[21:59:08] superm401: I would voice you for office hours, but chanserv sez you're not registered [21:59:26] We'll get started in a moment, I'm just going to spam some other channels [21:59:29] StevenW, what do you mean? [21:59:44] I have a Wikipedia hostmask and NickServ. [21:59:53] hmm. let me try again [22:00:14] superm401 [~matthew@wikipedia/Superm401] - looks like he is [22:00:20] hey StevenW [22:00:27] hey tom :) [22:00:33] StevenW, you don't need chanserv to voicep eople :) [22:00:34] I think I just typed the command wrong [22:00:39] /mode #wikimedia-office +v nick [22:00:39] * jorm yawns at you all. [22:00:45] voice people* [22:01:35] i am seeing several requests for guided tours. very exciting [22:01:48] Hey TheHelpfulOne, good to meet again! [22:01:55] hi fabriceflorin :) [22:02:00] jorm, that's great. [22:02:13] Hi tommorris, always a pleasure! [22:02:29] hey fabriceflorin [22:02:39] * tommorris thinks we need a "how to troll" guided tour for ANI [22:02:40] aloha [22:03:21] * jorm is somewhat skilled at trolling. [22:04:13] brb [22:04:25] * StevenW is tempted to voice DarTar anyway [22:04:46] Doesn't everyone already have voice? [22:05:22] Alright, so who has questions? [22:05:24] Yes, and we never mute the channel. [22:05:33] The point is to identify team members :) [22:06:09] so, guided tour looks awesome. sorry, that's not a question, that's just a statement. but hopefully a positive useful statement. [22:06:16] :) [22:06:21] agreed [22:06:29] Thanks Tom, Ocaasi. [22:06:35] The teams encourage an us v. them mentality. [22:07:19] Attitudes from folks in particular can encourage that more. [22:07:32] Tom this is really just the early stages [22:07:42] we're doing two things to try and develop it further [22:07:42] What happened to LastModified? [22:07:42] Does anyone have a tour they'd lke to write? [22:07:53] Oh, is this session only about GuidedTours? [22:07:56] Or E3 generally? [22:08:00] E3 generally [22:08:03] so, I'm pretty sure English Wikinews might want one. I might write it. [22:08:07] What happened to LastModified? [22:08:10] Generally [22:08:28] When we finish a round of experimenting with something [22:08:31] could guided tours be integrated with interactive editing, where a user could for example be presented with a task in a sandbox and then be guided through it? [22:08:51] Ocaasi_: You mean navigating the user through the edit process/window? [22:09:01] we stop, look at the results, and then decide the next step based on what we can tell from the data [22:09:12] Ocassi_, yes, we'll be doing something similar soon with a gettingstarted tour we have in place. [22:09:13] sure, mixing guidance with an editing task of some type, but not on live articles [22:09:36] StevenW: What happens after? [22:09:42] grr, wifi [22:09:42] Ocassi_, sure, there's no requirement it be on a live article. [22:09:45] If the experiment is successful, for example. [22:09:46] See what I just said [22:09:54] The results from the A/B test of LastModified clearly suggested that interesting things were going on, but it wasn't clear that it drove editing of articles [22:09:59] How do you determine if something would take more effort to experiment with than to just develop directly and deploy? [22:10:12] great superm401, i'd be very interested in that capability [22:10:21] StevenW: But it was generally useful. Any chance it could be deployed? [22:10:35] are we talking about lastmodified? it's now live on mobile web :) [22:10:39] Sure, but we're probably not going to spend cycles on it officially [22:10:43] Maryana: Yeah. [22:10:55] StevenW: I'm confused on the path forward for such projects/code, then. [22:11:00] It seems like it's been sent to purgatory. [22:11:01] Isarra: I'd suggest that experimentation is worthwhile doing anyway for the purpose of getting the community onside. (not that when you do provide comprehensive statistics, it makes much difference to people getting shouty about things. see: AFT5) [22:11:10] It has, if you want to put it that way. [22:11:31] tommorris: Let's try to avoid a discussion of E2's work. :-) [22:11:34] (Oh, you have comprehensive high-quality statistics? BUT I HAVE ANECDOTES!) [22:11:34] But that's how prioritization works. You don't make everything to test a permanent feature just because you tested it out. [22:11:42] With larger things, certainly, but what about smaller things - things that just look better, or things that would be helpful but don't really affect much? [22:12:07] tommorris: Right. Actual experience usually trumps manipulated stats when people are trying to evaluate something. Shockingly. ;-) [22:12:18] tommorris, re an English Wikinews tour, the goto doc for now is