[17:59:51] Hey everyone. [17:59:58] I'll be doing IRC today, as normal. [18:00:00] hi James [18:00:08] hey hey [18:00:43] * greg-g waves [18:01:19] (I'll also be presenting, briefly, during which time AnnaKoval will be IRCing.) [18:01:42] :) [18:01:58] cooperation FTW [18:02:13] <3 [18:03:14] Theoretically the youtube feed will be at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot9rqWOTeeU [18:03:30] bd808: No, it changed. It's now http://youtu.be/RWSwfCFpsGA [18:03:38] bd808: Hence why I removed it from the /topic :-) [18:04:10] * bd808 goes back to lurking quietly [18:04:26] bd808: Sorry for the confusion. [18:04:38] no worries. [18:05:06] I suppose good day then James_F and AnnaKoval :) [18:05:18] Video now starting from our end. [18:05:27] Shout when you get it. [18:05:35] Got it [18:05:40] just did [18:05:41] yay [18:05:42] got it [18:05:45] got video [18:05:46] Excellent. [18:05:59] there's a squiggle on the screen [18:06:04] does anyone else see a squiggle? [18:06:09] now you can't see it because it is white [18:06:10] Thanks, everyone. About 60 seconds on delay. [18:06:41] cndiv: ^^ re squiggle [18:07:06] I've always wanted a mini-me [18:07:08] thanks JohnLewis :) good day to you too [18:07:35] Erik's caused the meeting to descend into giggles. [18:08:07] Erik is a funny man! :) I do love Geoff's images around the office. They make me giggle a lot. [18:08:12] stream... ? [18:08:19] thedj: http://youtu.be/RWSwfCFpsGA per /topic [18:08:27] me too MissGayle ;) [18:08:43] ah then someone tweeted the wrong url [18:09:03] SQUIGGLE ON ERIK'S HEAD [18:09:06] :) [18:09:16] was wondering if I was the only one seeing it :) [18:09:31] thedj: It changed because Google's services sometimes just do that. [18:09:33] greg-g, that is a fascinating comment to walk into the room to.... [18:10:00] hi Maggie_Dennis :) [18:10:03] * halfak waits for the view to change back [18:10:25] Maggie_Dennis: :) :) [18:11:15] "L" [18:11:20] thedj: Tilman or someone else beat me, the right url is tweeted now [18:11:33] jamesofur, HaeB: Thank you! [18:11:59] (Please, everyone shout questions as and when you have them.) [18:12:49] James_F: Will the squiggle be a permanent fixture of the Metrics meetings, moving around to new locations with differen colors and such? [18:13:02] kannada [18:13:05] greg-g: We don't know what the squiggle is, so… :-) [18:13:11] my mothertongue :) [18:13:14] James_F: Yes. I'll take that as a yes. [18:13:15] greg-g, I can print out a tilde on a stick [18:13:20] * James_F chooses to blame Google. [18:13:20] and move it around [18:13:30] mwalker: that'd be ideal, yes. [18:13:32] that squiggle is the weirdest glitch I've ever seen [18:13:57] are we sure it's a software problem and not just something on the camera? [18:14:00] Next we're going to have an update on the Growth team from Steven W. [18:14:18] marcoil: It doesn't look like anything is on the camera here… [18:14:37] it only appears on the camera, not when slides are shown [18:15:37] victorgrigas, marcoil et al: OIT says it's a google thing. and they can't troubleshoot it during the livestream. sorry. :] [18:15:47] For those asking about the squiggle: it's a video artifact that just appeared. We have a really complex video setup, and cannot troubleshoot it now. [18:16:02] AnnaKoval, cndiv: thanks for the info! [18:16:10] ^ ftr that was supposed to be a grin not a smile :\ [18:16:33] np marcoil hth :) [18:16:34] thanks [18:16:37] I don't know if it's Google, if it's the camcorder, if it's the blackmagic box, if it's any related driver, if it's a cable, etc. [18:16:56] hoping it disappears as quickly as it appeared. [18:17:00] black magic sounds suspicious [18:17:16] pixies! [18:17:18] or someone who just drew an L in the software on April 1 and left it there .... hm [18:17:27] Eloquence_: not only is it BlackMagic, it's "BlackMagic Intensity Extreme" - possibly the best product name ever. [18:17:51] everything is better with "Extreme" tacked onto it [18:17:59] blackmagic maybe or it could be the legal interns who mocked up geoff's pictures ;) [18:19:10] Fun figure for getting a sense of the split between wikis: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Distribution_of_newly_registered_users.english_vs_other_wikis.svg [18:19:11] We should design Extreme Visual Editor, and Extreme Flow, and oooh...Extreme HR. [18:19:14] any ideas to making it easier to build these "getting started" tours ? [18:19:25] long term [18:19:33] we should switch to "WhiteMagic Calm