[00:02:27] The instance creation blank page is fixed. [00:02:40] ah. cool [00:02:44] what was the issue? [00:02:53] also, are arecords being added? [00:03:22] yep. arecords are being applied [00:04:44] hosts for new instances were being created as public rather than private hosts. [00:04:50] oh. weird [00:04:58] I don't understand why that wasn't glaringly obvious on nova-precise2 though [00:05:03] heh [00:05:13] Well, I guess, actually -- the ldap records were getting created as private. [00:05:21] It was just the ephemeral host object that was wrong. [00:05:33] So it only mattered for the split second after creation and before the page finished. [00:05:55] oh. ok [00:06:09] how was the ephemeral being created incorrectly? [00:06:27] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/86208/ [00:06:42] :D [00:06:43] I see [00:06:45] yep! [00:08:11] ok. I sent an update to the list [00:11:12] looks good -- are you still fixing certs or is that done already? [00:14:42] still fixing them [00:21:18] Ryan_Lane, need to go feed fish and self, but I'll keep laptop in earshot -- page me if you find other broken things. [00:21:25] * Ryan_Lane nods [00:21:40] we're going to head off for food too. I think everything except puppet is good now [00:22:01] and that should be fixing itself [01:57:01] [bz] (8RESOLVED - created by: 2Yuvi Panda, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6normal) [Bug 54636] wikitech.wikimedia.org needs to have VE enabled - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54636 [01:57:13] Ryan_Lane: ^ the pref seems to be set to 'off' [01:59:52] Change on 12mediawiki a page Wikimedia Labs/Tool Labs/Migration of Toolserver tools was modified, changed by Sharihareswara (WMF) link https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?diff=790949 edit summary: /* How will Toolserver tools work on Wikimedia Labs? */ help link [02:20:47] hmm [02:20:53] I get permission denied for my public key [02:20:57] when logging in via bastion?!? [02:34:28] Ryan_Lane: Coren getting 'Connection closed by UNKNOWN' when trying to ssh to a new instance [02:35:00] Are you a member of the project this instance is in? [02:35:30] Coren: indeed [02:35:36] What instance? [02:35:39] Coren: bd808 just created the instance, and is getting the same error [02:35:41] Coren: bd808-test [02:35:45] in project multimedia [02:36:22] ... you do realize it takes quite a while before puppet runs and completes when first creating an instance, right? [02:36:37] Coren: usually it says 'RUNNING' or similar in the interface when that happens [02:36:47] before now I've always been able to log in when it says 'ACTIVE' [02:37:23] That just means the instance has been booted; it may take >15 min before puppet runs enough time for the box to be valid; sometimes more when the apt update takes a bit. [02:37:38] ah. reasonable [02:38:07] And that may fail completely if you configured any puppet class when creating it (hence the warning on that page) [02:38:14] heh [02:38:27] we should hide that with CSS or something [02:38:37] 'hey! look at this! don't do anything here, okay? move along...' [02:38:42] Coren: also, have you seen https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Labsvagrant? [02:41:12] Coren: I'm not able to log in to proxy-project-proxy either [02:41:15] Coren: says 'public key denied' [02:41:25] Coren: which... is weird? since I was logged in there just a bit before [02:41:30] and I'm part of the project [02:41:31] admin even [02:41:37] That /is/ wierf [02:41:41] wierd* [02:42:06] this is instance proxy-project-proxy on project project-proxy [02:42:11] Hmmm. [02:42:14] let met ry another [02:42:17] *let me try another [02:42:24] oh hmm [02:42:28] Coren: i can login to other instances [02:42:30] on that project [02:42:39] I wonder if it is labsvagrant messing things up [02:43:06] labsvagrant doesn't really have anything for ssh [02:43:09] Coren: can you login with root key? [02:43:20] I suppose it's possible; but I can't log in to those instances with the root key either so it's nasty. [02:43:31] so that instance is pretty much, uh, lost? [02:43:43] * Coren idly wonders if Ryan_Lane's DNS changes might have something to do with that. [02:43:48] Ryan_Lane: ^^ [02:44:14] it is just *one* instance tho [02:44:28] Well, two. [02:44:40] they have *different* errors [02:44:47] one says 'Closed by UNKNOWN' [02:44:48] But everywhere else I semi randomly test works. [02:44:51] other says something else [02:44:52] yeah [02:44:52] hmph. [02:45:07] Coren: why can't you login with root key? [02:45:21] bd808-test just gives me permission denied [02:45:28] you aren't ont he project [02:45:30] wait [02:45:36] permission denied means that sshd is u [02:45:37] p [02:45:41] YuviPanda: I can't very well go and check the logs if I can't log in to that box. [02:45:48] I know ssh is up. [02:45:49] indeed [02:46:13] * Coren ponders. [02:46:14] Coren: added you to multimedia [02:46:29] and admin [02:46:29] That won't change root key access. :-) [02:46:32] right [02:46:43] oh wait [02:46:50] you said you can't login to *those* two instances with root key [02:46:52] okay [02:46:54] i misunderstood [02:46:55] nevermind [02:46:57] maeks sense now [02:48:28] bd808: of course, there is the usual step 3.1 of 'wait, this part of labs seems to be slightly broken!' [02:48:47] http://dpaste.de/19AJp/ [02:49:07] pretty much the same here [02:49:26] Coren: I created a new instance called silver-hammer, same output as bd808-test [02:49:37] How long ago? [02:49:44] bd808: clearly sshd is up, but somehow connection is closed. Is that raelly a puppet issue? [02:49:53] Ryan_Lane: andrewbogott_afk: You have teh broken something. [02:50:19] YuviPanda: ssh config comes from puppet, including things like authorized groups etc. [02:50:24] YuviPanda: I.e.: yes. [02:50:30] sure, but wouldn't that be a publickey denied? [02:50:36] rather than a UNKNOWN [02:52:01] Coren: can you say /what/ is broken? :D [02:52:32] let's blame glusterfs [02:52:34] :P [02:52:37] new instance creation, for puppet runs? [02:52:43] YuviPanda: we made a giant dns change today [02:52:58] yeah, i read the backscroll [02:53:09] new instance creation is probably broken, yeah [02:53:14] s/probably/potentially/ [02:53:24] what happens? [02:53:34] Ryan_Lane: http://dpaste.de/19AJp/ [02:53:49] Connection closed by UNKNOWN [02:55:01] is this a lucid or precise image? [02:55:10] precise [02:55:12] and was it just created? [02:55:18] yeah [02:55:22] ok [02:55:24] 12.04, just created about 10 minutes ago [02:55:30] I just created an instance, to double check. [02:55:31] oohhhh [02:55:32] crap [02:55:33] sorry [02:55:35] Too early to judge though [02:55:47] All defaults on the creation form [02:55:48] created 2013-09-27T02:47:32Z [02:55:50] totally my fault [02:56:06] I had disabled the puppet-signer cron while I was fixing the puppet issues [02:56:09] and didn't re-enable it [02:56:15] so puppet wasn't signing certs [02:56:22] which means no puppet run [02:56:25] ah. that would be a problem [02:57:04] would that also explain why proxy-project-proxy gives me a permission denied? [02:57:10] So those instances will revive in 30? [02:57:14] YuviPanda: no [02:57:22] andrewbogott: new ones? yeah [02:57:36] though it's weird that root ssh isn't working either [02:57:43] Ryan_Lane: heh, any idea why proxy-project-proxy gives me a permission denied? :D [02:57:44] that should work immediately when the instance boots [02:57:46] Ryan_Lane: the instance is still up [02:57:53] and it's like, months old [02:57:57] hm [02:57:59] and I was ssh'd in before I went to sleep [02:58:03] it's also giving me permission denied [02:58:27] YuviPanda: you broke it with dream hacking! [02:58:30] I was trying out labsvagrant stuff on it - so it *might* be labsvagrant - but I doubt it, since the vagrant puppet files don't touch sshconfig [02:58:38] and it was working fine before that [02:58:38] so [02:58:53] bd808: shushhh, no broadcasting my secret :P [02:59:13] * bd808 knows that YuviPanda knows there is no spoon [02:59:27] there's no chopstick [02:59:28] only fork [02:59:40] and spork [02:59:54] YuviPanda: is that the proxy host that actually handles the proxying? [02:59:58] Ryan_Lane: nope [03:00:01] Ryan_Lane: that's proxy-dammit [03:00:04] right [03:00:12] have you tried rebooting? [03:00:14] Ryan_Lane: