[15:50:02] I'm usually never able to attend these meetings due to work, but i'm sick today. :) [15:51:50] * tommorris wonders what is on today. [15:51:52] Bug triage! [15:52:11] Is it today? I thought it was Tuesday :D [15:52:25] kudos to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Invitation_to_today.27s_bugday_.2816:00_-_20:00UTC.29_about_old_bug_reports [15:53:55] Yes yes, bugday! Here! Soon! [15:54:05] * andre__ gets a coffee [15:57:51] @Maggie_Dennis — gettin' official are we? [15:58:09] Yup. :) I'm on the work prowl. :D [16:02:25] So, welcome to the bugday everybody! [16:02:51] Today is old bug reports triage here! Everybody is free to join and help cleaning up and retesting bug reports. See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Triage/20130415 for more info [16:03:07] The goal is to triage some bug reports together in the next hours, be talkative and verbose in what we're doing, so it's transparent and people can learn from each other. [16:03:15] Info is at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Triage/20130415 and we document our progress in http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/pad/p/BugTriage [16:03:26] and that Etherpad also has a link to the open bug reports [16:03:36] * marktraceur highlights the "labs" part of that URL [16:03:45] hehe [16:04:07] Everybody can pick her/his favorite ticket, take a look, try to understand and check it there is still enough info or try to reproduce. That's the triage part and that is explained in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/How_to_triage [16:04:31] and when unsure, we discuss here on IRC [16:04:36] that's it basically :) [16:04:46] Sounds good :D [16:04:58] (I haven't managed yet today to provide a list of good bug reports to start with on the Etherpad file, for bugtriage newbies. I'm sorry for that. :-( [16:05:10] well, there's one... ;) [16:05:30] Theopolisme, heh, I just added that, but my definition of "list" does not yet apply to that [16:06:15] do we need to log it in the etherpad when we initially look at it, or only once we've finished triaging? [16:07:42] Theopolisme: I'd say after finishing (whatever you found out that's worth to share). We might have mid-term collisions, but I consider that unlikely [16:07:57] and while looking at it, I'd discuss anything discussworthy in this IRC channel [16:08:03] given the list size, yeah. [16:08:15] to me the list feels rather short, to be honest :D [16:08:24] heh [16:08:32] * andre__ waves at valeriej [16:09:05] * valeriej waves at andre__ :D [16:09:23] hi valeriej, great to see you! How's life? :) [16:10:38] andre__: Life's good! How are you? [16:11:48] valeriej, also pretty good here, though busy times :) [16:12:49] (the problem with coming up with a list of bug reports that are easy to start with is that I'm always tempted to directly triage them myself) [16:14:28] hehe [16:15:53] Okay, just did https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19478 — what do i do now? [16:17:15] Theopolisme: You can record what you did on the Etherpad. Paste the link of the bug report, and below it record the action you took. [16:17:34] Does the bug itself need to be closed or anything? [16:17:47] Theopolisme: Nope. [16:18:39] Theopolisme: You can record that you left a comment that you could not reproduce and the steps you took. [16:20:32] Theopolisme: The original commenter may come back and try to retest it or provide more information, but if after a few weeks there is no response the bug report will likely be closed as WORKSFORME. [16:21:02] Great [16:21:08] * Platonides finds unliklely that a 2009 gets a promptly reply... [16:21:54] yeah [16:24:39] Platonides: Yeah, I agree. If the report is closed, at least it can be reopened. [16:25:33] Theopolisme: oh whou your comment looks good (showing the steps you took to reproduce etc.) [16:26:03] I think I'll also add the "testme" keyword to that one [16:27:29] what's the significance of that keyword? [16:27:47] (still new to bugzillaing and all that ilk...i'm stuck in the days of github ;) ) [16:27:54] and its "issue tracker" [16:28:31] Theopolisme, the list of keywords is at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/describekeywords.cgi [16:28:40] testme says "This bug needs to be re-confirmed to check if it is still present in the latest alpha version of MediaWiki." [16:28:55] ...which is what you did though, but I won't mind another comment :) [16:29:28] but I