Moderate" [18:19:33] James_f: ^ [18:19:43] thedj's Q [18:19:54] halfak: Yes, waiting for questions. [18:20:04] Just wanted to make sure you saw it :) [18:20:06] James_F: thx [18:20:11] thedj: have you done any tour-making? [18:21:04] no, with easier i mostly mean 'more distributed' and thus also easy (not too technical) [18:21:12] now that i think of it :) [18:21:18] * James_F grins. [18:23:04] thedj: I agree with those objectives. I've found it pretty painful to build tours, but do-able (for someone with extremely limited fluency in javascript). [18:23:37] i'm just worried that we are in need of having a professional tech team to build guided tours long term, and that doesn't fully seem sane [18:23:47] non-registered :D [18:23:51] but doing things in a way that is easy to port and modify, and really separate content from code, would be nice. [18:24:04] ragesoss: exactly [18:24:18] MIC! [18:24:20] ty [18:24:41] thedj: yeah, I agree... except that it's not really necessary to have professionals do the development... it's technically less complex than a whole lot of the Lua modules that volunteers have made. [18:24:46] The squiggle is admittedly hilarious. It looks at this point like somebody's trying to highlight Steven Walling's sideburns. :) [18:24:53] but it's not nearly as accessible as writing a Lua module. [18:24:55] ragesoss, we are in the process of improving the API. [18:25:19] I think we can also do more to teach people the ropes once that's done. [18:25:25] The experiment I have designed for the anonymous editor signup CTAs will help us understand whether we are scaring people away. [18:25:25] halfak: By the time you shout that the person will have finished speaking, and also is not on IRC. :-) [18:25:52] James_F, better than not saying anything [18:25:56] have we ever looked into creating an alternative to ip addresses for the anonymous edits? then allowing only the trusted people to do reverse lookup and ban IPs? or is the publication of the IPs the whole point to deter vandalism? [18:26:23] dr0ptp4kt, I don't see how that is different than an account. [18:26:27] dr0ptp4kt: Yes, and no. [18:26:41] e.g. register an account with a randomly generated username and use that to edit. [18:26:51] halfak: but without having to do that step :) [18:27:18] just: have unique strings that aren't IPs, that checkuser can get around [18:27:25] there has been talk of anonymous auto accounts (edits in a session become associated with a random number) [18:27:40] Current Wikipedians need an ID to track vandal activity [18:27:51] e.g. 4 warning rule of thumb. [18:28:10] How do we know we hit 4 warnings unless there is a semi-persistent identifier of most anons. [18:28:15] ^? [18:28:40] halfak: a unique string we create based on ip [18:28:42] halfak: most anon vandal warnings are put on IP talk pages [18:28:50] currently, anyway [18:28:52] greg-g: +1 could do that. [18:28:53] halfak, the idea is it would be persistent but not expose the ID [18:29:02] How would we track the user though? Cookie? [18:29:16] halfak: however we do it now [18:29:19] The user could then just keep dumping the cookie to vandalize [18:29:21] halfak, or could be a hash of the IP or something. [18:29:27] +1 hash of the IP [18:29:27] halfak: we use an IP block [18:29:40] With a reverse mapping stored for checkuser, etc. [18:29:44] I think that's a really interesting solution. [18:29:52] Oh yeah. No dumping checkuser. [18:29:54] Of course, would be very complex, and the main downside is it means regular users can't report anon abuse. [18:30:09] * greg-g nods [18:30:12] But someone told me that isn't done very much. [18:30:30] superm401, that hash would be consistent in the same way that the IP would. [18:30:35] No practical difference there. [18:30:43] Basically we don't currently block IPs on anything other than their IP. [18:30:48] halfak, I know, I'm talking about regular users. [18:30:52] halfak: it's pseudoanonymity [18:30:55] Getting their IP to report abuse to the ISP/school/employer [18:31:03] do the regular users go look at arin/afrinic/apnic, etc.? if they reported a hash, would that be sufficient? [18:31:10] with is one step up from public IP :) [18:31:14] Next up is… me? [18:31:17] dr0ptp4kt, yeah, that's the question, how much it's actually done. [18:31:17] s/with/which/ [18:31:53] is this something that would have a trace in the DB? I could find out how often users without checkuser right report abuse then. [18:31:54] Wait, are we talking about hasing user IP