[10:14:50] hi all, do let me know if any of you can give me an hint how to fix this? https://kn.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B2%9F%E0%B3%86%E0%B2%82%E0%B2%AA%E0%B3%8D%E0%B2%B2%E0%B3%87%E0%B2%9F%E0%B3%81:Time_ago/testcases [15:21:48] Hi [15:27:12] Kab shuru hone waala hain? [15:27:38] i guess 9am IST [15:28:04] 5 more minutes? [15:28:26] *2 [15:28:36] Great! [15:29:39] Meanwhile this is what DC is hosting today - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/DC/WikiSalon [15:31:40] Hi Satdeep [15:31:48] hello amir [15:32:15] Hello Satdeep. :-) [15:32:33] Kaise ho bhai? [15:32:39] hey all :) [15:32:39] hello :) [15:32:51] parveer is also here [15:33:06] Hello Parveer Jee :) [15:33:07] Ravidreams where are you? :D [15:33:11] hello [15:33:29] Hi [15:33:30] Sailesh - Magic trick? [15:33:46] haha [15:33:59] nice name abhi ? [15:34:25] Aapka - Abhishek Suryawanshi [15:34:41] oh wah g wah [15:34:45] Ravi will live 100yrs :) [15:34:46] Hi Parveer, satdeep [15:34:56] Who else is here from pa community [15:35:00] hello ravi [15:35:06] gaurav is coming [15:35:08] hello sir [15:35:11] i guess one more user [15:35:18] That's nice [15:35:30] Parveer, please call me Ravi :) [15:35:38] This is amazing initiative by Panjabi Community. : [15:35:51] ok [15:36:04] the initiative is by Ravi [15:36:13] Wikimedia India Chapter [15:36:56] Ravi - Great :) [15:37:07] gaurav is here :) [15:37:46] hi gaurav [15:37:52] OK, shall we get started? :) [15:37:53] Gaurav ji Namaste _/|\_ [15:39:31] namast.. sat sri akaal to all [15:39:46] Hi Gaurav :) [15:40:01] hello ravi sir [15:40:19] First of all, I would like to thank Punjabi community for accepting my request to join this IRC session [15:40:48] you are welcome ravi.... in fact we have the pleasure to be a part of this [15:40:50] we are thankful too sir [15:40:53] welcome [15:40:58] The intention is to increase cross-community interaction, document what we are all doing and learn from each other. [15:41:32] For example, Marathi community has run a photothon with an exclusive android app which is an awesome initiative [15:41:54] yes i heard about that from Santosh... [15:42:09] Gaurav, every time a Wikipedian calls me Sir, a kitten cries :) [15:42:13] Please call me ravi [15:42:16] this is actually a good intiative [15:42:47] yaah.. i have seen too.. its very easy to access and upload the pics directly on wiki. its really a good activity. [15:42:51] Ok, let's just get started. I will leave it to Parveer, Gaurav and Satdeep [15:43:07] to introduce themselves and punjabi Wikipedia [15:44:34] Parveer? [15:44:40] i m parveer grewal and editing from last one and half years. [15:45:02] in hindi and punjabi wiki [15:45:18] so i am Satdeep Gill [15:45:29] I made my wiki account more than 5 years ago [15:45:46] myself gaurav jhammat and am on punjabi wikipedia from last one years. [15:45:56] That's great [15:46:13] I know Satdeep came to pa wiki through his father (or is it other way around) [15:46:14] i have been editing regularly on pa.wiki for last 2 and half years [15:46:23] no ravi [15:46:27] How do you people generally discover pa wiki? [15:46:38] actually [15:46:47] i found en wiki 5 years ago [15:46:52] then i created my account [15:47:01] and then after an year or so [15:47:10] i found about pa.wiki [15:47:25] so i talked to my father about it [15:47:30] he didnt have much knowledge [15:47:37] but he motivated to keep on doing that [15:47:44] he helped me a bit [15:48:03] That's nice. I also know some other parents who encourage their children to edit wik [15:48:06] which is a nice thing [15:48:13] so after an year or so i helped my father create his account [15:48:15] i am using en wikipedia from last three or four years but i come to know about pa wiki from my friend satdeep gill who told and motivated me for coming on it. [15:48:30] and i taught him all the basics [15:48:48] he is a fast learner and currently has the maximum edits of pa .wiki [15:48:48] Ya, I am aware pa community is really close knit [15:49:22] Are there contributors who just land in pa wiki directly? [15:49:26] Say by Google search [15:50:00] satdeeep introduced it to me [15:50:27] This is something that I can try finding using analytics - how many people arrive through Google. [15:50:50] (not immediately, though) [15:50:51] wow, aharoni [15:50:57] You are here ! [15:50:59] welcome [15:51:13] well there is a user who recently came