also added a whiteboard entry for myself, as a reminder to close the ticket in a few weeks if there's no comment by the reporter [16:29:32] as you couldn't reproduce it. [16:39:57] * andre__ sets https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28823 to low priority and enhancement - still valid, but that extension is way less used nowadays [16:45:38] Hi vivekrai! Are you here for the bugday, or just lurking? [16:45:54] Bugday [16:46:32] vivekrai, oh great, welcome! :) [16:47:00] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Triage/20130415 has more information, and http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/pad/p/BugTriage has the list of bug reports [16:47:10] vivekrai, have you triaged bug reports before? [16:47:23] Nope. I will explain my situation. [16:47:59] Actually, I could make out how shall I proceed .. on fixing bugs.. [16:48:07] and how to contribute to the project.. [16:48:54] vivekrai, for a high level overview, I'd recommend http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_contribute [16:49:25] what we're doing here today is part of Testing / bug management, but there are many ways to contribute [16:50:10] Nice. Please let me know as much as you can. [16:51:14] The ideal way .. so that I learn as much as I can without losing my interest into the project. [16:51:35] vivekrai: if you are after *fixing* bugs (which means: writing code), I'd recommend to take a look at those open reports with "easy" keyword [16:51:54] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?keywords=easy&keywords_type=allwords&resolution=---&product=MediaWiki [16:51:58] Yeah. I will prefer writing codes part. [16:52:10] and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_access which you will need to write patches [16:52:47] The bugday which takes place in this channel here is more about "managing" the existing bug reports in the bug database (Bugzilla), not about actually fixing them or writing code (though that's of course always welcome) [16:52:55] I looked at the bugzilla, but I could figure out much of the things.. as how they are operating.. [16:53:38] vivekrai, if you have specific questions, please don't hesitate to ask! [16:54:31] I need a small start at first.. into this coding part [16:54:45] That obviously goes by understanding the API and trying to fix the bugs [16:55:27] That would give me an insight of how things work.. and then I may come up with enhancements or features for the project [16:55:56] vivekrai, you don't need to understand much at the beginning. Pick an easy bug that involves fixing only a few lines [16:56:18] ...to get an impression. You don't really need to understand the API *first* :) [16:56:42] Yeah.. Other wise currently it is like a huge mountain of code in front of me. [16:57:42] vivekrai, pick a small task, and ignore the rest. You learn as you move forward. It's normal. [16:57:49] * andre__ triages https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30704 as part of the bugday [16:59:04] Meh, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30704 misses its testcase now [16:59:38] I'm adding "Blocks: 745" to that bug report, as it's an RTL issue [16:59:59] Ok. After seeing a relevant bug, which might be fixed by me.. [17:00:05] How shall I proceed. [17:00:32] vivekrai, check out the codebase: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Git/Tutorial [17:00:59] vivekrai, then try to fix the issue and test it. Create a diff and put it into Gerrit: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Developer_access [17:01:13] for testing, I recommend an instance in Labs, or running MediaWiki locally on your machine. [17:01:35] (Somebody here in the room please correct me with these instructions if I'm wrong. I'm not a developer.) [17:02:36] Now seems more clear. [17:03:24] * andre__ tries to understand https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30838 as part of the bugday [17:05:49] andre__ as in the second link that you have posted as a bug.. [17:06:16] I could see no information as to where is that bug supposed to be found. [17:06:25] andre__: I think the problem is that a fully protected page isn't actually fully protected if non-admins can edit the a template used by the page, even if they can't edit the page itself? [17:10:24] valeriej, I think I'm confused by the term "semicascade" [17:12:20] andre__: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:CASCADE#Cascading_protection