[18:32:26] Someone has already instructed me how to do this, but it slips my mind this morning… can someone change the topic to the URL of the Metrics meeting stream? We're going to start in about a half hour. [18:32:27] http://youtu.be/6tcO6MLvNhY [18:36:16] cndiv, sure, if you click on the topic itself you should be able to edit it then hit return/enter - do you want to try? [18:51:57] just tried, Thehelpfulone, but no results - maybe my client doesn't do that [18:52:07] I'm looking around menus for an option... [18:52:37] cndiv, you can also usually type /topic new topic goes here [18:52:38] nothing obvious, but I'll look later. Thanks [19:01:06] how do i connect to the meeting? [19:01:27] I just wanted to ask if the youtube stream is live yet [19:01:52] zeljkof, it's in the channel topic, but not live yet [19:02:02] yeah, but i should present [19:02:02] Denny_WMDE: YouTube link is http://youtu.be/6tcO6MLvNhY [19:02:05] Denny_WMDE, to watch the youtube stream or do you need a handout link? [19:02:09] hangout [19:02:11] Thehelpfulone: thanks, I did not notice it [19:02:12] Denny_WMDE: Will PM. [19:02:16] thx [19:02:21] zeljkof, no problem :) [19:02:31] James_F: me too please [19:07:20] Lydia_WMDE: Are you sitting with Denny_WMDE or do we need to add you too? Don't want to upset the stream if at all possible! [19:07:35] needs to be invited too [19:07:37] James_F: i am at home - not with denny [19:07:40] not sitting together today , sorry [19:07:45] Argh, OK. [19:08:01] can you turn on the camera from the office? :) [19:08:09] welcome noobs! [19:08:11] I see it now, thanks :) [19:08:32] has the youtube stream been posted here yet? [19:08:40] Eloquence: yes. [19:08:44] kk [19:08:47] Eloquence: it's in the chan topic [19:08:49] http://youtu.be/6tcO6MLvNhY [19:08:55] yep [19:10:11] (BTW, if anyone has questions in here, please ask and I'll try to get them answered.) [19:10:21] you gotta be kidding [19:10:22] Lydia_WMDE: can you show the slides somehow later? [19:10:31] Denny_WMDE: will try [19:10:42] thx [19:11:35] yei wikidata! [19:13:50] Now Wikidata. [19:14:13] \o/ [19:15:02] *clap* *clap* for the wikidata team! [19:15:46] Excellent readability of the slides. [19:16:30] siebrand: +2 agreed [19:16:32] What is a " claim"? [19:16:38] a fact. [19:16:47] I think its something like a reference to a fact [19:16:52] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Glossary [19:16:58] siebrand: A 'statement' (tuple in RDF terms). [19:17:03] Claim is a simplified statement without rank and references, used in non-item data pages. Its like something you say but isn't verifiable by itself. A claim can be a key-value pair (for example, "Location: Germany"), or some other relation or composite or missing value, and often claims can have qualifiers (such as temporal qualifiers). [19:17:05] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Glossary#C [19:17:38] Nischayn22: No, references for facts are different and will be coming later. [19:17:53] Questions? [19:18:00] James_F: I realized that now :) [19:18:20] Erik Moeller calls Wikidata addictive [19:18:22] Nischayn22: Come join in on Wikidata and you'll find out. :-) [19:18:42] does anybody know why wikidata doesnt open in the language of the locale wiki? [19:18:49] Now moving on to E3 by Steven Walling. [19:19:06] Lydia_WMDE: Denny_WMDE ^ TMg's question [19:19:27] Matt Flaschen, lead dev on GuidedTour extension, is here in SF this week [19:19:34] TMg: can you clarify? [19:19:35] TMg: it opens in the language of the editor [19:19:39] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editor_engagement vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editor_engagement_experiments [19:19:48] James_F: I should definitely at least try fixing the bugs with keywords 'volunteer' .. but only if a day had a few more hours [19:19:52] if the user is logged in, it will always use the users language [19:19:57] Nischayn22: Yes! So much to do [19:20:01] Nischayn22: get your friends to help! [19:20:16] wikidata opened without my login in english when i clicked in the german wikipedia. bad. [19:20:44] https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/02/22/onboarding-results/ [19:20:45] sumanah: Believe me I tried, I lured a few upto gerrit accounts even [19:20:55] cool! [19:21:07] hmm. if you have been logged in in the wikipedia, you should have been logged in in wikidata [19:21:20] Denny_WMDE: he was i think but it didn't set the language to german [19:21:23] TMg: Were you logged in when you arrived at