[17:51:11] Welcome, one and all, to the fabulous metrics meeting IRC coverage [17:51:48] James_F|Away: Have you usurped my position as IRC host!? [17:52:02] * bd808 grabs popcorn and milk duds [17:53:55] marktraceur: Ha. Apparently. [17:54:16] Damn it James [17:55:11] Edit conflict, no notification :) [17:55:28] youtubededed [17:56:29] marktraceur: I'm glad to offer you, for next time, an interrobang: ‽ [17:56:50] guillom: I was actually wondering why I don't have that as an autocorrection [17:56:54] best punctuation ever [17:56:55] :D [17:57:25] * guillom <3 the interrobang. [17:57:39] I rarely use it, but I love it :) [17:57:44] OK, did that work!? [17:57:46] Nope. [17:57:54] Oh, it has to be its own word. [17:57:55] ‽ [17:57:57] Bettar. [17:58:09] We'll be starting soon. [17:58:27] closely followed by the ⸮ (sometimes called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_mark [17:58:46] Agenda at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metrics_and_activities_meetings/2013-09-05 [17:59:53] * greg-g waves [18:00:04] Ohai greg-g [18:00:36] Of course the irony point would have to have been created by the French. Why am I not surprised⸮ [18:00:46] :) [18:02:21] Filling up here in the office; probably going to start in a couple of minutes. [18:02:40] That's what you said 4 mins ago :) [18:02:53] siebrand: Patience, grasshopper [18:02:53] siebrand: No, I said "soon". ;-) [18:03:19] He's a dirty liar, Siebrand. Cna't trust a word he says. :-) [18:03:23] so soon > couple [18:03:36] * siebrand mumbles something. [18:05:54] people are gathering, about to get started :) [18:06:21] See? Soon > couple of minutes > about. :-) [18:06:27] immiment? [18:06:36] momentarily [18:06:39] siebrand: Yes. [18:06:40] This room needs a better color announcer. What are they wearing? Is there tension in the air? [18:06:40] impending [18:06:53] bd808: Crowd of folks, excitedly chatting. [18:06:55] "within a fortnight from now" [18:07:08] Starting like now ish [18:07:09] Stream starting soon. [18:07:15] (As in now.) [18:07:29] Welcomes from Gayle at first. [18:07:57] 4 new staff, 3 of the present. [18:08:18] All three interns present. :-) [18:08:20] youtube not running? [18:08:22] anybody having stream yet? [18:08:25] * bd808 has stream [18:08:29] Huzzah sucheta and kart_! [18:08:29] just now [18:08:30] had to reload [18:08:34] * marcoil got it right now [18:08:36] stream started. [18:08:37] Now switching to Erik about core Metrics. [18:08:38] reloadededed [18:08:54] James_F: I still hearing/seeing new hires [18:09:09] greg-g: There's about a fifteen second lag [18:09:11] now switched [18:09:13] * greg-g nods [18:09:39] more like 50 secs I think... [18:09:51] can we get the "related videos" section fixed, I'm seeing "Did Justin Beiber use the n-word?!" from tmz :/ [18:10:03] greg-g: Yeah, it's normally 10 seconds behind but it seems to be ~ 60 now. [18:10:14] Seriously! Makes me wonder what the other staff are watching during their days... [18:10:19] greg-g: same here, along with "Scary Raptor Prank" :) [18:10:45] XKCD taught me that "scary raptor" is a tautology. [18:10:46] Who's staffing questions from IRC? JamesF? [18:10:56] not it. [18:11:02] sgardner: yes. [18:11:02] LOL [18:11:08] :) [18:11:08] James_F: [18:11:16] sgardner: can I make a request? [18:11:19] sgardner: Yes, me. [18:11:24] could you have a shout-out for ragesoss? It's his birthday. [18:11:31] Ha. [18:11:32] I do this because I love. Mortifying people. [18:11:33] Ironholds: Cruel. [18:11:43] yay, happy birthday ragesoss ! [18:11:45] (more seriously, happy birthday Sage :)) [18:11:49] K thanks. I guess we will need to build in some extra time to gather the IRC questions because of the lag, huh? And yes Ironholds we can do that :-) [18:11:50] James_F: not everyone here is British. [18:11:50] Happy Birthday, ragesoss. :-) [18:11:51] :) [18:11:58] thanks! [18:11:58] Happy birthday ragesoss :-) [18:12:06] Happy Birthday :-) [18:12:18] *ragesoss [18:12:22] (Lots of praise right now from Erik about Wiki Loves Monuments.) [18:13:09] Any questions about WLM? [18:13:25] Moving on. [18:13:25] Next up: E3 demo from Steven Wallking. [18:13:36] Steven, King of Walls. [18:13:49] :) [18:13:51] hah [18:13:59] Bah. [18:14:04] Happy birthday, Sage! :) [18:14:14] So maybe if people know they're gonna have questions about E3 stuff they can post them here while he's talking :-) [18:14:30] Indeed! [18:14:38] I am bossy today :-) [18:14:39] Don't make me all lonely, standing here. [18:14:47] * James_F lives to proxy your questions here. [18:14:49] sj! yay! [18:14:49] Oh man, an _sj_! [18:15:00] * _sj_ lives to proxy your questions to James_F [18:15:01] When will it be rolled out to other/all wikis? [18:15:01] is that, like, a really emphatic SJ? [18:15:11] <_sj_> _yes_ [18:15:14] * James_F grins at _sj_. [18:15:16] Ironholds: Is there another kind? [18:15:34] Ironholds: It's so Sam is always at the top of everyone's IRC window, as well as the top of our minds. :-) [18:15:41] * _sj_ waves at sg, mt, ih [18:15:50] * sgardner waves back [18:15:52] S Walling: How do you enable this feature? [18:15:59] <_sj_> (also because someone else had sj and variants registered before me!) [18:16:00] James_F: ^^ [18:16:06] Ok - question answered [18:16:09] Ah. [18:16:24] Thanks to Eloquence for making me redundant here. [18:16:40] James_F: this also being why you op and voice everywhere ;p [18:17:08] Ironholds: I actually don't have Op rights in this channel. :-) [18:17:20] Now update on Flow from Maryana. [18:17:40] question for Erik re the editor count. Do the edit counts that the WMF quote make allowance for the effect of the edit filter? [18:17:40] (I do not know how to do the outdent thing.) [18:18:01] Demonstration is on toro.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:Flow/Sandbox [18:18:12] http://toro.wmflabs.org/wiki/Special:Flow/Sandbox even [18:18:16] jonathan___, if an edit was not completed due to a filter preventing it, it would not be counted. is that what you mean? [18:18:27] * marktraceur doesn't want people trying to FTP to toro [18:18:47] ^^ [18:19:30] Yes, I was trying to work out whether the underlying edit count had risen of fallen since 2009 [18:19:39] <_sj_> {{outdent|7}} [18:19:53] yay for HTML storage in Flow powered by Parsoid [18:20:14] Questions? [18:20:22] gwicke: Oooh, awesome. [18:20:33] jonathan___: The "underlying" / attempted edit rate isn't recorded, I believe. [18:21:47] Any questions for Maryana before we move on? [18:22:43] @ James F I appreciate that the underlying edit figure isn't recorded. But it would be interesting to try and work it out. [18:22:47] Next up: Education Programme update from LiAnna Davis. [18:23:45] gwicke: do you know if flow is going to still support wikitext for those users who don't have the ability to use VE? [18:23:48] Applause for the Analytics team for their support. [18:23:51] mwalker: Yes. [18:23:55] mwalker: yes, via Parsoid [18:24:08] _sj_ thanks :-) [18:24:13] the storage is HTML, but Parsoid provides the wikitext editing [18:24:15] cool; that's what it sounded like; it just wasn't specifically stated [18:24:43] so when using VisualEditor, Parsoid is not needed at all any more [18:25:25] jonathan___: Understood. [18:26:15] jonathan___: We could possibly ask Analytics if accesses to w/index.php?…action=edit… has changed, but I don't know if they've still got historic data for that (and there might well be extra interfering data in between). [18:26:53] Questions about the Education Programme? [18:26:58] Err. [18:27:00] Program. [18:27:05] What was the copyvio percentage of data added to Wikipedia by students? [18:27:10] Sorry for lapsing into British English. [18:28:15] jonathan___: we're still working on an accurate answer to that. But it looks like on the order of 5% of articles by students in recent US terms include plagiarism. [18:28:17] Does anyone have a link to the wikimetrics tool LiAnna was talking about? (The thing Dan A/Analytics created.) Or is it more complicated than that -- like, I need someone to create an account for me? [18:28:24] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Illustrating_Wikipedia_brochure.pdf <3 [18:28:35] sgardner, metrics.wmflabs.org [18:28:41] (That is not a public question JamesF: I'm just curious. And thanks Erik.) [18:28:50] and even http://metrics.wmflabs.org/ [18:28:50] sgardner: Yes ma'am. :-) [18:28:55] jonathan___: and it looks like this is similar to