[01:14:10] * marktraceur shakes fist at arrbee [18:52:48] Hello all! [18:53:00] Metrics will be starting up in a few minutes here (roughly 8, but maybe up to ten) [18:53:20] I'm not the IRC czar today, I hear rumours that Jamesofur|away is playing that role [18:53:30] So please hilight him if you have questions [18:53:37] The stream link is in the topic as always [18:56:01] marktraceur: is there a non-plus link? just a youtube link? [18:56:06] what's with the "Are you going to watch? [18:56:08] " [18:56:14] greg-g: No, Google's fucked everything [18:56:41] Jamesofur: QUESTION: Can we please switch away from Google Plus? kthx. [18:57:24] Reminder, the stream link is at https://plus.google.com/events/crqoknckp6413o74bglvk72h6a0 [18:57:30] * legoktm votes for youtube [18:57:33] Second reminder, bother Jamesofur with your questions! [18:57:35] greg-g: I wish, but we can't avoid it :( [18:57:43] yes we can [18:57:50] * aude actually around [18:58:01] ahh the youtube link yes [18:58:06] * Jamesofur gets youtube link [18:58:07] happy to just watch [18:58:19] (actually I think the youtube link only exists once we've started, so will post here asap) [18:58:21] Jamesofur: There is no youtube link, only Zuul^WGoogle Plus [18:58:22] we can also just stop using google for email and using a social network to do work things ;) [18:58:44] "just" I like the way you think, greg-g [18:58:50] Last month it was possible to get the youtube link after the stream started [18:59:03] aye, I think bd808 is correct [18:59:08] Oh, hm [18:59:12] when it starts live streaming the youtube link gets created [18:59:13] marktraceur: we already manage way more email traffic via lists.wikimedia.org, no reason we can't for @wikimedia.org email addresses [18:59:16] #preachestochoir [18:59:50] google has turned out to be a significantly better email system then the (which we DID run) especially since most people pushed it into their personal gmails anyway (which causes it's own issues) [18:59:55] or, at the very least, is there a way of telling G+ to use the whole window for the stream instead of using less than half for it and the rest for Robert's accoount? :P [19:00:04] greg-g: Be careful, you'll get yourself transferred to ITOPS [19:00:08] Jamesofur: can you share the youtube link when you find it? [19:00:11] yup [19:00:17] definitely will [19:00:25] \m/ [19:01:33] starting up in a sec [19:01:44] Question: the new streaming link is on plus.google.com not youtube? [19:01:46] just confirming :) [19:01:47] Starting...now! [19:01:54] brion: Seems like [19:02:04] would it make sense to actually start the stream a few minutes early - even with muted mikes - to ensure the link can be sent out, and youtube ca sych up for everyone? (For next time) [19:02:10] brion asked my question [19:02:13] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD6Tn07FxD0 [19:02:15] ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD6Tn07FxD0 [19:02:16] greg-g: ^ [19:02:41] Thanks legoktm and brion [19:02:54] ty [19:02:57] I'm getting error occurred/please stand by [19:03:00] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD6Tn07FxD0 [19:03:10] please stand by is normal [19:03:13] \o/ [19:03:26] moiz! [19:03:41] get ready for my name to be pronounced [19:03:55] Bence: That's not a bad idea, I'll bring it up to Chip after the meeting for next time [19:04:05] More better [19:04:25] bence: that seems to be what happened [19:04:30] as it is still on stand by [19:04:46] the stream has started for me [19:04:54] it takes for youtube to roll out globally [19:05:00] aye, it should be going, if you aren't seeing it please refresh [19:05:06] I'm still standing by [19:05:07] not for me, just refreshed [19:05:08] that is why it makes sense to start the stream early [19:05:23] * sumanah refreshes, still gets error/Please Stand By [19:05:33] oh [19:05:34] there we go [19:05:35] https://plus.google.com/events/crqoknckp6413o74bglvk72h6a0 works [19:05:42] also it usually doesn't auto-start until I refresh, at least for me [19:05:43] odd... [19:06:01] * aude only so good with this google technology though :) [19:06:05] yeah, the refresh makes sense (not preferable but makes sense) it shouldn't require it longer though [19:06:07] some (experimental) livetweeting