпрограммный_абонентский_приемник_Электроника_ПТ-209.JPG?uselang=uk [23:33:17] https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Абонентська_радіоточка [23:33:43] so it's a radio w/o a dial? [23:33:48] judging from interwikis is quite a soviet thingy [23:34:12] well, there are 3 buttons sometimes [23:34:25] or like a tumbler to switch between them [23:34:29] to select one of the channels [23:34:37] afaik uk still tests the bomb raid sirens once a month somewhere [23:34:40] but it does not use radiowaves [23:34:50] uk = great britain [23:34:54] not ukraine [23:35:09] yeah the uk is greedy they took both uk and gb codes [23:35:13] leaving us with ua [23:35:32] well we do have some system as well I think, not sure [23:35:37] no cyrillic tld for you either? [23:35:54] .укр [23:35:57] there is one [23:36:01] ukr [23:36:06] yeah [23:36:17]