[16:53:42] Hi Lharms [16:54:09] cndiv [17:04:29] can you post link to the slides, if any? [17:05:11] chip! [17:05:34] I'm on the link, working fine [17:05:37] not in hangout [17:05:52] did you hear that zeljkof? [17:05:56] When did we receive a link for the hangout? [17:06:05] * paravoid is here as well [17:06:13] hi paravoid! [17:06:16] rfarrand: sounds good to me :) [17:06:23] I'm on the youtube stream, sounds great. [17:06:37] two Rachel's: going to be confusing! :) [17:06:42] where is etherpad link? [17:07:07] Lharms, where is the hangout link? [17:07:09] no etherpad [17:07:18] I can forward it to you [17:07:20] Maggie [17:07:23] maybe we do, hold on [17:07:26] Thanks. :) [17:07:50] http://youtu.be/FB20K86wouk [17:08:31] etherpad: https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/currentmeeting [17:08:44] thank you [17:09:06] Maggie_Dennis Chip and Lynette should be sending out the hangout link again [17:09:21] Thanks. I don't show it in my email, but will look forward to it. [17:09:39] I added the JOIN link to the calendar invite. [17:09:47] here [17:09:50] (separate pads is usually a better idea, a bit lighter on the server side) [17:10:15] Thanks, cndiv. [17:10:23] Google is notorious for not actually sending the invite emails. Lynette for sure did it, I supervised :-) [17:10:47] paravoid, meganhernandez: can you guys join the hangout? [17:11:52] rfarrand: I wasn't really prepared for that, do you mind relaying until I figure it out? [17:12:07] sure, can you hear anything right now? [17:12:14] sure, youtube works just fine [17:12:20] ok - yes, no problem [17:12:33] I'd join the hangout. [17:12:34] I can't /see/ anyone but the slide [17:12:47] Coren: :) [17:12:54] paravoid: there's nothing more to see at the moment [17:13:00] paravoid that is all you should see :) [17:13:02] paravoid: that's Rachel's screenshare [17:13:02] O_O [17:13:09] ok [17:13:42] Does anyone know how far behind the stream is? Rachel asked for questions ~20 seconds ago. [17:14:07] just heard it [17:17:03] She wants y'all to speak up, fwiw, if you have questions. :) [17:18:20] I be done. [17:21:50] Hotels haven't always exceeded expectations. :) [17:21:58] haha TRUE [17:22:36] Those of you on the stream, can you read her writing? [17:22:50] it is challenging, cndiv [17:23:00] yes i can read it [17:23:09] if its in 720p [17:23:14] is the raw data going to be available? [17:23:20] i've got it maximized on a 23" monitor and have to strain to read [17:23:27] paravoid: yes it should be after the meeting [17:23:29] awjr: is it in 720p? [17:23:34] these results seem very processed compared to the questions asked, so I'm just wondering :) [17:23:55] i can read here [17:24:09] (I can read here too) [17:24:32] cndiv how can i tell? [17:25:36] I'm hearing Marc-Andre and someone else at the same time [17:25:41] I'm hearing 2 people talking at once [17:26:38] Cost of shipping photographic equipment (i have to pay out of pocket, which can be expensive) and get reimbursed later [17:26:39] seem to be having tech issues. we can not hear the hang out in the meeting room, we can only hear rachel speaking [17:27:11] we can hear maggie again [17:27:24] 1. having to convert expenses into USD and back again [17:27:25] before we were only hearing rachel remotely, for who knows why [17:27:41] waiting to see if we hear someone else other than maggie and rachel [17:28:43] I found the hotels pretty luxurious. [17:28:55] awjr: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/91449?hl=en [17:29:59] 1. involving humans (in a timezone 10 hours apart) for flight selection 2. travel at the last minute and all of the repercussions that has (echoing Marc-Andre), 3. using a spreadsheet that gets passed on from people to people (plus conversions, printouts etc.) instead of using a web app [17:30:06] the voices are repeating. [17:30:13] rfarrand or someone else, if you don't mind repeating [17:31:04] Yes, three huzzas for out support staf /during/ the travel ordeals. [17:31:13] paravoid: yup [17:31:24] thank you [17:31:49] I just heard the support staff comment [17:31:53] wow, I'm really lagging behind [17:32:53] yeah +1 whenever there is an emergency (or even a pain in the ass/annoyance) the response is great during the time [17:32:56] cndiv: that's for youtube; i'mi n the hangout - i dont see any way to check or adjust the video quality of other people's video [17:33:27] Why can people in the room not hear hangout participants? [17:33:32] no clue :( [17:33:32] wow super weird that the office can't hear some of the hangout folks! [17:33:46] * andrewbogott constantly surprised at how remote meetings don't work despite years of practice [17:33:48] yeah it's killing us over here. [17:33:50] it comes and goes [17:33:53] andrewbogott: yeah :) [17:34:10] awjr: try the wifi-looking-bars at the top of your hangout window. that's the video quality setting. [17:34:12] yeah, you would think that someone would create a system that would 'just work' .... and no one has [17:34:21] who is talking now? [17:34:23] that we can't hear? [17:34:32] +1 for egencia, that was basically point (1) [17:34:43] Jamesofur: as far as I know, there's no 'just work' system. [17:34:44] involving *humans* in general [17:34:45] * aharoni agrees with andrewbogott :) [17:34:54] cndiv: yup :) as far as I know too [17:34:57] paravoid: ah, gottcha [17:34:58] instead of just picking our own flights [17:35:13] cndiv: it's on 'auto hd', no idea if that means im getting it now :p the quality looks crisp and hd-ish, but it's still challenging to read the handwriting without working for it [17:35:15] everyone else can hear everyone else, right? [17:35:55] i can read the slides on youtube... [17:35:57] awjr: that's all we have, sorry. This is a screenshare of her screen, and we can't get rid of the grey border [17:35:59] the closest to 'just works' that I know is everyone actually calling on a line (which is one reason I don't use google hangouts when I can) [17:36:09] Jamesofur: like a phone? how 90s [17:36:23] it may be 90s but when it works better I don't care :P [17:36:27] i agree re callingon a line... [17:36:33] future for future's sake.... ;) [17:36:52] eyoung: hi! [17:37:01] * paravoid managed to join the hangout [17:37:05] I'm experimenting with WebRTC to see if there's a method of 'streaming' using that [17:37:09] Yes, premium economy on long trips. [17:37:11] (thank you rfarrand for echoing so far) [17:37:16] (>=8h) [17:37:26] * marktraceur gives cndiv a cookie [17:37:29] yes premium economy on flights over 5 hours! [17:37:36] paravoid: np, hope I am getting your points across correctly [17:37:36] no worries cndiv, not a big deal :) [17:37:44] marktraceur: have you ever seen a screenshare stream on webrtc? [17:37:56] I haven't; I can look at the docs though [17:38:00] per what arthur is saying - maybe it could come out of the 'wellness fund'? [17:38:01] rfarrand: you even corrected my english, so, yeah :P [17:38:11] marktraceur: I should make a webrtc research page on the office.wiki [17:38:36] agree on premium economy, though for 8+ hour trips I actually think that Business can be worth it at times (and at least should be a possibility for managers) especially when the amount of recovery time can often mean a day (or multiple days) extra hotel [17:39:02] I find per diem rates strange, for San Francisco it is 71 USD, for Turin (Italy) it is 171 [17:39:09] (Another thing I'd like discussed: supporting lodging flexibility, e.g. couch-surfing, airbnb, etc. There should be some kind of incentive to support travelers who save $ on lodging.) [17:39:17] sorting out visas well in advance, with local assistance [17:39:43] zeljkof: I blame the US Government [17:40:04] i was going to same the same airbnb comment [17:40:05] re biz class for really long flights should be up to manager --- esp. when you come in for a meeting and have no downtime.. [17:40:06] (e.g. I'm pretty sure that Sumanah usually couch-surfs when traveling, which saves lots of money but is pretty much just out of the goodness of her heart :) ) [17:40:19] cndiv: what is rachel using? is that just photoshop with a touchscreen? [17:40:31] i don't know if we're allowed to book on airbnb, but i think i heard we're not supposed to. i [17:40:42] awjr: I've