today: https://twitter.com/Wikimedia [19:06:12] agh i've got errors now [19:06:16] Hi Bence :) OIT would like to know why you'd like them to start the stream early. [19:06:18] * bd808 lost audio :( [19:06:32] AnnaKoval: So that we have a youtube link from the start [19:06:41] and because the first couple minutes always cause errors [19:06:57] @Jamesofurseems like it! [19:07:03] ok i can load the youtube link only in chrome. sigh [19:07:25] brion: what were you trying earlier? [19:07:35] I have it in firefox, though I do have the html5 editor enabled which could have an effect [19:07:53] yup, works in Chrome now [19:07:54] Jamesofur: firefox, where i'm logged in with both google accounts (personal gmail primary) [19:07:59] in chrome i'm wikimedia-only [19:08:15] this is on the plug.google or youtube link? [19:08:21] either [19:08:29] I'm on 3 google accounts (one with 2 youtube accounts) on chrome but only the one on firefox [19:08:31] hmmm [19:08:44] I'm running metrics. Tell me what's up with the audio, please? [19:08:47] Andrew Otto from Analytics on talking about logging now [19:08:57] Jamesofur: are there audio issues? [19:09:03] cndiv: not here [19:09:06] audio is fine [19:09:07] audio is good for me [19:09:09] better than ever [19:09:09] cndiv: Not that I've heard yet, there were streaming issues [19:09:18] 2014-01-09 - 11:06:18 * bd808 lost audio :( [19:09:22] ok good stuff [19:09:29] marktraceur: wonder if that's his side [19:09:31] ahh there is one sorry [19:09:35] bd808: still having issues? [19:10:09] Yes. I can't get video now either. Probably on my end somehow [19:10:20] We're having a Metrics meeting viewing hangout. [19:10:27] (I can confirm Fx not getting video, but chromium does) [19:10:32] Please let me know your G+ email address for an invitation :) [19:10:47] siebrand: you mean you're re-broadcasting the meeting? [19:11:03] cndiv: No, we have a hangout where we can watch the metrics meeting together. [19:11:13] cndiv: You're in SF "we're" in th ehangout. [19:11:13] so meta [19:11:13] siebrand: oh interesting [19:11:28] ok back to it [19:11:32] let me know if there are troubles [19:11:34] thanks [19:11:54] there's a bit of echo now [19:12:09] ottomata: how do we get access to run queries on Hive [19:12:09] (with andrew) [19:12:09] ? [19:12:16] not always mismatched, sometimes I consult things in other languages on purpose… [19:12:18] cndiv: echo [19:12:28] woooo mobile apps [19:12:30] halfak joined. Yay! :) [19:12:33] :) [19:12:34] not everyone on the internet is uni-lingual ;) [19:12:47] StevenW: as I understand it, hive is (at the moment) a bit...hard to use (I was alpha testing it a couple of months back) [19:13:06] this is a bit of a teaser -- we're still productizing it [19:13:07] I browse simple.wikipedia.org, but first I switch my accept-language header to "simple" [19:13:08] StevenW, you can get access, just submit an RT request for access to analytics machines to use hadoop [19:13:13] but you get access by getting howie as your manager and the analytics team to sign off on it, basically, through an RT request (same as the SQL slaves, or..) [19:13:14] snap [19:13:19] but, that comes with the caveat that it is not productionized yet [19:13:23] you can play with it [19:13:26] but don't rely on it yet :p [19:13:27] totally [19:13:27] it's fun to play with [19:13:31] Yeah I'd love to test it out [19:13:50] let's make it happen [19:13:51] tnegrin: I spend a month working on taking the request logs and generating granular UA data and you don't mention varnishkafka being this far along why? ;p [19:14:05] marktraceur: does "simple" have an ISO langcode? [19:14:07] For those that didn't catch it this is a Mobile apps update from Kenan, a bit out of order because of a meeting [19:14:21] marcoil: no [19:14:26] Thanks James :) [19:14:27] * bd808 gives up and goes to eat lunch instead [19:14:29] (just wondering) [19:14:30] Ironholds: honestly -- it just kind of came together over the break -- I wouldn't want you to wait on it [19:14:42] tnegrin: kk. Any chance this means we can get better than a 1:1000 ratio? [19:14:43] how's the video coming through? [19:14:44] yay "other languages"! [19:14:45] marcoil: doesn't stop me trying [19:14:49] yep [19:14:53] a lot of the