[00:41:39] fabriceflorin: OK, now I've worked through the nasty HTML code, I'm looking at the wikitext. Do we need the weird external link business? There are image embeds all over our wikis that do nothing even *close* to what you're suggesting in the card. [00:43:01] If I were clicking on the wikitext tab, I would expect like [[File:Foobar.jpg|thumb|A helpful caption]] or something [00:43:07] Not a three-line caption [00:43:26] I think the same links are needed for wikitext as for HTML and the metadata panel. The external links are needed to the CC license deed, as well as when we are crediting an author on Flickr or their original file page on Flickr. [00:43:40] The fact that Wikipedia doesn't give proper attribution to image creators is no reason not to encourage them to do so. [00:43:50] "proper" is a very relative term [00:44:04] Our lawyers have determined that linking to the file page is enough, IIRC [00:44:23] The fact of the matter is that the images are used under CC licenses which are very explicit about what should be included when using an image licensed under those terms. [00:44:25] The Commons community wanting three lines of attribution isn't enough reason to break Wikipedians' workflows IMO [00:44:53] OK, if this is a legal issue, let's ask a lawyer? [00:45:03] You cannot use someone's content and refuse to honor the terms under which the content was licensed in the first place. [00:45:51] I can ask a lawyer again, but they will tell me the same thing they told me earlier: follow the CC guidelines. That's what this spec does. And that's what the Commons community is asking. [00:46:10] For *embedding in Wikitext*, I had thought this was a settled issue [00:46:21] If you have an email from someone saying otherwise, then I'd like to see that [00:46:31] And probably Wikipedia's VP should be notified about the change in policy [00:46:45] (03PS18) 10Gergő Tisza: Preload prev/next images [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/111428 [00:46:48] If the Wikipedia editors want to abridge the embedded info, it's their prerogative. But at least we are providing the proper attribution, in case they are willing to honor the terms of the CC license. [00:47:34] OK, see, I think we have way too many mandates here [00:47:44] We're mandated to help readers, but they don't care about this, so let's skip that [00:48:02] My recommendation for now is to implement the spec as it exists. I can ask legal advice in parallel, but right now we are following the CC license guidelines as posted on their site. [00:48:04] We're mandated to help content creators, sure, and their opinion is that they need three lines of attribution info on every page that uses their image [00:48:26] But we're mandated to help editors on these sites with a useful tool, and every single one of them will want a caption, not a bunch of copyright jargon [00:48:38] Our job is to find a happy medium between the needs of the readers, the creators and the other stakeholders. [00:48:45] And AFAIK, using images on our sites is a special case [00:49:02] If not, again, we need to tell someone so *every Wikipedia page* can stop violating CC licenses [00:49:25] OK, let me raise these questions with Luis and let's see where we end up. [00:49:30] 'kay. [00:49:44] I'll implement the ridiculous-looking version for now [00:50:46] Thanks. At the very least, it will bring up this issue to the forefront, as it is one of the points of contention between the Commons and Wikipedia communities. We can find a happy medium based on the community feedback from these two key consitutuencies. [00:51:47] This may be a case where having a checkbox for 'short credit' would give us the best of both worlds. :) [00:52:03] WP editors won't want short credit, they'll want no credit [00:53:17] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: Preload prev/next images (032 comments) [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/111428 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [00:56:06] Got it. I suppose the option would be 'Do not include attribution' then. Let me bring all these issues up with legal, to see if there is a creative way to honor the Creative Commons requirements on Wikipedia without pissing off the editors. Will Cc: you. [00:56:53] Heading home, so tata for now. [01:27:27] Ugh [01:27:53] Fun problem #2: The HTML we have on the page is not useful for including in Wikitext [01:27:57] Eff eff eff [01:28:49] fabriceflorin: I think there's an issue