[00:03:24] huh: desysopping people tends to make people very upset, and would put the WMF in a rather awkward position if a given community just re-sysopped the person [00:04:03] Why isn't dewiki allowed to disable MediaViewer if the community wants to? [00:05:08] https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3ACommon.js&diff=132942446&oldid=131891714 It doesn't even unload it, it just makes the click do nothing (it can easily be re-enabled via userscript) [00:05:46] Did you look at the wikimedia-l/wikitech-l thread and the Meta RFC? [00:06:06] I'm pretty sure these questions have been addressed already. [00:06:07] That's where the public conversation that I've seen about this has been [00:20:06] I've read dozens of posts on the wikitech thread but I still haven't found an answer to my question. [00:20:41] i.e. why does the WMF object to changing MediaViewer from opt-out to opt-in based on community consensus? [00:21:00] !logs is http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikimedia-office/ [00:21:00] Key was added [00:21:09] legoktm: ^ [00:21:11] Does this apply to all new "beta" (wikiafication) features or just this one? [00:21:16] Thehelpfulone: ty [00:21:17] hi Thehelpfulone [00:21:28] huh: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69292#c1 [00:21:29] hi huh :) [00:21:29] !loga [00:21:30] !logs [00:21:30] http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikimedia-office/ [00:21:33] :> [00:22:57] Emufarmers: thanks, even though the answer is in a language I don't understand at all https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Diskussion:Meinungsbilder/Medienbetrachter#Antwort_zur_Abstimmung_der_deutschsprachigen_Wikipedia_zum_Medienbetrachter ... [00:23:06] To the Google Translate! [00:23:10] Right. [00:23:12] :> [21:04:04] Hello all! [21:04:16] Hi! :) [21:04:19] Hey everyone! [21:04:21] #startmeeting RfC catchup | Channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE). | https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours | Logs: http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikimedia-office/ [21:04:21] Meeting started Wed Aug 13 21:04:21 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sumanah. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. [21:04:21] Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. [21:04:21] The meeting name has been set to 'rfc_catchup___channel_is_logged_and_publicly_posted__do_not_remove_this_note_____https___meta_wikimedia_org_wiki_irc_office_hours___logs__http___bots_wmflabs_org__wm_bot_logs__23wikimedia_office_' [21:04:21] she's back! [21:04:33] #chair brion Tim-away mark sumanah [21:04:33] Current chairs: Tim-away brion mark sumanah [21:04:41] How was Wikimania? :) [21:04:53] * sumanah was not there [21:04:55] good fun :) still in UK [21:05:12] 2 topics today - basically, 1) anything from Wikimania folks need to know about? [21:05:14] point to notes, etc [21:05:23] and 2) some followup/next steps from previous meetings [21:05:30] #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings [21:05:34] #topic Wikimania [21:05:58] so, brion aude awjr cscott greg-g and all the rest of y'all who were at Wikimania [21:06:03] any architectural or design decisions? [21:06:10] * awjr waves [21:06:14] i wasn't actually at wikimania :) [21:06:20] im just lurking [21:06:56] no huge decisions yet. were talking about expanding/delegating from the arch committee but nothing's finalized yet [21:07:32] but that should help with some more rfc work later :) [21:07:53] Is the arch committee the same as the three Architects? [21:08:00] hahahaha [21:08:00] TrevorParscal: James_F I think you were there, right? [21:08:00] any decisions that need reporting back that haven't already made it to wikitech-l? [21:08:10] for the moment yes its the three of us [21:08:20] but soon: moar! [21:08:30] :) [21:09:51] Ill make sure we get a few things summarized I have notes to go back over [21:10:57] but nothing earth shattering. the main controversies right now are outside arch committees purvue :P [21:12:23] #info there's discussion of how to expand/delegate from the arch committee but nothing's finalized yet [21:12:40] brion: while I fuss with IRC will you switch #topic to RfC followup? [21:12:47] whoah, what is ghostsumana? [21:12:54] Whooooo I'm a ghost! [21:13:11] #topic RfC followuo [21:13:16] #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-08-13 [21:13:21] she has come to coordinate this meeting from beyoooooond the graaaaaaaaaaaaaave [21:13:26] woopa I'm on my phone and can't spell [21:13:31] hahahaha [21:13:37] it's fine [21:13:46] IT'S NOT FINE. I AM A GHOST. [21:13:55] * sumanah is laughing too hard [21:13:55] :) [21:13:57] ok! [21:13:59] AndyRussG: [21:14:09] CentralNotice proxy! fundraising! thing! who is the point person now? [21:14:19] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/CentralNotice_Caching_Overhaul_-_Frontend_Proxy [21:14:27] Is it awight? [21:14:32] * awight points to AndyRussG [21:14:39] I think it's me :) [21:14:40] I can be a loyal "yes" person though [21:14:48] excellent [21:15:18] Things always work out best if there's a