[03:00:08] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: Embed should use localized wikitext - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/64710#c10 (10Tisza Gergő) Nothing. I had doubts after submitting this patch so I started a mailing list thread about it; there was no consensus (nor much interest, really) so no reason not to mer... [03:46:37] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3UploadWizard: Basic tour for 'own work' UploadWizard upload - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/51985#c3 (10Matthew Flaschen) Being tracked by the multimedia team, and I recommend it go in the UploadWizard repository, so moving bug. [06:35:10] (03CR) 10Gilles: "The difference is whether or not this change was discussed as a team or not. With no mingle card and no bug reference, I can only assume t" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [06:49:32] (03CR) 10Gilles: "I'm only following the convention set by the QA team. Your suggestion differs from it." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/139811 (owner: 10Gilles) [07:09:22] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: Embed should use localized wikitext - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/64710#c11 (10Nemo) When there is no consensus, you should follow standards. That is, wiki content language. Whatever. Here's the link I mentioned above. http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/multi... [07:22:24] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: "If this is a coding convention for Selenium tests, fine. (Although in that case it should probably be documented at https://www.mediawiki." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/139811 (owner: 10Gilles) [07:22:31] (03CR) 10Siebrand: "Gilles: Are you stating that changes to the repo mediawiki/extensions/MultimediaViewer can only be made when there's a WMF workflow syste" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [07:22:38] (03CR) 10Siebrand: [C: 031] Change "learn more" to "learn more about this file" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [07:32:51] O.O [07:42:21] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: [C: 031] "Yeah, I have to say, I don't like the tone that comment took very much. We do changes on our off time, and we review changes from communit" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [08:11:22] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: "Gilles: it is not clear to me whether you think this specific change is potentially problematic and should be discussed with Pau and Fabri" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [09:23:32] (03CR) 10Gilles: "I think that wording changes and visual changes should involve Pau at a minimum. That's how I've always handled things before, because mor" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [09:29:53] (03CR) 10Siebrand: "Then you should have simply added Pau as a reviewer. Done now." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [09:31:40] (03CR) 10Gilles: "That's often not enough as he doesn't always watch Gerrit every day, Gergo will need to poke him." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [09:39:44] (03CR) 10Yuvipanda: [C: 031] "> After all nobody questions the fact that Siebrand has i18n review authority, and we tend to almost always wait for his opinion before +2" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [09:53:23] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3UploadWizard: UploadWizard blocks upgrade when used with PostgreSQL - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/64067#c5 (10Andre Klapper) 5PATC>3RESO/FIX Thanks for the heads-up. Closing as RESOLVED FIXED (which means that a fix was merged into the code repository). [10:00:37] (03CR) 10Gilles: "Follow-up fixes are quite inefficient when the alternative was to just wait for someone's feedback. The fact that it happens for i18n does" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [10:07:47] (03CR) 10Yuvipanda: "> It didn't look prone to conflict that could have slowed down our engineering work either." [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [10:26:27] hey gi11es! sorry if that came across as inflamattory. I've removed myself from that PS since I don't think I can contribute anything useful there (plus I don't have any patches in MMV anyway) [10:28:04] (03CR) 10Gilles: "Volunteers can submit whatever they want. They don't have to create a Mingle ticket, they don't have to consult anyone, they don't have to" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [10:29:06] * YuviPanda waves [11:57:46] are we aware that IE7 is throwing errors over OOjs [11:57:57] apparently a dependency by mmv. [12:06:39] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: MMV/OOjs: IE7 reports an error on pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66713 (10Derk-Jan Hartman) 3NEW p:3Unprio s:3normal a:3None When I use IE7 to visit a page, I get the uncaught error: SCRIPT1010: Expected identifier load.php, line 81 character 619... [14:15:38] hey gi11es, have 2 commits i'm hoping are okay now … https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/133684/ and https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/139410/. please let me know if you have any further ?'s [14:44:53] dan-nl: I have meetings coming up, I'll take a look at them tomorrow in the morning. should be fine [14:45:42] thedj: yes, and IE < 9 isn't supported by mmv as a result of OOJS' lack of support. i.e. mmv shouldn't start on those browsers [14:46:13] I recall that there is a ticket to avoid loading OOJS at all on unsupported browsers. to avoid those console errors, I presume [14:46:59] gi11es: but it is loading right now right ? [14:47:50] thedj: I think OOJS loads with the page, yes, because it's declared as a dependency in PHP. at least that's what I imagine is happening [14:48:02] let me dig up the mingle ticket [14:48:16] ok, so we expect to have error on IE7 right now [14:48:20] in production [14:49:03] yes, the fix is considered low priority because mmv won't work anyway, given that oojs doesn't support those browsers yet [14:49:17] it's just a matter of failing over more elegantly, without js errors [14:49:35] https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/574 which has been given a low priority, though [14:50:10] supporting those browsers in OOJS is on our radar and OOJS maintainer's radar as well, it'll happen