with this, still - we don't have machine readable information about the author and source, so including links for them would be easy enough in HTML if they got returned from CMD, but impossible in Wikitext without, like, going backwards through Parsoid [01:29:11] Or hacking in Wikitext round-tripping in MMV. [01:29:13] Which is bad. [01:43:52] rdwrer: OK, so for WikiText, why don't you implement the same basic solution we now have in 'Use this file' on Commons, and let me bring up the general issue with Luis. It could be that by clicking on the file to see the metadata in Media Viewer, it can be deemed to provide the credit. If not, is it possible to specify in Wikitext a tooltip with the license info as you hover over a thumbnail? Or is that also impossible? [01:47:06] fabriceflorin: Totally - alt text is settable in wikitext. [01:48:50] rdwrer: So would that be a reasonable compromise solution? To display the full license info as a plain text tooltip rather than a caption below the image? Then they could click on the image to get all the links in the metadata panel? [01:49:15] Sure, easy. [01:49:42] Testing now. [01:50:41] OK, let's go for that, then. So we honor the CC requirements in plain text, but without links, and they can click on the image to get the links. We could even say at the end of the tooltip: 'For more license info, click on the thumbnail.' [01:51:29] Ugh, I guess I have to do the same big nasty checking for license and author and so forth...urgh [01:51:42] Refactoring is nice but I'd much rather have realized this the first go... [01:51:57] rdwrer: We have to meet them halfway. At least make an effort to honor the license terms. [01:52:17] fabriceflorin: It's still an open question as to whether the license terms aren't being met. [01:52:55] Yeah, I'm finishing my email to Luis now, should be out in a couple minutes. So we should have an answer tomorrow. [01:57:01] (03PS19) 10Gergő Tisza: Preload prev/next images [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/111428 [01:57:03] (03PS6) 10Gergő Tisza: Add TaskQueue class [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/112581 [01:57:05] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Fix fullscreen bug where image was replaced with self [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/112835 [02:01:48] (03PS3) 10Gergő Tisza: Preload fullscreen image [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/112753 [02:05:55] rdwrer: Email sent. Logging out now to take care of my body and soul. Over and out. [02:06:01] Ta [02:06:12] Thanks for your fine work, as always! :) [14:56:32] (03PS1) 10Zfilipin: WIP Moved tests from browsertests repository [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/112895 [16:19:32] (03PS2) 10Zfilipin: WIP Moved tests from browsertests repository [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/112895 [16:34:10] (03PS3) 10Zfilipin: WIP Moved tests from browsertests repository [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/112895 [17:55:36] (03PS13) 10Gergő Tisza: Embedding Static Map to UploadWizard [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/107892 (owner: 10Inchikutty) [17:56:05] (03PS9) 10Gergő Tisza: Adding Leaflet scripts to UploadWizard [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109063 (owner: 10Inchikutty) [17:56:52] (03PS17) 10Gergő Tisza: Embedding leaflet maps based on OSM data to UploadWizard [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/109263 (owner: 10Inchikutty) [17:59:57] tgr: You're missing scrum notes for yesterday and today - gi11es, just today, but still :) [18:01:06] eh, i always forget to update the last update date [18:01:18] isn't there a way to automate that? [18:02:20] is it using the Extension:Labeled Section Transclusion? [19:02:44] (03PS1) 10MarkTraceur: WIP Add share and embed panel, replace reuse [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/112928 [19:02:46] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] WIP Add share and embed panel, replace reuse [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/112928 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [19:02:51] Ugh. [19:05:15] pginer: Are we married to the design of the buttons for HTML/Wikitext in https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/148 ? [19:05:27] The patch I just pushed uses the oojs-ui defaults [19:05:32] But I could change them slightly also. [19:08:15] rdwrer: we should use "standard" button groups [19:08:30] So...the