disloyal "no" person and a loyal "yes" person [21:15:26] #agreed that AndyRussG is the new CentralNotice Caching Overhaul - Frontend Proxy point person, and awight helps out friendly-like [21:15:29] ok, moving on! [21:15:34] Followup from 23 July: have we done security update planning re Composer managed libraries for use on WMF cluster? [21:15:35] Quick question first? [21:15:42] oh go ahead AndyRussG [21:15:43] Or questions? [21:16:01] (these are the #links I forged in life) [21:16:14] heh [21:16:17] 1) Timeline needed/expected: how soon does everyone need aciton on the CentralNotice RfC? [21:16:56] #info let's look at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-07-30 for a bit of context [21:17:02] And 2) just to confirm that ESI is still a ways off? [21:17:11] ESI is still a fair bit out [21:17:30] Jeff_Green: ^ [21:17:33] ... and whether leaning on the ESI issue might accelerate things :p [21:17:34] (just for heads-up) [21:18:30] I'm going to lose signal be right back [21:18:36] ok [21:18:59] AndyRussG: I think your product manager-type person is the one to talk with about schedules. Anne? [21:18:59] mark: is the blocker for ESI the Varnish 3.* upgrade, or something else? [21:19:04] atgo_: ^^ [21:19:09] at least the varnish 4 upgrade [21:19:15] and who knows if it's reliable then [21:19:46] ok we can chat offline, that's news at least! [21:20:12] hey all. getting caught up here - major computer/IRC issues today [21:21:26] ok atgo - AndyRussG asked: "Timeline needed/expected: how soon does everyone need aciton on the CentralNotice RfC?" [21:21:41] K I guess we could look into timeline for the CentralNotice RfC in more detail later, and get back to everyone maybe via Wikitech [21:21:55] ok! [21:22:03] sounds like a good plan AndyRussG [21:22:08] csteipp: Followup from 23 July: have we done security update planning re Composer managed libraries for use on WMF cluster? [21:22:09] :) [21:22:14] bd808|BUFFER: [21:22:30] also "bd808 to get repo renamed from mw/core/vendor to mw/vendor" - happened? [21:22:33] Not really? [21:23:09] I know bd808|BUFFER is sponsoring the monolog bit, so he's the person to watch for updates, and will delegate someone else if when he's no longer able to [21:23:30] But the process hasn't been documented anywhere that I'm aware of [21:23:42] oh mark whilst you're here YGM from me about a mailman upgrade [21:23:46] "Look into https://security.sensiolabs.org/check and https://github.com/sensiolabs/security-advisories for vulnerability tracking" - can we assign this to Bryan as well? [21:23:55] Thehelpfulone: yes, sorry, i'll respond tomorrow [21:24:13] thanks [21:24:46] Right, I was on vacation for that meeting... no wonder it didn't look familiar. That sensiolabs thing looks interesting. [21:25:41] I'll check with Bryan when he gets back and see if he's set it up anywhere. [21:26:05] #action csteipp to check with Bryan re Composer managed libraries for use on WMF cluster security planning [21:26:23] ok, next Followup from 21 May: has cscott run the requested stats on Square bounding boxes? [21:26:32] cscott: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-05-21 and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Square_bounding_boxes [21:27:26] I know it's past the end of the working day on the East Coast really [21:27:30] so I'll move on [21:27:38] or europe :p [21:27:41] brion: are you pingable? [21:27:42] certainly! [21:27:44] yo [21:27:49] brion: Followup from 16 July: does Brion know the next steps re CSSJanus on vertical writing support? [21:27:58] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-07-16 and https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Vertical_writing_support [21:28:23] sumanah: if nobody else wants to take it it’s still on my research todo list, but i have to follow up on it further [21:29:50] brion: well it was assigned to you which is why I think people thought it was your task [21:29:57] yes :) [21:29:59] :) [21:30:15] just haven’t gotten to it yet, it’s still in my queue [21:30:18] got it [21:30:30] np, if the RfC authors want more activity happening, they have their own TODOs [21:31:07] ok, next, yurikR [21:31:08] Followup from 11 June: how has the bandwidth savings been on Reducing image quality for mobile? Will we change regular/original images as well as thumbnails? [21:31:14] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-06-11 [21:31:17] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Reducing_image_quality_for_mobile [21:32:30] From the notes, it seems like the idea was to have a user option for changing the quality of full-size (i.e. originals as of now) images. [21:32:42] I assume it would still keep the originally uploaded image for a couple reasons: [21:32:47] sumanah, we have deployed it for a limitted number of partners, but we don't have an easy way to measure it yet. I will try to come up with some data from zero logs, and we should probably ping analytics [21:33:07] superm401: yeah it’s an alternate version of the thumbnail [21:33:24] the originals are unchanged [21:33:54] Thanks for clarifying, brion. [21:33:56] i think the biggest partner, russian