Wikidata? [19:21:36] no. tried again. not logged in. [19:21:43] also its bad for IP users. [19:21:45] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Guided_tours [19:21:54] hmm. that is bad. you should stay logged in [19:21:56] TMg: you have a unified login, right? [19:22:00] sure. [19:22:04] TMg: Are you logged in on other non-Wikipedias? There's a reported bug with SUL. [19:22:09] then you should indeed be logged in [19:22:28] dont mind my login. thats the same problem for IP users. [19:22:39] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Guided_tours#Technical_documentation [19:22:57] any questions about Guided Tours/Getting Started? [19:23:26] guided tours: designed/tested for which browsers? [19:23:27] TMg: Yes, ULS doesn't work for anonymous users at all yet; the WMF Language Engineering team are working on it. Sorry. [19:23:35] TMg: Will ask. [19:24:01] TMg: it is tested with IE6-9, chrome and firefox, as far as I know [19:24:04] ~200 new en.wp people saving first edit every month [19:24:10] I just clicked somewhere and Youtube started streaming right from the beginning :( [19:24:11] Aha. No need. [19:24:25] Nischayn22: What happens if you re-load? [19:24:44] TMg was there a specific browser you are concerned about? [19:24:49] James_F: good idea, let me try [19:24:50] opera ;) [19:24:54] Questions for Steven Walling & Matt Flaschen? [19:25:09] all the webkit browsers. they are different. [19:25:28] James_F: worked, thanks! [19:25:28] TMg: Asked. Happy with your answer? [19:25:31] * Aaron|home uses opera and is not ashamed [19:25:31] TMg: opera users unite! [19:25:38] Browser testing is something we do for every release [19:25:41] ok, thanks. :) [19:25:44] Opera 11.6 and up [19:25:52] we care about everything with 1% or better market share, Steven says [19:25:53] Now Brandon Harris talking about E2. [19:26:06] I remember PageTriage doesn't support IEs :( [19:26:13] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flow-Slides-WMF_MetricsMeeting_03.13.pdf [19:26:19] not that I like IEs :p [19:26:40] Nischayn22: this is one reason we try to do automated browser testing https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Browser_testing/community_automated_browser_testing [19:26:54] Nischayn22: have you put a bug in bugzilla [19:26:55] I mean https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/QA/Browser_testing [19:27:07] "everything that has a workflow will flow into Flow" [19:27:17] *start* with user-to-user discussions, deep community engagement [19:27:27] Isarra: ping, you can probably help answer questions in IRC in this section :-) [19:27:41] LeslieCarr: There is one already, but I don't think its just a bug, its designed that way itself (to not support IE). [19:28:13] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Flow [19:28:53] Not a very accessible sheet. [19:28:54] user-to-user communication is "simple" whereas Arbcom stuff, you can't reply in the same place as the person you're replying to [19:29:15] siebrand: You mean the slide? [19:29:23] "the big power is going to be tagging" [19:29:25] * siebrand nods at James_F [19:29:26] "it's all about volume." [19:29:33] Flow will be "faster than a Facebook feed" [19:29:50] handle multiple-watchlist kind of things [19:29:58] siebrand: In what way, so we can fix it? The font is larger than Lydia_WMDE's great slides... :-) [19:30:12] ASB, GEF, TED [19:30:32] subscribe to Wikiprojects, etc., to get notifications in your flowboard [19:30:32] !votes [19:30:34] wut? [19:30:51] yeah sumanah thats awesome [19:30:53] siebrand: The point of the slide is talking about our wikis' complexity. [19:31:04] the big problem with any one of our projects, designing at scale - we have 380 wikis in 200+ languages. blocking on en.wp is different from fr., ru., etc. so we cannot write workflow in software [19:31:11] have to give wikis ability to write their own workflow [19:31:19] give them a scripting lang so they can build process modules [19:31:22] I presume !votes means Brandon does not expect flow to be used for voting [19:31:23] James_F: Okay. I just wanted to let you know that you lost me there. If that was your goal, the you reached it. [19:31:48] idea: press a button to fill out & request something, like unblock requests [19:31:48] siebrand: Not my slides. :-) [19:32:13] the value from talkpages' flexibility is workarounds for "how crappy they are" [19:32:24] James_F: You're confusing me. You just wrote "In what way, so we can fix