[00:00:34] Heh. [00:00:37] Right [00:00:38] I do mean about 24 hours from now :) relative time leaves no confusion [00:00:51] T-24 HOURS [00:01:04] We'll get a big clock [00:54:52] fabriceflorin: Do you want me to attend the roundtable thing tomorrow? [00:57:08] marktraceur: You are welcome to join if you like, but it is not mandatory. I think you should attend at least one of the two sessions. Please let me know right away if you want to participate tomorrow, so we can reserve a feed for you. You can also lurk on YouTube, if you prefer. Your call entirely. Heading for the bus now, so best send me an email, in case the connection is poor. What's your personal Gmail address if you want to join [00:57:30] I'll lurk [00:57:45] And bother tgr on IRC if I get sufficiently irritated at something [01:08:49] marktraceur: OK, I'll include you in the list of lurkers, along with bd808. :) [01:09:07] * bd808 lurks with the best of them [02:26:04] bd808: I dunno, I'd rate you around mid-pack [02:27:17] Check my account creation date and number of comments on reddit or hn :) [02:27:40] Oh, yeah, those sites are like lurker bait [02:28:45] Every time I try to engage on reddit I remember why I don't generally bother [02:28:54] bd808++ [02:28:59] That shit is useless [02:29:25] /r/php is especially yucky [02:29:40] bd808: subscribe to r/lolphp [02:30:17] https://github.com/search?q=exec+sudo+%24_GET&type=Code was amusing. [02:30:24] * marktraceur berates legoktm for relative URIs to subreddits [02:30:37] oh, heh [02:30:51] bd808: /r/linux was bad enough [15:21:38] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Remove lightbox entries from history when closing [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/97919 [15:40:15] marktraceur: ^^ [15:40:56] i experimented with the history api a lot (although only on FF), and i think this is the closest we can get to keeping a sane history [15:42:24] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: "So I guess at least one of the issues *looks* like you'll fire a bunch of popstate events with history.back(). But if that's not true, the" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/97919 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [15:42:44] tgr: I saw, looks interesting [15:43:35] as i said, the implementation is crap [15:43:52] it will fire popstate, as you said [15:44:15] and probably break on some exotic conditions, like reloading a page after backnavigating [15:44:34] but those can be fixed if the general concept makes sense [15:45:46] 'kay [17:25:09] Do we have a youtube link? [17:28:24] Oh, right, the discussion starts at 10:00 [17:28:26] * marktraceur is bad [17:32:11] I'm also waiting for the link [17:34:10] Exciting times [17:34:25] pginer: Are you joining live via Hangout, or back in the cheap seats with me? [17:35:05] live Hangout [17:35:15] Coolio [17:53:26] Whoa, the related videos actually includes the past roundtable! [18:00:00] Stand-up! [18:00:00] Order: fabriceflorin -> bd808 -> marktraceur -> tgr [18:00:17] wmfmedia-standup: You didn't get the memo [18:00:57] STFU wmfmedia-standup [18:01:14] whoaaaa the youtube started playing in the background during the hangout, but a minute behind :D [18:01:31] Magical [18:01:49] brion: 45-90s lag is typical for a hangout stream [18:01:57] real-time is overrated [18:02:01] It looks like nobody in that room is on IRC [18:02:15] Those YouTube guys need a faster transcoder :) [18:02:57] Oh, tfinc is, but not in here [18:04:22] The youtube stream asks "what slides" [18:19:07] Nooope [18:20:56] Alternate title: WMF tries to debug their A/V setup [18:21:53] They had it and then … listened to the wrong voice [18:22:15] Yeah [18:22:24] If only someone in the room were on IRC [18:22:30] Hi jtrias. [18:28:10] In this episode, the WMF talks about using Twitter. [18:30:22] Wait wait wait ah crap I can't ask questions [18:37:44] Is that Vera committing copyvio in the background of the hangout? [18:42:55] brion: Mind reminding people that Flow will make the discussion bits easier? [18:43:17] we can hope at least :D [18:43:22] i.e. we can address it to a sane place [18:47:52] (03PS1) 10Vldandrew: Merge "Previous and next functionality!" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/97938 [18:48:38] ... [18:49:22] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: [C: 04-2] "We don't use merge commits - please rebase your changes if you want to submit patches against the latest master." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/97938 (owner: 10Vldandrew) [18:51:03] brion: Sorry to keep bugging you, but tell these people about PronunciationRecording, which was a GSoC project [18:51:08] I don't recall the exact name [18:51:15] But basically it's exactly what Vera's saying [18:52:00] Oh, that's actually what it's called, wow [18:53:31] heh [18:53:44] marktraceur: i added a section in the etherpad to list existing things of note [18:54:40] Thanks [18:55:59] brion: Tell Fabrice that the alpha instance has it on for logged-out users? [18:59:01] Ah, sorry Fuzheado, that's my fault [19:04:39] Hi there vandrew_ [19:06:29] aarcos: Mind chiming in and saying that I've put links to versions that have next/previous? [19:06:36] They're on the etherpad [19:07:57] let me see if I have the right time, nice reminder. [19:11:57] I wonder if "demonstrating copyright violation" falls under fair use [19:12:02] If not this video might get flagged [19:20:38] ls [19:22:57] Desktop/ Documents/ Downloads/ Music/ projects/ Public/ Templates/ Videos/ VirtualBox VMs/ [19:29:35] Anyone here who could answer a few questions regarding Multimediaviewer extension ? [19:29:48] That would be me, vandrew_ [19:29:53] What can I help with? [19:30:43] marktraceur: where are the urls constructed ? [19:31:16] vandrew_: The share URLs? [19:32:00] yes [19:33:18] here ext.multimediaViewer.js ? [19:35:50] Hm, maybe it would now be in resources/ext.multimediaViewer/ext.multimediaViewer.lightboxinterface.js [19:36:11] Look for openFileUsageDialog [19:36:17] ok [19:36:27] and thanks [19:40:56] Yup [19:47:05] marktraceur: so the problem is there [19:48:01] Yup [19:53:04] and here is the the image url .val( '

' ), [19:53:21] That's correct [19:54:26] and this url uses https yes ? [19:54:37] because is the image url [19:54:41] It should use relative protocols [19:54:45] But I'm not sure [19:56:54] oh, I think I know [19:57:16] I should remove https from link and leave only // [19:57:28] That's a good idea [19:57:47] You may need to replace http instead, though [19:58:22] So if you're familiar with regexes in javascript, you should try to build one that handles both of those protocols [20:00:03] we want it to use both http and https ? [20:00:31] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: [C: 032] "I think there's a rebase that needs to happen, but +2" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96682 (owner: 10Aarcos) [20:00:51] vandrew_: We want it to replace either one [20:01:10] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Load image only if data was returned, otherwise do nothing. [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96682 (owner: 10Aarcos) [20:01:16] Hm [20:01:29] vandrew_: I think I may have broken the use this file dialog with my refactor, actually [20:03:09] So I'll file that bug, and you could maybe shift to fixing that :) [20:03:42] marktraceur: sure [20:06:17] vandrew_: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57678 [20:07:18] i'll have to clone the git again yep ? [20:07:27] Uh [20:07:28] No [20:08:02] vandrew_: Are you doing local development on a branch? [20:08:09] yes [20:09:15] As long as it isn't master, commit your changes to it, checkout master again, then checkout a new branch called bug/57678 [20:09:21] Grammar question: "2 Ogg audios" vs "2 Ogg audio files" vs "2 Ogg sounds" ? (To include on Special:TimedMediaHandler) [20:09:45] Something like git commit -a && git checkout master && git fetch --all && git reset --hard origin/master && git checkout -b bug/57678 [20:10:05] bawolff: 2 Ogg audio files sounds most best [20:10:16] ok [20:10:16] bawolff: audio files sounds nicer, if there is enough place [20:10:42] There's enough room. The Video section currently uses just videos, which sounds ok for video, but not for audio [20:11:32] So I guess the question now is, should I change the video section of https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:TimedMediaHandler to match, or is it fine as is? [20:12:02] marktraceur: if you use mediawiki-vagrant, you probably have to use gerrit/master [20:12:09] also, ick, the transcodes section doesn't do number formatting [20:12:11] that gave me a lot of trouble at first [20:12:27] bawolff: "video" is a countable noun, "audio" isn't really [20:12:39] And "sound" is a subset of "audio", so I wouldn't use that [20:12:53] tgr: Rrrg, bloody vagrant [20:13:00] yeah, "videos" doesn't sound too bad [20:13:55] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/video is in Category:English countable nouns, audio is...als? [20:13:58] also? [20:14:01] Weird [20:14:27] I guess you could say "There are two audios, an English and a Japanese dub" [20:14:32] But I'd use "tracks" for that [20:15:32] meh, patch is now submitted [20:22:38] marktraceur: so I have to change lines lik var $this = $( this ), [20:22:47] like* [20:23:50] Yeah [20:24:04] "this" is no longer an element in that function, and I should have changed it in the same commit [20:24:19] var this.