the general level of plagiarism by other editors. [18:28:58] Any more questions? [18:29:29] we hav a print version of this brochure? [18:29:29] Thanks SageRoss [18:29:40] Steinsplitter: Yeah, it's on the blog - one moment. [18:29:54] OK, moving on. [18:29:55] Next up: Kul on Wikipedia Zero. [18:30:02] i love this brochure. verry nice work!! [18:30:31] Steinsplitter: Blog post is here if it's of interest: https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/08/29/wikimedia-commons-brochure/ [18:30:52] jonathan___: we have data that we're still cleaning up (as described by LiAnna, removing false positives that are reverse plagiarism) for several student cohorts as well as other groups of editors, such as random editors with similar editing histories to the students, admins, and highly active non-admins. [18:30:52] James_F: thank you [18:31:20] Steinsplitter: Speaking personally, I'm rather happy with the page detailing how to insert a picture using VisualEditor. [18:31:33] Steinsplitter: :-) [18:31:37] mh, yes *g* [18:31:54] Not explaining what Wikipedia Zero is means that people seeing this meeting as it's recorded and published, means that some people may be listening to something they don't understand now. [18:32:05] Missed opportunity. 20 words is <10 seconds. [18:32:33] James_F: we forgot to add the part about "you'll need to wait 3-5 hours after upload before you can insert a photo using the VisualEditor." [18:32:36] ;) [18:32:42] ragesoss: Talk to Platform. ;-) [18:32:53] ragesoss: More seriously, the new search system eliminates that issue. [18:33:01] ragesoss: So {{in progress}}. [18:33:02] James_F: so I hear. :) [18:33:09] There is an upside to Wikipedia Zero- populations that understand the value of digital services will over time spend more money on those services [18:33:32] we need a bigger space for metrics! so many people standing [18:34:09] victorgrigas: Yeah, there's upside for the "donor" carriers as well, that's true. [18:34:20] does WMF have a list of what it considers the global south countries? [18:34:23] rfarrand: there is still space.. just no chairs [18:34:42] There's some sitting space in the front row [18:34:47] At least one, maybe two spots [18:35:20] Scratch that, tbayer's laptop took it. :P [18:35:22] rfarrand: I count ~25 people standing [18:36:14] at least those people are paying full attention, no laptops while standing ;) [18:36:19] maybe everyone should stand next time [18:36:21] Bence: "The Global South / North delineations are from the Strategic Plan: "For the purposes of our discussion, the Global North includes Australia, Canada, Israel, Hong Kong, Macau, New Zealand, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan, the United States and all of Europe (including Russia). The Global South includes Asia (with the exception of Japan, Hong Kong, Macau, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan), Cen [18:36:21] tral America, South America, Mexico, Africa, and the Middle East (with the exception of Israel)." " [18:36:27] Bence: From https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Countries_by_Regional_Classification [18:36:31] Questions for Kul? [18:36:42] How are the kids? [18:36:45] * marktraceur is a big fan of being distracted [18:37:00] me too [18:37:06] thanks James_F - your list is slightly different from Kul's map he has shown [18:37:47] Bence: My list is strategywiki's, so might be out of date. [18:38:23] Nah JamesF, I think your list is the formal/official one. Kul/Wikipedia Zero may have adjusted it a little for their purposes. [18:38:38] * James_F nods. [18:38:49] (By formal/official, I mean for the WMF.) [18:39:04] sgardner: Is "Europe" meaning EU, or also e.g. Albania? [18:39:23] the main difference was that Kul's list put the post communist countries in Europe, including EU members, into the Global South [18:39:36] Next up: Tilman about the editor survey. [18:39:56] That is a really good question -- I don't know. Rather than making up our own list, we just borrowed an existing one, but I don't remember the source. [18:41:13] Just checked: yeah, it includes eg Albania. [18:41:15] http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/ict/definitions/regions/index.html [18:41:49] Tilman broke YouTube. [18:41:54] sgardner: Hmm. Marginal call. But yeah. [18:41:58] Youtube dropped. [18:42:17] Bad news bears [18:42:21] * bd808 is still on youtube [18:42:22] siebrand: just reload and it will pick up [18:42:32] Ainali: tx [18:42:47] "It's complicated." LOL. [18:43:42] <_sj_> hard not to choose that answer... [18:43:53] :-) [18:44:05] Questions for Tilman? [18:45:12] OK, taking that as a no. [18:46:25] Next up: Michelle about the consultation on the new Privacy Policy draft. [18:48:40] adorable illustration [18:48:44] ROARRRRRRRRY!!!! [18:48:57] He/she/it is awesome [18:49:03] question for Tilman: when the anonymized raw data from this survey will be pubished? [18:49:49] bd808: I'd go with singular they for convenience :) [18:50:02] roary is a he. [18:50:03] he's got a son! [18:50:05] percy. [18:50:09] [20:41:15] http://www.itu.int/ITU-D/ict/definitions/regions/index.html <- highlighted me [18:50:09] (say it out loud) [18:50:51] :-) [18:52:15] Questions for Michelle? [18:53:10] who is the artist for the Roary drawings? [18:53:22] These administrator pledges, we are going to try to get these from all admins or just functionaries [18:53:24] Bence: Some local artist in SF, I think. [18:54:49] Jamesofur: Do you know? ^^^ [18:55:40] Aye, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles/Rubiment a local SF artist. [18:55:50] Thanks! [18:56:10] jonathan___: it's for people with access beyond admin [18:56:31] access to non public data beyond admin that is [18:56:43] Any more questions? Don't want to go over-time, but don't want to miss questions… [18:56:53] so suppression/cu info etc (that will likely include ACC etc who we currently make id) [18:57:50] thanks Jamesofur. Mightbe an idea not to call the administrator pledges then [18:58:20] * James_F coughs about the term being "sysop" to be clearer. [18:58:26] it is :) [18:59:29] jonathan___: yeah, we're actually calling it a confidentiality agreement . If you see anywhere on wiki it's called an administrator pledge let me know, I thought I wiped those clear when I talked to them about the scope (since we don't make Admins ID) [19:00:01] * James_F muses out loud about whether we /should/, however. [19:00:21] But that's a very different question. [19:00:56] <_sj_> James_F: sounds painful [19:01:04] is translated professionally the same as that money was paid for the translations? [19:01:05] _sj_: So was the EDP process. [19:01:26] marktraceur, you were typing away furiously on that keyboard there :) [19:01:38] Next up: Sue. [19:01:44] subbu: People KEEP. EMAILING. ME. [19:01:53] marktraceur: Stop responding? :-) [19:01:55] * marktraceur turns off the internet for a bit [19:02:06] * James_F hands marktraceur a shift key. [19:02:07] * Eloquence emails marktraceur [19:02:12] * James_F e-mails marktraceur. [19:02:13] <_sj_> [19:02:57] So good to have helpful and supportive coworkers [19:03:11] * rfarrand is busy sending emails to marktraceur [19:03:57] Thanks James, and yes I probably agree that it should be pledged by admins [19:04:41] jonathan___: But I can see a lot of sysops being uncomfortable about being required to identify to some mysterious American organisation just to keep contributing to a website. [19:05:39] jonathan___: Even if I have faith and trust in WMF, that's not necessarily so for people in .ir, or .cn, or .vn… [19:06:16] marktraceur: it's only because we're trying to develop your email handling abilities [19:06:33] think of it as a learning opportunity [19:06:43] mwalker: Only James_F was serious, it seems, so as a load test, this is pretty tame [19:06:50] * James_F grins. [19:06:59] marktraceur: I'm a man of my word. Honour is important. [19:07:45] i sent 2! [19:07:49] Oh, hrm [19:07:58] * marktraceur rechecks email [19:08:11] Any questions for Sue? [19:09:09] @ James A pledge is one thing, identification is another. Identification would bring up problems. [19:10:08] mwalker: You get points for sending it to the fsf.org address [19:10:19] hehe [19:11:28] OK, end of the meeting. [19:11:30] Thanks all. [19:11:37] bye all :) [19:12:06] Yay, I don't have to play the role of MeetBot [19:12:10] thanks! [19:12:17] the stream is still going :) [19:12:43] happy lunch WMFHQ