https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Guided_tours/Write_an_on-wiki_tour [22:12:34] I am going to keep improving that, and add example code. [22:12:41] > Hoever [22:12:46] Ocaasi_: did you get your earlier question answered? [22:13:00] "could guided tours be integrated with interactive editing, where a user could for example be presented with a task in a sandbox and then be guided through it?" [22:13:10] StevenW: superm401 answered it, yeah. [22:13:16] k, just checking [22:13:25] The answer is "yes, and it doesn't have to be on live articles." [22:13:31] yep [22:13:38] Are there plans to make a tour GUI? [22:13:47] Or will it be MediaWiki namespace editing for the indefinite future? [22:13:54] Susan, a GUI for making tours? [22:14:01] superm401: had a pretty interesting idea on that front... [22:14:03] Yes. [22:14:04] heh. there's no such thing as a small thing when it comes to mediawiki [22:14:04] i do think small interface design changes are very, very important, isarra (obviously!) [22:14:04] but i don't think it's in the scope of e3 to do them unless they directly lead to a higher active editor number [22:14:20] It is MW namespace for now. [22:14:26] superm401: do you want to describe the idea about auto-generating tours? [22:14:35] However, you can already have the tour content (descriptions) outside MW namespace. [22:14:41] Maryana: Sure, but I'm left wondering what the path forward is for projects like LastModified ,then. E2? [22:14:41] StevenW: yes, thanks [22:14:42] Which we're actually doing on the test tour already. [22:14:44] So how do you determine if it is in scope to test it at all, vs just throwing the idea at someone else... [22:14:50] Maryana: [22:14:51] The related bug for superm401's idea is https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44597 [22:14:53] ^66 [22:14:54] StevenW, sure. [22:14:59] * Isarra smacks her keyboard. [22:15:01] It was more ori-l's idea originally. [22:15:10] susan: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Micro_Design_Improvements [22:15:10] But it's basically similar to an Office macro. [22:15:20] Maryana: Right. Seems to have stalled/died. :-/ [22:15:27] i'm working on fixing that [22:15:30] You click through and it generates most of the tour based on your actions, then you fill in descriptions. [22:15:37] Oh, cool. :-) [22:15:41] This is still a hypothetical, though. [22:15:42] could some of those ideas like lastmodified be turned into gadgets? [22:15:57] so on GuidedTour, question: do I need Foundation people to turn it on, or can I just plough into having one on en.wikinews? (if I get consent from other users, obvs.) [22:15:57] Maryana: Hmm, right. I remember this now. The changes were en.wiki-specific and all done in JS. [22:16:04] the docs don't quite make it clear [22:16:17] tommorris, yes, it needs to be installed. [22:16:25] tommorris: we have to enable the extension but once it's there you can play around [22:16:30] https://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/InitialiseSettings.php.txt [22:16:36] It's not enabled by default. [22:16:42] Is there a pipeline for successful experiments to be developed in full? [22:16:43] so, bugzilla presumably? [22:16:45] (Grep "UseGuidedTour".) [22:16:48] Yes. [22:16:56] Any wiki can request it using the normal mechanism, [22:17:03] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Wikimedia then Extension setup. [22:17:15] Isarra: yes. We intentionally decided not to move forward on LastModified. [22:17:24] superm401: That's not right. [22:17:25] extension setup? I thought it was site requests [22:17:33] StevenW: So where do they go? [22:17:35] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requesting_wiki_configuration_changes [22:17:38] Who takes over? [22:17:56] Extension setup: New extensions to get installed or enabled. Just like 'Site configuration' but more specific. [22:17:56] [22:17:57] No one, unless they want to. [22:17:58] Susan, what's not right? [22:18:12] superm401: Extension requests is for new extension requests, I think. [22:18:16] Like having an extension written. [22:18:20] Ah. [22:18:27] Oh, my mistake. [22:18:29] The Meta-Wiki link describes the process for requesting the installation of an extension. [22:18:31] So basically if something is a success, it is tossed into a pile and can either be picked up or rot at that point? [22:18:41] Success or not harmful, yeah. [22:18:42] No no [22:18:52] LastModified seems to fall into the latter category. [22:19:04] Ocassi_, yes, LastModified couldl be done as a gadget. [22:19:41] Ocaasi_: Yes, the problem with gadgets is that they don't have global versions. [22:19:53] So they're kind of nightmarish for widescale deployment. [22:19:56] Susan, right. [22:20:06] If