[18:31:27] That may be inaccurate. [18:32:23] rdwrer: Thanks! :-) [18:33:16] The stream link looks wrong though [18:33:38] Not to mention the wiki link. [18:34:36] I'll fix it later [18:42:03] hmm - the stream links takes me to a previously recorded event [18:43:13] McDawg: Yeah, will fix soon [18:43:30] cool - thanks [18:48:22] May want to change that Stream: link in the channel -- that's a January 16 session :) [18:51:07] thanks ragesoss [18:51:56] * JeanFred waves [18:52:09] * fuzheado high fives JeanFred [18:52:25] Good morning everyone [18:52:35] hello [18:52:50] yo [18:52:52] * greg-g waves [18:53:12] Ohai world [18:53:48] The meeting will start at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLZB-yd7g98 for those waiting [18:54:29] Thanks Jamesofur [18:54:35] spaces are hard [18:56:04] the office feels emptier then usual today, I blame Eloquence missing [18:56:13] and sickness [18:56:41] Jamesofur: You think Eloquence takes up a quarter of the office? :-) [18:57:01] no, just that he isn't here so easy to blame :) [18:57:20] * James_F grins. [18:57:41] That's the spirit, Jamesofur [18:57:51] "The important this is to assign blame." [18:58:00] James_F: Microsoft Employees Fondly Remember Days When CEOs Were So Big They Took Up Entire Rooms http://www.theonion.com/articles/microsoft-employees-fondly-remember-days-when-ceos,35172/ [18:58:15] heh [18:58:26] LOL [18:58:59] For those that haven't seen yet the rought agenda is up at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Metrics_and_activities_meetings [18:59:24] Oh, well, I guess I wasn't actually hired then. :P [19:00:48] (still hasn't started, right?) [19:00:59] greg-g: Not yet. [19:01:18] James_F: that was the first lesson philippe taught me [19:01:47] :( [19:01:51] the irony is that Philippe is pretty bad at it [19:02:03] he usually blames himself to protect his team [19:02:22] (at least publicly) [19:03:38] greg-g: Time-honoured traditions and all that. [19:04:22] Oh zeljkof − thought of you earlier, having spent a few hours this afternoon moving my Watir tests to PageObjects, and using the MediaWiki CirrusSearch repo as an example :p [19:04:56] sorry for the delay folks, we're about to start [19:04:56] JeanFred: manybubbles1 actually wrote all the code there :) [19:05:04] what'd I do? [19:05:15] ah [19:05:20] yeah, Cirrus's tests [19:05:30] and starting with Gayle [19:05:33] manybubbles1: exactly [19:05:43] I'm not proud of some parts but it works [19:05:55] I don't get much time to clean up stuff. [19:05:58] zeljkof: Hmmm, I may have seen your gravatar pop up in the config or somewhere ; but thanks to manybubbles1 then :) [19:06:53] lots of new interns this month [19:06:54] And we are LIVE [19:06:55] Anyone set up a hangout backchannel for remote participants yet? [19:06:56] damn start of the year [19:07:21] JeanFred: I did probably touch a file here and there [19:07:27] Official welcome to Sam Smith (phuedx), our new growth engineer! [19:07:37] yay new 401k committee members \o/ [19:07:37] o/ [19:07:41] hullo eeryone [19:07:46] *everyone [19:08:00] who is live? I think I'm having trouble keeping up [19:08:10] no youtube for me [19:08:10] manybubbles1: right now Gayle is talking [19:08:18] matanya: giving any errors? [19:08:20] manybubbles1: youtube link is working for me [19:08:29] just please stand by [19:08:33] try reloading, it worked for me [19:08:38] Now moving to Howie with stats [19:08:43] Hangout created for remote watchers. PM for URL [19:08:52] no for me :/ [19:08:56] stream just got to anniversaries [19:09:02] no stream yet [19:09:03] chrismcmahon: congratulations on two year anniversary :) [19:09:06] i'm still in "please stand by" [19:09:11] bd808: almost missed it [19:09:13] halfak: doesn't that only support a small number of participants? [19:09:15] stream is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLZB-yd7g98 [19:09:15] brion: refresh the page [19:09:18] zeljkof: thanks! [19:09:19] sigh [19:09:25] "please stand by" still [19:09:26] marcoil, it will, but we usually only have a few. [19:09:26] matanya: brion: have you tried a force refresh (shift/refresh) it seems most are getting it atm... [19:09:28] ME: Please stand by [19:09:36] * fuzheado sees same as brion [19:09:39] * phuedx