eventually [14:50:23] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: MMV/OOjs: IE7 reports an error on pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66713#c1 (10Derk-Jan Hartman) https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/574 [14:50:28] my understanding is that it's mostly a matter of writing polyfills [14:51:05] thanks gi11es [14:51:23] I'd rather spend energy on writing the OOJS support for these browsers, to be honest [14:51:37] 3MediaWiki extensions / 3MultimediaViewer: MMV/OOjs: IE7 reports an error on pages - 10https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66713 (10Derk-Jan Hartman) [14:54:26] i just think it's weird we have production code generates errors. As a policy i have my IE7 set to throw all of those in my face, since they happen way too often without anyone noticing it. [15:16:52] (03CR) 10MarkTraceur: "inb4 changes to the Gerrit terms of use" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [15:41:05] marktraceur: I don't follow :) what terms of use? [15:41:54] gi11es: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2014-June/072747.html [15:42:48] hah, yeah, the wiki analogy crossed my mind [15:43:11] I don't think we want to live in a world of revert wars on commit, though [15:43:58] applied to the code, the wiki dynamics of editing would be very tiring, I think [15:44:31] It's not a perfect analogy, but we want to be closer to it [15:45:12] I don't think it's workable when working on something as structured and codependent as code [15:45:54] when you edit a document modifying a sentence of paragraph hardly affects the rest [15:46:05] *or paragraph [15:46:58] that lack of side-effect is what allows a wiki editing dynamic [15:57:55] gi11es: But this is literally a text change [15:58:13] The only effects are 1. Text changes 2. Translators need to translate the new text [15:58:43] And anyway, structure is one thing, but entirely WMF structure is problematic [15:58:56] 3. users see a different UI message [15:59:10] it's common courtesy to involve the person whose responsibility is users' experience [15:59:43] "the person"... [15:59:49] imagine Pau and another designer with +2 rights changing JS code without looping in a developer [16:00:06] it concerns us, we'd like to see it [16:00:28] I'd be OK with that. Pau is a competent dude, if the person who +2d the code was confident, they must have had a reason to be [16:00:36] If they didn't, they won't have +2 power very long [16:01:02] the issue is that you think that we have design abilities [16:01:05] it's not in our job description [16:01:22] we can have an opinion about it, bring it up, suggest a change, even in code form [16:01:44] but it's not our job to change what users are seeing without consulting team members whose core responsibility is caring about that stuff [16:02:11] develoeprs don't rule the product because they can +2 [16:02:47] it's not fair to the UI team to slip these changes past them when it takes so little effort for them to OK it [16:03:09] more eyes on the ball makes for better decisions [16:03:37] especially considering that right now we're focusing on the details/moving little things around [16:06:29] This patch has been in review for a while [16:06:33] There's no secrecy, here [16:06:52] If they wanted to chime in they're always able to. Pau, as you say, knows how to Gerrit. [16:07:04] it's ridiculous to expect Pau to patrol our changesets, the majority of the time the code changes have nothing to do with UI [16:07:25] or they've already been through the UI design process [16:08:00] it's not a good use of resources to put that burden on Pau, when the effort we would have to provide is so small (remember to invite him to the changeset when appropriate) [16:09:08] gi11es: We've seen volunteers depending on WMF resources before, and that history makes me a little skittish - not so much about this instance, but the precedent it sets [16:10:23] I don't understand how different it is from code review and i18n review [16:11:27] gi11es: It sounds like you're saying the *WMF* needs to weigh in on the code before it goes through. CR can be done by competent volunteers (rillke, matmarex, thedj) and i18n has a bunch of volunteers (Nemo comes to mind) [16:11:55] that's not what I said, it's whoever has been given authority on UI [16:12:05] right now that doesn't include any volunteers for Media Viewer [16:12:08] Well, what's the process for expanding that? [16:12:20] Because it's not like getting +2 in Gerrit [16:12:24] that's something for the UI team to figure out, how they would involve volunteers [16:12:36] But now it's involved in our process [16:12:38] meanwhile from our perspective the only thing that matters is getting the UI authority to weigh in on UI changes [16:12:56] whether that's currently 100% WMF really isn't my problem [16:13:09] And if the WMF design team decides they're the only ones who get to decide over matters of UX, then that's that? [16:13:27] I think we're doing a decent job interacting with volunteers from an engineering perspective and I'd be happy giving +2 to competent volunteers [16:13:44] marktraceur: that's an issue you can take up with the WMF [16:13:53] I live in the status quo [16:14:23] and in that current reality, Pau is the person to involve [16:14:58] involving volunteer UI work is an interesting topic, but it's off-topic when it comes to what we need to do right now for these changesets [16:15:36] This change is already on the "right" course from your point of view, and I'm not unhappy about that [16:15:43] I'm worried about what happens down the road [16:16:21] I think it's really a discussion to have with the UI team, I understand your wish but at the end of the day they're the ones who have to deal with that [16:16:34] and I have the impression that they'd be pretty understaffed right now to deal with volunteer contributions [16:16:48] I think that sets up a false sense of the WMF owning this product in general, which is my main concern [16:16:52] we greatly outnumber them, which is why we're comfortable spending time on volunteer stuff [16:17:23] (or any product for that matter) [16:17:35] UI experts own the UI, and if UI experts can include community members and volunteers, that'd be nice [16:17:46] Fairy nuff [16:18:04] it's a luxury, though, I think it's really because of how numerous we're in engineering that we can do it [16:18:27] I mean, I guess the design list exists and has