this is my 'test' host [03:00:17] does the vagrant stuff modify the ssh config? [03:00:21] nope [03:00:48] it pokes MOTD [03:00:53] try rebooting ;) [03:00:54] is the closest to ssh it does anything [03:00:59] maybe you OOM'd it or something [03:01:04] does it set a robots.txt? [03:01:14] rebooting [03:01:16] does it do the other things the labs wiki role does? [03:01:19] Ryan_Lane: the *instance* is up [03:01:27] since I could hit the webserver via instanceproxy [03:01:29] we did a whole bunch of crap that legal wanted us to do [03:01:55] Ryan_Lane: define 'it'. dynamic proxy doesn't do robots.txt special handling, no [03:02:08] no, I mean the vagrant stuff [03:02:20] hm. this new instance surely isn't working... [03:02:35] that makes no sense... [03:02:46] Ryan_Lane: vagrant stuff was just me testing at the closest available self puppet thing. has nothing to do with the proxy project [03:03:19] Ryan_Lane: ah, and a robots.txt for labsvagrant makes sense, although I wonder if we should handle that at the proxy level itself? [03:03:36] it's working in puppet [03:03:56] what is 'it'? [03:03:58] robots.txt? [03:04:02] or new instance? [03:04:04] YuviPanda: well, the labs role does all kinds of stuff [03:04:14] I meant this instance I'm testing, sorry ;) [03:04:14] *which* labs role? [03:04:16] Ryan_Lane, my 10-minute-old instance is working fine, personal and root key both. [03:04:18] ah, right :) [03:04:22] Ryan_Lane: rebooting bd808-test fixed ti [03:04:33] andrewbogott: hm. I guess maybe the image doesn't work like it should any more :( [03:04:36] s/ti/it/ [03:04:42] Ryan_Lane: proxy-project-proxy rebooted, no luck yet. [03:04:43] that sucks. [03:04:47] how so? [03:04:51] YuviPanda: sometimes it takes a bit [03:04:56] * YuviPanda reboots silver hammer [03:05:10] andrewbogott: the image itself is configured to allow immediate login [03:05:35] oooohhhhhhh [03:05:40] project=`ldapsearch -x -D ${binddn} -w ${bindpw} -b ${hostsou} "dc=${id}" puppetvar | grep 'instanceproject' | sed 's/.*=//'` [03:06:05] Ryan_Lane: okay, rebootign fixed silver-hammer too [03:06:44] what, doesn't let me sudo!? [03:08:52] Ryan_Lane: hmm, I can sudo fine on multimedia-dragons, but not on silver-hammer. same project, silver-hammer is new [03:09:06] YuviPanda: yeah, something was broken [03:09:07] how new? [03:09:13] do a puppet run and try again [03:09:19] Ryan_Lane: can't do puppet run, can't be root [03:09:23] :D [03:09:27] Ryan_Lane: about 10 mins :P [03:09:31] 'be root so you can be root' [03:09:43] I'm doing a run [03:09:52] elitist! [03:09:58] err: Could not retrieve catalog from remote server: Error 400 on SERVER: Duplicate definition: Class[Role::Labsvagrant] is already defined; cannot redefine at /etc/puppet/manifests/role/labsvagrant.pp:5 on node i-000008f9.pmtpa.wmflabs [03:10:04] did you build it with that class? [03:10:40] Ryan_Lane: I just added it [03:10:41] in config [03:10:48] didn't build with it [03:10:50] remove it [03:11:01] doing [03:11:03] also weird error [03:11:16] well, maybe the first puppet run didn't go through? [03:11:19] removed [03:11:28] Should sudo prompt me for a password on a labs instance? (bd808-test) [03:11:46] bd808: no [03:11:47] one sec [03:11:59] * bd808 thought that was fishy [03:11:59] bd808: same issue I'm having, Ryan_Lane's looking into it [03:12:07] YuviPanda: try now [03:12:10] * bd808 waits patiently [03:12:21] bd808: please remove the vagrant class from the config [03:12:38] Ryan_Lane: still asks for password [03:12:55] Ryan_Lane: {{done}} [03:13:44] which project is this? [03:13:51] Ryan_Lane, are you already forcing a puppet run on silver-hammer? [03:13:56] tools? [03:13:57] If not then I can, I'm logged in as root. [03:14:03] andrewbogott: yeah [03:14:04] multimedia project; bd808-test instance [03:14:05] I did already [03:14:08] ok [03:14:38] same project as silver-hammer FWIW [03:15:31] silver-hammer is multimedia? [03:15:33] or tools? [03:15:42] multimedia [03:16:03] one sec [03:16:13] hm. weird [03:16:30] ah [03:16:47] delete these instances [03:16:49] they're broken [03:17:27] any instance built since the dns change is [03:17:36] delete bd808-test: {{done}} [03:17:36] till about 5 mins ago [03:18:06] yeah, seems fixed now [03:18:10] yep. is [03:18:11] let me delete mine [03:18:12] too [03:18:43] there's a script that runs when the instance is created and it changes come canned values in config files on the image [03:18:57] it was broken, and all of the config files got something set incorrectly [03:19:31] right [03:19:50] Ryan_Lane: thanks! new instance came right up with ssh and sudo working [03:19:54] great [03:20:03] Coren: ^^ see! :D [03:20:34] so much shit to test when a large change is done :( [03:20:38] hehe [03:20:44] now on to step 4 in my plan to learn how to use labs [03:20:47] :D [03:20:57] Ryan_Lane: any idea of why proxy-project-proxy gives me publickey denied? [03:22:01] I knew it was Ryan's fault. :-) [03:22:40] Oh, and by the way: I called it back in March: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamMachines/ [03:23:26] Ryan_Lane: also any idea about the 'duplicate definition of role::labsvagrant' error? [03:24:56] another n00b question: bd808-test seemed to have my same homedir as multimedia-dragons, but new multimedia-bd808 does not [03:25:13] SteamOS: Linux tuned for gaming with steam on top. Q: "Can I download the OS to try it out?" [03:25:13] Which is "normal" [03:25:13] A: "You will be able to download it (including the source code, if you're into that) but not yet." [03:25:21] Gabe Gets It [03:27:25] bd808: so [03:27:32] bd808: by default the instances do not get NFS [03:27:32] pearl-hammer (new instance YuviPanda just created) also has my homedir [03:27:34] bd808: but get glusterfs [03:27:44] bd808: homedir is on either glusterfs or nfs [03:27:54] bd808: but glusterfs sucks, so all the multimedia-* stuff is on nfs [03:28:15] then step 4 is "get nfs homedir" [03:28:16] bd808: you can enable the ' role::labsnfs::client ' to enable nfs [03:28:24] bd808: yup. I don't know why it isn't default, tho [03:28:28] Ryan_Lane: Coren ^ [03:29:01] bd808: get nfs homedir is 1. enable role, 2. run puppet with 'sudo puppetd -tv', 3. restart instance [03:29:28] It's not the default because we aren't confident about the hardware issue yet; I'm currently redoing labstore4 with the older driver and (obviously) different hardware. If that plays well, we'll probably start migrating en masse. [03:32:06] YuviPanda: step 4 {{done}}, now to try your new role [03:32:16] bd808: did you check it mounted properly? [03:32:18] mount? [03:32:34] homedir is there now [03:32:49] reboot was practically instant! [03:32:59] weee! [03:34:35] Ryan_Lane: ! [03:34:36] Ryan_Lane: info: Creating a new SSL key for pearl-hammer.pmtpa.wmflabs [03:34:41] Ryan_Lane: err: Could not request certificate: getaddrinfo: Name or service not known [03:34:44] Ryan_Lane: Exiting; failed to retrieve certificate and waitforcert is disabled [03:35:02] Ryan_Lane: oh, don't mind me. apparently that happens if you forgot to become root [03:36:02] Coren: I wonder if 'err: Could not retrieve catalog from remote server: Error 400 on SERVER: Duplicate definition: Class[Role::Labsvagrant] is already defined; cannot redefine at /etc/puppet/manifests/role/labsvagrant.pp:5 on node i-000008fe.pmtpa.wmflabs' is a side effect of how that role was added to the interface? [03:37:06] Well, that only allows adding the role to the node definition through the web interface. If you check it there /and/ it's included elsewhere... :-) [03:37:53] Coren: it isn't included anywhere! [03:37:56] else [03:38:08] Coren: it is defined there [03:38:22] define != include, right? [03:38:29] YuviPanda: I get the same dup def error when I enable the labsvagrant role via web interface [03:38:38] bd808: I enabled it via the web interface only [03:38:53] * Coren goes to bed. Have fun debugging. [03:38:54] :-) [03:39:11] bd808: and hence we have to wait for tomorrow, since nobody awake now has the rights to debug this issue [03:39:13] grrr [03:39:20] timezones suck [03:39:28] and being awake during the day seems to be completely unworkable for me [03:40:06] Ryan_Lane: you around? [03:40:21] I have "issues" with that too. My brain mostly is creative when I shouldn't be working anymore. [03:41:31] bd808: jet lag has