[00:16:13] hi alantz [00:23:45] alantz: hi again [00:24:22] Hah [00:24:26] She's a mite evasive! [00:48:58] this is a test word - pineapple [00:50:04] this is a test reply - banana [00:50:24] This is a test E: E [18:51:55] * greg-g waves [18:52:12] greg-g: Yo yo yo [18:54:25] * greg-g waits for hangout/live stream [18:54:59] * marktraceur goes to mob cndiv [18:55:05] He's talking about me anyway [18:56:30] greg-g: ^^ [18:57:15] hello, everyone [18:57:18] ty [18:57:50] "8 Facts You're Better Off Not Knowing" not the most convincing youtube video title [18:59:13] Wow, we actually have the stream set up before the scheduled meeting time? [18:59:26] Heya. I'll be IRC meeting lackey today. :-) [18:59:53] Hooray for James_F [19:00:15] James_F: Awesome. Don't forget that the youtube stream lags by a minute or so. :) [19:00:29] We don't have meetbot in here yet, do we? :) [19:00:31] bd808: Absolutely. [19:02:45] Sorry, bit delayed here folks. [19:02:47] James_F: still not started, right? [19:02:47] Starting soon. [19:02:50] ah [19:02:54] jinx or something :) [19:03:30] * James_F grins. [19:04:11] lots of remote presenters today :) [19:04:59] * Lydia_WMDE waves [19:05:04] Ohai Lydia_WMDE! [19:05:08] hey lydia [19:05:10] got the hangout invite? [19:05:19] * Lydia_WMDE checks [19:05:28] doesn't seem so [19:05:37] cndiv just sent it [19:05:45] maybe to my other account? [19:05:54] at wikimedia dot de [19:06:01] got an email now [19:06:02] thx [19:06:05] great [19:06:19] Starting very soon. [19:06:31] we need theme music [19:06:52] Philippe: We have it in the office, but… copyright [19:07:00] curses. [19:07:35] use CC-licensed theme music, you imperialist pigs [19:07:52] yeah! When the revolution comes.... you'll want CC-licensed music :) [19:07:53] greg-g: CC just perpetuates the copyright concept, you patsy! ;-) [19:08:08] getting started now [19:08:16] … and we are live. [19:08:25] YouTube stream lags a little. [19:08:33] (right when we deployed, too :) ) [19:08:53] stream works, cool [19:09:02] no stream yet ? [19:09:04] will the recording be available later? [19:09:21] lbenedix: Yes. [19:09:23] LeslieCarr: Works for me. Try a reload of the page [19:09:27] LeslieCarr: reload, I had to. [19:09:27] yeah, refresh [19:09:33] lbenedix: The YouTube stream will turn into a YouTube saved video. [19:09:35] bd808: did a hard reload, still get please stand by [19:09:56] youtube url? [19:09:58] Hm, it's working for me here. [19:10:06] Hi!!! [19:10:07] chrismcmahon: http://youtu.be/YgXT3aA5CyE [19:10:09] chrismcmahon: In /topic - Stream http://youtu.be/YgXT3aA5CyE [19:10:10] thx great! "Please stand by." [19:10:13] oh thanks [19:10:16] legoktm: weeeee!!!! [19:10:27] sometimes reloading the page works [19:10:29] And now we're having Erik give top-line metrics. [19:10:38] there we go, reloaded again [19:10:43] seeing the "new people" [19:10:58] Audio sounds over-modulated? could be the signal [19:11:01] \o/ qchris [19:11:10] Hi ori-l [19:11:36] qchris: :D [19:11:41] legoktm: Ears blushing? :-) [19:12:15] "Kunal Mehta" "???" "under the nickname legoktm" "OHHHHH" [19:13:13] Being joined by Dario. [19:14:54] Dario is explaining the research done into the drop for September. [19:15:06] Not sure how clear it is for remote people? [19:15:08] there does seem to be seasonal variation [19:15:21] James_F: Haven't gotten to Dario yet [19:15:34] it sounds intelligible [19:15:36] to me [19:15:41] anomie: Right. Maybe 60-120s lag? [19:15:54] Probably. Dario just came on [19:16:11] intelligible, but definitely worse audio than usual. [19:16:12] anomie: Hope it's not too disruptive. :-( [19:16:30] are the slides with the fluctuations online? [19:16:36] I can answer questions about the analyses Dario is discussing. [19:16:39] This