we consider an experiment to be a success, we are responsible for moving forward with it. We didn't consider LastModified successful enough to do so, because our job is to doing things that really clearly bring in new editors. If a feature is "nice" but doesn't accomplish that goal, we generally don't spend more time on it except to make sure we clean up after our experiment. [22:20:12] Though that is part of Gadgets 2.0, which Terry and I are interested in pushing forward again. [22:20:15] is to do* [22:20:30] superm401: It's tied fairly closely to global user preferences. [22:20:39] Which also don't exist yet. [22:20:42] Susan, I don't think that's a requirement. [22:20:48] So you do development as well as experiements? [22:20:54] It'd be pretty silly to have one without the other. [22:21:05] It would still be a significant incremental improvement. [22:21:13] anyway, wherever you request it, we'd be happy to add GuidedTour to projects other than Wikipedia, if Tom or anyone else wants [22:21:14] Plus there is other good stuff in Gadgets 2.0. [22:21:30] Right. [22:21:34] And so if something makes users happier without actually directly affecting their engagement by themselves, that's a failure? [22:22:40] It's not enough of a success to necessarily devote more paid staff hours to, testing, refactoring and deploying permanently. [22:23:36] shiny balls are cool and shiny, but we can't spend a bunch of donor money chasing them if we're not solving the editor retention problem :) [22:23:39] But it could? Happier users generally help in general, and little niggling issues can still add up, after all. [22:24:11] Maryana: There's an editor retention problem? [22:25:10] It really has nothing to do with spending donor money. It's just outside this particular team's scope. [22:25:24] Okay. [22:25:51] A long sensuous massage would make me feel better. But this is about editor engagement, darn it! [22:25:52] Is it possible for community members to propose new experiments? [22:26:09] Okay, does anybody else have questions? We're almost half an hour in... [22:26:39] Isarra, yes. [22:27:25] Has everyone tried one or both of the current tours on English Wikipedia? [22:27:53] StevenW: what are currently pie-in-the-sky experiments that are floating around in your heads? [22:27:58] ^ [22:28:02] That was roughly my other question. [22:28:04] I ran into a tour when searching for something unrelated as an IP the other day. [22:28:05] Roadmap, &c. [22:28:07] Goood question. [22:28:20] Isarra, you did? [22:28:30] There shouldn't really be anything linking to them yet. [22:28:36] So probably the biggest pie-in-the-sky engineering project is a recommender system. [22:28:48] superm401: Wasn't linking, just popped up. I'll submit a bug later if I remember. [22:28:49] We have Special:GettingStarted, which we're throwing at all new English Wikipedians [22:29:07] Right now we know it's getting more people to click edit, and save a first edit. [22:29:13] superm401: Also, the implied other part of my question about proposals was how? [22:29:13] But the implementation is hackish. [22:29:32] Is hackish enough to test it? [22:29:36] Yes [22:29:46] Besides here, https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee or Bugzilla. [22:29:56] StevenW: sort of SuggesstBot-on-crack? ;) [22:30:02] Yes, exactly. [22:30:03] It's dependent on SuggestBot, which goes to a cleanup category from Wikipedia:Backlog, does some filtering on articles in that category, and then sticks them in a template [22:30:07] Isarra, we use Trello for some stuff, but currently not everyone can create issues. [22:30:13] SuggestBot has issues. [22:30:31] So use mailing lists or bugzilla to propose experiments? [22:30:34] Susan: feel free to let me know about them, I might be able to help [22:30:39] Isarra, correct. [22:30:41] Or here. [22:30:41] What we really need to do next, other than make that Special page more interesting to look at, is build the logic for gathering tasks and filtering them in to the extension [22:31:19] Nettrom: Is its source code public? [22:31:28] It partially is. [22:31:29] superm401: Looks to be a good way to ensure you don't get any. :P [22:31:38] I think that's the primary issue. [22:31:47] Susan: currently only the parts that run Community Portal/Opentask as well as picking the GettingSTarted articles [22:31:47] Isarra, where would you prefer? [22:31:55] In the long run, we could rework that GettingStarted special page in to something more like a dashboard of todo items of different types, which updates automatically and learns a little bit from the types of articles that people actually click on and edit. [22:32:01] Nettrom: Why not everything? [22:32:03] Susan: we do plan