data we really don't need, which should reduce volume and frequency [19:14:55] marcoil: to label it correctly, it might be something like en-x-simple; afaik no *proper* full code for it [19:14:59] marktraceur: :D [19:14:59] "saved page" makes it seems like it just saved an edit. [19:15:07] Ironholds: totally -- _but_ it's just for mobile [19:15:11] Ironholds: this is unsampled [19:15:14] ragesoss: good point, we should clarify the language on that [19:15:14] yay "saved pages" [19:15:14] yeah just for mobile data right now [19:15:16] Yeah interface copy could use some work there. [19:15:18] marcoil: yeah, it's a pseudo code to allow us to have the url but iso wise it's still 'en' [19:15:19] ottomata, wait, seriously? [19:15:21] nice! [19:15:26] yeah, so [19:15:27] that query i showed [19:15:31] was run on 24 hours of data [19:15:34] especially since we're adding editing too :D [19:15:35] * Ironholds giggles in glee at the prospect of unsampled data [19:15:35] unsampled mobile data [19:15:39] about 260GB uncompressed [19:15:46] returned in 10 mins [19:15:47] yeah the video goes on for another minute, stop it whenever ;) [19:15:54] ottomata, so, in case you haven't heard, guess what I've been working on while you guys have been working on varnishkafka, completely ignorant of your work? [19:16:03] oh noooooo the other video isn't working [19:16:04] darn [19:16:08] we google drive! [19:16:08] good thing we had two :D [19:16:12] weee* [19:16:17] Ironholds: what?! [19:16:37] a series of filters to break down requests into actual requests rather than requests-for-weird-bits-of-mediawiki and then break it down by namespace, project, project language, API-or-not, edit-request-or-not, and then unique UA [19:16:51] on the sampled data, while going "man, I wish I had more data than this" ;p [19:16:58] Next up is Stephen Walling with a Growth Team update on article creation research and draft namespace [19:17:00] so, this is...sympatico, I guess. [19:17:07] can someone give me those dates again for mobile releases? [19:17:12] Jamesofur: Steven* :P [19:17:24] yes, damn spellcheck ;) [19:17:26] Jan 31 greg-g I believe I heard [19:17:30] yeah, Ironholds, there is a lot of incomplete work in hadoop for what you are trying to do too [19:17:31] ummm [19:17:33] there were two, I thought [19:17:33] Question for Kenan: If I pull the Wikipedia app from the android store right now, will I get the version you are demoing? [19:17:35] brion: ^ [19:17:40] at least, real pageviews, ua classification,e tc. [19:17:42] brion: release dates? what were they? [19:17:43] greg-g: mid to late february iirc [19:17:52] what were the things? [19:17:56] ottomata, cool! Mine is...broadly-speaking, done [19:17:57] greg-g: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1hcCEygGvtSAqcWDMbP2RZrhivo11wY9PDkOt6RbWouA/edit?usp=sharing [19:17:58] * greg-g didn't get it written down in time [19:18:04] thanks marcoil [19:18:08] broadly as in "it needs a lot of refinement and to be paralellised, but works" [19:18:43] Ironholds: [19:18:43] https://github.com/wikimedia/kraken/tree/master/kraken-generic/src/main/java/org/wikimedia/analytics/kraken/pageview [19:18:46] what's kenan's irc nick? [19:18:49] ottomata, ta [19:19:12] greg-g: i believe just 'kenanwang' [19:19:39] simple, I like [19:19:52] aye, that's what the contact list says as well [19:19:56] ottomata, that'll need a lot of tweaking. Want me to submit some patches and try working on it at my end? [19:20:08] I don't know Java, but I know aaaall the weird exceptions and use cases here ;p [19:20:45] and the syntax looks relatively familiar. [19:20:59] What's the survival % of published drafts? [19:21:10] (or is that 100% by default?) [19:21:28] siebrand, I'd be cautious to interpret this data at all given that Draft: isn't prominently advertised anywhere yet, AFAIK [19:21:30] Ironholds: reach out to Christian -- he's working on the page view definitions -- it's likely we will not use the kraken codebase [19:21:43] okie-dokes. What are the other options being explored? [19:21:58] java UDFs [19:22:04] aha [19:22:20] and then just build it into hadoop and make it poke-able? [19:22:54] basically we want to write some fundamentals in java which allows hive and/or other tools to access