posters who are not WMFers [16:18:29] there's definitely a case to be made for a bigger UI team [16:18:38] which would then have the bandwidth to handle contributions [16:18:48] But smaller stuff doesn't get much attention, maybe because there's not really a centralized place for these changes [16:19:15] I don't know if a bigger UI team is the answer [16:19:40] I think maybe a shifting of priorities in the UI team is a better answer that I can't really give, being merely an engineer-cog :) [16:20:58] I'm pretty sure the engineering department has a higher priority for reviewing and shepherding community work, not only because we're bigger, but because it's always been one of our priorities to involve the community in our work, to mentor, to avoid being the only people working on this stuff [16:21:24] I think it's easier given the medium [16:21:35] design is hard to do incrementally [16:22:22] Makes sense [16:22:23] and with engineering the code speaks for itself, whereas for design you generally have a whole rationale, user testing, etc. around what ends up being the deliverable [16:22:40] gi11es: Plays into it, I'm sure [16:23:00] I have a feeling there will be a mail to some design folk at some point [16:24:38] an easier way to make that happen would be to have someone like aaron arcos volunteer as a designer [16:25:19] but then they're still on the WMF train somehow, it would be a volunteer contribution but not a fully non-WMF contribution [16:26:11] My Terms of Use finger is getting twitchy again :) [16:26:18] Anyway [16:26:29] I'm not worried about it immediately anymore [16:27:03] Things are on the way to being resolved [18:23:55] marktraceur: where does the multimedia-metrics machine live? I have looked at the multimedia labs project instances but haven't found it [18:24:36] It's limn0 in analytics [18:24:43] Er, limn1 now [18:24:43] Sorry [19:03:39] (03CR) 10Gergő Tisza: "Pinged Pau. I still think asking him to review all text changes will be unscalable; I can see the need for extra caution now when MediaVie" [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138303 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [19:07:44] (03PS2) 10Brian Wolff: Only do pop up video player if we actually have a bigger size [extensions/TimedMediaHandler] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/138307 [20:00:31] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Convert Mac line endings to Linux ones for some SVG files [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/140195 [20:00:54] Hah [20:01:20] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Convert Mac line endings to Linux ones for some SVG files [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/140195 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [20:01:28] ...what [20:01:45] Oh, Jenkins just being picky [20:04:52] (03PS2) 10Gergő Tisza: Convert Mac line endings to Linux ones for some SVG files [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/140195 [20:25:22] (03CR) 10Krinkle: [C: 04-1] Create title in file NS and validate as such (032 comments) [extensions/UploadWizard] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/139592 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66366) (owner: 10Rillke) [21:21:41] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Make opacity rules compatible with IE6-8 [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/140224 [21:24:56] tgr gi11es: I just posted a first stub page for the Structured data project here, based on this morning’s discussion. Feel free to edit as you see fit: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Multimedia/Structured_Data [21:26:04] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Small refactor in canvas.js, no functional change [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/140226 [21:26:37] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Small refactor in canvas.js, no functional change [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/140226 (owner: 10Gergő Tisza) [21:35:36] Crap. [21:35:51] tgr: I'm seeing UsageTerms coming out as "Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0\n

", [21:36:01] Which like...I can sanitize, but also ew. [21:37:35] you can try tweaking TemplateParser::$cleanupPatterns in CommonsMetadata [21:37:47] That might be more better [21:37:57] add a new pattern for empty paragraphs maybe [21:38:01] I'll do that after I submit this patch (coming soon to a gerrit near you) [21:38:06] tgr: And trailing whitespace [21:38:26] that's done already, it's just that it is not really trailing here [21:38:30] Ah yeah [21:39:05] keep in mind though that CMD is heavily cached, so if this is causing problems, you will still need to deal with that on the client-side [21:39:22] *nod* it's already dealt with there [21:39:30] It was a signal that I needed to sanitize that anyway [21:47:17] Heh, my tests fail because the geohack URLs are set to language=en-gb :) [21:50:12] (03PS2) 10Gergő Tisza: Make max-height computation more stable [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/140226 (https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/66244) [21:54:02] (03PS2) 10MarkTraceur: Add section for attribution of downloads [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/139295 [21:54:04] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Add section for attribution of downloads [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/139295 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [21:54:22] ...oh [21:56:45] (03PS3) 10MarkTraceur: Add section for attribution of downloads [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/139295 [21:57:15] (03CR) 10jenkins-bot: [V: 04-1] Add section for attribution of downloads [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/139295 (owner: 10MarkTraceur) [21:59:39] (03PS4) 10MarkTraceur: Add section for attribution of downloads [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/139295 [22:22:01] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Fullscreen improvements [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/140240 [23:29:24] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Make the metadata panel opening affordance more obvious [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/140247 [23:48:59] (03PS1) 10Gergő Tisza: Tweak optout popup texts [extensions/MultimediaViewer] - 10https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/140251