me waking up at 5am [03:41:51] which means I get maybe an hour of time at best with folks in SF before tehy head out [03:41:55] and i'm just waking up at tha tpoint [03:42:50] YuviPanda: ? [03:42:55] It's like 9AM for you now isn't it? [03:42:59] I'm only kind of around [03:43:06] yeah, I figured [03:43:14] Ryan_Lane: anything obvious for '09:06 YuviPanda: Coren: I wonder if 'err: Could not retrieve catalog from remote server: Error 400 on SERVER: Duplicate definition: Class[Role::Labsvagrant] is already defined; cannot redefine at /etc/puppet/manifests/role/labsvagrant.pp:5 on node i-000008fe.pmtpa.wmflabs' is a side effect of how that role was added to the interface? '? [03:43:22] bd808: it's 9AM, yeah. [03:43:24] see why it's being defined twice? [03:44:05] Ryan_Lane: nope. git grep tells me it is being defined only once [03:44:38] if you call it from the node, and then it's called somewhere else... [03:44:53] ooohhhhhh [03:44:54] I know [03:44:54] I just added it to the web interface, and ran puppet. [03:45:12] class { 'labsvagrant': -> class { '::labsvagrant': [03:45:21] *facepalm* [03:45:27] otherwise it gets confused about role::labsvagrant [03:45:28] is it trying to recursively include itself now? [03:45:38] it's a stupid puppetism when you aren't using modules [03:45:52] hurr durr [03:47:18] YuviPanda: It's ~21:45 for me; ~09:15 for you. That's a hard time shift to collaborate across :( [03:47:49] bd808: with people keeping normal hours. My usual timezone more closely mastches EST than IST [03:48:24] I forget that you are a young night owl [03:48:26] bd808: ryan merged my patch before leaving [03:48:33] bd808: so running puppetd works now! [03:48:51] * bd808 tries [03:49:01] bd808: run all commands with sudo, btw. [03:49:35] meaning `sudo vagrantlabs ….`? [03:49:56] sudo labsvagrant yaeh [03:53:12] Seems to be working. Of course I enabled the role that takes a really long time to install [03:53:49] hehe [03:53:52] which one? [03:53:57] role::math [03:54:08] heh [03:54:26] It installs a ton of debs and then compiles ocaml source [03:54:56] sounds like fun;) [03:55:45] It seemed pretty easy to script to me but apparently that's because I'm weird. Lots of folks were impressed that I got it to work [03:56:00] or they were just being nice :) [03:56:07] hehe :P [03:56:53] How does the http proxy part work? What's the url to my `multimedia-bd808` instance [03:57:05] right now [03:57:06] you can use [03:57:12] multimedia-bd808.instance-proxy.wmflabs.org [03:57:23] no ssl but [03:57:53] you were working on ssl for that weren't you? [03:58:14] bd808: yeah, so there's no self-serve mechanism for that yet [03:58:22] you tell me instance name + hostname, and I add it for you D [03:58:23] :D [03:58:36] that's how blue-dragons.wmflabs.org is pointing to multimedia-dragons [04:00:07] Man the vagrant-puppet run is slooooow. [04:00:37] yeah [04:00:42] bd808: what is it doing now? [04:01:01] Scheduling refresh of Service[apache2] [04:01:08] right [04:01:17] i'm trying to enable VE and uw [04:02:03] I should have run with verbose so I wouldn't be so bored watching the console [04:02:16] heh [04:02:40] Ah. it was the giant apt-get pull [04:03:59] And it found a bug in the vagrant puppet stuff! [04:04:35] hmm? [04:04:40] the permission issue with git? [04:05:34] no, apache config parts not happening with the right dependency chain [04:05:50] mod-rewrite not loaded soon enough [04:05:56] ah [04:09:10] Yup. second run fixes it. [04:10:03] So we need some other apache related changes for labs usage... [04:10:22] hitting via proxy redirects to localhost with current config [04:10:41] bd808: indeed. I'm 'fixing' it by adding '$wgServer = "http://pearl-hammer.instance-proxy.wmflabs.org";' [04:10:45] to /vagrant/LocalSettings.php [04:10:59] bd808: i've no idea how to fix that by 'default' tho [04:11:24] I'll think about it. It shouldn't be too hard [04:12:23] If noting else we could add a mediawiki-vagrant role that does that for you [04:12:29] *nothing [04:12:50] bd808: that's not the problem, we can do modifications from the labsvagrant module in ops/puppet [04:12:58] bd808: problem is, we don't know the URL it is going to be served over [04:13:22] we could make that configurable from the wikitech interface, tho [04:13:53] ? $(hostname).instance-proxy.wmflabs.org ? [04:14:11] bd808: that's just for testing, really [04:14:25] ah. [04:14:31] bd808: ideally we want something.wmflabs.org [04:15:01] bd808: I don't like the fact that I've to explicitly mention this for mediawiki :( shouldn't we able to do redirects relatively? [04:17:32] mediawiki/LocalSettings.php seems to be the culprit [04:18:08] bd808: hmm? is it setting 127.0.0.1? [04:18:10] * YuviPanda cehcks [04:18:16] yup [04:18:22] oh dear [04:19:06] bd808: so this can be fixed by just getting rid of that line? :D [04:19:07] "When $wgServer is not set the default value is calculated automatically." o_O [04:19:17] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgServer [04:20:34] Yeah, when I comment that line out it works as expected [04:20:50] looks for $varNames = array( 'HTTP_HOST', 'SERVER_NAME', 'HOSTNAME', 'SERVER_ADDR' ); [04:20:54] in that order [04:20:57] so HTTP_HOST should work [04:21:10] bd808: want to do the patch to vagrant or should I? [04:21:13] ori is still awake :P [04:22:03] You write it and I'll +2 [04:22:39] ok [04:24:14] bd808: hmm, trying to figure otu where that LocalSettings comes from [04:24:44] I think it's in /vagrant and copied by puppet [04:25:38] errr… or? [04:25:45] bd808: the one in /vagrant seems different [04:26:36] mediawiki/includes/installer/LocalSettingsGenerator.php ? [04:28:06] puppet/modules/mediawiki/manifests/init.pp causes it [04:28:11] bd808: hah! line104, modules/mediawiki/manifests/init.pp [04:28:24] yup [04:28:43] let me do a destroy and up to test [06:09:29] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Chris McMahon, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6major) [Bug 54671] VisualEditor opt-in preference disappears - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54671 [07:34:04] how do I delete a job from the queue? [07:35:13] Beetstra: qdel [07:35:21] ah .. [07:35:22] thanks! [07:35:49] np [07:36:52] grr [07:37:04] why do I now suddenly miss one of the perl modules [07:58:15] Eh .. help! [07:58:35] why does tools-exec-08 have different perl-modules installed than e.g. tools-exec-01 ?? [07:58:51] (COIBot does not run on 08, it does on 01 .. but the job tries to submit on 08) [09:23:45] Beetstra: best bet is to file a bug, mark prioirty about high and then yell about it ;p [09:24:47] addshore: Noisy :P [09:25:18] addshore: can you connect to any replicated databases on tool labs? [09:25:22] e.g. wikidatawiki_p ? [09:25:41] sql wikidatawiki_p [09:26:51] or mysql --defaults-file="${HOME}"/replica.my.cnf -h enwiki.labsdb enwiki_p [09:27:38] my php scripts connect fine from grid [09:27:51] *checks* [09:27:57] thanks [09:28:31] they did dns changes yesterday, but then i didn't see anyone in irc mention a problem with connecting to the databases [09:28:51] well, i can connect to enwiki fine [09:29:01] interesting.... [09:29:07] and wikidata ;p [09:29:27] * aude investigates [09:30:15] ERROR 2003 (HY000): Can't connect to MySQL server on 'enwiki.labsdb' (110) [09:31:28] hmm [09:31:36] what instance are you currently on?