to pa.wiki through our facebook group [15:52:05] aharoni|mobile: We requested more insightful stats during India Community Consultation. For example, what do people search, where do they come from etc., [15:53:00] Wikimedia Foundation should be able to provide at least some of this info. [15:53:28] sorry guys [15:53:31] Great. Tools like http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikitrends/hindi-most-visited-today.html give some idea of popular demand and help us improve them [15:54:06] Satdeep: That's good to know. [15:54:22] @ravidreams it is indeed a good tool!! [15:54:25] i thought to observe pa wiki IRC but my internet is not supporting me [15:54:29] and he is from haryana [15:54:36] i think coming directly on pa wiki by google etc is little tough for us currently bcoz as english is a language of so many users on internet but punjabi people use not so much punjabi for google searching [15:54:51] In Tamil's case, when new users sign up, we explicitly ask them to tell how they found out about Tamil Wikipedia. We leave this request in new user welcome template [15:55:03] So, we know which of our outreach methods work [15:55:22] gaurav_ this is an issue I am aware of, and I'm looking for ways to fix it. [15:55:39] it's complicated, but possible [15:56:14] ravi we will talk about this thing and try it on pa.wiki [15:56:37] Sure [15:56:59] I see a Google.co.in homepage in Punjabi with a Punjabi keyboard too [15:57:34] What would be a popular search trend for Punjabis that they will search in Punjabi only? [15:57:47] It may help to find this and create content focusing on this [15:57:54] to bring search engine visitors [15:58:14] yaah satdeep its can be very effective ... like putting as reason to come or method to come on wiki in welcome template [15:58:14] For us, it was movies [15:58:29] but how will we know [15:58:47] we need most visited tool for pa wiki [15:59:16] I have requested that tool for all Indian languages. Will follow up with the director [15:59:39] Well, the popular demand can be inutitive on what people talk during real life [15:59:42] magazines [15:59:45] facebook, blogs [15:59:55] It can be Cricket [15:59:58] or Music [16:00:44] well first of all i think we will have to teach people to type Punjabi on their pcs [16:01:09] Ye, it's a primary issue for all our languages [16:01:52] i think most trends in punjabi are music songs [16:01:55] sports [16:02:17] Another issue is not knowing to write formal, encyclopeadic style [16:02:27] or lack of higher education in our languages [16:02:44] Hi everyone. sorry for joining late. Can someone please help me to know the discussion point? [16:02:52] Hi Priyanka [16:03:04] We are generally discussing about Punjabi Wikipedia [16:03:06] hello guys [16:03:09] How people discover it [16:03:15] What are the pain points [16:03:38] ok [16:03:54] gaurav_: How is the general ecosystem in Punjabi [16:03:54] yaah.. new user always face a problem that how can he write a a rticle in wiki style.. [16:04:02] Do you have newspapers, blogs in Unicode [16:04:27] Government website? [16:04:42] friends gurlal is here [16:04:50] Hi Gurlal [16:04:58] he has also been editing wiki for a few months now [16:05:04] gurlal introduce urself [16:05:15] yaah they are in unicode and people read them online too [16:06:00] Gurlal ? [16:06:01] That's nice [16:07:04] I even e-mailed google and microsoft to help them improve their transliteration tools [16:07:14] but recieved no reply :( [16:07:17] people search govt sites maximum which are related to jobs and vacancies [16:07:29] like ppsc ssc upsc [16:07:55] Are these sites in Punjabi at least the state level ones [16:08:08] yaah [16:08:33] Satdeep_: Mail me those issues in detail. I will try to push it through proper channels [16:09:00] issues are that we need to collaborate to get proper spellings [16:09:06] I will mail you :) [16:09:17] That's Good to know. Then Punjabi is already has better chance of flourishing than 99% languages in the world :) [16:09:37] How so ? [16:10:19] Being a state language and being present online itself is an achievement for many languages now [16:10:20] satdeep we need really a most visited tool of pawiki [16:10:22] good to know [16:11:37] Wiki doesn't flourish by itself. It needs an ecosystem where knowledge exchange happens online in native language [16:11:44] But punjabi is divided into two scripts [16:11:56] When some of the new