them [19:23:01] *nods* [19:23:07] StevenW: For when you're back quick question from siebrand about survival rate [19:23:15] siebrand: don't know yet, but I can find out. :) [19:23:16] I know...most of those words. Anyway, we should have this conversation in meatspace or another channel to avoid hogging p [19:23:19] k [19:23:22] Monthly research showcase is next wednesday [19:23:23] thanks [19:23:26] (though Erik gave a good warning about how much it's being used) [19:24:24] Jamesofur: I can talk about the survival metric. [19:24:34] perfect! [19:24:37] Ironholds: kk [19:24:48] siebrand: Looks like halfak is your man [19:25:23] Jamesofur: Ah, he's in the same hangout at the moment :) [19:25:34] well that's not fair! [19:25:39] We want to hear! :P [19:25:49] * Jamesofur feels left out [19:26:03] "IT WORKS, well, not anymore" [19:27:03] the real time is my favorite thing with the new system [19:27:11] the 24 hour thing really annoyed me [19:27:57] we did find an edge case where searching with accented characters yields slightly different results than previous search, but it's still really nice. it was fun working CirrusSearch on beta labs [19:28:19] oooooo I didn't even realize we are doing searchable pdf etc [19:28:25] chrismcmahon: I'm actually getting around to fix that [19:28:34] YAYAYAY PDF & DJVU search!! [19:28:36] manybubbles: you rawk :-) [19:28:42] this is so great! [19:28:49] in case this isn't answered by the end: does this mean a just-uploaded file on Commons will show up in VisualEditor right away? [19:28:54] I am loving so much of the news in today's meeting [19:29:04] Hi Sumanah! :) Glad you're back! [19:29:06] CirrusSearch was the first extension to be hosted on beta labs before production release [19:29:17] hi MissGayle! :) Glad to see you [19:29:27] ragesoss: if it doesn't then it is a bug [19:29:31] so yes [19:29:34] from a commons standpoint, an important thing in relation to search is if under the new search regime will searching for toothbrush, still return a photo of a woman shoving a toothbrush in her hoo-hoo? [19:30:01] russavia, it will return an image of YOU [19:30:18] if they are categorized... probably [19:30:26] russavia: I think you can answer that by turning on the new search in Beta Features? [19:30:27] manybubbles: and that should be working as soon as it hits en.wiki, I take it? [19:30:29] Use Commons search results as a replacement for a mirror when you're brushing? [19:30:30] well eloquence, i've never used a toothbrush, a gerbil..sure...but never a toothbrush [19:30:38] tmi [19:30:44] :) [19:30:44] * Jamesofur hides [19:31:05] ragesoss: it won't hit enwiki as the default backend for a while [19:31:13] getting a nasty fatal exception for search on mw.org right now [19:31:15] [84b31246] 2014-01-09 19:31:01: Fatal exception of type MWException [19:31:17] 1.5-2.5 monthsish [19:31:19] bleh [19:31:22] https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?search=user+agents&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=1 [19:31:26] StevenW, intelligence search is what we were after [19:31:26] Oh, good, it's project wide [19:31:30] Eloquence: the iOS video should work now (if set to 720p it looks nice): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzrhW8TFc_0NZjlGSUhiYm1PQ3c/edit?usp=sharing [19:31:35] marktraceur: what?! [19:31:35] DarTar: its everything [19:31:49] manybubbles: that's "soon" to my mind. :) [19:31:57] greg-g: To ops! [19:32:04] ragesoss: Just talked to Chad, he says that's one of the reasons they fixed the 24 hour thing [19:32:06] because of VE [19:32:07] ouch [19:32:46] someone tell chad to get on irc :) [19:32:49] what was the 24 hour thing? [19:33:00] marktraceur: ^ [19:33:10] Bence: the old search engine only updates the index every 24 hours [19:33:16] greg-g: It's a Parser error I thought? [19:33:24] and that meant something like VE couldn't find files right away either [19:33:29] Oh, he join ops [19:33:30] marktraceur: maybe :) [19:33:37] I see, thanks [19:34:13] so to answer the question russavia [19:34:15] [the new system will do it much faster generally in seconds to minutes] [19:34:27] https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?search=toothbrush&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=1 