means that people should ask questions immediately in here that they have them. [19:16:43] are the vu meters in the red on the mixing board? [19:16:49] Or, yes, let halfak give the answers. :-) [19:16:55] victorgrigas: No, low greens. [19:17:12] Youtube stream anyone? Thanks [19:17:18] ezachte: Topic [19:17:20] Here's the enwiki component analysis https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:En.full.timeseries.components.with_october.svg [19:18:06] in terms of absolute #s, what isthe deviation? in the 10s, 100s? [19:18:18] Next up: WMDE's Lyida about Wikidata. [19:18:29] Also Lydia, for those that can type. :-) [19:18:31] ezachte: the stream here only worked after reloading [19:18:31] subbu: looking that up quick. One sec. [19:18:38] ezachte: it's in the room title [19:18:47] i've head erik say "there's a bit of a lag" now ;) [19:18:52] cscott: Ha. :-) [19:18:53] Ah, thx [19:18:53] eep [19:18:56] subbu: 1000-2000. [19:19:01] (lydia starts nowon my feed) [19:19:05] ezachte: http://youtu.be/YgXT3aA5CyE [19:19:09] that is big. [19:19:09] James_F: If you're timing, Lydia just came on the stream here [19:19:12] the lag arrived here too now [19:19:22] anomie: Right, yes, concordant with ~ 90 seconds' lag. [19:19:26] interesting that there is additional differences in lag between different clients [19:19:27] But not that big proportionally [19:19:27] lag here too [19:19:31] I guess that was about 50 seconds [19:19:35] halfak, ok [19:19:47] If people have questions for Lydia, ask now / as you have them, or ask her here in IRC. :-) [19:20:12] My hypothesis is that activity goes down a lot when school starts back up -- hence the Sept. seasonality. [19:20:30] right, that is what i assumed. [19:20:49] happy birthday, Wikidata! [19:21:25] halfak: Do we have languages predominantly written by people from South Hemisphere people (e.g. South Africa/Australia) that would show a similar drop in… March? [19:21:40] Ooh, sciencey. [19:21:47] halfak, fun of the day, actually [19:21:57] suprise suprise, block seasonality mimics edit seasonality ;p [19:22:16] James_F: we haven't looked into March data for global south specifically [19:22:21] James_F: Good question. That's not something we checked. [19:22:23] Ironholds: Proportionally, or do students get blocked more? :) [19:22:24] * James_F nods. [19:22:40] Ironholds: Any timeseries plots you can link to? [19:22:45] ooohhh [19:22:45] marktraceur, proportionately [19:22:51] georgeous map [19:22:55] ditto [19:23:03] halfak, not yet, but reliably generating them is on today's to-do list. [19:23:20] still huge holes in coverage [19:23:42] wow where does that graphic live? [19:23:48] wow, really cool map [19:23:58] Which is that brightly lit state in the US? [19:24:04] minnesota [19:24:18] eh [19:24:28] Why is that so special geocoordinate/Wikipedia wise? [19:24:38] so, were these co-ordinates mass imported or did individual editors painstakingly add them one at a time? [19:24:41] siebrand: Bulk import? [19:24:44] https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/172199972/map.png [19:24:50] 1 person really invested in that particular state, I guess. [19:25:08] I don't know if the animated viz is available on commons [19:25:11] Minnesota doesn't look more bright in that image [19:25:17] Oh, I see that the current state is no longer with a single state standing out. [19:25:45] see https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2013/07#Map_of_all_geocoordinates [19:26:12] where is the nr. of active editors coming from? its not "having >1 edit in the last 30days"? [19:27:11] anybody got a link handy to these spatio-temporal viz lydia is showcasing? [19:27:12] so yeah, when buried people can have geo coordinates :P [19:27:18] lbenedix: For the general top-lines from Erik? DarTar will be the expert, but yes, I think that's right. [19:27:27] heh re: buried people. :) [19:27:30] lbenedix: it's 5+ main namespace edits per month [19:27:49] the same for wikidata? [19:27:51] with a number of caveats https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Analytics/Metric_definitions#Active_editor [19:27:52] so cool :) [19:28:00] Any questions? [19:28:50] awesome. [19:28:56] so, were these co-ordinates mass imported or did individual editors painstakingly add them one at a time? [19:29:03] i heard "any questions" (for lag estimation) [19:29:07] subbu: Mass-imported from existing statements. [19:29:09] k [19:29:22] thanks cscott. unfortunately I doubt there's much we can do about the lag except report it to google :P [19:29:29] subbu: Lots of use of templated co-ordinates on wikis. [19:29:43] Next up, StevenW from the Growth team. Shout questions as you have them. :-) [19:29:50] there appears tob e some feedback through SF. Should probably mute SF while offsite person is speaking. [19:29:56] Audio is a little rough. [19:30:21] Lydia_WMDE: link to the père-lachaise viz? [19:30:27] siebrand: We think we've fixed that. [19:30:32] cool. [19:31:25] Eloquence: no, i'm reporting it so you know when you've waited long enough for questions from irc. ;) [19:31:49] cscott, yeah right :) [19:32:41] That was [[m:R:OB6]], FWIW. :-) [19:32:59] steven, what does that guided tour look like? [19:33:32] victorgrigas: Did the slide not show? Or do you mean the next step in Ukranian? [19:34:03] I'm curious about the actual guided tour, are there pop ups along the way [19:34:07] etc... [19:34:28] victorgrigas: Ah, guided tours in general? [19:34:41] yes - as per this successful test [19:34:46] DarTar: http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/tempo_spatial_display.html [19:34:52] victorgrigas: See blog.wikimedia.org/2013/02/01/guided-tour-launch/ [19:34:57] the exact examples are in my slides [19:35:01] thanks [19:35:01] last slide [19:35:02] "conservative estimate" {{cn}} [19:35:36] Lydia_WMDE: thanks [19:37:00] We did collect stats for anons. But resource bottlenecks came in the way (in memory hashes, from when we were smaller). Could be fixed of course. [19:37:01] I can answer questions about the analysis of IP --> registered editor conversion and productivity that Steven is talking about. [19:37:39] StevenW has his own CTA on these slides - [[mw:Growth/2013-14 Goals]]. :_) [19:37:41] Questions? [19:38:26] isn't article creation primarily a social problem? [19:38:43] What does "primarily a social problem" mean? [19:39:00] community is being rude, obnoxious - to put it blunt [19:39:09] (and probably differs from language to language) [19:39:30] i guess he is asking how could technology solve that issue [19:39:38] I'm having a hard time how that will change with software yeah [19:39:46] Oh. This should go to Steven, James_F. [19:39:47] +to imagine [19:39:49] Yeah. [19:39:52] But I have some discussion about it too. [19:40:07] software could maybe change the average demographic by diluting etc [19:40:16] write the article on metric-fuck-ton [19:40:53] :) [19:41:50] ok, I see - so it's mostly focused on enwiki [19:41:56] it's deeper than that IMO, gwicke [19:42:01] see for example http://intl-pss.sagepub.com/content/19/12/1219.full [19:42:01] * Lydia_WMDE drops out as it is late here already and she needs to get out of the office - if you have more questions on wikidata please come to #wikimedia-wikidata :) [19:42:04] (just heard the answer by Steven) [19:42:05] FYI, I'll probably be leaving my computer *immediately* after my presentation ends (if not before), but I'm happy to follow up with questions later in the day... I'll check my