[15:15:19] Ironholds: I want to chat really quick about abuse filter log when you have a chance/the sun comes up where you are. [15:28:28] halfak: Did you leave our fine state again? [15:29:04] marktraceur: I did. I'm back in the wintery wonderland of Minnesota. [15:29:55] Fun times [18:11:29] You guys [18:11:31] Reset the topic [18:11:34] Jeebus [18:25:08] It's a bawolff! [18:25:20] * marktraceur plays pokemon battle music [18:25:26] Surprise! [18:26:16] 0/gw [18:26:18] ... [18:26:33] That's not how commands work, brain [18:29:24] Hey bawolff, edsanders, Eloquence, guillom, James_F, quiddity, Romaine, Thehelpfulone and so many other friendly faces! [18:29:32] Ping the whole channel! Woo! [18:29:38] heh [18:29:43] hi all! [18:29:53] I just wanted to wake some of you up :) [18:30:25] Anyone else here for the chat about Beta Features and Media Viewer? [18:30:34] hey fabriceflorin [18:30:40] fabriceflorin: If they are, they'll reveal themselves [18:30:49] Hey Keegan, glad you're here! [18:30:54] G'morning. I'm in serial meetings, but will read backlog later on. ;) [18:31:02] OK, let's get started then. :) [18:31:25] * Dmcdevit waves. [18:31:29] Yes Fabrice [18:31:31] We're really happy to announce the first release of Beta Features, a new program from the Wikimedia Foundation that lets you try out new features before they are released for everyone. [18:31:57] You can read more about Beta Features here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/About_Beta_Features [18:33:09] First off, I'd like to introduce some of the team members who worked on this project: the fearless marktraceur, tgr, edsanders, James_F, Keegan and many more [18:33:35] This is Mark Holmquist, your correspondent on the ground, reporting from SFO International Airport for the next 20-30 minutes until my flight boards. I can answer technical questions, but you'd better ask 'em quick! (or, you know, ask me any other time, I'm always online) [18:33:39] The goal of Beta Features is to provide a digital laboratory where community members can preview upcoming software and give feedback to help improve them. [18:33:47] This special preference page lets designers and engineers experiment with new features on a broad scale, but in a way that's not disruptive. [18:34:02] How many of you have tried Beta Features already? Any initial impressions? [18:34:54] (To try Beta Features, go to MediaWiki.org, Commons or Meta, log in and, a small 'Beta' link will appear next to your 'Preferences'. Click on it to see features you can test, check the ones you want, then click 'Save'. Learn more on the Beta Features page. [18:35:14] I've tested the Formula editor and the Media Viewer [18:35:15] Unfortunately mediawiki.org is suffering from technical problems right now so I can't go try it. ^_^ [18:35:35] Yeah, the site's...down...a lot [18:35:39] asaifm: How did that work for you? What did you like/not like? [18:35:44] Operations folks are working on it [18:35:58] Nutmore: Sorry for the snafu at MW.org. Want to try Commons instead? [18:36:08] Or meta? [18:36:12] They're...all down [18:36:13] It's alive now. Let's have a look. [18:36:48] semi-alive. ops is on it right now. [18:36:51] Anyone else try Beta Features yet? How did the software work for you? What do you think of the concept of trying out new features in this safe environment? [18:36:59] fabriceflorin: Do you feedback on the specific features now, or just the beta features concept? [18:37:19] The nice thing about the Visual Editor Formulae is that I can see a preview of the equation in real time [18:37:24] Dmcdevit: Let's talk about the overall concept first, then we can dive in the features. [18:38:04] But I still use it as the source editor, I've to know the Latex syntax to write anything [18:38:08] asaifm: Cool. Glad you like Formulae. James_F, would you like to give us an overview of how the Visual [18:38:18] I liked the idea and the interface. My only real complaint is that the name is a little obscure, I think. [18:38:20] And there is no rtl support [18:38:25] … how the Visual Editor team plans to use Beta Features? [18:39:10] I'm not sure how meaningful "beta" is to the non-techies a couple of these features are trying to reach. [18:39:11] Dmcdevit: For BetaFeatures? If so, we're working on it :) [18:39:18] Oh, cool. :-) [18:39:23] I'll find you a bug [18:39:23] Dmcdevit: Yes, we've had some complaints about the name Beta Features -- which is really