~ [09:31:41] tools-dev [09:31:47] let me try tools login [09:32:10] mhhhm, lookks like -dev is a bit broken [09:32:15] doesnt appear to connect [09:32:16] oh, tools login works [09:32:25] yes. works speedy :) [09:32:37] i can use that for now, but shall poke coren later [09:33:23] alright, thanks for helping figure this out :) [09:34:00] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Addshore, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6major) [Bug 54683] Cant connect to replicated mysql dbs from tools-dev - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54683 [09:34:02] aude: ^^ ;p [09:34:07] thanks! [11:18:24] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Dirk Beetstra, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6blocker) [Bug 54690] Tools-exec instances are not running the same software installs - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54690 [11:19:04] darn, forgot the priority [11:19:24] OK, set [12:52:43] hi Silke_WMDE - am prepping for our chat in 70 min :-) [13:11:37] anomie: hi, how's it going? [13:12:08] hi sumanah! Things are good here, how are you? When do you start Hacker School? [13:12:25] Monday! [13:13:39] I'm not bad! I am prepping for a chat to happen here in labs-l in 45 minutes where Silke, Coren, Deskana and I will talk about Tool Labs TODOs for the autumn [13:13:54] anomie: how's your son? Biking up a storm? [13:14:31] He's good, we haven't done too much biking lately though. [13:18:26] sumanah, Hi! Me too! [13:18:29] :D [13:20:13] btw Silke_WMDE I have blue hair now http://www.harihareswara.net/pix/blue-hair-avatar.jpg [13:52:06] aaargh, just re-sent something to labs-l that I meant to send to toolserver-l. Oh well. [13:52:42] * sumanah sends to toolserver-l [13:57:12] hey Coren, *wave* [13:57:24] sumanah: Ooh, the guide has a new section on code sharing. And to think I just tried to ask that on labs-l [13:57:38] (but my email didn't get through?) [13:57:43] Heya sumanah [13:58:02] (any list admins around? I suppose I don't want it to get through now) [13:58:19] jarry1250: I presume Coren? not sure [13:59:05] Of labs-l? The list is no longer moderated but simply blocks email from unsubscribed addresses (too much spam) so either it's already too late or it couldn't get through at all. :-) [14:00:33] ok, hey Silke_WMDE & DGarry & Coren - happy Friday and thank you for joining me to talk about TODOs & prioritization for Tool Labs [14:00:42] Greetings! [14:00:58] so, Silke_WMDE, this is Dan. He's the new product manager for Platform Eng at WMF [14:01:01] Perhaps myself and Silke should introduce ourselves. [14:01:03] Aha, you beat me to it. :) [14:01:15] Silke_WMDE: in about 3 weeks, he'll start helping out with Tool Labs-related stuff [14:01:27] communication, nudging a bit on priorities, etc. [14:01:33] *Tentatively*! [14:01:36] :) [14:01:39] * sumanah hopes [14:01:44] he & Coren met in SF, right? [14:01:56] Coren and I have met before too. [14:02:00] ah yeah! [14:02:04] And have lots of on-wiki interaction. [14:02:12] ol' skool enwiki buddies! [14:02:18] Heh. [14:02:22] Silke I've never met (to my knowledge) and have never interacted with, although I know her name. [14:02:49] DGarry: I'm sure there's a photo/intro on wikimedia.de somewhere but not sure where [14:02:50] hi all! [14:03:28] btw DGarry you might enjoy reading this intro to how OpenStack works http://vmartinezdelacruz.com/in-a-nutshell-how-openstack-works/ as part of understanding the Tool Labs infrastructure. [14:03:45] I hang around the same places (smoker's areas) as Silke whenever we are geographically colocated. :-) [14:03:52] hehe [14:03:54] So Coren it's been probably about 3 months since one of your general labs-l status reports - would you mind talking about what you're working on right now? [14:03:58] Coren: Cool, thanks. Does it get so much spam it couldn't tell me it blocked my email? (e.g. because I forgot to change "From:" [14:04:36] (I figure that's a good way to get started with a rough general understanding of what's left for Tool Labs, help prioritize it, and update the roadmap.) [14:04:42] +1 [14:04:50] jarry1250: No, you should get a bounce, but sometimes mailman is slow and/or sucks. :-) [14:05:16] Coren: gdgd! [14:06:03] sumanah, do we have a pad somewhere? [14:06:10] Well, Tool Labs is "finished" insofar as all the necessary functionality is there. What is left is maintenance-mode stuff like adding packages for endusers, scaling things up as usage grows, etc. That said, there is one big technical problem which is on my plate atm: the labs-wide storage. [14:06:30] We have had serious and recurring issues with the hardware I am currently trying to isolate and squish. [14:06:34] Silke_WMDE: here we go - https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/Tool%20Labs [14:06:41] yay [14:07:13] Yeah, it seems like storage is the big big sadface right now [14:07:31] Thankfully, the actualy symptoms of the underlying issue is mostly an annoyance (though at times a big one) rather than a blocker for tools. [14:07:55] and because it's deep and hard and hardware and blech, it's hard to get at, and I'm not gonna ask for an estimate of "when will this be fixed?" because I am smarter than that [14:08:18] sumanah: Actually, I can give you some estimates for important milestones. [14:08:21] oh! [14:08:45] Silke_WMDE: get ready to update https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Tool_Labs/Roadmap_en and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Labs/Tool_Labs/TODO :-) (well, let's update the Etherpad, then use that to edit the wiki pages) [14:08:56] sumanah: I expect that the storage will be moved to new hardware and old drivers mid next week [14:09:04] sumanah, ok [14:09:10] sumanah: At which point two things can happen: [14:10:08] sumanah: It starts working perfectly, in which case it becomes behind-the-scene diagnostics for ops to isolate the problem with the old setup... [14:10:16] sumanah: (but no longer has labs impact) [14:10:48] sumanah: Or it still fails in which case we have new hardware to buy (namely, the actual storage shelves). Timeline gets unpredictable at that point. [14:11:09] Okay, noob question (not requiring an urgent response), how does /shared/ work in practice? Because it's suggested that it could be used for code sharing, but ls /shared/ lists like five things. Does this mean virtually no-one's using it for code sharing, or am I missing something? [14:11:10] I just sort of assume we will have to buy new hardware. [14:11:22] (My assumption may be naive.) [14:12:00] jarry1250: mostly 'nobody is using it' :) [14:12:08] sumanah: We may end up having to, but our current bet is a regression in the driver for that particular controller and/or a specific failed controller. Next week's switch will tell us if it's one of them. [14:12:12] jarry1250: I'd personally consider git submodules a better solution, and that is what my tools use. [14:12:31] yuvipanda: In which case, do you automate git pull? [14:12:38] Got it - thanks Coren. I guess it would make sense for you to mention that to labs-l, maybe in a giant general Tool Labs Status Update [14:12:41] no. just when I need to. [14:13:04] jarry1250: I do *data* sharing via Redis. [14:13:08] Silke_WMDE: when you look at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Tool_Labs/Roadmap_en#Status_of_Tool_Labs_.28as_of_May_22nd.2C_2013.29 do you have any open questions? (is it time to update the date on that?) [14:13:15] YuviPanda|course: I'm just concerned I could end up with 20 tools, all of which share a basic PHP library. [14:13:22] (once I migrate) [14:13:27] sumanah: Yes, that was planned once I'm certain about when and how I'll do the switch (probably today, I'm still waiting for the raid array to build) [14:13:32] jarry1250: indeed, in that case put the basic PHP library in a git repo, and use submodules [14:14:15] sumanah, What's the priority of OSM at WMF's? [14:14:17] YuviPanda|course: But if I make some minor change, I then need to run 20 git pulls? [14:14:30] We haven't got a roguh roadmap from brandon yet [14:14:35] rough [14:14:44] indeed. but that's how libraries work - you are to make an explicit 'deploy' step so you don't accidentally break stuff. [14:15:22] of course, you can put things in /shared/ - but remember you'll need to secure that appropriately if you don't want random people to modify your code in there. [14:15:27] Silke_WMDE: so, Ken Snider (ksnider at wikimedia dot org) is a good person to nag if you are not getting a reply from Brandon :/ I know it's one of the two main things he is working on [14:15:42] YuviPanda: It's not that having a deploy step that bothers, me, it's having 20 of them [14:15:56] Brandon did reply, but said he was so busy with other stuff [14:15:57] jarry1250: then you script it. have a bash script that does the 20 pulls for you [14:16:09] Silke_WMDE: I feel as though I heard that the initial tileserver deployment is very close [14:16:49] YuviPanda: Okay, that makes more sense. [14:16:54] :D [14:17:06] That would be such good news to keep our OSM volunteers motivated [14:17:15] jarry1250: feel free to update the docs if whatever I saidm akes sense [14:17:16] (and to eleviate the toolserver) [14:17:30] so Coren - when I look at the bugs in