chat log later on. [19:42:12] Lydia_WMDE is hiding! [19:42:16] ;-) [19:42:21] example of seemingly unrelated environmental conditions affecting people's social and moral behavior, i mean [19:42:41] ragesoss, OK, we'll try to move on so you get to actually speak :) [19:42:44] it seems eminently plausible that UX/UI can have the same kind of effect [19:42:46] What's the library lady's name? [19:42:59] ori-l: even if dilution worked it would not make a difference if somebody intent on deleting still deletes [19:43:06] :-) [19:43:07] Lydia_WMDE: Bye! [19:43:33] ragesoss, I'll take Fabrice next but then we'll take you [19:43:43] Articles for Creation is, of course, not mandatory. [19:43:44] awesome, thanks! [19:43:51] Next up, Fabrice and marktraceur from the Multimedia team, talking about Beta Features. Shout questions as you have them. [19:43:57] aharoni: It is if you're an IP. [19:43:58] I never quite understood what is it for exactly. [19:44:23] aharoni: "Temporary" disabled ability in 2006. [19:45:27] Yes, I know that... I'd say that it's just a LOT easier to create an account than to go to the unbelievable mess of AFC. [19:45:46] aharoni: New users get pushed into AfC by templated instructions. [19:46:08] note to speakers/presenters in the future: dont' use the bottom 1/4th of the slide, we can't see it on the live stream [19:46:43] greg-g: :-( [19:47:26] it's where faces like ragesoss's live [19:47:49] Question: where has all of mark's hair gone? [19:47:59] edsanders: Floor of the barber's. ;-) [19:50:18] isn't there any way to hide the hangout participants? [19:50:40] looks Flickr-esque! [19:50:44] marcoil: +1 hard to see the bottom of slides. [19:50:50] (that's a compliment.) [19:51:12] marcoil: No, sadly. [19:51:34] StevenW, what's the title of the article about that library lady? (And while we're at it, what's the title of the article about the article?) [19:51:40] if g+ was open source, we could change it :) [19:51:46] What does this do to the URL? [19:51:46] marcoil, halfak: relaying this to Chip [19:51:51] nice [19:51:53] (mediaviewer) [19:51:55] Thanks DarTar [19:51:58] aharoni: I think it's http://www.thedigitalshift.com/2013/10/roy-tennant-digital-libraries/winter-wikipedias-discontent/ [19:51:59] marcoil: If G+ was open source, we'd be arguing about which of the 12 flavours to use. :-) [19:52:10] James_F: lol [19:52:12] effeietsanders, there's a bug to have a # URL trail that would make URLs copyable [19:52:17] Next up, Chris Steipp on OAuth. [19:52:20] thanks marcoil [19:52:23] Oh, wait, no. [19:52:30] Next up, Sage on the Education Programme. [19:52:38] marktraceur: is beta features appropriate for our togetherjs stuff? [19:52:40] Sorry. [19:52:46] I'm curious what it'll do to the traffic to Commons and whether more or less people will search there for 'more images' [19:52:50] cscott: It would be! [19:52:53] James_F: such an anti-FLOSS troll ;) [19:52:57] thanks, Eloquence [19:53:04] James_F: <3 hilighting me [19:53:18] greg-g: :-) [19:53:27] marktraceur: i might also have a scribunto/javascript beta feature candidate... ;) [19:53:41] Oooh. [19:53:49] cscott: Woo. [19:54:35] cscott: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Beta_Features/New_Features [19:55:30] marktraceur: thx [19:55:40] Does this graph mean that edits are mostly plagiarism? [19:55:53] nvm walkthrough time [19:56:32] halfak: Want me to ask that? [19:56:39] Argh, too late. [19:56:44] Nope. I got it now. thanks [19:56:51] *Now* we've got Chris Steipp. [19:57:08] OAuth for everyone. [19:57:10] ragesoss: is the plagiarism study on Meta? [19:57:17] ^ [19:57:32] halfak: no, that graph is scaled more or less to the top rate of plagiarism among the groups. [19:57:39] which is about 13 % [19:57:39] no, *now* we