to work on releasing more of the code, probably throughout the year [22:32:09] Ah, okay. [22:32:10] Isarra, I think the mailing list (for bigger ideas) and Bugzilla (for smaller ones) is reasonable. [22:32:10] Good to hear. [22:32:29] superm401: Something on-wiki would be most inviting, but not necessarily worth doing. [22:32:44] Susan: we've still got some Perl-scripts around, I want to have everything in Python, but might start releasing pieces before that [22:32:50] Otherwise it's just... eh, they clearly don't care, whatever. [22:33:02] Nettrom: Even if the code is messy, the sooner the better. :-) [22:33:09] To be fair I'm not sure it'd be worth caring, though. [22:33:16] Susan: good point, I'll keep that in mind :) [22:33:20] just proposed GuidedTour for Wikinews: https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Water_cooler/technical#Should_we_add_GuidedTour.3F [22:33:20] in terms of roadmap, our rough plans for the next few months are at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Editor_engagement_experiments/Quarterly_Planning [22:33:23] Isarra, you can make on-wiki suggestions at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Editor_engagement_experiments [22:33:31] tommorris: \o/ thanks! [22:33:37] Cue Brian McNeil rage in 3... 2... [22:33:50] Would folks check that? [22:34:10] Isarra, yes, you can see StevenW and Maryana check it. [22:34:18] Okay. [22:34:24] Do folks every add anything? [22:34:32] There's a bunch of ideas there from when we first announced the team. [22:34:45] But not a huge amount lately. [22:35:17] Ah. [22:35:19] A lot of the feedback we get tends to be ways to improve current experiments, like removing BLPs from the Special:GettingStarted list or bugs in GuidedTour for Monobook. [22:35:20] Cool. [22:35:54] tommorris, yeah, that's really cool. [22:35:56] Do you do any coding in php? [22:36:03] Isarra, yes [22:36:17] Even though we use a lot of JS, PHP has a key role. [22:36:31] How so? [22:36:41] For instance, we register hooks to conditionally add the GuidedTour output (so we don't bloat the page on regular page views). [22:36:43] why do we need GuidedTour for Monobook? If you are running Monobook, presumably you know enough about the project you are editing that you don't need a guided tour. [22:36:56] seems like a waste of resources fixing that kind of thing [22:37:00] We also use hooks for Special:GettingStarted, and the special page itself requires PHP. [22:37:08] tommorris, we're optimizing mainly for Vector. [22:37:14] The hooks are skin-specific? [22:37:19] Isarra, no. [22:37:31] However, GT positions itself by attaching to page elements. [22:37:33] You can create fake Special pages in JS. [22:37:33] in this case, the bug was in the test tour, which experienced folks do see [22:37:42] Susan, I know, but it's nt as clean. [22:38:05] Susan: Like newpagesfeed? [22:38:06] There's an issue where it goes off screen where it attaches to the search box in Monobook. [22:38:21] Isarra: Sort of. [22:38:42] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44635 [22:38:51] That's the Monobook issue. [22:39:37] Ah. [22:40:48] If people can't find their way back to GS, onboarding basically ends. [22:41:07] GS? [22:41:13] sorry, Getting Started. [22:41:22] Prior to the dashboard, might it be worth putting something on the user's talk page after they make an edit from GettingStarted? "You can return to [[GettingStarted]], there are more fixup tasks at [[Community Portal]], you can look for editing help at the [[TeaHouse]]". [22:41:38] first stab at a fix for that [22:41:43] spagewmf, it is linked from the last step of gettingstarted. [22:41:48] is that ^ [22:41:52] Special:GettingStarted that is. [22:42:41] we don't actually know at this point how many people who complete a getting started edit do want to go back for more, versus those who want something more challenging or just different [22:43:02] It's not an easy balancing act. [22:43:10] protonk! [22:43:13] hi :) [22:43:15] not at all. [22:43:16] Most people don't register to fix other peoples' typos. [22:43:19] From the user tests, it looked like some found the getting started edits to be too hard at times as well. Is that improved now? [22:43:25] hopefully we'll be able to get a better feel for that by measuring how many ppl actually click and go back via the tour [22:43:28] Maryana: Hey! [22:43:28] They register to make an article about their non-notable boy band. [22:43:33] Or whatever. [22:43:43] Susan: Was that why you registered? [22:43:47] Those people probably don't click on getting started tasks [22:43:50] Pretty much. [22:43:52] susan's boy band is totally notable. [22:43:53] Susan, that is covered by the return to button. [22:43:57] Are