hard to translate in some languages. This project's main champion, our UX director Jared Zimmerman is looking into this. [18:39:35] Dmcdevit: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56537 [18:39:37] Sure. We're planning to roll out most new features for all users on an opt-in basis through Beta Features for a few weeks or months, fix them based on feedback, and then move them to general availability. [18:39:42] But apparently bugzilla is down too? [18:39:43] As for the Media Viewer, it's nice but I think there are features that need to be reachable by a single click instead of two [18:39:46] Oh, no, we're good [18:40:08] for example the possible dimensions of a picture [18:40:34] Looking at the formula editor for VE, you might make to want it clear how to access the feature that's been enabled. Perhaps have a "beta" tag on the button in the VE, so you know that's what you're looking at? [18:40:42] asaifm: We could probably include those in our metadata [18:40:47] I enabled it and I'm pretty unsure as to where the formula editor actually is in VE. [18:41:01] Thanks, James_F -- can you tell us more about where the VisualEditor Opt-in version will appear? Is it only on some sites? [18:41:13] I assumed it was the sigma, but that's labelled LaTeX (which, of course, is the de facto standard for formulae, so it might be that). [18:41:33] VisualEditor itself is also an opt-in on some sites, and so appears as a Beta Feature. [18:41:39] asaifm: If you'd like to file a bug, http://wmbug.com/new?product=MediaWiki%20Extensions&component=MultimediaViewer [18:41:44] ULS (Universal Language Selector) is still not yet fully integrated with VE [18:41:49] @marktraceur Are you taling right now about the Media Viewer? [18:41:50] Nutmore: Yeah, labelling fun. [18:41:52] Yeah [18:42:26] PavanajaUB: Yes, that's something the Language and VisualEditor teams need to work on. It won't be part of Beta Features, though. [18:42:31] @marktraceur ok, will do [18:43:25] Note that you can read more about the VE Opt-in feature here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Beta_Features/General [18:43:41] James_F: Thanks. Can you tell us a bit about the next VE Beta Feature? [18:45:07] While we're talking about new beta features, I want to let folks know that the next one in our pipeline is 'Typography Refresh', from Jon Robson on our Mobile team: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Typography_Update [18:45:24] MediaViewer is a good utility [18:45:49] +1 [18:46:31] Was there ever a conclusion to the thread about free fonts for typo refresh? [18:46:56] This Typography feature will update the Vector skin to make text more readable, by using serif for headers, and sans-serif for body copy. It is now scheduled to be released on MediaWiki.org on Nov. 14, then on Nov. 21 on all wikis, along with the two features we have already introduced (VE Formulae and MediaViewer). [18:47:07] All right, they're boarding my flight now, I'm gonna pack up [18:47:13] Behave while I'm gone, y'all [18:47:18] @James_F Any new features for the VE Formulae in the future? [18:47:27] OK, marktraceur, so glad you could join us! [18:47:31] Bye marktraceur. [18:47:51] Safe travels [18:47:52] And a round of applause to marktraceur for his amazing work on this project! [18:48:02] Clap clap clap [18:48:12] asaifm: Longer-term the plan is to have a proper rich editor for formulæ, with drag-and-drop functions like integrands etc. [18:48:17] Nicely done, man :) [18:48:33] asaifm: That will probably be based on MathJax, or browser native MathML rendering. [18:48:41] So we arent deploying new beta features all at once, but still in different groups? [18:48:43] asaifm: But that's a little far off at this point - no promises. :-) [18:49:09] bawolff: It rides the deploy train like normal code, yes. [18:49:15] @James_F Thanks for the info [18:49:54] The next part of VisualEditor that we're going to put out as a Beta Feature is the in-line language editor, which lets you set lang and dir attributes on selections of content. [18:50:06] I'd also like to give special thanks to James_F and edsanders for being such wonderful partners in creating Beta Features, taking on many of the development tasks at a time when our little multimedia team could handle no more :) This was truly a cross-team effort ... [18:50:17] I know it's something that the Hebrew Wikipedia is particularly keen to get soon. [18:50:26] Thank