have Chris Steipp [19:57:52] yeah, at least a minute lag (only said that to test) [19:57:53] DarTar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Education_program/Research/Plagiarism [19:58:12] thanks [19:58:45] we should get into the habit of moving research reports to :m:Research:Projects ;) [19:59:19] DarTar: yeah. I can do that at this point. Wanted to start it on en.wiki, because it required some community back-and-forth as I wrote it up. [19:59:19] ragesoss: I'll move it for you if you're too busy. :) [19:59:27] halfak: feel free. [19:59:30] I'm leaving now. [19:59:33] bye folks! [19:59:33] halfak: Special:Export time? [19:59:34] ciao [19:59:37] Bye ragesoss [19:59:52] James_F, halfak: Special:Import rather [20:00:03] James_F: can you move from one Wiki to another with history? [20:00:10] DarTar: First Export, then Import. :-) [20:00:13] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Import [20:00:18] you can directly import from enwiki [20:00:20] DarTar: Or can you do direct cross-wiki transfer inside WMF cluster? [20:00:21] Cool! [20:00:24] DarTar: Ah. Interesting. [20:00:24] that's what we use for the newsletter [20:00:38] you can copy the history [20:00:40] halfak: Yes, you import the history. [20:00:49] leave "Include all templates" unselected [20:00:53] halfak: If people have clashing local accounts, it will mis-identify based on string. [20:01:00] halfak: But it's pretty good. [20:01:19] James_F: Question for Chris. How far out is an identity system like OpenId? [20:01:29] halfak: Sure. [20:02:02] probably running 5-10 mins over [20:03:43] halfak: there are tentative plans to move towards OpenID connect (Oauth2) [20:04:16] would be time to get SUL completed [20:04:25] Romaine: Indeed. [20:04:54] Now Oona and Anasuya. [20:05:09] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Programa_Catalisador_do_Brasil/Planejamento_2012-2013/Parcerias/A%C3%A7%C3%A3o_Educativa/Proposal [20:05:11] what was the time frame to get next step of SUL happen? [20:05:31] Romaine: I don't know. [20:05:42] DGarry: ^^^ [20:05:58] :( [20:06:03] Ooh. [20:06:27] It slipped down my list, unfortunately. I've been focussing on Search and OAuth. [20:07:18] Lots of things blocked on SUL, sadly. [20:07:55] Yeah, and nothing's getting better by having it lying around. [20:08:11] It doesn't help that my work schedule is a mess due to my current living situation. [20:08:19] I'll see if I can block some time off to devote to it. [20:08:29] Well, except that if we wait long enough, everyone with an existing local account that clashes will be dead, so there's less upset? ;-) [20:08:42] :( I don't have permission to Special:Import. [20:08:45] hey DGarry [20:08:55] DarTar: do you have Special:Import rights on meta? [20:08:58] halfak: I do [20:09:10] I can help with that [20:09:18] Can you make the move while I figure out how to get myself those rights? [20:09:28] sure [20:09:50] DGarry: how far out is a blog post on OAuth? Is it going to be before or after the global rollout? [20:10:28] DarTar: Definitely before. That's on my list of things to start tonight and finish tomorrow. :) [20:10:43] sweet [20:11:09] Now an update from Megan on the Fundraiser. [20:11:24] DGarry: I think the proposal was to have the blog post out /after/ it's available to everyone… [20:11:38] ragesoss: still around? do you have a preferred title for the Plagiarism study? [20:11:52] James_F: Why's that? [20:12:04] DGarry: So people can use it as soon as they've heard about it? [20:12:28] agree that would give the announcement the max impact [20:12:54] Sure, we can do that then. :) [20:13:22] megan: will there be communication to the community & affiliates on what you're planning for the current fundraising campaign? [20:13:35] but