goes to get a cupcake [19:09:42] Jamesofur: no change, still 'please stand by' [19:09:45] tried, not working Jamesofur [19:09:58] * halfak is watching the stream successfully. [19:10:05] httpseverywhere made it not work for me [19:10:05] hmmm, we have 36 viewers... so it's clearly working :-/ [19:10:06] * phuedx isn't [19:10:06] ;) [19:10:10] it's working in chrome where I'm logged in with only WMF account [19:10:17] is it locked to some users only? or hates firefox? :) [19:10:52] brion: it works for me on chrome not logged in but let me try firefox [19:11:08] works only on chrome :/ [19:11:18] hmmm, working on FF for me :-/ [19:11:28] both logged in on non WMF account and in private tab [19:11:35] grrrr [19:11:48] Where are remote people up to? [19:11:49] * brion submits to the "try multiple browsers" method of troubleshooting [19:11:57] "monthly page views" graph [19:12:10] yup that's what is up now live [19:12:12] James_F: Traffic slides just started [19:12:17] whee [19:12:24] damn Firefox 27 :-) [19:12:28] bd808: Hmm. Lots behind, then. [19:12:29] my apologies fort the issues, we were hoping that the youtube link early would solve that... clearly not somehow [19:12:53] James_F: no… same as brion [19:12:56] *live just changed to unique visitors* [19:12:58] what's the difference between slide 2 and 9? Both have Monthly Page Views as the title [19:13:05] (for those wanting to know how synced they are) [19:13:12] thanks JeanFred [19:13:16] thanks Jamesofur [19:13:17] that is [19:13:19] bd808: Maybe 60s behind? [19:13:42] Yup [19:13:46] http://reportcard.wmflabs.org/graphs/unique_visitors [19:13:52] just changed slide [19:13:54] * JeanFred does not mind being thanked though [19:14:09] * fuzheado will gladly thank JeanFred anyplace anytime [19:14:31] I created a backchannel hangout for remote watchers. PM for URL [19:14:44] If it makes sense, wonder what DarTar thinks of the Google Knowledge Graph theory… and whether it's sucking away pageviews [19:14:45] fuzheado: 9 is bots vs humans [19:14:58] 2 is project breakdown [19:15:08] Jamesofur: thanks! Plants vs zombies… bots vs humans [19:15:24] heh [19:15:29] I could see that game [19:15:39] Google Knowledge Graph started mid 2012, about when that curve started to dip [19:15:50] i second this question [19:16:38] (grah, library wifi making the yt video stutter) [19:17:22] +1 session metrics For the Science [19:17:48] Questions for the metrics people? [19:18:00] Howie asking the KG question [19:18:06] Thanks! [19:18:33] 'right now we do not see any real data internally to show that, but want more info from ourselves and from Google who has offered to work with us' [19:19:22] moving to Maryana on Flow [19:19:24] I wonder -- what data internal to WMF could show that? [19:20:15] fuzheado: I'm not sure but if you want to reach out to Dario/Toby they could probably help, I know they are talking to Google to get info about what actually happens when people get a KG frame [19:20:35] Good Q fuzheado. It's hard to reason about traffic that doesn't make it to us. [19:20:49] Yeah, I'd think Google'd have to be the ones to drive that discovery [19:20:57] Wikiproject breakfast…that's awesome. [19:21:00] Slides From Dario and Toby at https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1cv0TjA45McKQsuU8MY-CvyeeJy8TmQNXhY7JXQEUa2I/preview?usp=sharing&sle=true&slide=id.g2b06efb09_028 [19:21:08] fuxheado, there's some things that we can do with session metrics. [19:21:18] The problem is that we look at page views as a big counter right now. [19:21:58] If we understood the user behavior that made up those page views (e.g. session metrics) then we can use that to understand more about what type of page view sessions are declining. [19:22:02] And the newbie is using VE! :D [19:22:09] does flow require a unified global account? [19:22:10] Yup. [19:22:22] Is that your student, fuzheado? [19:22:30] matanya: no it doesn't [19:22:32] Flow is also at this test page! Please use this for any *random* tests, not the WikiProject pages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Flow/Developer_test_page Thanks :) [19:22:34] halfak: +1 [19:22:43] ragesoss: who are you referring to? Sorry i have no video [19:23:02] Carmen, who joined WikiProject Breakfast [19:23:04] fuzheado, :) Happy to talk more about measurement strategies offline. [19:23:05] and at mediawiki: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Sandbox [19:23:44] and of course for daredevils who live dangerously, beta labs: http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Talk:Flow_QA [19:24:02] chrismcmahon: it doesn't work well in RTL :) [19:24:18] the whitespace comment seems more akin to the fixed width discussion ;) [19:24:19] matanya: awesome, file a bug! [19:24:25] if this presentation could be less "funny" and more informative... [19:25:27] Any questions for Maryana? [19:25:49] Jamesofur: does it have connection to global account? [19:25:59] i.e. one global talk page? [19:26:11] will ask matanya [19:26:13] instead of each wiki itself [19:26:26] "nothing on IRC" [19:26:34] how far behind are we? [19:26:41] Yeah... we need to get better about this delay. [19:26:44] Probably about a minute [19:26:50] It's hard to be second class. [19:27:05] How well does the back-to-wiki-pages script work? :-) [19:27:20] in case Flow breaks badly and people need to revert [19:27:20] matanya: afaik it has nothing to do with global talk. [19:27:30] too bad :/ [19:27:43] matanya: Maryana says no it does not, Jorm says there may be a bug and they need to talk [19:27:52] thank you [19:27:59] twkozlowski: it just dumps the wikitext in a semi-sane format [19:28:03] so "it works" [19:28:35] twkozlowski, currently by request to the devs. They have a working script for it. 24 hrs expected turnaround. [19:28:53] bay-ta James_F. You're in 'merica, you say bay-ta. [19:29:02] amen [19:29:16] Incorrect. :( [19:29:19] haha BETA of BEETA [19:29:20] quiddity: It was tested? :) [19:29:25] yup [19:29:34] Jamesofur: templates? [19:29:55] matanya: for Flow or for References? [19:30:05] Jamesofur: VE [19:30:09] * Jamesofur nods [19:30:10] YESSSSSSS reference adder that'll use the right templates? yes yes yes yes yes [19:30:12] will ask [19:30:34] the majority of the VE team aren't in America, so beeeta [19:30:46] there is an isbn registry per country, iirc [19:30:52] let's just be glad we don't have to argue over pronunciation of letter Z [19:30:59] certainly the uk and the us don't share one [19:31:09] edsanders: are you saying that everyone else in the world says beeeta? [19:31:17] "On Beyond Zebra!" [19:31:23] that is a painful point [19:31:28] RTL!!! [19:31:38] ateeeeb [19:31:56] Cool to see custom reference flows (cite web/cite book/etc.) coming to VisualEditor. [19:32:15] awe, page is sad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Book_Number [19:32:39] Uploading images without leaving edit − you mean, just like https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Add_Media_Wizard 4 years ago :p [19:32:47] failed to parse unknown function!?! [19:33:25] matanya: did you hear response? [19:33:29] yes [19:33:33] cool [19:33:39] i will chase James_F on this one [19:33:40] beeeeeta! [19:33:41] JeanFred, we already have an add media dialog [19:33:42] trust me [19:33:43] * Jamesofur nods [19:33:47] good :) [19:33:51] JeanFred, we mean _upload_ as well [19:34:21] JeanFred, yeah, besides being unmaintained and limited to one feature, that doesn't seem to have any upload support. [19:34:30] edsanders: AddMediWizard had upload too back then [19:34:31] Q: Is this magic implemented through a Labs tool, and if not, where can I read about it? [19:34:39] Q: Just out of curiosity. [19:34:49] this magic = references [19:34:57] Well, modulo the very true facts superm401 mentions ;) [19:34:59] I like to watch this streaming of this meeting... greetings from The Netherlands [19:34:59] asking [19:35:12] (We used to have a tool that looked this up through a Toolserver.org tool afaik) [19:35:26] Server error when I tried to go to the English Wikipedia to take a look. Oops. [19:35:46] twkozlowski: did you hear that? [19:35:55] reak magic :) [19:35:57] Yes. [19:35:59] *real [19:36:03] edsanders: I did not mean to be dismissive of this amazing work though, for sure ;) [19:36:14] SERVERS DOWN, MONTHLY METRICS IS KILLING WIKIPEDIA [19:36:26] That mental image alone though was worth it…Asaf doing interpretive dance. :) [19:36:29] JAMES KILLED WIKIPEDIA [19:36:35] James_F: you will need to back this