oojs-ui ones? [19:08:43] I can push the patch to alpha and you can see what I mean, maybe [19:08:46] I have not seen those. I have seen the Agora ones here: http://ee-flow-extra.instance-proxy.wmflabs.org/w/resources/mediawiki.ui/docs/section-2.html [19:09:14] Those don't look like what we have in the mockup [19:10:02] pginer: Won't there be a restyle of all oojs-ui elements to adhere to agora anyway? [19:11:22] I have no idea. I have not seen the oohs widget catalog. Is there any URL where those can be seen? [19:11:47] Hm. I don't think a public one. [19:11:49] James_F: [19:12:04] I can show you on alpha, though [19:12:31] ok [19:12:39] where are you? [19:12:53] South side of the 3rd floor [19:14:15] ok, let me find my compass and I'll be there in a minute [19:14:26] rdwrer: Did you want me to wander over too? [19:14:59] James_F: No, I was looking for a public widgets gallery [19:15:03] I think it doesn't exist [19:15:15] rdwrer: No, we've got a bug open with the CI team to let us have one. [19:15:16] pginer: Near the rest of the MM team! [19:15:28] rdwrer: doc.wikimedia.org -> … [19:15:48] James_F: That would be really nice, yeah [19:16:02] rdwrer: Yeah. [19:56:12] fabriceflorin, pginer, http://multimedia-alpha.wmflabs.org/wiki/Lightbox_demo has a hacky first version of the embed/share business [19:56:30] I'm about to skip out to lunch and then I have committed to do core jsduck patches for a while [19:57:07] rdwrer: Cool. Will review after lunch (now posting report on AFT5, so will stay focused on this for an hour or so). [19:57:19] Oh, sweet [19:57:29] Link that when you do it, I'm intrigued to see it [19:58:48] rdwrer: Will do. [20:55:17] Right, peace out, I'm doing jsduck things in core for a while [21:32:46] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Move jquery.throttle-debounce to core [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/112959 [21:33:40] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Move jquery.throttle-debounce to core [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/112959 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [21:38:37] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: [C: 04-2] "Unfulfilled core dependency." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/112959 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [21:39:22] I know, I'll write a script that greps for Warning: messages in the jsduck output [21:39:27] PERFECT. [22:19:29] (03PS1) 10MarkTraceur: Search for jsduck warnings, fail if found [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113023 [22:19:34] Woo [22:20:47] tgr: ^^ finally. [22:21:01] * rdwrer goes to dump that into core too [22:21:14] ugh [22:21:28] I know [22:21:29] couldn't we just upgrade jsduck? [22:21:41] No, latest version is still broken! [22:21:51] https://github.com/senchalabs/jsduck/issues/525 [22:22:09] Ideally when that issue is closed, we will upgrade, but until then it's pointless [22:22:22] Plus I think some of the v5 syntax is different from v4, so we may need to do some porting. [22:22:25] oh ok [22:22:49] i didn't get the problem while i was using v5, but then probably it was just luck [22:23:03] Maybe so [22:24:00] Hrm [22:24:15] Core's job is configured in the integration repo, I guess. Sigh. [22:25:28] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: [C: 032] Search for jsduck warnings, fail if found [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113023 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [22:26:00] (03Merged) 10jenkins-bot: Search for jsduck warnings, fail if found [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113023 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [22:27:58] rdwrer: do you have any review capacity for today? [22:28:22] Hm, I'm leaving in about 15 minutes :( [22:28:37] Tomorrow I will be much better, I'm not sure about tonight [22:29:44] something serious? [22:29:50] the dentist i mean [22:29:50] No, just dentistry [22:29:58] Fillings [22:30:05] But they're giving me some crazy drugs I guess [22:30:15] eww [22:30:21] good luck then [22:30:24] Yeh [22:45:24] Core is doing it now too [22:45:25] Fun times [22:46:07] Off to the dentist etc. [22:51:44] #118: (GT) O:GT|S:ID -- https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/118 [23:55:27] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Add Information template Permission field to API output [extensions/CommonsMetadata] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/113047