https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?component=tools&list_id=236744&product=Wikimedia%20Labs&query_format=advanced&resolution=---&query_based_on=&columnlist=changeddate%2Cshort_desc%2Ccomponent%2Cproduct%2Cpriority%2Cbug_severity - if I order those by severity or priority, is that your work list? [14:17:30] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?columnlist=changeddate%2Cshort_desc%2Ccomponent%2Cproduct%2Cpriority%2Cbug_severity&component=tools&list_id=236744&product=Wikimedia%20Labs&query_format=advanced&resolution=---&order=priority%20DESC%2Cchangeddate%2Ccomponent%2Cbug_status%2Cbug_severity%2Cbug_id&query_based_on= [14:17:33] YuviPanda: I'm just bemused why no-one seems to have got frustrated with this facet of the migration before [14:17:46] jarry1250: mostly beccause nobody's tried, I suppose :P [14:17:47] Silke_WMDE: My new from last week from Brandon is that he's found the right approach and is now at implementation stage. [14:18:02] YuviPanda: Because code sharing among tools on the TS (if you owned them all) was so trivial [14:18:06] Coren, oh, that sounds good [14:18:20] sumanah: Pretty much yes; except for out of band stuff on the labs infrastructure itself and storage. [14:18:28] jarry1250: because they all ran under the same account? [14:18:37] sumanah: I've been pretty good at directing people to bugzilla. [14:18:47] Coren: ok. So I'm gonna mention a few questions/problems and it would be great if you could tell me whether they are BZ-able. :-) [14:19:05] YuviPanda: Indeed, you know, /~jarry/toola /~jarry/toolb/ etc [14:19:06] :) "BZ-able" [14:19:09] yeah [14:19:21] but this, IMO, is cleaner and more like how normal production things run [14:19:22] YuviPanda: So then it was trivial including e.g. header and footer code to make the tool look pretty [14:19:38] hey jarry1250 & YuviPanda, I'm sorry, I know I am being unreasonable, but could you delay your conversation for 15 min so I can finish here with Silke_WMDE & Coren, or move to #wikimedia-dev or the like? [14:19:38] it is different than how they 'used' to be [14:19:39] It depends what the tool did, really [14:19:50] (This is my last day before my sabbatical, trying to get this all squared away) [14:20:03] sumanah: Strictly speaking, we're more off-topic than they are. :-) [14:20:04] or else the four of us switch to a different channel [14:20:11] Coren: petan's Idea of control panel for bots: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/labs-l/2012-December/000653.html [14:20:14] sumanah: happy to move to #wikimedia-dev if Yuvi is? [14:20:20] jarry1250: sure :) [14:20:23] sorry guys [14:20:26] IRC sucks [14:20:33] I think that is the lesson :P [14:20:41] no no, I'm just being an irritable person [14:21:00] Last day before sabbatical = stress. I think everyone gets that. :) [14:21:08] Don't worry about it too much. [14:21:16] Or, at all, even. [14:21:42] (+1 to DGarry) [14:21:43] looks like it never really happened, would be a good idea if he wanted to do it :) [14:21:46] sumanah: Petan's idea is nice, though it's not clear to me how relevant it is to the current setup. I see it more as a /tool/ that devs could make collaboratively than a "tool labs feature" proper. [14:21:52] ah okay [14:22:25] ok, next - the account creation improvement stuff [14:22:31] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Labs/Authentication_improvement_project [14:22:37] I see there are some bugs mentioned here [14:22:44] page last updated early July [14:22:59] * Coren reads. [14:23:10] as a Labs user said many months ago: [14:23:17] "the registration process is too complex: I created an account on wmflabs.org. Then I requested shell access. I uploaded my SSH key to gerrit. Now I have to upload my SSH key to wmflabs.org. Before I can do this, I have to contact a Nova administrator. Then I have to contact the webtools project owners. (And I do not know yet what I will have to do after that.)" [14:23:30] "(In particular, why not have a single account-creation process, rather than separate accounts for Git, shell, and bastion access?)" [14:24:29] ... I'm not getting what that user said; it doesn't match reality. [14:24:45] The registration process has a number of possible improvements, but the actual process is: [14:25:08] (a) create account on wikitech. This is, basically, SUL. Shell access request is automatic; doesn't have to be done separately. [14:25:20] (b) upload SSH key (of course) [14:25:36] (c) request access to any project you want to have access to. [14:25:47] Coren: I think it matched reality at the time the user wrote that. Or was at least a recognizable variant. [14:25:56] But now we are way better. [14:26:10] It would have had to be so long ago that I never saw the process in that stage, certainly. :-) [14:26:11] Is the UI of registration now something that ordinary folks find burdensome? [14:26:16] (Yeah, I think so.) [14:26:40] Also, I think the "upload SSH key" process UI could probably use improvement, although I don't know for sure. [14:26:52] What is "Keystone"? [14:27:06] DGarry: an authentication framework from OpenStack that we mostly don't use. [14:27:10] It's hard to improve on "go to preferences, paste key, hit the submit button" [14:27:25] Coren: and it's now "preferences *on wikitech.wikimedia.org" right? [14:27:41] DGarry: btw if you learn stuff, feel free to add it to https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Terminology [14:27:48] Yes. Everything goes through wikitech. [14:28:06] Coren: It's kind of annoying that Gerrit makes you also add the ssh key separately in gerrit.wikimedia.org [14:28:10] but that's outside scope here [14:28:33] ok, Coren, do you think this complaint is also obsolete? [14:28:34] "You get strange messages and can't find any information [14:28:34] on them, e.g. this one: "Your user rights were changed by Andrew [14:28:34] Bogott. You are now a member of this group: shell. Learn more". By [14:28:34] clicking onto it, you get a list of permissions: "loginviashell". [14:28:35] There is a red link pointing to "Wikitech:Shell". The user is [14:28:36] confused." [14:28:42] sumanah: That's because gerrit kinda sucks; but IIRC there is a bug open to integrate the two. [14:29:24] Coren, I sometimes read stuff about worse db performance in TL than on the toolserver. It's hard for me to tell if they are right complaining. How do you see this? [14:29:51] sumanah: That's still accurate but - honestly - I would expect that anyone who intents to login via shell would understand what the 'loginviashell' permission might be for. :-) [14:30:04] I don't think so [14:30:32] I think this is one of those "you think this is obvious" things [14:30:40] Silke_WMDE: All the cases I've seen to date are people who didn't understand the need for using indexes. :-) [14:31:10] sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt - you were still on the other question [14:31:23] part of what makes a polished system is fewer redlinks :-) [14:31:23] plus write access to replicas is slower than tools-db (we should document that somewhere if we haven't) [14:31:39] YuviPanda: ooh, maybe file a quick bug to add that doc? [14:31:58] sumanah, Coren: I see the middle ground on this. I think Coren is mostly right, but that improving by removing redlinks and replacing with good documentation is important. However, where does that fit on a list of priorities? Quite low, I'd imagine. [14:32:09] sumanah: Feel free to suggest clearer text for newbies; It's a Wiki™ :-) But I'd be hard pressed to find something clearer than "You've been given shell access." :-) [14:32:10] fair. [14:32:26] I think making Wikitech:Shell *not* a redlink would be good [14:32:27] I'll file a bug [14:32:33] Yes, that sounds sane. [14:32:56] Or, to look at the dual problem, is there someone that's not pressed for time doing tech ops stuff, that is also qualified to fill out these redlinks? [14:32:56] ok, Silke, go ahead [14:32:58] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Sumana Harihareswara, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6normal) [Bug 54697] add useful content to Wikitech:Shell - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54697 [14:33:03] What DGarry says - for newbies comming over from toolserver, this is very importatn [14:33:14] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Yuvi