with new search gives a bunch of categories/pages as the first 5-10 results [19:34:50] The Metrics meeting viewing party in Hangout is still open. Please provide me with your Google+ email address in a PM for an invitation. Currently there are pginer, halfak , aharoni and I. [19:34:57] while old search gives page "Toothbrush" and then images, not including the nude ones of old [19:35:59] StevenW: it isn't really that different [19:36:19] Is the tasks over time graph cumulative? [19:36:29] the GCI contributors were more competent and professional than we expected, it was nice [19:36:37] manybubbles: really? Everything above the fold in new search is a page or a category. [19:36:41] that's quite different [19:36:41] halfak: Seems like yes [19:37:43] wordcloud! [19:37:56] chrismcmahon: how was it compared to GSoC? [19:38:44] Jamesofur: it's kind of apples and oranges to GSoC. the GCI tasks were of a much smaller scope than the GSoC projects. [19:38:55] Jamesofur: and the age of the participants very different also [19:39:15] aye, that's why I asked tbh [19:39:32] CodeIn was awesome. [19:39:39] I look forward to public Lessons learned from GCI [19:40:06] if they were still totally apples/oranges that's fine but I wondered if we felt it was as useful/more useful etc (part of me can say the smaller projects may actually be more) [19:41:55] Jamesofur: we had a couple of contributors do some really great work. one in particular was very highly motivated, and zeljkof was a great mentor for him [19:42:05] perfect [19:42:12] hopefully we can keep him/them [19:43:02] Jamesofur: another spent far longer than he needed on a task and turned in work much more sophisticated than we expected. again, I can't say enough about zeljkof mentoring, that was a key factor in the successes. [19:43:42] Jamesofur, chrismcmahon: code-in was a lot of fun but also a lot of work :) [19:44:09] mentoring in general is a huge deal, it is a lot of work but is also the key to succeeding and getting people to stay so \o/ zeljkof [19:44:34] what did those guys work on? [19:45:45] Do we have a specific latency goal? I think I missed that [19:45:56] "This page intentionally left blank." [19:46:14] Jamesofur: browser test automation using Cucumber and Ruby, Jenkins configuration were standouts. Also documentation. zeljkof, what else? [19:46:30] sumanah: until we get down below a second, probably just "Faster, since we're getting slower" [19:46:35] chrismcmahon, Jamesofur: I think that is it [19:46:40] YAY DOCUMENTATION AND TESTS \o/ [19:46:41] I like learning stuff from Ori [19:46:55] MissGayle: that's not fair, you just like learning stuff in general [19:46:59] though he IS a good teacher :) [19:47:01] * sumanah agrees with MissGayle [19:47:10] * heatherw also [19:47:13] That IS true :) [19:47:47] Jamesofur: thanks for your endorsement! :-) [19:48:10] very :D [19:48:48] :D [19:48:54] * sumanah applauds [19:49:02] We need more ways to reward mentoring in the Foundation [19:49:13] I'm open to ideas [19:49:40] MissGayle: I'll think about that and try to give you ideas [19:49:46] pie in the sky too [19:49:56] Yeah for Ori for saving so many lifetimes, 1 second per view times so many billion views per month adds up big time. [19:50:37] just one point -- if fewer searches are being done maybe it's because people found what they were looking for in an earlier search (with 30 results instead of 10) [19:51:37] russavia: I think they would not measure "get page 2" as a second search [19:52:14] Bravo ori. Point well made. [19:52:20] +1 [19:52:23] ori: best one of these I've seen :) [19:52:42] Katy up for an FDC update now :) [19:52:43] Who is Katy? What is this round 1 thing which is done? [19:52:49] good presentation ori [19:52:49] How is babby formed? [19:52:58] actually I think they were really focused but much less stressed then earlier [19:53:21] Katy Love presenting on the Funds Dissemination Committee :-) [19:53:28] which gives annual grants to Wikimedia affiliates [19:53:42] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/User:KLove_(WMF) ;) [19:54:44] I love the "SALE!" star graphic ;) [19:54:52] hmm... I wonder if we remitted donations into the local currency (if we predicted how much a grant was likely to be) if