$useFileLi [20:24:30] No no [20:24:34] just useFile then ? [20:24:43] vandrew_: this.$useFile should be declared, you don't need to declare a var for it [20:26:59] you mean declaring like &useFile.declare ? [20:27:08] No no [20:27:28] vandrew_: If you do "var something = 1" that's declaring the variable [20:27:34] But the variable already exists, and is set [20:27:40] So we don't need to declare anything [20:27:55] aaaaa [20:28:14] You should just be able to delete the $this declaration and replace instances of it with this.$useFile [20:28:34] Except in the selectAllOnEvent function [20:33:24] every $this from ext.multimediaViewer.lightboxinterface.js is in selectAllOnEven, so I'll only have to change them in ext.multimediaViewer.js [20:33:51] ...wait what [20:33:52] oh wait [20:33:53] no [20:33:57] No, definitely not [20:34:09] Line 249 has $this [20:34:19] yes [20:34:20] 254-255 too [20:34:43] That should be it, I *think* [20:35:15] yep [20:35:54] Test it, let me know if it works? :) [20:40:00] here is what I've changed http://pastebin.com/HVLYZstT [20:49:49] marktraceur: to test, I have to add it to wikimedia yep ? [20:51:48] MediaWiki, yes :) [20:52:15] yes [20:58:00] vandrew_: You should make the first statement "var fileTitle = this.$useFile.data( 'title' )" and delete the "var $this = $( this )" because it's not useful anymore [21:01:54] ok [21:04:54] oh I already changed fileTitle [21:05:05] but I haven't removed var $this [21:05:11] Yeah, that should happen [21:09:02] now just a second to configure my wiki and add the extension [21:11:43] No problem [21:12:03] I'm not rushing to get this out, we haven't deployed the UI refactor anywhere anyway [21:14:02] I have school tommorow but I'll finish this before anything [21:14:52] Cool! I look forward to it. [21:18:03] (to reviewing your patch that is) [21:27:30] marktraceur: umm [21:27:58] marktraceur: I have configured my mediawiki [21:28:21] marktraceur: but the /index.php page is empty [21:28:42] Hm [21:28:50] vandrew_: Maybe a syntax error in your localsettings.php [21:29:05] Make sure you closed parentheses and put a semicolon after each line [21:30:22] weird, I haven't modified the file [21:30:29] it's the one that you download first [21:32:27] ?> it was missing at the end of the file [21:33:36] That doesn't matter [21:34:52] vandrew_: Can you give me a pastebin of your localsettings? [21:35:10] of course, just a second [21:36:12] http://pastebin.com/MkbeaCdM [21:39:09] aarcos: Can you poke fabriceflorin to get on IRC/ [21:39:10] ? [21:40:10] vandrew_: Weird. Can you look in the error log (usually /var/log/apache2/error.log) and tell me if there are any useful lines in there? [21:40:30] marktraceur: hey !, I think he is in an interview now, I will tell him once he is back. Let me know if I can be of any help though, ;-). [21:40:36] Balls. 'kay [21:40:47] aarcos: It's a product question about the caption card [21:41:10] ok, let him know that you are looking for him as soon as he is back [21:41:39] Thankee [21:41:53] vandrew_: Try adding error_reporting( -1 );ini_set( 'display_errors', 1 ); to the top of LocalSettings.php [21:43:26] marktraceur: Post it on his desk, cheers ! [21:44:03] bawolff: I've added them in index.php as well, here are the errors [21:44:06] Warning: require_once(/var/www/html/wiki/LocalSettings.php): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/WebStart.php on line 138 [21:44:37] ok, check the permissions on LocalSettings.php [21:44:39] Ahhh. [21:45:09] easiest way is to make it readable by all, if you're paranoid about security, just make sure its readable by the group that apache is in (if you are using linux/apache) [21:46:21] vandrew_: btw, for future reference, there's some tips at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_debug for when things randomly don't work [21:46:35] cool, thank you [21:50:28] exception 'PDOException' with message 'There is no active transaction' in /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/db/DatabaseSqlite.php:664 [21:50:47] seems that there are some problems regarding the database [21:51:00] :/ [21:52:21] That's interesting, as sqlite should probably be the second most supported db after mysql [21:53:22] I'll try mysql [21:54:21] sqlite really should just work though, its almost the same syntax wise as mysql, and all our unit tests use the sqlite backend [22:01:59] ok [22:02:02] works with mysql [22:03:11] robla robla robla? [22:05:38] marktraceur: to add an extension [22:05:49] I need to copy the extension directory [22:06:03] require_once "$IP/extensions/extension_name/extension_name.php" [22:06:08] and add this tep ? [22:06:10] yep* [22:06:20] but what does $IP mean, is the directory ? [22:07:26] ok I have added the extension [22:09:56] (03PS1) 10Aarcos: Add a tests to MultimediaViewer. Based on https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/96152/1 These are just smoke tests. I will add more in coming versions of this change. [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98009 [22:13:47] (03PS2) 10Aarcos: Add a tests to MultimediaViewer. Based on https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/96152/1 These are just smoke tests. I will add more in coming versions of this change. [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98009 [22:15:02] vandrew_: Just leave $IP as is, mediawiki replaces it [22:15:10] but yes, it stands for installation directory [22:15:21] * bawolff can't remember what the p stands for [22:15:57] p stands for path (d'oh) [22:26:14] marktraceur: it seems to work [22:26:23] I'll commit tommoworw [22:26:31] thank you for help [22:46:03] Hey marktraceur: You had a question? [22:46:13] Oh, yeah [22:46:21] fabriceflorin: Where should I be putting the captio? [22:46:23] caption* [22:46:32] I think a talk page person asked if it could go where the title is now [22:46:38] Because it's often more useful than the title [22:48:54] fabriceflorin: How'd the round table go? [22:48:55] marktraceur: I recommend we display the caption as the first paragraph of the description, followed by a carriage return or two, to separate it from the description. I don't see a need to distinguish it explicitly through italics or different shading, though Pau may want to propose something down the line. But just having it as the first paragraph is a a great step forward, in my view. [22:49:56] fabriceflorin: As part of the same div element, with the scroll bar? Or should I put it in a separate div? Or maybe I should remove the scrollability all together now that we have the scroll down thing... [22:50:05] altogether* [22:53:02] I would treat the whole thing as if it were one element, so you can scroll both together. Think of it as a sub-head before the main description. Again, I would consult with Pau on these issues, but simply adding it in without too much fuss is good progress. I would save our design time to deal with issues related to the close and full screen buttons, different sizes, etc. [22:54:19] Yeah [22:54:20] Sigh [22:54:24] marktraceur: You make a good point that we don't really need the scrollbar anymore, now that the whole thing is scrollable. Sorry for not catching that point in my earlier response. As far as I'm concerned, it's fine to lose the scrollbar for the description and just show the whole thing, now that it's all neatly tucked away below the image. [22:54:35] It's all right, yeah, I'll do that [22:54:44] It's way wider now, too, so long ones won't be so long [22:55:39] Cool. Sounds great to me. People really liked the new version of the Media Viewer in today's roundtable, BTW. Great responses overall, we'll put some highlights up on the Roundtable page. Have a great Thanksgiving! [22:56:29] Yup [22:56:53] fabriceflorin: I was lurking as promised, and was sorry to see you skip over the new version that's on alpha and beta right now, with the prev/next buttons implemented [22:58:04] fabriceflorin: I read over the etherpad, I noticed Fuzzeohead's request for stats, and I left him a talk page note about what's currently available, as it sounded like he wasn't aware that the total number of videos on commons is published [22:59:35] Fuzheado? :P [23:00:32] (03PS1) 10Vldandrew: Replaced this.$useFile instead of with $this inf ext.multimediaViewer.lightboxinterface.js [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98020 [23:00:39] Huzzah! [23:02:40] (03PS2) 10MarkTraceur: Replaced this.$useFile instead of with $this inf ext.multimediaViewer.lightboxinterface.js [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98020 (owner: 10Vldandrew) [23:02:43] people with their complicated user names. [23:02:53] We should replace them with numbers [23:02:58] bawolff: If you'd seen his head it wouldn't be as complicated [23:03:03] lol [23:05:18] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: [C: 04-1] "Quick review is quick! :)" (033 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98020 (owner: 10Vldandrew) [23:08:15] marktraceur: Sorry I didn't realize the next/previous arrows were already on beta. We'll definitely demo those next Wednesday. [23:10:24] bawolff: Thanks for connecting with Andrew Lih - Yeah, the latest number of video files is about 38k files -- versus 