Wikis asked me for suggestion, I insited that they write in their own language in social networks [16:12:04] And they are now being considered two different languages [16:12:14] That's really a sorry state [16:12:23] Somewhat like Urdu and Hindi I guess [16:13:21] well yes almost [16:13:58] For those who are new to this issue - http://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/08/08/two-shades-of-wikipedia-in-punjabi/ [16:14:01] is a good read [16:14:53] A few days back an urdu wikipedian created an article about his city on pa.wiki [16:15:02] no.. its punjabi on both sides (ind and pak) but in pakistan, punjabi is written in a script which is script of urdu actually.. and thats a national pressure on them to use it.. [16:15:04] So we have hopes [16:15:18] sateep.. its good to know [16:15:28] in which script? [16:15:35] gurmukhi or shahmukhi? [16:15:38] gurmukhi pa.wiki [16:15:45] shahmukhi wiki is pnb.wiki [16:16:12] I even connected with him on facebook [16:16:28] Satdeep_ Those are same language but in different scripts? [16:17:10] I understand it started with script change but due to disconnect for so many decades may be developed many other changes [16:17:11] Yes Sailesh [16:17:27] for example, new words with local influence [16:17:31] am I right? [16:17:31] like konkani has five diffrent scripts [16:17:40] Yes ravi [16:18:11] after partition in Pakistan the punjabi is more influenced by urdu [16:18:29] and it is quite influenced by Hindi in Indian Punjab [16:18:39] Satdeep, I see they have almost double the articles buut less activity [16:18:49] Is pnb wiki useful as a reference [16:19:04] Like, you can change script and use most of the content as is? [16:19:09] or vice versa? [16:19:15] They using your content? [16:19:30] Yes they do use our content [16:20:33] Once in a while I and my father edit there as well [16:21:22] we have also used some useful content [16:21:22] Nice, anyway you edit at least one language in each continent :) [16:21:52] Is there any formal interaction between both the communities ? [16:22:02] but sadly there is only one active editor who has created most of the articles [16:22:05] about growing together or sharing work ect [16:22:11] and many of them are one lines [16:22:14] no..no interaction [16:22:45] bcoz there is only one active editor in pnb.wiki [16:22:57] There isn't any community to interact to [16:23:15] i talked a few times to the sysop on pnb.wiki [16:23:17] thats it [16:24:05] bcoz there is only one active editor in pnb.wiki [16:24:20] well now we have to think what to do ? [16:24:53] the govt. there doesnt support punjabi although its the mother tongue of more than 60% of the population [16:25:07] Maybe we should start supporting from here ? [16:26:03] yaah.. there can be some conversion tool who display the data of any article on a single page. wwe have to just change the script [16:26:04] Like pressuring Google or Microsoft to create input tools for Shahmukhi ? [16:26:36] Maybe that is going to derail us right now [16:26:58] For the moment we should think about expanding the movement in Punjab [16:27:10] Lets see what Parveer has to say about this ? [16:27:29] Pakistan don't have any chapter or grp? [16:27:49] Yes, let us focus in Punjab (India) now. [16:27:55] Pakistan has a user group [16:28:05] Yes Ravi I agree [16:28:11] which again is dependent on very few volunteers like saqib [16:28:21] yaah i agree too [16:28:26] So i think we need to do outreach [16:28:39] I just wanted to know about pnb wiki as it is one potential strength [16:28:48] Saqib edits pnb.wiki ? [16:28:56] I also found that there are no page view stats like these for Punjabi [16:28:57] http://stats.grok.se/ta/201502/இந்தியா [16:29:09] small things like these we have to bring for all Indian languages [16:29:56] Yes Ravi [16:29:57] Saqib is from Pakistan [16:30:04] mostly editing en wiki I guess [16:30:29] Ravi what should we do about this ? [16:30:34] It is already 10 !! Can you guys hang around for some more time [16:30:55] yes sure [16:30:58] Thanks [16:30:58] Yes Ravi [16:31:11] yaah ravi.. [16:31:28] Satdeep_: Anything that is an issue for other wikis too, WMIN will try to pursue it and find a solution [16:31:40] Regarding presssurizing Google and Microsoft, it won't work [16:31:46] They go by market research [16:31:48] So Ravi we have some issues with some tools at the bottom of Contributions page [16:32:00] That's why I