publically facing? [18:31:58] Extreme Visual Editor. [18:32:05] JohnLewis, yes, I think so. [18:32:17] halfak, no, because we're not talking about reporting it on Wikipedia. [18:32:19] i suppose we don't know in practice unless cc'd. if we act as an intermediary or are cc'd commonly, i suppose that provides some insight on report to isps. [18:32:28] haha MissGayle :) [18:32:36] We're talking about User:Foo sees 1.2.3.4 vandalize, so reports to 1.2.3.4's ISP. [18:32:37] beat-a-labs [18:32:46] cscott: :) [18:32:47] superm401, gotcha [18:32:56] so, we'd need a checkuser to do that. [18:32:57] halfak, Foo might note they did so on-wiki, but not always, and not necessarily in a way easy to detect by script. [18:33:09] cscott indeed :) [18:33:10] halfak, or whatever right is deemed appropriate (e.g. admin?) [18:33:23] Yeah... might not need checkuser to check an anon's IP. [18:33:28] Well, I say a firm no to hashing user IPs. While anon reporting may not be much - I myself deal with user IPs quite a bit for spambots and general work, asking a CU for every small task is annoying and will pretty much defeat the point of using it for 'emergency' cases only. [18:33:30] But checking a reg. user IP... [18:34:01] And it's a question whether we want this, or whether it's a good disincentive to anon editing like dr0ptp4kt asked. [18:34:03] JohnLewis, You'd still be able to ident the user by the hash in the same way as the IP [18:34:16] halfak: Fair enough then [18:34:30] ... standing by for questions for James_F if there are any ... [18:34:31] JohnLewis, yeah, it would only affect you if you use their IP to report abuse to their ISP [18:34:37] But you couldn't figure out the city or ISP of the user. [18:34:42] dido sotiriou ? nice :-) [18:35:10] James_F: How has the feedback for VE been lately ? Has the team been getting enough since they went back into beta mode ? [18:35:20] halfak: Proxy checking n stuff requires the raw IP anyway - so that'll be a serious disadvantage unless resolved otherwise. [18:35:48] True, and even just tagging talk pages as {{belongs to school}} or whatever. [18:35:54] thedj i'll ask :) [18:37:14] hey kat :) [18:37:25] why is their a white worm thing on the screen... [18:37:52] Matrix anomaly [18:37:53] thedj did that answer your question? :) [18:38:08] AnnaKoval, still is with stream lag [18:38:27] thx [18:38:40] thedj np :) [18:38:44] jamesofur, that's how you know the NSA is listening [18:39:31] halfak lol ;) [18:39:41] JohnLewis: the proxy checking thing, you're referring to the ability to tell on wiki as a CU it was going through a certain proxy, right? or are you referring to app server back-endy things like X-Forwarded-For and so on? or are you talking about proxies even for non CU policing? [18:40:01] halfak: given who/what we are, they're always listening ;) [18:40:03] or some combination or something else :) [18:40:10] * James_F returns. [18:41:05] :) [18:41:08] Now moving on to Ori and Erik B. talking about Flow and HHVM. [18:41:08] dr0ptp4kt: I'm talking about just using the IP to run common checks on the IP to see if it pings back as a web host, open proxy, mail server etc plus the ability to go to the IP and see if it is running a webserver and what content is there. That stuff really [18:41:13] Well, hopefully moving. :-) [18:41:58] JohnLewis: gota ya. in other words what a non-privileged user could do for policing, primarily, right? [18:42:27] (that is, assuming CUs could do reverse lookups on the hash) [18:43:00] James_F, does/will the feature also support constructions? These are particularly hard to edit usually because you often have to switch between sections to find the original tag. [18:43:26] pajz: Yes, re-use of references is already supported. [18:43:40] lol, any questions :) [18:43:47] dr0ptp4kt: Basically yes but without getting a CU involved like is possible now. Having to go through a middle man really would defeat the ability for the community whom are not the 'content' guys to do what they do which in this case for me, is dealing technical aspects of IPs and identify them. [18:44:10] pajz: This, BTW, is an example of why doing "section editing" right is very hard, because we need to know a bunch of things about the whole page. [18:44:17] HHVM -- catching PHP up to smalltalk80 [18:44:23] JohnLewis: yeah, i got you [18:44:30] cscott: :) [18:44:30] that is, i understand [18:44:53] The problem is that it's really, really hard to automate the tasks that a checkuser does when they're doing their