18 million image files. From my viewpoint, video is unlikely to take off on our sites, unless we agree to support the more popular video formats, even if it's only on a temporary basis. :) [23:12:09] Depends where we want to take video too. Its important to keep in mind that a video is inherently more work then an image file, especially to make a professional one [23:12:38] So I don't think having an equal, or even anywhere close to equal number of image<->video files isa realistic goal [23:17:29] but yeah, we're certainly not at a point where the inherent difficulty of video is a problem [23:17:48] or the limiting factor [23:19:09] fabriceflorin: btw, did you see the recent category clean up game they made on commons? [23:19:44] fabriceflorin: Where basically they presented the user with an item from a specific clean up category (images that might be from facebook), and had them "fix" it [23:20:25] It was really successful, and might be something of a model for certain types of "gamification" of wiki tasks [23:20:45] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:VP#Facebook_Funfair.21_.28A_Commons_maintenance_game.29 [23:22:21] bawolff: As a longtime video producer, I agree that video is a more complex content type, which requires more attention than still images (which is why I mostly shoot photos these days, due to lack of time to edit good videos). So the lion's share of our content will most likely remain in the still image camp. But it's embarrassing that we don't have better representation on the video front, when the entire culture is [23:22:22] moving in that direction. [23:25:00] yeah, definitely [23:25:12] bawolff: I missed the category clean up game, thanks so much for pointing this out to me. The Facebook Funfair is a clever concept, and kudos to Fae for initiating it -- even though it seems a bit hostile to Facebook users :( [23:25:26] Did you follow the roundtable on YouTube? Any thoughts? [23:25:59] It actually wasn't meant as hostile to facebook users - he was aiming to just make sure there was a link back to facebook to keep track of source information [23:26:17] Fae actually went on a bit of tirade when people tried to delete all the facebook images [23:27:04] fabriceflorin: The different perspectives on video, especially some of the cultural issues was interesting, but I don't have much to add to that [23:28:03] I will note, that video works on my smartphone (well most of the time...) [23:28:31] Yes, there were a number of interesting insights for me throughout the conversation. I will aim to pull them out and add them to the wiki page in coming days. I agree the cultural issues are particularly interesting. [23:29:09] Of course cultural issues are things that usually we have to let the community sort out for themselves [23:29:51] The other thing I'd note - be careful with social media stuff. That's a hot button issue [23:30:07] bawolff: Thanks for the clarifications about Fae's intent for the Facebook Funhouse. It wasn't clear to me at first glance, will delve into this more deeply when I catch my breath :) [23:30:34] However, commons folks are ok with links to social networking sites [23:31:07] Its the Wikipedians who seem to hate it (and people have tried to push it on them over and over again. It has come up many many times). [23:31:45] Usually I think the argument is some (misplaced) concern about privacy, as well as some concern that a social networking link is to "informal" a tone for a serious work like Wikipedia [23:32:21] On commons we already have links to social media sites on the image description page [23:32:57] bawolff: Yeah, the social media issues are so interesting to me as a newcomer in this community. I hope over time community members will relax a bit more about this. We're social creatures, and it's important to be able to share your achievements with friends and followers. We have a responsibility to respect that user need, even if it's not a perfect match for our ideology. [23:35:31] (03PS3) 10Aarcos: Add a tests to MultimediaViewer. Based on https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/96152/1 These are just smoke tests. I will add more in coming versions of this change. Consolidated various cases in one tests. [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/98009 [23:42:08] Thanks, aaron_arcos, for all your help on these multimedia tests this week -- as well as for being such a great co-facilitator on the roundtable :) [23:44:09] fabriceflorin: Avec plaisir Monsieur !, ;-). [23:45:50] Je vous souhaite tous un très bon weekend :) Joyeux "remerciements"? [23:46:29] fabriceflorin: Nice work today !, nice holidays !, A+ [23:47:56] :)