Maybe this will help? I'm reading it now. [17:13:17] valeriej, oh thanks. that's.... complex. [17:13:47] andre__: Yeah. [17:15:56] I think I'll just ask what "semicascade" means. I understand "semiprotect" now, but the term "semicascade" in that bug report confuses me. [17:17:08] ah. I think it's a feature request. [17:17:12] that would explain that comment. [17:17:33] andre__: Oh! Yeah, I can see that. [17:18:32] though I wonder if that's not a dup of https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14358 [17:20:19] * andre__ adds a comment with that question [17:20:21] to https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30838 [17:20:58] ...plus I set severity to "enhancement" as this seems to be a feature request, after reading it four times :) [17:21:47] andre__: Yeah, I think it may be a dup. [17:23:14] Theopolisme: thanks for testing that cookie bug! Might also make sense to ask Mark if he recently faced that problem again [17:25:21] Good point [17:43:08] * andre__ takes a look at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25083 [17:45:32] hmm, for https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23123 I'll ask the reporter to retest [17:47:36] jwild: ping [17:47:53] hi pine [17:48:02] Ready to go in 12 min? :) [17:48:10] And will someone be moderating or logging? [17:49:09] I am ready whenever! As I mentioned in my email, I'm just open for any questions people might have! [17:49:43] I don't have anyone lined up to be moderating/logging … not sure if it's necessary for this, but i'm happy to have it happen. [17:51:03] ok, I'd prefer that someone at WMF do the public logging but if we don't have a logger that's ok [17:51:11] see you soon, I'll post a reminder to WM-L [17:54:35] -log on [17:54:43] it doesn't work here :D [17:55:47] Ocastro, oi chefinha [17:55:58] everton137, errm? [17:56:07] I don't see this listed on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours ? [17:56:39] or better Philippe: ^^ Re: IRC Topic Change [17:56:42] andre__: I forgot to add it to Meta. [17:56:42] also FYI everton137 http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikimedia-office/ this channel is logged [17:56:44] It was just sent to Wikimedia-l :) [17:57:05] Philippe / Pine, yeah, and it collides with my office session here :) [17:57:05] Thehelpfulone, thanks, I didn't know. [17:57:34] could you use a different channel? [17:57:38] rut-roh [17:57:43] Oh, for bug reports? [17:57:45] Pine, that's all you. I'm just an observer. [17:57:50] Heh, we can move, that's fine [17:57:58] let's see, just a minute [17:58:06] yeah, sure [17:58:16] haha I'm fine with whatever channel! sorry, andre_ [17:58:21] haha, we need begin to have a calendar of this channel [17:58:28] I mean, I wouldn't have an issue to share the room too (bugdays are not that noisy), but it might be confusing :) [17:58:42] everton137, we do: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#Upcoming_office_hours ;) [17:58:45] plus it's running for two hours already and has two more hours [17:58:55] Pine if you pick a place, I'll put up a topic telling people where to go. [17:58:56] * everton137 feeling as a noob [17:59:01] OK, let's move the learning and evaluation stuff to #wikimedia-office-learningeval [17:59:20] Sorry about the collision [17:59:32] I'll send another email to the list [18:00:34] thanks, pine [18:01:22] thanks! appreciated & sorry for the trouble [18:02:04] I can reproduce https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25083 [18:02:08] adding a comment about it [18:02:21] Hello Bug Squad :) [18:02:22] Note: Jessie Wild office hours in #wikimedia-office-learningeval [18:02:24] hi odder! [18:03:33] odder, how can I help you? :) [18:04:15] Bugday info is at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bug_management/Triage/20130415 [18:04:16] * odder is reading the triage page on MediaWiki wiki... [18:04:21] :) [18:04:29] and our Etherpad where we track progress is at http://etherpad.wmflabs.org/pad/p/BugTriage [18:04:36] there's also the list of reports [18:04:59] thanks [18:05:03] odder, heh, I somehow expected you to know triaging very well already. Guess I've seen your name too often around :) [18:06:11] andre__: errm, I actually read that page already; I am going through the bug list now :) [18:07:16] odder: There is a list of good bugs for new triagers on the etherpad, as well. [18:07:18] yay :) [18:08:47] andre__: I have to go for now. I'll be back, but