Panda, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6normal) [Bug 54698] Document the read/write performance characterists of tools-db vs dbs in the replica databases - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54698 [14:33:18] sumanah: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54698 [14:34:16] sumanah: Also, it might be a good idea to mention basic expectations of users; things like "you should be at least somewhat familiar to working on a Unix-like commandline or have someone who is to help" [14:34:24] Back to db performance - are these indexes mentioned somewhere in the documentation? I don't what they are (and maybe the people who complain don't either) [14:35:30] I don't see a good explanation in https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Tools/Help [14:35:58] @&#^ kvirc not understanding that ^W is WERASE. [14:36:02] nooooo [14:36:02] Silke_WMDE: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Nova_Resource:Tools/Help#Tables_for_revision_or_logging_queries_involving_user_names_and_IDs [14:37:02] Hm. [14:37:20] There is another performance factor that doesn't seem to be documented yet though: the 26ms roundtrip. [14:37:22] If my problem is that labs seems slow, I wouldn't read that part. [14:38:03] Silke_WMDE: Well, if labs seems slow while you are doing a query on the DB replicas, where would you look for information outside the DB replicas section of help? [14:38:19] Wherever you would look at is probably a good place to put a link. :-) [14:38:26] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Sumana Harihareswara, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6normal) [Bug 54700] Add "Labs seems slow, what do I do?" to Help doc - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54700 [14:38:33] I mean, the information should be connected to performance issues [14:38:36] Added a TODO bug :-) [14:38:54] Also the FAQ I suppose. [14:39:03] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Chris McMahon, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6major) [Bug 54671] VisualEditor opt-in preference disappears - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54671 [14:39:31] Silke_WMDE: hey, re https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Access#Accessing_instances_with_a_graphical_file_manager - is that good enough now? re Using a GUI text editor? I remember you talked to one person who was initially uncertain [14:39:32] Although I only remember being asked this ~5-6 times; so how F is that Q is an open question. :-) [14:40:15] sumanah, I will ask, I think it might have been Tim. [14:40:16] It sounds like "Frequently Aired Qomplaints" is another name here.... ;-) [14:40:19] Silke_WMDE: got it. [14:40:21] but looks good [14:40:58] Coren: ok, re expectations [14:41:03] am filing a bug to add to docs [14:41:03] mention basic expectations of users; things like "you should be at least somewhat familiar to working on a Unix-like commandline or have someone who is to help" [14:42:15] Although that may not be the only expectation we imply. Only an outsider that is a true newbie can tell us. [14:42:31] yeah [14:42:36] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Sumana Harihareswara, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6normal) [Bug 54701] add basic expectations management to docs - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54701 [14:43:22] so Coren in https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54701 I also mention that the Tool Labs docs should specify what expectations are for "semi-production" -- and point to the road to "this should be production" [14:43:53] I would advise against using that terminology; it has already demonstrated to be hoplessly confusing to endusers. [14:44:03] yes [14:44:20] and don't speak of 9s :) That's confusing [14:45:11] (+1) [14:45:20] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Sumana Harihareswara, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6normal) [Bug 54702] add Central Logging Service documentation - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54702 [14:45:32] Coren: ok. in that case, what's the terminology to use? [14:45:55] Dan can probably advise on that while I am away ;-) [14:45:59] (I know, I know, "tentatively") [14:46:04] We need someone to vulgarize the disctinction and explain this in terms that are clear to non-opsen. I still think we need an actual tech writer on staff for this stuff. :-) [14:46:43] I used to be a tech writer. I've done a bunch of tech writing for us. [14:46:48] I'm too deep in to make it clear; to me, expectations about the number of nines is exactly the best way to explain this. :-) [14:47:10] Number of nines? Huh? [14:47:11] sumanah: But you (a) have tons of other things to do and (b) are going away. :-) [14:47:12] Maybe you could just talk about "Tool Labs is not the real Wikipedia" [14:47:13] But I can't do tech writing fulltime. [14:47:14] Yeah. [14:47:33] Anyway, it's clear that this is something that needs clarification - I've put in the bug. [14:47:45] Next, Coren - Metainformation table now on replica servers. -- can we put a version of this on the web? [14:48:23] strikes me that would be a helpful thing to do, nice little bit of reference material for bot/tool writers. Is this a project a random person could do? [14:48:25] Silke_WMDE: That's going to be even more confusing -- it's a real part of the infrastructure, that /does/ get support, but for which reliability isn't at the same level as production. [14:48:28] (I mean, not you) [14:48:55] sumanah: It should be fairly trivial, I'd expect. A few dozen lines of PHP and half again as much of CSS to make it look the pretties. [14:49:41] But yeah, anyone can do this. [14:50:11] * sumanah adds bug [14:50:15] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Sumana Harihareswara, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6normal) [Bug 54703] web version of metainformation table - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54703 [14:50:21] Easy way to create Git repos in Gerrit for individual tools [14:50:21] * https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=36937 Bug 36937 - Allow for group admins to create project repositories inside a parent project [14:50:39] It's in Chad's territory [14:51:10] * sumanah adds comment to bug [14:51:31] It's also never going to be open to endusers (deleting repos is nigh impossible); so in practice the way to get a repo is "ask someone who can create it". [14:51:59] expanding 'list of people who can create repos' is maybe a good idea :D [14:52:01] yeah. [14:52:05] next: [14:52:05] How do we help guide people to do The Right Thing re [14:52:05] * cronjobs [14:52:05] * doing Real Things on bastion ? [14:52:43] Seems like people need perhaps some form of automated nudging or friendly shiny make-it-easy-to-do-the-right-thing UI here. [14:52:58] So I'll file 2 bugs in BZ unless you think it's a bad idea [14:54:00] Silke_WMDE: btw - re Puppet guidance - "one thing I would love to see is a short practical guide on puppet, aimed at tool maintainers on labs...It would be nice to have some example puppet files, and a guide on the process of comitting [14:54:01] them." https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Self-hosted_puppetmaster is not quite right. http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/labs-l/2013-March/001047.html has some more info ... [14:54:12] "process of committing them." https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Self-hosted_puppetmaster is not quite right. http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/labs-l/2013-March/001047.html has some more info ... [14:54:35] ah [14:55:03] I think I edited that self-hosted thing when I was with Wikidata... [14:55:46] sumanah: A point though is that puppet doesn't apply to tool labs at all. This is the province of "have your own project" for which the expectations are higher. [14:55:50] I mean the tools people - they don't really have to do with puppet [14:55:56] ah okay [14:56:18] if you think we don't need to add a short guide to Puppet to the Tool Labs TODO, I'm happy to move on [14:56:52] Coren: re guiding people to do the right thing on bastion and wrt cronjobs -- any objection? [14:57:45] No, but that's mostly a shopping list of "don't"s. I don't