you, fabriceflorin. :-) [18:50:33] Hmm I guess that makes sense. Does seem kind of odd to have a beta feature come to the beta wikis first (doubly beta!) [18:51:28] James_F: You're very welcome -- and thanks as well for kindly acting as the point-person for this project while I'm away next week, it's very generous of you :) [18:52:00] I would like to encourage everyone to give us their thoughts about Beta Features after you've tried it on this discussion page: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:About_Beta_Features [18:52:22] And please file any bugs about the Beta Features extension here: http://wmbug.com/new?product=MediaWiki%20extensions&component=BetaFeatures [18:53:20] I would now like to focus our attention on Media Viewer, the beta feature which our multimedia team is now experimenting with. [18:53:21] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Multimedia/About_Media_Viewer [18:53:45] Media Viewer aims to improve the viewing experience by displaying images in larger size and with less clutter than the current file pages. [18:54:21] This beta feature provides two different views of an image when you click on its thumbnail on an article page: Lightbox and Full Screen View. [18:55:45] So when you click on a thumbnail, the image is shown in large size, as an overlay over the page where you clicked on, against a white, slightly translucent background. This makes the image stand out more and removes some of the visual clutter typically found on a text-heavy page. [18:56:13] Here's an example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/MediaViewer_FirstMockup_Closeup.jpg [18:56:55] You can see more examples on this demo page: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Lightbox_demo [18:57:22] This first version 0.1 is still in early stages of development, with many known bugs, but we invite community feedback right away for this feature, so we can improve it together in coming months. [18:57:39] So what do you think? What do you like or not like about this first version of Media Viewer? [18:58:38] fabriceflorin: i like this media viwer but the Uploaded by {{username}} is a little problem imho. it schows only the last uploader (i think the first uploader is bether?) [18:59:08] Did anyone try it on MediaWiki, Meta or Commons? You first need to click on 'Beta' near 'Preferences', then enable 'Media Viewer', then go to any article page, gallery or category page with thumbnails. [18:59:19] Maybe a comma separated list would be good (?) [18:59:34] I have a couple of comments. As this is primarily a feature for readers/viewers, I think that a download button should be very prominent, but you still can't download until you click through the the image page. [19:00:11] Steinsplitter: Thanks for your good feedback about the uploader name. You make a good point that the first uploader would make sense to display. Would you want a 'More' button to see all the up loaders for a file? [19:00:23] Agree with @Dmcdevit [19:00:30] Dmcdevit: i disagree, downloading without reading the license :/ [19:01:11] Dmcdevit: Good point about the need for a download button, duly noted. Perhaps it could be included in the 'Use this file' panel? (which is admittedly very crude right now) [19:01:12] fabriceflorin: "More"-button is a _verry_ good iddea :) [19:01:39] I have " Invalid Date" on a photo [19:01:47] Steinsplitter: I wouldn't make the assumption that all images are even copyrighted. :-) [19:01:59] asaifm: Thanks, good to hear that both you and Dmcdevit agree, though Steinsplitter makes a good point that we need to make people aware of the license info as well. [19:02:23] Perhaps our good users wish to use the image as fair use ;) [19:02:25] Pyb: Me too. We have a bug for that :) Should be solved soon. [19:03:18] bawolff: Hehe. Fair use is always an option, if done carefully. But seriously, I think including this in the 'Use this file' with proper warnings might be a good direction to explore. [19:03:19] a lot of "non wikipedia users" are using the Photos of the wikipedia-users without respecting the license. [19:03:29] * bawolff thinks its wishful thinking people read licenses at the best of time. But we should encourage as much as possible [19:03:36] Any other things you like or don't like about Media Viewer in its current form? [19:03:46] It also seems like there needs to be more flexibility about how to make certain fields appear. Commons has