ask you to use your language heavily in social media [16:32:03] like edit counts etc. which doesnt work [16:32:12] they track those stats for deciding where to invest money and effort [16:32:56] we regularly post in Punjabi Wiki group [16:33:02] Lobbying will help in state government level. [16:33:16] I post somethings in English to reach other communities [16:33:27] No, I don't mean about wiki activities alone [16:33:42] The whole population needs to communicate in native language about all topics and eveywhere [16:33:49] Wikipedians can be like seeds [16:33:56] I get it [16:33:59] Others will see you and start writing in Punjabi [16:34:07] sometimes, it can be a matter of prestige issue too [16:34:13] you need to break that taboo [16:34:16] Should we do some outreach to teach people how to type in Punjabi ? [16:34:36] Yes, may be you can organize blogging contests [16:34:43] this is outside wiki [16:34:52] you can engage with other leading bloggers [16:34:55] yaah.. its good.. [16:35:28] actually we should start some contest related to this [16:36:01] Basically, you guys are pioneers [16:36:14] without burning yourself out, you need to engage in off-wiki activities too [16:36:21] and nurture the ecosystem [16:36:24] it takes lot of time [16:36:27] but it is the only way [16:36:33] I just saw https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias/ [16:36:39] and found you have 82 active users [16:36:44] which is very very good [16:36:48] well yes [16:36:56] the number rose recently [16:37:04] Happy you sustained the momentum gathered during November contest [16:37:10] otherwise it was near 50 [16:37:20] yes that contest really helped a lot [16:37:39] We will be organizing one such contest every year i guess [16:37:53] Good time to ping stewards again to request bureaucrat access [16:37:57] or elect more sysops [16:38:12] satdeep but this time we need more contests as ravi is saying [16:38:39] for promoting use pf punjabi on social media [16:38:43] well yes we will discuss that in our 14 march meet up [16:39:07] Gaurav lets make that a point to discuss in our meet up as wel [16:39:08] well [16:39:25] Wiki is like Project Tiger [16:39:35] yaah i have note it [16:39:41] To nurture tigers, you have to nurture whole forest :) [16:40:22] true..... [16:40:29] i get what you are saying [16:40:57] nice to see such hard work of all you ppl... just a small suggestion regarding organising contest... can we involve ppl who work/visit gurudwaras... because as per my experience, there you can find many ppl enthusiastic about their language and culture. [16:41:41] well another good point... [16:41:50] noted Priyanka [16:41:55] its good point [16:42:34] Seeing http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/SummaryPA.htm [16:42:52] I would like to understand why the project did not take off until 2013 [16:43:08] But at the same time we need to be careful about neutral point of view [16:43:31] although there aresuch problems like people related to gurudwaras are generallly far away from web and social media. they are so difficult to convince to come on such type of activities [16:43:54] One such example where it is compromised is http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Main_Page [16:44:10] It is hard to reach one by one [16:44:23] May be you can try print media most read by such people [16:44:47] For documentation purpose, here are some recent activities by Punjabi Wiki Community - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Punjabi_Wikipedia_Article_Writing_Competition [16:45:20] True Ravi we need to reach people via print media [16:45:22] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Punjabi_Wikipedia_One_on_One_Workshops [16:45:43] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Punjabi_Wikimedia_Online_Outreach [16:46:48] So what should be our task right now ? [16:46:59] Ha ha [16:47:28] Before move on to that, I would like to understand http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/SummaryPA.htm [16:47:41] Is there a specific reason pa wiki did not take off till 2013 [16:47:49] besides the lack of contributors [16:47:59] for example, problems with fonts, typing tools etc., [16:48:51] well i guess people didnt know about that [16:48:59] typing has always been an issue [16:50:20] ok [16:50:32] Is this March 14 meetup [16:50:40] a regular one you are planning [16:50:44] yes [16:51:01] we are planning to