think you can enumerate what to do right because there are as many correct ways to do things as there are tools. [14:58:11] so, this took longer than I had scheduled, sorry [14:58:17] and I have to head off now to another handoff meeting [14:58:46] handing so many things off. :-) [14:58:48] I've got another 30 minutes [14:58:54] Silke_WMDE, Coren, if you would take a moment later today to update https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Labs/Tool_Labs/TODO and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Tool_Labs/Roadmap_en with any "done" stuff, that would be great [14:59:03] sure [14:59:19] sumanah, enjoy your sabbatical! [14:59:29] and come back! ;) [14:59:47] thank you Silke_WMDE! I will probably make some noises later today about what needs doing first IMO :) [14:59:56] Thanks sumanah. Enjoy! [15:00:00] also Silke_WMDE check out https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Blog/Drafts/You%27re_invited:_Use_your_ideas_to_improve_Wikimedia_with_Tool_Labs#Notes -- is Sept 30 really the deadline for telling WMDE people need help on the migration? [15:00:25] no it's not, because so far, not many people have asked [15:00:37] I'll edit it [15:00:38] sumanah: kk, will do [15:00:41] Silke_WMDE: ah okay. go ahead and edit - thanks [15:00:42] thank you Coren [15:00:49] and thanks DGarry [15:00:52] and see y'all later! [15:00:58] (thx jarry1250 & YuviPanda, I flee now) [15:01:39] lets look at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Labs/Tool_Labs/TODO [15:02:16] whats the status about local email? [15:03:58] Coren, DGarry still there? [15:04:06] Still am. [15:04:10] I /live/ here. :-) [15:04:20] whats the status about local email? [15:04:38] Silke_WMDE: We got the all clear from legal, we're at the implementation stage. [15:04:56] Silke_WMDE: This is near the top of my list once I get the file server issue sorted out. [15:05:04] ok. is there an ETA? [15:05:10] * Coren ponders. [15:05:29] Outgoing mail has been working for a while now; I suppose it's reasonable to expect incoming within 2-3 weeks. [15:06:07] * Silke_WMDE notes this [15:06:38] Coren, Next "open" item is RENDER, but thats done \o/ [15:07:04] Coren, "Cross-tool authentication" [15:07:35] what's up there? [15:07:38] That's on the general labs todo list, but it will come at some unspecified time in the future. I hope 4Q this year. [15:07:54] ok, it's lower prio [15:07:58] (There are a lot of OpenID dependencies, and some production things we need to consider first) [15:08:50] Coren, DGarry I am now looking at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Tool_Labs/Roadmap_en [15:09:49] Coren, could you go through the schedule please and mark done things as done? [15:10:08] Silke_WMDE: Okay. [15:10:36] thanks [15:11:13] Then I also wanted to propose a common list of Tool Labs and Toolserver [15:11:25] a list of tools that need more volunteers [15:11:57] So that people who are interested in joining can easily find where to start [15:12:13] where would you put that list? [15:13:39] Coren, DGarry ^^ [15:14:02] Change on 12mediawiki a page Wikimedia Labs/Tool Labs/Roadmap en was modified, changed by MPelletier (WMF) link https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?diff=792091 edit summary: /* Schedule */ wmf bits done [15:15:54] Change on 12mediawiki a page Wikimedia Labs/Tool Labs/TODO was modified, changed by Silke WMDE link https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?diff=792092 edit summary: updated to do list [15:17:22] DGarry: Sorry, was doing something. Back now. [15:17:50] goin nuts, talkin to yourself [15:17:52] DGarry: talking to yourself already? [15:17:53] tch tch [15:17:57] Erm, oh dear. [15:18:00] Silke_WMDE: Sorry, that was for you. :P [15:18:02] YuviPanda: jinx [15:18:09] :9 [15:18:14] Silke_WMDE: I'm still getting to grips with Tool Labs so I'm not sure I can really advise on any of thise. [15:18:32] ok. Coren? [15:19:23] Silke_WMDE: Not sure "{{notdone}}" is right for auth, but it's still true -- I'd have said "future improvement" or somesuch. [15:19:32] Change on 12mediawiki a page Wikimedia Labs/Tool Labs/Roadmap en was modified, changed by Silke WMDE link https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?diff=792093 edit summary: updated eta for mail [15:19:55] Coren, go ahead, it's a wiki! ;) [15:20:25] I read that auth thing and it does tie in to me, somewhat. Making login.wikimedia.org an OpenID provider is on the cards. In fact, it'll probably be what I do once I finish OAuth. Maybe sooner. [15:20:30] Oh, and OAuth. :) [15:20:51] haha! [15:21:09] Change on 12mediawiki a page Wikimedia Labs/Tool Labs/TODO was modified, changed by MPelletier (WMF) link https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?diff=792095 edit summary: Not done /yet/ is all. :-) [15:21:48] DGarry: Yes, it does indeed. [15:23:17] bd808: appropriate patches merged, and moved to https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Labs-vagrant [15:23:17] Coren, DGarry What do you think about my idea of a list "I'm a new volunteer. Which tool could use my help?" I got the first mail I can't maintain my stuff any longer. These tools should be listed somewhere, commonly for toolserver and tool labs, don't you think? [15:24:02] Coren, DGarry What would be a good place for such a list? [15:24:04] Silke_WMDE: I think it's a great idea. In my opinion, the biggest barrier to participation with Wikimedia projects in general is that first step of "Right, I'm set up. Now what?" [15:24:16] YuviPanda: excellent. I'll get that patch for apache enmod in soon. Grinding through email and irc buffers at the moment. [15:24:22] heh :D [15:24:57] Silke_WMDE: I can think of a few places on enwiki that we could socialise this. I'm not entirely sure how effective it would be there, though. [15:24:59] Silke_WMDE: I agree, and that "new volunteer" ties in nicely with https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_become_a_MediaWiki_hacker [15:25:28] Silke_WMDE: We need to think about who our target is for this? New volunteers? Or, perhaps, the person that made his own random tool on Tool Labs then never did anything else? [15:25:29] Coren: can i merge labs-vagrant changes on sockpuppet? [15:25:43] merge conflict when doing other stuff [15:26:52] DGarry That link is a nice place. Target... a) maintainers who want to leave (Where to put that information) [15:27:47] DGarry, b) People who want to work tools. Some might find it easier to get involved into an exsting tool with the perspective to take it over than to start from scratch [15:29:22] Silke_WMDE: Whichever place you end up with, we'd want to mention on the impending blog post. [15:29:37] Coren, DGarry I am running out of time, I'll have to catch a train. I still have this one [15:29:44] when is that blog post due? [15:30:43] Silke_WMDE: That's DGarry's call. [15:30:58] It is? [15:31:01] i still have this one topic, that Lydia and I posted about on labs-l. The big privacy question which *is* a *big* issue in the community here. (Obviously not on labs-l.) [15:31:03] What blog post? [15:31:44] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Blog/Drafts/You%27re_invited:_Use_your_ideas_to_improve_Wikimedia_with_Tool_Labs#Notes [15:31:46] Sumana might have overstated my involvement here. Howie has told me to stick to OAuth for the time being. I'm here to try to get a feel for it before I consider more involvement. [15:32:03] Howie's very conscious of me getting overwhelmed considering I'm entirely new to product management. [15:32:59] YuviPanda: can you integrate labsvagrant with your port forwarder somehow? ideally i'd be able to match up the right DNS names and ports when i configured the role. [15:33:13] Coren, we could write that blog post together [15:33:16] cscott: yup, me and bd808 were talking about that. [15:33:40] cscott: not sure how to best do it, considering auth is needed [15:33:52] Silke_WMDE: I know legal is looking at the question, but IMO is likely to punt. It is unlikely that the WMF will add further privacy requirements beyond the current redaction of personal information. [15:34:04] YuviPanda: maybe oauth? [15:34:10] yeah, maybe i just need to pass config variables into the puppet role, that's already supported presumably. [15:34:19] I don't even think about more "legal