job. [18:45:02] who is the second person talk after ori? [18:45:06] *talking [18:45:13] erik bernhardson [18:45:18] ah, k [18:45:22] thanks [18:45:39] James_F, right. Thanks. [18:46:32] marcoil: http://webpages.charter.net/allanms/popl84.pdf -- it was smalltalk-80, but it was the 1984 implementation of the language. so i was being 4 years too cruel. ;) [18:48:16] "stuck in the iframe" would be a great song title [18:48:37] ^ +1 [18:48:50] Question: when will we see HHVM in production? [18:48:58] cscott: '84 technologies are the far future in most programming practice :P [18:49:12] Stuck in the iframe - New single from the Wikimedia Foundation Engineering Team! :p [18:49:19] ragesoss: Being answered now, I think. [18:49:29] :) [18:49:36] James_F: Do you plan to work on adaptation of the VisualEditor for sister projects like Wikisource in the comming months? [18:49:57] I figured I take a guess and what might not get answered, in case it didn't get answered by the time the video caught up with the office. [18:50:07] Tpt: Not immediately, but it's something we're interested in, of course. [18:50:34] James_F: Ok. I'll be pleased to help for Wikisource [18:50:39] Tpt: So far we're deployed on Wikibooks, Wiktionary, Wikimedia (chapter) and Wikiversity wikis without needing any changes. [18:50:46] woot, scribunto. (meaning luasandbox, presumably?) [18:50:47] Questions about HHVM? [18:50:51] cscott: Yes. [18:51:56] Now a quick update about FDC. [18:51:57] hey, if you need more help porting luasandbox i could probably donate some of my Copious Free Time (tm). [18:52:21] cscott: I think Tim-away is mostly done with it, but… :-) [18:52:25] although i'm more likely to port the v8js extension ;) [18:53:21] James_F: if there was anything specific about an estimated timeframe of when HHVM might be ready to actually use in production, I missed it. [18:53:47] ragesoss: I know the answer. :) [18:53:57] is it secret? [18:53:58] ragesoss: Oh, sorry. Ori said (paraphrasing) "we don't know when it'll be ready; we have to get Lua and other things working first". [18:54:06] ragesoss: I.e. "No.". [18:54:19] cool, thanks. [18:54:19] ragesoss: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/HHVM [18:54:44] ragesoss: last i heard there were also some patches they were waiting to get merged upstream, and some packaging issues they were working with distro upstream on. [18:54:45] ragesoss: It's not known when it will be deployed. It's in the early stages. The big task right now is to get it so that you can use Beta Labs on either Zend or HHVM depending on a cookie in your browser. [18:55:00] ragesoss: Once that's done, it'll be easier for the team to estimate how long it will take to adapt HHVM for production. [18:55:02] ragesoss: so the timeframe is not entirely within wmf's control [18:55:27] thanks, all. that's super helpful. [18:56:19] The big selling point, imo, is that HHVM in general speed up on *all* actions for anyone who's logged in. [18:56:32] And also general speed up on anyone that edits, logged in or not. [18:59:46] And now to Sue. [19:01:30] got the squiggle off her face :-) [19:01:44] I have! [19:01:46] Yes! [19:01:52] I still see a squiggle. [19:01:55] Humph. [19:02:39] Can someone link to the page that Sue is referencing? [19:03:24] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/Wikimedia_Foundation/Proposal_form#Basic_information [19:03:51] (I still see it, too) [19:04:00] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/Wikimedia_Foundation/Proposal_form [19:05:40] Thanks Poore5 [19:09:33] Here is the talk page of the WMF annual plan proposal. Some good questions and answers already. But I'm interested in hearing more comments and questions. [19:09:39] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:APG/Proposals/2013-2014_round2/Wikimedia_Foundation/Proposal_form [19:11:03] wow, bradon eich resigned [19:11:25] brendan eich [19:12:52] What?! [19:13:58] https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/03/brendan-eich-steps-down-as-mozilla-ceo/ [19:14:10] oh wow [19:14:29] :| [19:15:14] had to happen, while I personally have been doing a "I just can't get worked up, he lost his battle and I can't hold a grudge that long" thing their board HAD to know this would be an issue (or didn't do it's due diligence) :-/ [19:15:57] clearly the solution is for us to do more blackouts [19:16:12] jamesofur, ref to battle you're referring to? [19:16:40] halfak: Him donating money to anti gay marriage (and specifically Prop 8) causes [19:16:49] lame [19:16:55] thanks [19:17:16] hey, focus on the presentation ;) [19:17:32] * halfak snaps to attention [19:19:06] * James_F grins. [19:19:14] I'm surprised he lasted this long. [19:19:18] (But yes, focus.) [19:19:41] * mwalker is gobsmacked... where in the heck are we going to get the money for 40 additional staff members [19:19:52] bitcoin !!!11 [19:20:11] dogecoin [19:20:13] you mean [19:20:14] We're going to start mining it with our /extra servers/ [19:20:24] :) [19:20:33] yeah, we are going to mine something like 0.00001 in 10 days :-) [19:20:48] we will put it in our app [19:20:52] and mine off all our users [19:21:05] That's what pmtpa will be used for now. [19:21:40] I like YuviPanda's idea. The community will love it even more! [19:21:46] akosiaris: Just need to find people to work for 0.000009125 :p [19:21:59] also nicely pocket warming [19:22:12] indeed. [19:22:17] MIC! [19:22:25] :( [19:23:12] Decrease on desktop, increase on mobile? Interesting.. [19:24:41] have we considered ideas for cooperating with the more outreach type projects that seem to generate a lot of visibility ? [19:25:07] dangerious to mix fun with 'getting money' perhaps, but is less web and more real world on the map ? [19:25:44] who went from 90 to 900? i missed the org quim mentioned [19:25:55] he didn't say [19:25:58] k [19:25:59] but... mozilla? [19:26:13] which technically, MoCo did, not MoFo [19:28:27] Thank you everyone. [19:28:37] Video will be posted to Commons soon. [19:29:02] thanks! [19:29:11] thanks! [19:29:16] James_F: points to sue for those last comments [19:43:27] Attention y'all: The free software advocacy group will be hosting another meeting in here in about 15 minutes [19:43:55] I failed to schedule it, but luckily nobody else is using this time slot [20:00:06] #startmeeting WMF FSAG meeting #2 [20:00:06] Meeting started Thu Apr 3 20:00:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is marktraceur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. [20:00:06] Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. [20:00:06] The meeting name has been set to 'wmf_fsag_meeting__2' [20:00:14] #link https://office.wikimedia.org/wiki/Free_software_advocacy_group [20:00:21] #link https://office.wikimedia.org/wiki/Free_software_advocacy_group/Meetings/2014-04-03 [20:00:26] #link http://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/fsag-2014-04-03 [20:00:50] Good afternoon everyone, and welcome to the "wow we're still around" meeting of the WMF Free Software Advocacy Group [20:01:23] I'd like to briefly mention our agenda for the day, which includes a follow-up on videoconf software, a first look at document collaboration, and then some chat about training sessiosn. [20:01:25] * greg-g waves [20:01:27] sessions, even. [20:01:46] I'm your host today, greg-g is my lovely assistant as ever [20:01:51] * greg-g bows [20:01:55] Let's jump in. [20:02:00] #topic Video conferencing [20:02:11] #link https://office.wikimedia.org/wiki/Free_software_advocacy_group/Video_conferencing [20:02:26] Video conferencing was the bulk of our meeting last time, so I'm not going to spend as much time on it today [20:02:47] I did find out a few things about JitMeet, even going so far as to meet up with the person who suggested it to us in Boston [20:03:17] But, as far as I can tell, we're still at roughly the same place with it. [20:03:29] yeah :/ [20:03:47] I would sort of like to experiment with it very briefly to make sure the Etherpads are working now - the guy I talked to seemed to think they would now [20:03:52] #action greg-g to add column on requirements table re scalability [20:04:00] can you #action that, marktraceur [20:04:12] #action greg-g to add column on requirements table re scalability [20:04:36] * greg-g can experiment [20:04:44] Oh, wow, they changed it [20:04:52] And that means it's broken. [20:04:55] hah [20:05:15] So, we'll table that for now. [20:05:24] Chromium isn't supported by Chrome is? [20:05:25] #action marktraceur to make sure that jitmeet's etherpads are working now [20:05:25] wtf [20:05:33] greg-g: I have not had that experience [20:05:38] oh, bad copy/paste [20:05:42] #info jitmeet is down for now for some reason [20:05:51] Next up, BBB [20:06:09] I asked them about WebRTC implementation, and they seem to be going VERRRRRRRRRRRRRY SLOOOOOOOOOOOOWLY. [20:06:10] it works for me [20:06:23] greg-g: Can you link to the meeting? [20:06:30] https://meet.jit.si/uv8ptdbiewylow29 [20:07:07] "Failed to get