they sexy? [22:44:02] Which we made more prominent in Special:GettingStarted. [22:44:05] Super-sexy. [22:44:22] superm401: Right. I'm just speaking generally about trying to engage users. [22:44:29] I'm not sure most users want to be engaged. [22:44:42] A few do. [22:44:55] so, any plans for improving the process of adding references? [22:45:00] well how will they figure out how to do stuff Susan if we don't tell them? [22:45:06] tommorris: we should write a tour [22:45:08] So question: If a user immediately dismisses GettingStarted after registering, how easy is it for them to get back to it? [22:45:16] (we are the exceptions of course..) [22:45:19] Thehelpfulone: By figuring it out. [22:45:27] a tour is okay, but making the process itself simpler would be good too... [22:45:29] Thehelpfulone: How many exceptions make a rule? [22:45:30] A tour won't fix a broken process. [22:45:39] D_ not easy at the moment, since they'd have to type Special:GettingStarted, which they probably wouldn't know to do [22:45:47] D_ back button, it's in history, but yeah. [22:45:51] Better than nothing in the meantime, but you need to fix the process. Or someone does. [22:46:15] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:GettingStarted [22:46:17] We figured it out but now I think people are finding it too hard to figure stuff out now.. [22:46:21] I don't know what I'm supposed to do there. [22:46:26] Yes, we are trying to think about ways to give them a clear link back without adding to the clutter of the sidebar or personal tools menu (in the upper right) [22:46:30] Thehelpfulone: What's changed? [22:47:28] Hmmm. [22:47:29] Special:GettingStarted assumes folks know how and what to edit. Do they? [22:47:29] If not user talk page, you could put calls to action in Special:Login if user has few edits. But I think improved notifications will help [22:47:43] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dummies_Theatre&action=history [22:47:49] tommorris, are you familiar with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ProveIt_GT [22:47:54] Susan, we're trying harder to make it easier for people to figure stuff out? [22:48:05] This is something I've worked on, not an E3 project. [22:48:05] It doesn't assume that. I [22:48:08] Thehelpfulone: If you say so. [22:48:28] It kind of assumes that. [22:48:52] It'd be better if it could point out particular issues. [22:48:52] It just does a poor job of enticing people who don't have any clue what to do or how. For now. [22:48:56] Not just say "there might be an issue on this page." [22:49:02] superm401: ProveIt has some issues. it makes the edit page a lot slower to load. ;) [22:49:18] tommorris, it could probably be optimized. [22:49:21] Also, nobody's concerned about ? [22:49:33] That seems to be verging on completely unacceptable territory. [22:49:34] Susan, going to revert one edit. [22:49:34] The basic thing we need to figure out with the landing page design, is do we need to focus on one article and its issues, or try presenting a variety of different things to do [22:49:37] That's a live article. [22:49:52] tommorris, one possibility is integrating into VE in the future. [22:49:54] There are some thoughts about the landing page design at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Onboarding_new_Wikipedians#Landing_page [22:50:01] They have told me they'll let me know when there's an API. [22:50:06] superm401: I think every GS-related edit there is bad. [22:50:11] including mockups of what we're changing it to soon, if anyone has feedback [22:50:22] Susan, it will get fixed. [22:50:26] I wonder what other articles have been hit. :-/ [22:50:28] Will it still be fixed-width and left-aligned? [22:50:34] sbm [22:50:36] A lot of people don't make perfect first edits. I know I didn't. [22:50:37] Why is so much ee and e3 stuff fixed-width and left aligned, anyway? [22:50:55] That's part of why we have the "new editor getting started" tags. [22:51:50] Susan, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dummies_Theatre&diff=533410617&oldid=525063442 is good, maybe others too. [22:52:16] I think that's poor grammar. [22:52:44] Carpetmuncherrug [22:52:46] Classy. [22:52:49] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Channy_Yun&diff=536952606&oldid=530917485 [22:53:40] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ganadhara&diff=536934723&oldid=530176829 [22:53:45] If people want to hang out and inspect the stream of edits at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&tagfilter=gettingstarted+edit all day, I could do that :) [22:54:07] Susan, I will ask that Carpetmuncherrug be indeffed (username block + vandalism). [22:54:13] StevenW: Well, someone should be