rules" [15:34:47] cscott: it is, but the call then needs to be done from your machine, which means auth has to be there at *that* point [15:35:04] Coren, but the tool labs community could come to their own extra agreements. Do you estimate anyone there is interested in such a discussion? [15:35:10] YuviPanda: although our initial oauth won't support a non-browser workflow as I recall [15:35:13] cscott: the 'pass config variables to puppet role' is just a massive hack involving putting string assignments into LDAP. not good enough for use here. [15:35:31] Coren, These things were done on TS and people ask about it. [15:35:37] bd808: yeah, but I think 1. fixing the wgServer thing 2. adding the dynamic proxy UI to wikitech should alleviate the problem majorly [15:35:51] YuviPanda: does that massive hack actually work for puppet-inside-of-labsvagrant? [15:35:53] Silke_WMDE: Honestly, I don't think you'll reach consensus on the matter and even if you did there would be no way to enforce it. [15:35:57] cscott: nope :P [15:36:07] YuviPanda: oh, bo. [15:36:08] boo [15:36:18] cscott: can be made to work, of course [15:36:19] Coren, I see. :( [15:36:32] YuviPanda: that might be a good first step [15:37:10] Coren, DGarry I have to run! See you soon and tell me if you want me to do anything about the blog post. [15:37:11] Silke_WMDE: Think about it; if someone writes a tool that collects public information and aggregates it in a way that annoys European sensibilities, what /can/ be done about it? [15:37:12] cscott: would still need authentication, for dynamicproxy [15:37:44] Coren, a community could say "still we dont want a tool on our platform" [15:38:03] even if its legal [15:38:21] Silke_WMDE: True, but there is nothing they could do to prevent it. [15:38:32] Silke_WMDE: Beyond social pressure [15:38:34] it also, IMO, gives the illusion of privacy without actually providing any. [15:38:36] exactly [15:38:59] YuviPanda: That too; forbidding something anyone can do it 30s on an AWS is silly. [15:39:19] Coren, DGarry and all! Cu soon! #train [15:39:22] +1 to it being silly. [15:39:25] Silke_WMDE: see ya1 [15:39:31] * Coren waves. [15:41:20] bd808: I'm going to make it so that the repo on /vagrant/ is always 'up to date', by forcing a git pull every 30s. Think that's a bad idea? [15:41:24] err [15:41:25] 30m [15:41:39] or rather, forcing a git pull on every (operations/puppet)run [15:42:14] YuviPanda: hmm…. will it jack things up if a local branch is being tests? [15:42:22] s/tests/tested/ [15:42:44] I could do something like 'check if there are no diffs and that you are in master, then do a pull' [15:42:57] yeah. I'd go for that [15:43:27] YuviPanda: I'd actually like to see something like that for the extensions within /vagrant/mediawiki as well [15:43:44] bd808: ah, right. [15:43:59] bd808: I guess *that* should be solved in mediawiki/vagrant.git [15:44:12] YuviPanda: agreed. [15:44:15] also fuck, my right wrist has started to hurt really badly. [15:44:23] bd808: perhaps a notice saying 'out of date! run vagrant 'update''? [15:44:33] we can add a 'vagrant update' that recursively looks for git repos and updates [15:44:33] them [15:45:20] YuviPanda: that could work. `git fetch —all` and then warn if out of date or something [15:45:57] yeah [15:46:04] let me file a bug [15:46:08] I use this script from ~/bin to keep things fresh: https://github.com/aanand/git-up [15:46:25] bd808: so if we have vagrant update, should be trivial to replicate that in labs-vagrant [15:46:51] * bd808 nods [15:49:29] WTF? The DNS entries for the oauth project labs instance have vanished. :( [15:49:31] * anomie readds [15:49:47] anomie: they did some DNS changes, these were announced on labs-l [15:49:58] anomie: there was a big DNS fixup yesterday, so might've been a casuality. you should poke Ryan_Lane or andrewbogott_afk [15:50:51] At least I can finally delete the unused DNS entries from long ago. [15:51:38] heh [15:53:55] [bz] (8UNCONFIRMED - created by: 2metatron, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6normal) [Bug 54710] No HTTPS/SSL for icinga and ganglia at wmflabs.org - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54710 [16:21:13] [bz] (8UNCONFIRMED - created by: 2metatron, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6normal) [Bug 54713] cannot access graphite.wikimedia.org - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54713 [16:40:38] Coren: re: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54703 why not just write it into a page on wikitech via a bot? [16:41:31] I guess that means needing to put wikitech creds on the filesystem [16:41:38] I can't wait for oauth [16:41:54] Ryan_Lane: That, and also the fact that it's generated at interval rather than on-demand; and it's not clear which is most useful. [16:42:52] ah [16:42:55] * Ryan_Lane nods [17:08:17] YuviPanda: huh, turns out that php-v8js *already* has time and memory limits. they are just not documented well. [18:21:10] Coren Ryan_Lane ping [18:21:14] did you see https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54683 ? [18:21:42] pong [18:21:52] oh, it works again :) [18:21:58] guess you did see it [18:22:04] No I didn't. [18:22:10] oh, well it works [18:22:12] "someone" must have noticed. [18:22:35] [bz] (8RESOLVED - created by: 2Addshore, priority: 4Highest - 6major) [Bug 54683] Cant connect to replicated mysql dbs from tools-dev - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54683 [18:23:04] :) [18:36:35] Ryan_Lane: thank you for Labs. :-) (most recent email to labs-l has a nice bit at the end) [18:37:03] "The not-so-great parts? Nothing really. I think I have reasonable expectations and Labs provides an excellent service. Things break every once in a while. Sometimes the fix is easy and other times it is more involved. Over time, I've noticed the stability increase and the documentation expand. Labs keeps getting better." [18:42:16] sumanah: yep, saw it :) [18:46:30] andrewbogott or Ryan_Lane: take a look at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54043 ? [18:46:41] "Install php5-sqlite module en Wikimedia Labs" - it's for Wiki Loves Monuments [18:47:51] [bz] (8UNCONFIRMED - created by: 2Superzerocool, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6enhancement) [Bug 54043] Install php5-sqlite module en Wikimedia Labs - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54043 [18:48:49] thank you andrewbogott [18:49:11] sumanah: added a patch. [18:50:40] YuviPanda, maybe I misunderstood the bug… is there more to it than just adding an additional package? [18:50:51] andrewbogott: for toollabs? not really [18:50:57] trivial change, really. [18:50:58] 'k [18:51:02] although I'm surprised we didn't already have it [18:53:52] andrewbogott: +2 when you feel like it :) [18:55:00] Are we sure that superzerocool is talking about tools? [18:55:24] andrewbogott: verily! [18:55:26] andrewbogott: local-superzerocool@tools-login:~/public_html$ php -m [18:55:31] 'k [18:55:37] andrewbogott: plus I remember him talking about it in #wikilovesmonuments a while ago [19:14:54] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Sumana Harihareswara, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6enhancement) [Bug 54719] Encouraging people to do the right thing re bastion - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54719 [19:17:46] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Sumana Harihareswara, priority: 4Unprioritized - 6enhancement) [Bug 54720] automatic encouragements to use OGE instead of cronjobs, when appropriate - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54720 [20:03:44] is gerrit down? [20:03:57] Amir1: no [20:04:12] Ryan_Lane: hi, okay [20:05:03] <^d> Comments like that scare me :) [20:08:15] :)) [20:10:32] [23:35:59.807] GET https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gerrit_ui/CE32FE3F654E6009856FA4BB48E81F37.cache.html [HTTP/1.1 200 OK 242516ms] [20:11:26] 242 seconds [20:12:18] connecting to other site doesn't take this much [20:12:35] *sites [20:17:32] Coren: is no one looking at the tools access queue? [22:14:12] [bz] (8NEW - created by: 2Chris McMahon, priority: 4High - 6enhancement) [Bug 53061] Install Flow extension on beta cluster - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53061 [23:01:42] yuvipanda: 8 minutes in. So far, painless.