probably after the bug day. I'll be sure to triage more reports this week, though. :) [18:09:06] valeriej, yay, thanks! see you around! [18:10:10] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14467 hmm [18:11:49] odder, hmm, those extensions that are not deployed on WMF servers, I always wonder where to test them [18:12:57] odder, looking at the list of open tickets for that component, they are all very old: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?resolution=---&component=Patroller&product=MediaWiki extensions [18:13:03] maybe that extension is dead anyway [18:13:18] next: looking at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Patroller [18:13:45] oh yeah, nothing in Git: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/q/project:mediawiki/extensions/Patroller [18:13:51] so still in SVN [18:14:49] so what would you do? just close them? [18:15:30] <^demon> andre__: If someone cares to take over maintenance, we can always migrate them from svn. [18:15:33] <^demon> Just saying :) [18:16:47] ^demon, yeah, but last change to a bug report four years ago? Hmm. [18:17:31] <^demon> Yeah, if it's abandoned, it's abandoned. [18:17:38] <^demon> Just saying moving to git is NBD. [18:17:42] yeah :) [18:20:06] ^demon: not sure this is even needed anymore; we use http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgUseRCPatrol now [18:20:59] odder: I'd add a comment to all open three tickets which says that the extension is very likely unmaintained and abandoned, that no fixes should be expected, and that the bug reports will likely end up as a WONTFIX, and set them to lowest priority [18:21:21] will do then [18:22:25] Once the SVN server will be killed, I plan to also close all open tickets in Bugzilla of extensions only in SVN as WONTFIX with a specific tag ("unmaintained" or so) [18:22:35] likely later this year, if I understand plans correctly [18:27:22] Theopolisme: oh, when asking a reporter to retest something or whether it still happens, I'd recommend to mention the reporter's name even - quite often people don't remember their "role" for a bug report (e.g. they could have CC'ed themselves) and don't think they were asked [18:27:36] (I just saw bug 30167 in my bugmail) [18:27:47] Again, good point [18:28:00] hmm. maybe that should be added in the triage guide somewhere. [18:41:21] * andre__ checks https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28986 [18:41:55] hi eyoung! Here for the bugday, or just lurking? [18:44:20] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23388 [18:44:37] dunno about this one [18:45:03] as far as I checked, that's just because https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Hatnote&action=edit has a
inside it. [18:45:50] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28986 seems to be still valid, after looking at the code [18:47:25] odder, oh nice. worth to add that as a comment. [18:48:17] odder, so might be even invalid if it only happens because of that? [18:49:16] Yes, I believe that's the only reason. [18:50:34] then I'd close it as RESOLVED INVALID, explain why, and ask the reporter to reopen if s/he thinks that you're wrong [19:06:38] hmm, I wonder if the installer issue in https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30298 is still a problem [19:06:46] * andre__ checking the current strings [19:16:15] btw heads up http://twitter.com/BostonGlobe/status/323873235949207552 [19:17:54] protonk, okay, but how is this related to this channel? [19:18:14] just the wp channel I had open, sorry. [19:18:18] ah. heh. [19:29:42] * andre__ adds a comment to https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30298 asking if the current string is sufficient [19:38:03] hmm, I fail to see any checkboxes on LQT pages, so I asked on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=30870 for clarification [19:38:12] Anybody else here for the bugday by the way who sneaked in? :) [19:51:16] * andre__ looks at https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28284 as the last bug for this bugday [19:54:20] hmm, wondering if https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32900 is a dup of that one [20:01:33] Alright, thanks everybody for joining this bug day! We'll continue to triage older tickets a bit for the rest of the week, and the next bugday will be in two weeks. See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/QA/Weekly_goals for more info! [20:01:41] See you! :)