inspecting it... these users are making a mess of articles. [22:54:37] Not all... https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Philibert_Aspairt&curid=37004776&diff=536953876&oldid=536948845 [22:54:47] We should bear in mind that some of these editors would vandalise either way, and this makes it easier to monitor. [22:54:52] But, are they making more of a mess than new users who haven't gone through GS [22:54:59] i need help [22:55:00] And StevenW is right. There are definitely positive edits. [22:55:14] Because that would be an indication of whether the process helps or harms Wikipedia as whole [22:55:20] help [22:55:25] BTW, there is a dashboard by DarTar that shows the daily number of edits from GettingStarted, mobile, and VisualEditor [22:55:25] http://toolserver.org/~DarTar/rt/ [22:55:28] > [[Mines of Paris underground quarries of Paris]] [22:55:38] esreskkesketske: you should ask in #wikipedia-en-help [22:55:41] D_, yes, it's something we're monitoring. [22:56:05] since its OFFICE channel, how to rotate table 90 degrees in MS office word ? [22:56:17] I lol'd. [22:56:29] esreskkesketske: this is not Microsoft office's channel, we're working on Wikipedia [22:56:38] it looks like you're trying to start a resume... [22:56:43] :) [22:56:45] there is no microsoft office channel [22:56:52] In other news, we're adding Clippy to Wikipedia. [22:56:53] Random thought: Is this channel publicly logged? [22:56:58] yes [22:57:05] during office hours anyway [22:57:07] StevenW: It'd be funnier if I thought you were kidding. [22:57:18] if you write for wikipedia you have to use word editors like office [22:57:34] Sounds about right. [22:57:47] I think this is a sign we should wrap up ;) [22:57:47] esreskkesketske: sorry, this isn't a great time for general questions, please visit #wikipedia-en-help to ask anything about Wikipedia [22:58:15] * tommorris isn't sure if trolling or serious. Either way, it's mildyl amusing. [22:58:41] Actually, VE is using Word is a conceptual model (not in terms of actual code, but goal). [22:59:05] help! im so helpless [22:59:19] Are there any plans to add more guidance to getting started? [22:59:26] Isarra, the actual page? [22:59:39] I think Special:GettingStarted is being kept minimal on purpose. [22:59:41] Once they're on the page linked from that, more. [22:59:42] Depends on what you mean by guidance. [22:59:47] What to... actually do. [23:00:00] Yes. That's why there's a getting started tour being added tomorrow. [23:00:15] you can try it out early by clicking one of those articles and adding ?tour=gettingstarted [23:00:36] Will that help with telling them what to do with the particular article? [23:00:41] be careful though, because forcing the tour means you have to dismiss it or it will appear on every article until you check "end tour" [23:00:42] ?tour=office2010 [23:00:46] Them fixy tags are pretty unhelpful. [23:00:47] :) [23:01:13] I edit via Terminal.app. [23:01:16] Is there a tour for that? [23:01:22] Write one. [23:01:36] * Susan gets Post-Its. [23:01:46] Speaking of writing tours, are the existing tours documented or listed anywhere on enwp? [23:01:56] I've seen the general documentation on the mediawiki wiki only [23:02:11] ok, have to run [23:02:18] nice chatting with y'all [23:02:23] D_, it's at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Guided_tours [23:02:26] Bye. [23:02:30] D_ you want to see the code for the tours on enwiki? [23:02:31] * Isarra hugs Maryana. [23:02:32] We will add more docs once gettingstarted rolls out tomorrow. [23:02:37] find me in #wikimedia-mobile or #wikimedia-e3 [23:02:46] StevenW: That would work, yes [23:02:59] We don't want to copy the code, but we can link to the git repo directly. [23:03:12] * Maryana hugs back :) [23:03:37] been fun hanging with y'all, see you around somewhere [23:04:36] Don't make Help:Guided tours too long yet. [23:04:44] It's embedded into the tour currently (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia?tour=test&step=4 ). [23:04:46] * Susan NP: "If I Had A Hammer" by Peter, Paul and Mary from "Peter, Paul and Mary" [23:04:54] The page that is embedded will be separated out from the main page tomorrow. [23:05:07] Forgive the long link, but D_ they're at https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=mediawiki/extensions/GuidedTour.git;a=tree;f=modules/tours;h=f32be892ee13f641aa0a30bcf1ff7f3be1a87eaa;hb=cc8f8305fcb4e69f92dec5a5f83002f031ff66d8 [23:06:11] okay, I should head out as well. [23:06:16] I apologise for being such a pain in the arse. [23:06:42] Likewise. [23:06:49] * StevenW huggles Isarra [23:06:50] Thanks everyone. It's been great talking to you. [23:06:55] There were some great questions. [23:07:30]