been wondering that too, I don't think it is Photoshop though. [17:40:45] im curious because i've been dying for a whiteboard replacement for remote participation mtgs [17:41:05] awjr: There's a few interface buttons on the bottom left that suggest it isn't photoshop. I'd be interested to know what it is too, though. [17:41:11] there are, as far as I know, insurance issues (including on airbnb's side, the insurance you get from them is iirc null if you are traveling for work reasons or something like that) [17:41:13] Krinkle: yeah, i have no idea what photoshop actually looks like these days; i just see the filename in the top ends in .psd :p [17:41:18] awjr: chip is out of the room for a sec [17:41:19] On events like Wikimania I'd like to stay with the volunteers from around the world. [17:41:31] awjr: before I saw here first draw something I was going to ask which font it is, it's quite a nice handwriting :-) [17:41:34] exactly eyoung, I know it's expensive (and price is ALWAYS part of the equation) but when you add in the work you get done, the extra days hotel etc etc the difference in price gets smaller [17:41:41] That's the most important part of these events for me. I care less about the quality of the hotel. [17:41:43] awjr: I'm not sure what's she's using [17:41:47] you will have that opportunity re staying with volunteers in London- we'll be in the same hotel-- everyone! [17:41:58] looks like nobody can hear me talk in the hangout :( [17:42:03] :( [17:42:09] OK all, I'm off to help out a different meeting! rfarrand and Lharms are still here to help. [17:42:11] zeljkof: you appaer to be on mute [17:42:33] awjr: I made sure to unmute myself when trying to talk [17:42:40] a travel app for iPhone/android [17:42:46] oh heh sorry zeljkof [17:42:49] awjr: I am on mute now, since nobody can hear my anyway :) [17:42:52] :p [17:43:26] rfarrand: economy plus/premium on flights over 3 hours! [17:43:37] big +1 for airbnb or couchsurfing [17:43:48] premium economy very different then E+ lol [17:43:58] Jamesofur: really? [17:44:01] yeah [17:44:04] what's the dif? [17:44:12] i thought it was jsut the same thing wiht a different name on different airlines [17:44:27] E+ is really just a bit of extra leg room and is mostly just US airlines [17:44:40] premium economy is a whole different class in between Y and B [17:44:46] I wouldn't *mind* >3h as a limit, but >7h seems more different. :-) [17:44:59] Re wikimania staying with volunteers that is an option! [17:45:00] reasonable* [17:45:30] those per diem rates are set by the us govt. [17:45:35] Coren: heh yeah, i figured i'd ask for more and leave room for negotiation :p [17:45:44] * Coren chuckles. [17:45:54] victorgrigas: yeah, but we choose to use them, if there were better ways to calculate (I do not know if there are or how tough) we could [17:45:54] anything else? [17:46:04] LOL awjr [17:46:13] victorgrigas: I know about per diem rates, I just find them strange, I did not notice Turin being so more expensive than SFž [17:46:19] I don't think the point is "major events" so much as "thing we know six months in advance shouldn't be blanned two weeks before departure" :-) [17:46:27] heheh [17:48:17] seems like half of our problems could be just solved with using a travel system rather than spreadsheets [17:48:27] shocking :P [17:48:29] what are these travel systems? [17:49:19] thanks rfarrand :) [17:49:37] 24" tablet! [17:49:38] dang! [17:49:42] niiice [17:49:54] there's a few proprietary ones, I think Concur has one (that I haven't used), but at my previous job we just wrote a simple webapp [17:50:29] rfarrand: edsanders: An example of where the expense spreadsheet was prepared was during Wikimania (at least I remember that happening in 2011 or 2012). Basically the per diem calculation was already filled from the governement chart for that location, it also pre-drew the date range and which meals were provided. [17:51:16] among individual teams I also sense the habit of having 1 person do it first and then the rest will base theirs on that person's spreadsheet (changing what needs to be changed of course) [17:51:34] having