I imagine it's be good to have devs play with it on MW ASAP so by the time of the global rollout we could have new apps available for WPs [20:13:52] Finally Yana about the Trademark Policy draft. [20:14:40] it turns out metrics meeting time estimates are about as reliable as software engineering time estimates :P [20:14:51] Eloquence: Not that bad. It's still Thursday here. :-) [20:15:21] edsanders, you're up [20:15:22] Should we start scheduling meetings in terms of effort? [20:15:38] STORY POINTS FTW [20:15:47] :) [20:16:09] * James_F laughs. [20:16:19] marktraceur: I don't see the typography refresh on mediawiki.org Beta Features [20:16:25] :) [20:16:33] StevenW: That'd be because it's not there [20:16:41] hi effeietsanders, yes we'll keep posting updates and plans on meta: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_2013 [20:16:53] Any word on when it will roll out? [20:17:02] Have the legal department just failed to credit the photographer there? [20:17:03] StevenW: We need to be on beta-labs for a week, so it's going to mw.org next week and then to Commons et al. the Monday after. [20:17:04] tsk [20:17:04] meganhernandez: ah, only on meta? I would have expected a summary on wikimedia-l :) [20:17:14] marktraceur: cool beans [20:17:26] (and internal, but I know the WMF doesn't like that any more :) ) [20:17:32] StevenW: It is, however, on en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org [20:17:54] effeietsanders: Wait, internal-l is still going? I thought it was agreed that it was inactive? [20:18:09] yeah we'll send around to the list too, i don't send every test update to the mailing lists but will send info to the lists with launch info [20:18:22] everytime someone from wmf forwards me an email from internal-l I unsubscribe them ;P [20:18:46] Eloquence: yeah, that's the spirit... :/ [20:18:59] Needs a "not sorry, NO" section [20:19:20] meganhernandez: yeah, I was talking about the general summary yes, not the test results etc :) thanks [20:19:51] marktraceur: "I'm a Columbian drug cartel and we want to sell Wikipedia-branded exstacy. That's OK, right?" and the like? [20:19:58] can you press ctrl + - on the laptop a few times [20:19:59] James_F: Exactly. [20:20:12] James_F: Though I fear we'd be tempted to abuse that section... [20:20:12] the people in the corner are covering the slides [20:20:30] And that's us done, I think. [20:20:37] Oh, wait, Sue update. [20:20:40] * James_F forgot. [20:20:42] James_F: Is "exstacy" an en_GBism for ecstasy, or is one of us a mite confused? [20:20:56] marktraceur: I blame my keys. [20:21:06] I blame Keyes [20:21:14] marktraceur: That works. Ironholds is always at fault. [20:21:16] Usually [20:21:30] oh look, attribution, I take it back [20:22:00] I want to hear about the ED search. [20:22:08] Not the news dramahz. [20:22:11] StevenW: Grab a mike? [20:22:16] No you. [20:22:28] Seconded. [20:22:29] StevenW: You want to grab me? [20:22:56] Hey you guys. Get a channel. [20:22:59] Yes, but that's later. [20:23:05] * James_F grins. [20:23:05] LOL [20:23:27] * cscott waves his hand vaguely in response to various of sue's questions [20:24:02] i'm feeling very left out of all the hand raising action. ;) [20:24:04] oh, I thought google was tallying our remote arms through our webcams… [20:24:14] marcoil: no, that's the nsa [20:24:21] cscott, i was about o say that :) [20:24:39] cscott: isn't it all the same? ;) [20:24:57] marcoil: only if you're european. ;) [20:24:58] cscott, I can be your meat puppet [20:25:03] that came out wrong [20:25:21] orly [20:25:32] lol [20:25:33] Eloquence: Umm. :-) [20:25:49] That magical time of month when WMFers stagger out of the staff channel and make faux pas in the office channel instead. [20:25:55]