a lot of custom information templates, and non-CC licenses. Maybe there should just be a set of instructions where if the template conforms to a set of principles, it will work for Media Viewer? [19:04:38] Ideally I think we would want that to depend on wikidata [19:04:47] I'm looking at my 100,000 image uploads using the NARA template, for example, and they have no source information. [19:05:04] Do you guys think the image shown in the Media Viewer is too large or too small in its current form? [19:05:19] @fabrice I'm waiting for the next and previous buttons. Seen them in the mockups. May be in a future release? [19:05:36] It will be better to provide a download option for the image in Mediaviewer [19:05:39] hi [19:06:04] Dmcdevit: Could you share a URL of one of your images with no source info? Was the source info included in the 'Information' template of the description, or somewhere else? [19:06:48] asaifm: Glad you asked. For a sneak peek at the next version 0.2 of the Media Viewer, check out these first mockups. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Multimedia/About_Media_Viewer#Next_Version [19:07:17] fabriceflorin: Well, my point was that it doesn't use the Information template, because there are many other templates on Commons that serve that purpose. But it has some of the same key fields as Information that could be mapped onto Media Viewer. Look at any images from https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:NARA_images_of_Alaska for example. [19:08:04] @fabrice I think the dimensions are ok. My main issue with the Media Viewer is the need to eliminate the need to go to any other page (minimize no. of clicks) and the optimization of the layout [19:08:05] Dmcdevit: we rely on https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Machine-readable_data for the most part [19:08:21] The next version 0.2 of Media Viewer will focus on a 'full-width design' as the default view, to provide a more immersive user experience. When you click on a thumbnail, you would see a larger image than you do now, with only a small sliver of meta-data at the bottom of the page, as shown in this mockup: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Media_Viewer_Desktop_-_Large_Image_Opaque_Info.png [19:08:21] layout buttons and links* [19:08:50] mmmm giant images \o/ [19:09:21] And version 0.2 will also have next/previous arrows, so you can browse through all the images in an article, gallery or category, as shown in this mockup: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Media_Viewer_Desktop_-_Large_Image_Sequence.png [19:09:33] tgr: Okay, maybe this is what I'm looking for. Is it just a matter of needing to bring non-standard templates in conformity with those? [19:09:56] It's also using a standard PD-USGov, which is one of the most common licenses on Commons, and it's weird to me that Media Viewer only displays CC licenses, not PD. [19:10:51] Supposedly wikidata will eventually come to commons, allowing much more structured forms of metadata, and all around be awesome [19:10:57] Dmcdevit: yes, if the template contains the right classnames, MediaViewer will understand it [19:11:12] Dmcdevit: One of our biggest tasks in 2014 will be to work with the WikiData team to provide structured data across all Commons files, so that we can consolidate all these loose templates into a clean database that is properly formatted. We expect that work to take place this summer, if all goes well. At that point, many of the issues you point out should be addressed. [19:11:25] (fabriceflorin: @reuse of immage: like this http://www.pic-upload.de/view-21272790/MW.jpg.html ?) [19:11:45] the longterm goal is of course to have some sort of strucured data, like Wikibase (the extension behind Wikidata) [19:11:49] Okay, thanks for all the answers. :-) [19:11:50] (-below) [19:12:28] but data will have to be imported somehow into that, so some form of marking-up-in-template-output will be necessary anyway [19:12:50] Is CC-PD-Mark (included in all PD templates) not already one of the machine-readable licenses? [19:13:06] tgr: i know ;-), this was a example. [19:13:06] MediaViewer provides an API to all the data it extracts from the templates [19:13:21] or a link to the file page secion #license or somthing like this [19:14:17] You're welcome, Dmcdevit, thanks for pointing out these issues. We encourage all of you to file MediaViewer bugs if you encounter them, here on Bugzilla: http://wmbug.com/new?product=MediaWiki%20extensions&component=MultimediaViewer [19:14:39] Dmcdevit, there are some licenses we can already detect but don't have an UI for yet [19:15:55] brion: I share your excitement about big images, they completely transform the experience. Here are some of the slides we shared at yesterday's metrics meeting, which show how we hope to combine full-width images with copious meta-data, below the fold: https://docs.