access to local media." weird [20:07:18] huh [20:07:24] I see myself [20:07:30] Might be my system. [20:07:35] and the etherpad [20:07:47] #info greg-g was able to connect to JitMeet but marktraceur's system gave him errors. [20:07:58] #info BBB WebRTC implementation is coming along too slowly [20:08:44] Next I want to talk about a new option that we haven't gotten to work yet. [20:08:54] Echoplexus. [20:08:55] I got the direct url out of the source: https://etherpad.jitsi.net:9001/p/6ma8pgjsjor_1396555557773 [20:08:58] #link https://chat.echoplex.us/wikimedia [20:09:38] #info marktraceur confirms that something's funky about his camera setup [20:09:58] greg-g, others - if you are able to get video/audio working in echoplexus, that would be useful information. [20:10:05] in echoplex I get [20:10:06] I suspect you won't be able to, though, as we weren't before. [20:10:17] WebRTC failed! [20:10:18] Could not connect to stream [20:10:25] Argh. [20:10:25] wbrtc failed to connect.. [20:10:47] Well, it's an interesting solution because it also has text chat, doodling, and a JSBin equivalent [20:11:19] #action marktraceur to file bugs about video/audio support in echoplexus, or echo support for existing ones [20:11:29] Pgp encryption on the fly is kinda cool [20:11:40] yeah [20:11:42] #info pgp support in echoplexus makes csteipp happy [20:12:18] Now, unless there's something we missed in any of those options, or if someone else has a solution we haven't tried, I'd like to breeze right along to the next item on our list [20:12:35] (I've conspicuously failed to mention chatb.org because I think we've decided it's not worth our time right now) [20:12:52] * greg-g nods [20:13:50] #topic Collaborative document editing [20:13:58] #link https://office.wikimedia.org/wiki/Free_software_advocacy_group/Documents [20:14:27] I think we don't have too much to demo here, everyone is familiar with https://etherpad.wikimedia.org [20:14:34] I agree with Luis that Etherpad won't work for many of the situations [20:15:15] I'm pretty sure there's an export function [20:15:50] But otherwise, yes, there are issues. [20:15:51] yeah, but the lack of annotations and ACL is pretty much a show stopper [20:16:02] annotations/comments [20:16:08] #action marktraceur to add a table to this page like the one on the VC page [20:16:43] The other option I have listed is OwnCloud [20:16:53] #link http://demo.owncloud.org/index.php [20:17:23] If someone could join me in the documents section, in "New Document.odt", I'd like to test the collaboration features [20:17:35] * csteipp resists the p0wnCloud jokes... [20:17:42] http://demo.owncloud.org/index.php/apps/documents#40 specifically [20:18:35] Ooh, it works [20:18:38] Brilliant [20:18:46] I wasn't sure it was real-time [20:18:55] #info OwnCloud does have RTC [20:19:01] I don't get what the color highlighting is supposed to mean.. [20:19:16] I think that someone has the text selected [20:19:41] Ah. And the lines on the left are kinda who created the line? [20:19:45] ish [20:19:49] last edited really [20:19:50] It's a bit slow, but I'm willing to chalk that up to "demo server" for now [20:20:00] We could maybe look into dumping it on a labs instance [20:20:02] no annotations nor chat [20:20:10] greg-g: True. [20:20:19] I assume ACL because owncloud has acls [20:20:22] but can't confirm [20:20:34] hum, unresponsive? [20:20:48] sidenote: after some quick searching, LibreOffice Online still seems to be in vaporware stages? [20:21:02] greg-g: Yeah, I couldn't find anything useful [20:21:07] * greg-g nods [20:21:12] #info LibreOffice's RTC methods are basically vaporware [20:21:30] #info OwnCloud lacks many features of Etherpad, buc has ACL [20:22:07] Doesn't etherpad have an authentication and private pad plugin? [20:22:14] But, apart from the two we've talked about, I'd like there to be more options [20:22:22] So if anyone knows of others, I'd love to add them to the list [20:22:30] (and the table when it is created) [20:22:44] csteipp: rhelmer of Mozilla was working on it, but it's vaporware too IIRC [20:22:53] They decided to build their own by hacking core last I checked [20:23:12] #action marktraceur to ask rhelmer whether EPL's private-pad/auth stuff is still active or if it's abandonware [20:23:50] #info we could use more options than EPL and OC. Anyone with information should add it to the officewiki page. [20:24:54] #info We could also use people adding requirements to the table and lists on the officewiki page [20:25:22]