we could save a ton on forex fees [19:55:02] or if that would cost too much to manage [19:55:04] greg-g: ACTUAL SIZE! [19:55:29] mwalker: I know, from at least past discussions, that has been discussed for some things like Euros but that for lots of other currencies finance wasn't sure it was worth the overhead [19:55:40] *nods* we do actually do it for euro [19:55:49] granted last time i talked about it was a while ago [19:55:52] up next is Siko with an update on the Individual Engagement Grants round that just finished (round 2 ) [19:55:59] Individual Engagement Grants support Wikimedians to complete projects that benefit the Wikimedia movement. Our focus is on experimentation for online impact. [19:56:46] Are we running like 10 min late/over? (I have a thing that is supposed to start at the hour mark) [19:57:45] I think we are, yes, sumanah [19:57:46] sumanah, yeah, I think I'll still take Fabrice until Siko goes really long [19:57:55] s/until/unless/ [19:58:10] ok, will delay my other thing [19:58:24] Is the metrics and activities meeting concluded? [19:58:29] not yet [19:58:39] still going on, see topic [19:59:09] Great stuff, ori, StevenW! [19:59:36] Sorry, not a regular on IRC, and I just joined. Didn't know "topic" is in upper-left corner. Thanks, Erik! [19:59:42] np [19:59:58] Yayyyyy Gadgets compatibility! This is great. Crosswiki gadgets-related coordination is a super-needed thing [20:00:02] +1 [20:01:36] YAG+R (Yet Another G+ Rant): Boy I can't wait to watch "Miley Cyrus - Get It Right & Wrecking Ball - New Year's Rockin' Eve " after this! [20:02:18] greg-g, G+ really understands you and cares about you on a personal level [20:02:32] Eloquence: :P [20:02:48] ah it's the TPS report [20:02:54] * greg-g will shut up when we switch away ;) [20:02:56] Who is currently speaking on the YouTube stream? [20:03:03] This is Siko Bouterse [20:03:09] greg-g, it is your fault for not allowing google to monitor all your habits [20:03:09] greg-g: it wants me to watch minions [20:03:18] greg-g: I look forward to listening to you for years to come :) [20:03:24] She organizes the Individual Engagement Grants and, I think, Travel Support [20:03:24] * Jamesofur ducks [20:03:27] greg-g, evidently we're all pinging you [20:03:31] greg-g, this is a fun game [20:03:36] * greg-g feels loved [20:03:41] hey greg-g [20:03:46] how abotu we now ping Ironholds next? [20:03:51] Eloquence, you talking to greg-g? [20:04:24] youtube is way better, next up is a Sherlock mini-episode [20:04:28] greg-g: ^^ [20:04:33] Last up, Fabrice talking about the Multimedia vision for the next couple years [20:04:42] marcoil: I got that one, too! [20:04:55] G+ really does now Wikimedians [20:05:01] Sherlock and Miley Cyrus [20:05:12] *know [20:05:39] no Thomas the train, which is surprising given my current youtube history [20:05:50] lol [20:06:06] greg-g: anomie and another person caused me to learn of Dinosaur Train [20:06:31] are you showing your kid copyrighted videos on youtube!? Horrible an shocking :D [20:06:42] what are you training him! To be a PIRATE!? [20:06:58] Yaharr [20:07:02] I find the idea of "Wiki Loves Birds" heartwarming :) [20:07:08] to be fair they may like that [20:07:19] Jamesofur: from the videos we watch: "I do not own Thomas The Tank Engine! It is owned by HIT Entertainment and this video does not make or intend to make a profit." [20:07:24] :) [20:07:37] greg-g: yeah, I like how they think that helps lol [20:07:40] Aw, cute, they think that matters [20:07:42] :) [20:07:54] well, it can be a factor [20:08:02] just not on youtube ;p [20:08:06] Speaking of copyvio, let's commit it on the youtube stream! [20:08:17] do not cross go, do not avoid having your life's assets stolen for looking at hollywood funny [20:08:29] my favourite video on youtube is "This video is not available in your country" [20:08:30] it can be a factor if they get sued money wise etc but yeah, not in culpability. [20:08:47] marktraceur: :) is PBS very litigious? [20:08:48] marktraceur: we already got Chip temp banned that way lets not get Robert banned :P [20:08:58] Jamesofur: Ah you're no fun [20:09:01] this is a great, understandable, and IMO inspiring vision for the future of multimedia at WMF, thank you Fabrice [20:09:16]