template promise [19:36:46] Well, or the deploy is going wrong [19:37:07] I hope nobody's doing a live demo.... [19:37:21] rdwrer: the deploy going wrong does not exclude the fact that it could still be James killing Wikipedia [19:37:31] Truth [19:37:46] twkozlowski: Clearly it's my fault, yes. :-) [19:37:59] Wikimania scholarship deadline this month! Feb 17th! [19:38:12] James_F: it's always you're fault, unless someone gives me enough cookies for me to shoulder the blame [19:38:38] James_F: how do you know what James I meant :) [19:38:57] ;) [19:39:01] matanya: Of course. {{cite web|foo=}} vs. {{Dyf_gwe}} vs. {{Цитат_уеб}} and all the alternatives. [19:39:10] mwalker: * your [19:39:15] http://wikimania2014.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships for the Scholarships (though the servers are crying so may have to try a couple times) [19:39:22] Will the Foundation be able to take the role as Fiscal sponsors due to this increased capacity? That would be real support to the grantees. [19:39:35] https://scholarships.wikimedia.org/apply [19:39:38] Pretty slide is hard to read. [19:39:43] James_F: ah; yes -- I speak me some good engrish [19:39:56] and in RTL James_F ! [19:40:02] Which is the $350 grant? [19:40:13] matanya: Of course. We have a native Hebrew speaker on the team. We'd never forget RTL. :-) [19:40:38] Ainali: I'm not completely sure what that means but I will put it on my list to try and ask [19:40:44] I assume they will :) [19:41:04] Jamesofur: Thanks! [19:41:55] superm401: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Build_an_effective_method_of_publicity_in_PRChina [19:42:07] Thanks J-Mo [19:42:09] J-Mo, ah, I looked at that a little before. [19:42:11] Thank you [19:42:55] np. Also, I think Addis gave the money back. IIRC, he didn't end up needing the cash as much as the guidance/mentorship :) [19:43:40] ah, I misspoke. it was meta:Grants/IEG/Replay_Edits [19:47:33] Ainali: it looks like we didn't have time for questions on that, do you want me to have someone email you? [19:48:28] Jamesofur: Thanks, I'll email Asaf directly, we are sort of in a conversation already, but the hiring was news to me. [19:49:14] great [19:51:15] Questions on the Evaluation presentation? [19:51:51] Q: Something else than a Google+ page for those of us that don't have it? [19:52:16] twkozlowski: I guess you could use the Meta portal [19:53:26] To participate in the Hangout you will have to have the Google+ anyway? [19:53:43] Or you can watch the hangout on YouTube [19:53:53] It's important to remember Commons is an important project we're curating in itself. [19:53:58] twkozlowski: aye, and that link should be posted on the Meta portal as well as on their other pages [19:54:06] Using content on other projects is great, but not required. [19:54:31] so G+, FB, and then last place Meta? hm :-( [19:55:06] 's a brave new social world I guess [19:55:25] superm401: yeah, I think they made it a bit unclear, but I think they meant that in that particular case program leaders were actually looking for usage on other projects [19:56:04] oh no :-( [19:56:24] now you either re-write that new brochure again or don't include new features into VE! [19:56:28] haha :-) [19:56:32] The question EVERYONE is asking : where is Puzzly in this new brochure ? :p [19:56:50] https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Thank_You_All [19:56:52] and by everyone you mean?..... /ducks/ [19:57:12] JeanFred: Right!? I just won't feel informed if a guy with a puzzle piece head is educating me. [19:57:16] I love Puzzly. [19:57:42] I won't name any names, but I'll say that Puzzly got vetoed from higher up the chain of authority. [19:57:54] I prefer Rory, I'm just sayin [19:58:22] Jamesofur: Yeah, but Rory has a troubled past when it comes to fair use images [19:58:31] That tiger just doesn't get copyright law. [19:58:32] twkozlowski: the VE section doesn't go into any detail about specifics of using it. [19:58:44] because the point of VE is to be self-explanatory. [19:58:44] ragesoss: good :-) [19:58:50] j/k [19:58:53] (and if it's not, then it's not done yet) [19:59:35] rdwrer: lol, oh? I've never seen any issue with what he's uploaded :) [19:59:41] Ukraine is green but not Belarus? [20:00:04] ragesoss: How shameful ! Glad that Puzzly made it into the Commons brochure :p [20:00:28] twkozlowski: is that a question that you wanted asked? (should they both be?) [20:00:43] Yes; if anything, fix the map :) [20:00:57] kk :) [20:01:13] will alert them either in question time or after [20:01:34] Q: What's up with that South African (?) school campaign for free mobile access to Wikipedia? [20:01:38] Ainali: speaking from my temporary role as helping out the program eval team, i am the one who sets up the hangouts for them, and we us the exact same hangouts on air feature (so stream to youtube) that you are watching this meeting with [20:02:15] so no g+ account required, twkozlowski [20:02:34] \o/ yay [20:02:37] ldavis: Yeah, so just to watch you are fine, but to actually hangout it is needed? [20:03:12] we use the q&a feature that's embedded in there [20:03:20] rather than irc back channel [20:03:26] but it's essentially the same [20:03:37] it's a text q&a thing that youtube does [20:03:38] embeded where ldavis? On youtube? [20:03:42] you can type in a question on the youtube stream [20:03:43] yes [20:03:54] hmm, do you need a google+ account like you need to leave youtube comments? [20:04:01] since their change [20:04:02] that's a good question [20:04:04] i'm not sure [20:04:08] How does the Wikipedia Zero team verify that people actually aren't being charged? [20:04:14] my guess is yes but haven't used that specific project [20:05:30] Livetweeting WMF #WMFMetrics is hard :p [20:08:05] superm401: I think it works roughly like this: [20:08:16] 1. carrier provides free access [20:08:28] 2. carrier charges us based on the pageview numbers we present [20:09:04] milimetric: we do not pay [20:09:14] (anything to the carrier) [20:09:15] superm401: milimetric: the carrier decides how to bill their data traffic based on IP address or URL (deep packet inspection) [20:09:21] then we trust the carrier to do it right [20:09:24] My understanding was it's an outreach program for us and a loss leader program for the carriers. [20:09:33] and maybe occasionally somebody tests it to verify it works and complains if it doesn't [20:09:54] You're correct superm401, a lot of them use it as part of their 'good for the community' stuff [20:10:08] The other ide that helps is that we show banners about how it's free based on IP [20:10:12] i'd rather they just lowered data rates altogether to help all web sites [20:10:19] and so if someone sees that and DOES get charged they are likely to whine quickly [20:10:19] per-site rate changes violate network neutrality [20:10:24] ok, all done for the day! [20:10:27] Thank yo ueveryone for coming [20:10:38] Right, it's also Good Thing the carrier can note they're doing. [20:10:53] bye everyone [20:11:02] bye office people! enjoy your lunch [20:11:04] I'm going to be heading in to grab lunch but will be online for a while, if you want to PM me questions that you were unable to ask (and your username if not obvious) I will make sure they get passed along [20:11:41] someone better have my cupcake [20:11:48] Thanks everyone for the meeting :) Bye! [20:12:56] Thanks to all the presenters. [21:00:33] superm401: jgonera gave me a heads up that a question arose during the metrics meeting. at a basic level, ZeroRatedMobileExtension tries to rewrite external links such that when users tap/click on a link while browsing from a partner network (ips of partner network provided by partners as part of the contract establishment and ongoing maintenance) they are presented with an interstitial to warn them that they're about to leave the site. does [21:00:33] make sense? i could give you a short demo if you like [21:00:47] superm401, if i'm not around, yurik can help, too [21:01:06] dr0ptp4kt, no, my question was how you audit that the WP0 pages are actually free. [21:01:19] ldavis ^ and ^^ and ^^^^^^^ [21:01:54] superm401, we don't - partners tell us that info :) [21:02:48] superm401, oh, i see. you probably want to email carolynne schloeder about anything of that nature. [21:02:53] the only way to really check it would be to have a phone that is constantly moved around the country and checks against wiki [21:08:32] tfinc: i don't think any of those ios bugs have been resolved