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/presentation/d/10SRpqT9CcxMgjSSfR2Tj8DIM66k46WMbY54-yagw08Y/edit#slide=id.g1729feba3_4_0 [19:16:13] My only other comment was going to be that I think it's worth considering if the Media Viewer should also display the image's caption. I think that, at least in lightbox mode, that would be useful data. [19:17:08] Dmcdevit: if you want to see what it can detect currently, look at http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&titles=&prop=imageinfo&format=jsonfm&iiprop=extmetadata [19:17:39] tgr: Thanks, that's very useful. :-) [19:17:48] paroneayea: ^ that's about licenses [19:18:10] brion: One of the issues we face is how to display these large images faster. Right now, we ask the server to pre-load each image for us, which takes forever. But if we already had pre-generated image thumbnails in a variety of sizes, we could ask the server which image is best for the user's screen size and load them a lot faster. The question is how can we improve our current thumbnail setup to accomplish that in [19:18:11] coming weeks? Otherwise, Media Viewer will be stuck in Beta for months ... [19:20:04] Fabrice: I hope you mean load not pre-load [19:20:26] yeah I've made some notes on some of the relevant bugs on fast load suggestions [19:20:47] Dmcdevit: Good point about showing the description/caption above the fold. We are torn about this, because the less clutter we have, the better the viewing experience. And current description lengths vary greatly, so sometimes they're empty, sometimes they're so huge we have to add a scrollbar. So it's a tough call, hence the proposed placement below the fold. [19:21:47] bawolff, yes, load, not preload [19:22:46] suddenly I wonder about actual progressive jpegs [19:23:17] Dmcdevit: However, one solution we're considering is adding a new 'Title/Caption' field where people would be invited to write a short caption that describes the image well in a few words -- and store that in the new database we hope to build with Wikidata this summer. Over time, we could start displaying that info instead of the ugly file names we now have (those would eventually be phased out and replaced with a [19:23:17] less prominent numeric file naming system like all big multimedia sites have). But all this would take place over a year or so ... [19:23:32] For now, our plan is to add the caption right before the description, when one exists. [19:24:35] brion, the big issue for us is thumbnail generation time, not image loading time [19:24:43] fabriceflorin: numeric file naming system? What about human-readable slugs? [19:24:46] i don't think progressive jpegs would help there [19:24:50] nod [19:24:55] fabriceflorin: Yeah, it just seemed to me that in all cases I encountered, the caption where the viewer encountered the image (if there is one) is more likely to be relevant than the description on the image page. But that all sounds good. [19:25:04] bawolff: Yes, I mean 'load', not 'pre-load'. My point is that I think we need a background script to 'pre-generate' many different thumbnail sizes for all images as soon as they are created -- so that we can immediately load the closest size for faster display. [19:25:05] sticking to common sized will help [19:26:03] * bawolff wonders how big the difference in time is.  [19:26:17] brion: Would love to see your notes about faster image display, when they are public -- I know there is also an RfC underway for improving the thumbnail pipeline, which may be able to help address this blocker for Media Viewer. bd808|LUNCH may be able to tell us more when he gets back from lunch :) [19:26:34] :) [19:27:13] bawolff, currently thumbnail generation seems to take 3-5s for decently-sized images [19:27:31] Wow. Thats more than I would expect [19:28:03] AVRS: We're just now starting to think about possible alternatives to the current file naming system, and are open to all practical solutions. Human readable slugs may work better than numeric file naming, all I know is the current system is ancient and cumbersome, and can't last forever … To be continued. :) [19:28:14] once there made they're cached but if everyone has a different window size that sucks [19:29:03] Fabriceflorin: have you read the old proposal neilk made on that ? [19:29:24] bawolff: showing an already existing thumb is under 1s, so there is quite a difference [19:29:46] bawolff : I think if we take a close look at how Flickr and other big photo sites load images quickly, we may learn a few techniques that could help us improve our current image display speeds, which are sadly not acceptable :( [19:29:51] asaifm_: BTW, we just fixed the LTR/RTL issue with the VisualEditor formula editor - will be out next week. [19:30:06] brion: yes, using standard sizes will be our next step [19:30:14] bawolff: I would love to see the link to neilk's proposal ... [19:30:34] @James_F Thanks for the update. Willl try it out and update you in the next office hour [19:31:02] * bawolff doesn't actually agree with it, but good to look at old proposals [19:31:12] OK, folks, we've reached the end of our meeting time. Are there any other important comments we have not yet discussed and that we should address in this chat? Any final thoughts on our overall direction with this new program? [19:31:31] No thanks Fabrice [19:31:47] asaifm_: Thanks so much for joining our chat :) [19:33:08] Everyone, we'll have another IRC chat about Beta Features and Multimedia in 2 weeks exactly, Friday, 22 November at 18:00 UTC. Please join us then to continue this excellent conversation … and spread the word :) [19:33:56] Thanks guys. :-) [19:34:53] We also have a few slots open for two 'roundtable discussions' we will be hosting via Google Hangouts on 27 November and 4 December at 18:00 UTC. If you are interested, sign up on one of these Roundtable pages: [19:34:55] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Roundtables/Roundtable_4#Group_1_-_I_am_interested_and_available_to_join_this_roundtable: [19:34:58] or: [19:35:04] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Roundtables/Roundtable_5#Group_1_-_I_am_interested_and_available_to_join_this_roundtable: [19:36:04] fabriceflorin: neilk's proposal is at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:NeilK/Multimedia2011/Titles [19:37:09] These roundtables are small group discussions about important topics we're hoping to solve collaboratively with the community. Because of the video conference setting, they are typically more convivial than large IRC chats for solving difficult problems. Ping me at if you have any questions. [19:37:48] Thanks again to everyone for participating in this discussion. Your insights are much, much appreciated, as always! [19:38:38] James_F: Thanks so much for your good clarifications about next steps for VisualEditor and Beta Features. :) Did we cover everything you were hoping we would? [19:41:11] Dmcdevit: I am so glad you joined this discussion, it was very helpful for us to view this project through your eyes as a media-savvy curator :) Would you like to join one of our upcoming roundtables as well? [19:42:30] fabriceflorin: Yes, it was fine. [19:42:52] Unfortunately, I don't think I can make either of those dates because of Thanksgiving-related travel. But I'll definitely keep following your communications. [19:43:48] Dmcdevit: No worries. Glad you could join this chat, I really enjoyed your contributions. To be continued ... [19:46:34] Hey Keegan : How do you think that discussion went? Did it work for you? Would you have done anything differently? [19:47:26] I think it went well. Stayed focused, on message [19:47:56] That question goes to other participants as well, BTW. We're always looking for ways to have more productive collaborations as a movement -- and we thrive on feedback. How could we make the next chat even more useful to you? [19:48:03] Commons was able to talk about what they can do on their end to support mediaviewer and vice versa so that's a good thing [19:49:06] Cool. Glad it worked for you. Did we spend enough time on Beta Features? I didn't want the whole conversation to be just about Media Viewer, even though that's the main project for our team :) [19:49:51] … so I gave each project 30 mins. [19:50:50] Yes that was fine. There's not a lot to Beta Features product wise this week, so there's only so much to discuss [19:50:54] James_F: Thanks again for all your help with this project. It's a true pleasure to be working with you, as always :) [19:50:59] * James_F bows. [19:51:12] fabriceflorin: one thing we might do from time to time is collecting questions from the communities, and ask them here, like we do for VE. [19:51:27] fabriceflorin: The pleasure is all mine. [19:52:14] James_F: Are there any questions you and I should discuss before I hand over the Beta Features torch to you as 'interim PM' until Nov. 19? [19:52:42] fabriceflorin: Don't think so - we're just pushing these on to be ready for 21 Nov, right? [19:53:02] Elitre: Good suggestion. Can you give an example of the types of questions we might ask? [19:53:14] James_F: Are you still going to be in Australia next month, by the way? :-) [19:53:28] Or a couple of months, rather. [19:53:30] Dmcdevit: Next month? Not until January. :-) [19:53:37] Dmcdevit: And yes - twice, in fact(!). [19:53:39] James_F: Yes, still on track for worldwide release of Beta Features on all wikis on Nov. 21. Keegan, I have asked folks to add links t [19:53:46] It's next month in their timezone, probably. [19:53:52] Dmcdevit: I'm there in the first week and also the last week of January. Fun. [19:53:58] fabriceflorin: Brilliant. [19:54:35] That'll be the fourth continent I've met you on. Too bad I didn't go to Buenos Aires or Alexandria or we could have collected them all. [19:54:54] James_F: (sorry for the typo) Keegam, Elitre and others have done a fantastic job letting people know that Beta Features are coming to their site, as shown in this release plan: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Beta_Features/Release_Plan [19:55:36] fabriceflorin: I meant, questions that come from non-English speaking wikis: we can collect them and then one of us can propose them here. [19:56:02] James_F: I recommend that we update that page with any new info, so that it can be our guide for a smooth deployment. Specically, I am encouraging Keegan and other community liaisons to add links to the discussions on each site in this section: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Beta_Features/Release_Plan#Sites [19:56:59] * James_F nods. [19:57:05] Elitre: Oh, that's a wonderful idea! Would you be willing to work with Keegan to prepare a few questions for the next IRC chat on 22 November at 18:00 UTC ? [19:57:28] fabriceflorin: I'll hear from Keegan and see what we can do :) [19:58:50] James_F: The other thing to do is to nudge Jon Robson to get everything ready next Tuesday, to make sure that he has everything ready for merging Typography for the Nov. 14 release on Mw.org -- we really want that feature to be out by the Nov. 21 release on all wikis, to flesh out the range of options. If he could get Nearby ready as well, that would be wonderful :) [19:59:00] Yup yup [20:00:21] Cool. Keegan and Elitre, be sure to let James_F know if there are any serious issues next week for the worldwide release on Nov. 21, as he will be assuming my duties as PM until I return from Hawaii on Nov. 19. [20:00:52] I think we're generally OK, thanks to all your fine work, but wanted to make sure you guys are in touch while I'm away. :) [20:01:30] Who's James_F? [20:01:32] * Keegan runs [20:01:48] oh I know who he is [20:01:58] I'm a nightmare of his [20:02:04] * Elitre evil laughs [20:02:37] Other than that, the most important thing would be to monitor the talk pages for Beta Features and Media Viewer on your sites, as well as here on MediaWiki.org: [20:02:38] Beta Features Discussion on Mw.org: [20:02:38] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:About_Beta_Features [20:02:39] Media Viewer Discussion on Mw.org: [20:02:40] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Multimedia/About_Media_Viewer [20:03:21] fabriceflorin: Enjoy your time in hawaii [20:03:50] Have a good vacation, fabriceflorin, I'll catch up with you when you get back [20:04:11] We now have over 320 Beta Features testers across MediaWiki.org, Commons and Meta. Woohoo! [20:04:37] Elitre, Keegan: He he, you guys are too funny :) [20:05:12] why is everybody going to Hawaii, except me? /me wonders [20:05:59] bawolff, Keegan, thanks for your good wishes :) We're going to the Big Island this time, can't wait to discover it. This is the first real vacation my wife and I have taken in over 3 years, so we're ready for it ... [20:06:15] OK, folks, gotta go now. Thanks again for everything!