that done on a larger scale would save even more duplication :) [17:52:46] I don't understand the grouping. Legroom would make things more expensive. "Airbnb" and "Staying with volunteers on Wikimania" would make things cheaper. [17:52:59] Aha, now it changed. [17:53:10] aharoni: it's also hotel v flight [17:53:26] i'd stay at a dive if I can get more legroom ! [17:53:33] \o/ amen [17:53:38] eyoung: +1 [17:54:04] (though I generally prefer a bit wider seat over a lot more leg room, it all helps though) [17:54:14] anything missing? [17:54:29] yes - notice how people are asking for costlier flights and cheaper lodging :) [17:54:43] (the yes was to eyoung) [17:55:23] agree with whoever said that! [17:55:29] maggie :) [17:55:36] yes, maggie [17:55:39] just stating a fact from the chart :) [17:56:22] wrapping up: anything that has not been addressed? [17:56:39] rfarrand: One thing I'd like to reiterate, maybe a bit paranoia, but .. [17:56:40] I have a couple of questions [17:56:46] rfarrand and Lharms, everything going OK up there? [17:56:49] can laundry be expensed? [17:56:52] we balance flights to avoid a "wiki plane", encouraging that with hotels might be good too [17:56:53] Julie will be there in a moment. [17:57:08] and buying local sim cards, or internet in the airports [17:57:14] though I can see advantages in group bookings, so just observing, nothing critical. [17:58:28] cndiv: yup [17:58:35] also julie is here [17:58:37] all i can say is that i need a SAFE hotel for all the camera equipment [17:58:42] one more [17:58:53] but it doenst need to be luxurious [17:58:56] rfarrand: remember that someone needs to click the 'end stream' (or whatever) button at the end of the meeting [17:59:01] (I have to go - I'm leading a meeting in a few minutes. :)) [17:59:03] Victor: let's talk about what would be SAFE.... [17:59:09] you may have to press command-+ to make it large enough to see [17:59:14] for hotel breakfast and/or staff meals, low-carb options would be great [18:00:17] cndiv everything is good, Julie is here :) [18:00:39] there would be problems if staff allowed to opt out of contracted hotel because off the attrition clauses in thos contracts-- will cost WMF. [18:02:00] kudos again to the travel staff! [18:02:26] * marktraceur blinks [18:02:30] Was this not the ECT meeting? [18:02:39] Thanks eyoung [18:03:08] thanks everyone! [18:03:13] marktraceur: it was not :) it was the travel meeting [18:03:14] also call for adding anything [18:03:15] marktraceur this was the remote travel forum [18:03:21] *last call for adding anything [18:03:22] ...wat [18:03:24] it appears possibly that no one changed the topic [18:03:28] You guys didn't schedule [18:03:33] And ECT was scheduled here for this time slot [18:03:44] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours [18:04:30] Thanks for the nice meeting all :) [18:04:34] I hope you OK'd that with qgil et al. [18:04:38] sorry marktraceur we didn't know you had to schedule [18:04:42] but we will be sure to do so in the future [18:05:42] Thanks everyone for participating in the travel forum!!! [18:05:43] Lharms: No big deal, as it appears they aren't raising a stink [18:05:50] But it did mean that I had the wrong topic set for you :) [18:06:09] yes, maybe you can show me how to set a topic at some point marktraceur [18:06:31] Lharms: /topic something useful | something else | Please note: channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE). | https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours [18:06:41] awesome, thanks! marktraceur [18:06:45] Yarp [18:32:01] thanks for running that meeting rfarrand and Lharms [18:32:12] hope it went alright after I had to run :-) [18:41:58] cndiv: all was good, thanks chip [22:18:28] marktraceur: https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=IRC_office_hours&diff=0&oldid=6295653 but no corresponding links to the logs? :-( [22:20:59] I didn't know where the logs were [22:21:04] I was just tearing things out [22:21:20] :-( [22:21:45] Last I checked, wm-bot was logging everything but the office hours themselves [22:21:50] So I just kinda went with it