it?", right? [19:32:28] LeslieCarr: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43598#c1 [19:32:36] Questions for Brandon? [19:32:46] Flow could be used in the future for voting, not in the immediate future, but in the long run [19:33:12] siebrand: It was more a suggestion that I/you edit the page on meta wiki advising how to make slides that people can make them better. [19:33:13] how do we consult the people who don't use Wikipedia yet because the UI is too awful [19:33:14] so its NOT about replacing all of the discussion pages?? [19:33:46] will we involve focus groups that include non-Wikipedians? yes [19:33:59] TMg: It is, but not in one go. [19:34:09] we did a bunch of user tests & recorded them, done & put together by Isarra (Brandon shouts out to her) [19:34:16] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Flow/User_tests [19:34:23] they are eye-opening [19:35:00] Any further questions for Brandon? [19:35:02] look on mediawiki.org for Flow portal, research [19:35:19] timeline [19:35:20] will it still be wikitext under the hood? so i can turn it of when i'm an experienced user and continue editing my discussion page as wikitext? [19:35:47] TMg: Flow and VisualEditor are separate things. [19:35:50] at least the next month - doing communications. conversations. near-immediate future, portals for community engagement. [19:35:59] then steal time from Teahouse users to find out how they succeeeded [19:36:04] James_F: that wasnt the question. [19:36:15] then .... pretty much to go into rapid iterations on disposable prototype software so people can experience it [19:36:20] team: some of the same devs as Echo [19:36:37] TMg: Flow isn't replacing wikitext. [19:36:50] Now: Dario and Ryan talking about user metrics. [19:36:50] User metrics API launch - Dario! [19:36:53] and Ryan! [19:37:10] How many people love talk pages? There must be at least some who like that there is a barrier against newbies who are not willing to put in an effort to learn the culture [19:37:26] jorm: ^ lwelling2's question [19:37:29] i love the barrier. thats for sure. [19:37:50] ;) [19:37:53] slides re user metrics https://docs.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/presentation/d/12HWRzf8XHsWC9zE3onyi6eeA_J98bPxoknLY_be-vUc/edit#slide=id.p [19:38:38] there's a handful of people who think that. [19:39:01] COHORT ANALYSIS whooooooo [19:39:20] You will NOT be able to edit your discussion page as wikitext. No. [19:39:56] ok, thanks. maybe thats not a problem. i create subpages then. can live with that. [19:39:57] Is there any insight in the number of watchers of the youtube stream? [19:40:04] cndiv: ^ [19:40:23] 34 now, 36 max [19:40:40] more than last time, I think [19:40:52] yes, 36 is the new record I believe [19:41:09] https://github.com/wikimedia/user_metrics [19:41:13] 37! [19:41:18] announce it more in the wikipedias. its great. [19:41:53] FWIW jorm, I'm completely sold. I'm just curious how controversial it is going to be. There must be some people who think "You can pry it from my cold dead hands. If you make discussion easy it will degenerate into youtube comments". I just don't have a feel for if it is 3 guys in cabins in the woods or if it is 50% of active users. [19:42:20] Later today http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/EventLogging/Workshop [19:42:50] That's one of the points of having the big conversations, luke. So that we get a better idea of that. [19:42:55] anyone got a link for the page Ryan is interacting with? [19:42:58] lwelling2: thats exactly what currently happens with teh article feedback. i think the barrier is to low. [19:43:18] sumanah: it's not a public tool yet [19:43:21] oh "it's an endpoint that's used for the demo only" [19:43:23] sumanah: It's not public yet. [19:43:35] I shouted in 3 different Facebook channels, and on identi.ca (dead?) and twitter. But I only have 500 or so followers. We need Jimmy to tweet. [19:44:27] we see the parameters a request is dependent on -- t = time after reg (here 24) [19:44:34] short note in [[:de:WP:Kurier]] for example. [19:44:35] n = 1 within 24 hours of reg [19:44:59] you can set the parameters in the URL! [19:45:15] like, t=10000 for 10,000 hours post-registration [19:45:26] TMg: The link is in the Wikipedia Signpost quite often - why not put it in the Kurier too? [19:45:31] so now, instead of 0 for 2 of the members and 1 for 1 of them, now it's 1 for all 3 [19:45:42] (that is, yes, they've all edited) [19:46:19] all those horror movies seem years in the past but now it seems JSON is everywhere [19:46:38] ^that was my commentary [19:46:44] JSON is the shit. [19:47:03] i'm sure you can choose XML like in every api. [19:47:11] I don't think so. [19:47:21] You don't have to love JSON much to prefer it to XML [19:47:44] we will announce soon a permanent home for this tool! [19:47:47] Indeed. [19:47:59] e3 experiments, supporting data analysis, grants stuff [19:48:07] data from outreach events! [19:48:33] if a group from India does an outreach events aims on getting people together to train newbies to edit Wikipedia, they can create a list of UserIDs and feed it into the tool to get the results of whether their work worked! [19:48:57] how long did it take for us to run these metrics on a cohort before this API? [19:48:59] days, weeks! [19:49:03] depending on complexity of project [19:49:07] I'd always prefer JSON+REST to XML+SOAP, but then I'd prefer eating my own eyes with a blunt spoon to XML+SOAP so that's not significant [19:49:28] this is a gamechanger for grants & potentially for Engineering Community as well [19:49:33] Now Siko talking about the IEG. [19:49:39] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG [19:49:43] hangout is coming back [19:49:46] Chip is working on it [19:49:57] there is traffic noise outside [19:50:04] and we're coming back [19:50:10] hangout is back [19:50:15] youtube is too [19:50:22] great! [19:50:54] IEG is currently in the Committee review period: 22 Feb ‑ 10 Mar. [19:51:06] sorry viewers, no idea what happened there. [19:51:09] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG#ieg-committee [19:51:11] 39 now though! [19:51:27] d'oh "The hangout ended because of a server error [19:51:27] thank you to the 18 community members in the committee [19:51:27] " [19:51:39] slides https://docs.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/presentation/d/1v5nYEr2QwviH3sNYr74pFmzD1tB1HY6MsGqqdYvmJb0/edit#slide=id.gb0b39017_010 [19:51:39] brion: Fixed now? [19:51:45] yeah i'm back in [19:51:51] 22 eligible proposals [19:52:28] round 2 schedule: Proposals accepted: 1 Aug ‑ 30 Sept. [19:52:51] IEG budget for pilot round: 7 grants or 100,000 USD -- whatever comes first [19:52:58] Grantees announced: 29 Mar [19:53:24] Now Katie Love talking about the FDC. [19:53:24] https://docs.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/presentation/d/1cG-dHKgj3XUl-lFiMO0UkDlL5L8gSfqyjo1Nv868AMw/edit#slide=id.p Katy Love giving Funds Dissemination Committee update [19:54:01] WMF is now multi-Katie/Katy enabled, with Katie Horn + Katy Love :) [19:54:15] Argh, yes, sorry, Katy Love not Katie. [19:54:29] sumanah: Kat{ie,y} :-) [19:54:47] hee! [19:54:59] for Round 2 we had 2.6 million USD available [19:55:21] we got 4 funding requests ranging in size from 14,000 to 211,000 [19:55:29] total requests were for 1.2 million USD [19:55:42] 41 viewers [19:55:50] * effeietsanders knows a good goal for the remainder (A) [19:55:54] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_and_Funds_Dissemination - please read proposals by March 31st to give feedback during March! [19:56:16] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FDC_portal [19:56:26] any questions? [19:56:52] Sue asks: Czech republic requesting $14K? I thought there was a $50K floor for this process. [19:57:07] Asaf: We thought about that floor, discussed it, but right now there is no floor. [19:57:08] here is the invitation to the fdc community review period http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaannounce-l/2013-March/000602.html [19:57:21] FDC funds are for annual plans [19:57:22] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Start [19:57:22] Sounds like there's some feedback loop. [19:57:44] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Education_Program_extension_Feb_2013_metrics_meeting_slides.pdf [19:57:49] Education Program - Sage Ross- use of the new software extension slides [19:57:55] Now Sage talking about the Education Programme. [19:57:58] I mean, Education Program - Sage Ross- use of the new software extension [19:58:04] re https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Education_Program [19:58:47] Facilitates educational programs by adding various interfaces to manage courses, students, institutions, mentors, ect, as well as improving workflow for everyone involved (enrollment, seeing changes of other students, article and reviewer association) and providing several analysis/statistics interfaces. It was developed for the Wikipedia Education Program but is generic enough to be used by similar programs. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/W [19:58:47] ikipedia_Education_Program [19:58:59] Jeroen De Dauw is the main author [19:59:17] launched originally in mid-2012, using the Course: namespace -- this conflicted with the "Course: Oblivion" page [19:59:26] so now we use "Education Program" launched in late 2012 [19:59:48] screenshots in the slides https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Education_Program_extension_Feb_2013_metrics_meeting_slides.pdf [19:59:59] lol @ namespace conflict from star trek [20:00:03] YES [20:00:27] btw is my transcripty notetaking in this channel helpful to people? [20:00:31] mooger: It was unfortunate that it happened. [20:00:52] configuration on en.wp - you need the course instructor user right to set it up, so we have a request process for that [20:00:58] sumanah: I worry that it drowns out peoples' questions a bit, but then, I'm here in person. :-) [20:01:10] community can decide whether it makes sense to support the course or not [20:01:21] Danny_B: found my problem. "accept cookies only from this website." but even with that i think wikidata must open in the users language. [20:01:48] 11th grade CS class in Somalia is participating! [20:02:05] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Training/For_students [20:02:07] James_F: Sage just manages to tackle all my questions before I get to ask them... [20:02:15] not sumana's fault [20:02:16] effeietsanders: Isn't he great? :-) [20:02:27] effeietsanders: I'm feeling quite useless. [20:02:29] we want to get training & extension translated & deployed for more languages! [20:02:30] Any questions? [20:02:33] wrong user? where is denny, Lydia_WMDE? [20:02:46] how long will it continue? [20:02:53] TMg: i think he dropped out - will let him know [20:02:55] * effeietsanders makes james useful [20:03:09] the program [20:03:19] effeietsanders: And then sumanah steals my job! :-( [20:03:25] we are one of the only websites on the planet that has structural support for getting students involved, says Erik [20:03:25] muhaha [20:04:11] Now Q&A with sgardner. [20:04:12] James_F: wanna steal my job by summarizing what Sage just said? [20:04:28] * effeietsanders imagines James and Sumana rolling and fighting on the floor [20:04:34] pizza? [20:04:34] * Aaron|home should walk to the office maybe [20:04:42] Any questions for Sue? [20:04:43] I am hungry :( [20:04:43] does anyone have a question on IRC for Sue? [20:04:50] * effeietsanders wants also pizza for irc-participants! [20:04:52] effeietsanders: No fighting, please. :-) [20:05:03] * Deskana is happy about the pizza. [20:05:11] OK, that's it. [20:05:13] Thanks everyone. [20:05:25] can we get a 360 view? [20:05:30] look around the room [20:05:32] Yes. Needs pizza transmission. [20:05:38] darn, too late [20:05:51] thanks chip! [20:05:51] sumanah: Huh? [20:06:00] coren: yeah, so sad... [20:06:05] James_F|Away: I challenge you to a duel of, like, mission achievement, or something [20:06:14] Isarra: Hi! What was it I said that made you say "huh"? [20:06:24] Apparently you were pinging me. [20:07:01] Lydia_WMDE: still here? [20:07:07] TMg: yes [20:07:41] now one thing happens i was afraid off. some user waht to kill all interwiki links within minutes. [20:07:48] " we did a bunch of user tests & recorded them, done & put together by Isarra (Brandon shouts out to her)" and " Isarra: ping, you can probably help answer questions in IRC in this section :-)" [20:08:11] so, that's what I said. Are you still confused about why I mentioned your name and pinged you, when Brandon was talking about Flow? [20:08:20] there is no open tech chat today, right? [20:08:26] Lydia_WMDE: i dont think this was supposed to happen. or was it? [20:08:38] sumanah: Naw, that makes sense, sorry. I was just unfortunately off frying onions at the time. [20:08:40] TMg: there is not much we can do about it really one way or another :) [20:08:59] I didn't realise I'd be at all relevant to this meeting. [20:08:59] i know. just ask for the opinion of the wikidata team. [20:09:05] OK. [20:09:14] wikidata team does not mind one way or the other really [20:09:42] it'll sort itself out in a few days i am sure [20:10:05] it's shiny and new right now so people are understandably excited and want to try [20:10:26] ok. so i will continue to be the bad guy and slow things down a little bit. ;) [20:10:32] lol [20:10:33] ok [20:11:01] ... to calm down. you know i love wikidata. [20:11:05] :) [20:11:07] i do! [20:11:21] lunchtime. bye all