have a meet up almost every month [16:51:12] That's nice [16:51:53] Do you have any planned activities like Feminism project coming up (May be you can extend the edit-a-thon for whole month ! ) [16:52:22] well yes we will be editing those articles in the whole month [16:52:33] I have added them in recentchanges page [16:52:39] just like you told me [16:52:41] Nice [16:53:16] http://ta.2015.wikiwomen.in/ [16:53:16] I will get stats for Punjabi like this [16:53:17] soon [16:53:21] let's compete :) [16:53:55] So okay sure [16:54:00] bring it on :p [16:54:21] who will add everything here ? [16:54:23] Ravi how we can create this for our language like or.wikiwomen? [16:55:07] we are already working for oria [16:55:20] You just need to add one category for all the articles [16:55:30] we will use that category to pull the stats [16:55:58] okay cool [16:56:16] you will check yourself whether there are edits or new article [16:56:18] great [16:56:19] bn, ne, or, pa all stats will be available soon [16:56:20] :) [16:56:29] ya, it is a cron job (bot) [16:56:30] good news [16:56:50] Great (y) [16:56:51] I will tell everyone about wiki womens month [16:57:16] I also noted that Punjabi has the highest ratio of women participating in this ! [16:58:02] Satdeep_: I really don't have anything like tasks in mind [16:58:07] thank you :) [16:58:08] It is just an idea echange [16:58:14] okay cool [16:58:16] are you trying to do something and need help in particulat [16:58:35] well thanks for the scholarship [16:58:48] For any tech help, you can ping here - http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Technical_Help_Desk [16:59:15] we have some bugs issues [16:59:32] Well, I am more than glad that we are able to support the right needs - http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Infrastructure_Scholarship#Reference_Books_for_User:Satdeep_Gill_and_User:Charan_Gill [16:59:38] Please inform about those bugs [16:59:45] we will try to get some bug experts :) [16:59:53] okay [17:00:17] Do you have any message for other communities? Like something you tried and that worked well [17:01:08] well yes i think other communities can also try some contest [17:01:27] Yes, your contest is a good model [17:01:31] one on one workshops have been really helpful in making a healthy community [17:01:43] How do you manage to enroll so many friends and contacts [17:01:53] Because they don't cost anything [17:01:55] There are people who see us like LIC agents and run away :) [17:01:59] Here comes the wiki man :) [17:02:08] Is there any secret tip there? :) [17:02:20] Well that is going to happen to me as well [17:02:27] We can not force those people [17:02:28] Ha Ha [17:02:34] ofcourse [17:02:41] But i do is find potential editors [17:02:47] and teach them [17:02:48] Still, you have a very high success rate :) [17:02:57] and regularly motivate them [17:03:02] what do you mean by potential editor [17:03:08] face to face as well as on phone [17:03:12] how do you judge that [17:03:34] Suppose i talk to my whole about Wikipedia [17:03:47] that the potentail editor himself or herself approaches me [17:04:02] i basicaly started with my close friends [17:04:11] In my regular Punjabi class [17:04:18] my french class [17:04:33] So focussing on friends is a good option [17:04:53] Recently a classmate of mine showed interest and said that she wanted to contribute [17:05:00] so i have invited her to our meet [17:05:08] Nice [17:05:23] I have even convinced my sister to contribute to wiki [17:05:33] although she wasnt much interested at first [17:05:41] Well I tried and was told one per family is enough :) [17:05:45] Great work Satdeep. :-) [17:06:05] but she created the most article as a female in recent edit-a-thon [17:06:15] i even taught my mother to create an account [17:06:21] *Like* [17:06:22] create an article acutally [17:06:42] she created one article during the edit-a-thon [17:07:10] Yours is a true Wiki family :) [17:07:22] So my message is that at first one should not think about big workshops or anything like that [17:07:30] Just focus on people around [17:07:37] Roger that ! [17:07:37] See who can do it [17:07:51] Talk to everyone and then see who shows interest [17:08:14] Well i also motivate by telling how this will help their language [17:08:30] and also give them an identity as a wiki editor [17:09:13] Just one time workshops are not enough [17:09:18] Yes, [17:09:24]