beeline, is on the new shrinkimg as of two weeks ago [21:35:03] so now we need a way to evaluate the bandwidth. Does anyoen know if there is a way to monitor bandwidth like that? [21:35:17] yurikR: count the hits and multiply by the file size, i suppose :D [21:35:34] Analytics people? [21:35:42] milimetric: ^ [21:35:51] hi [21:35:54] brion, you mean to basically analyze zero logs which have some sort of a file size [21:35:57] * milimetric reads up [21:36:12] yurikR, I think there is now page view data on images, so if nothing else, you could same some image hits, calculate the bandwidth used, then check the equivalent without the lower-qualityversion. [21:36:36] yurikR: with luck the log entries include file size. without luck, you have to look up the files to get the number [21:36:57] brion, to be clear I was talking about, "maybe someday we could also change original/regular images, not just thumbnails, if the user wants to save bandwidth there, too, but let's see how thumbs go first." from https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Architecture_meetings/RFC_review_2014-06-11 [21:37:02] brion, yes, that's what i was planning to do, ignoring all the 304s. superm401 any links? [21:37:28] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Hit_stats_aggregation#Image_views ? [21:37:32] Just found that. [21:37:35] yurikR: lemme check real quick, I know the hadoop logs have the response size, but not sure about the other logs [21:37:52] superm401: ah i think that’s for when you zoom in rather than modifying the original file [21:38:05] just curl the urls and measure the file size that way [21:38:06] milimetric, i thought we didn't have a functioning hadoop [21:38:08] if you do it for a sample [21:38:11] that's fine [21:38:30] Yeah, I assume the same would go (only affects display, original is unaffected), but someone should correct me if there has been discussion of lossy changes to the actual original. [21:38:31] yurikR: not for public consumption yet, but it's there to poke around [21:39:57] milimetric, will it have X-Analytics field? [21:41:28] ok, yurikR do you have the answers you need? [21:41:30] any action items? [21:42:07] sumanah, just checked in the zero logs, it seems multimedia is not being marked with X-Analytics (zero) tags [21:42:10] yurikR: let's talk further in -analytics if you want [21:42:18] milimetric, ok, thx [21:42:38] that was the last question I had, but brion mark and anyone else, if you have more RfC questions please speak up [21:42:44] otherwise we can wrap up [21:42:52] i’m good for now [21:42:58] cscott: ping in case you have Square bounding box thoughts :) [21:43:15] * sumanah looks at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Standardized_thumbnails_sizes [21:43:37] brion, will be happy about https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Graph [21:43:49] sorry, i'm overwhelmed with PDF stuff, haven't had any brain cycles to spare for fixing images [21:43:51] \o/ [21:43:54] almost ready to deply ;) [21:44:00] pending sec review [21:44:07] also, i don't have the appetite for breaking the world at the moment. ;) enough turmoil already atm. [21:44:17] gi11es and Ops ( mark ?) let me update https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Standardized_thumbnails_sizes with what they had said [21:44:42] #info square bounding boxes still delayed and waiting on cscott's time and community appetite for change :) [21:45:35] got it cscott [21:46:05] mark: re https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Standardized_thumbnails_sizes did you end up organizing the sprint you suggested? [21:46:21] "As you know there�s a fair amount of desire to change the way thumb handling & storage works, support more variants (sizes, quality), etc by various teams. I�m starting to think it would be good for us to organise a sprint on this very topic, get the multimedia team, relevant Ops people and some other interested developers from other teams and really dive into these problems." [21:46:27] (after this I'm gonna close it up) [21:46:30] (the meeting I mean) [21:46:47] ghostsumana I think your time wandering this earth is coming to an end [21:47:08] I only came here to fulfill the need to make this meeting happen; now I am at peace [21:47:15] wait what's happening [21:47:18] what just happened [21:47:23] :) [21:47:45] Samoyed: (My IRC connection broke for a few min so I opened up a webchat thing as "ghostsumana" to kick off the rfc review) [21:48:01] harej: ^ [21:48:16] bringin' a little Tumblr spirit to these meetings [21:49:19] ok, so I'm gonna read that as a no, no sprint planned yet [21:49:55] thanks everyone! [21:49:59] #endmeeting [21:49:59] Meeting ended Wed Aug 13 21:49:59 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) [21:49:59] Minutes: https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2014/wikimedia-office.2014-08-13-21.04.html [21:49:59] Minutes (text): https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2014/wikimedia-office.2014-08-13-21.04.txt [21:49:59] Minutes (wiki): https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2014/wikimedia-office.2014-08-13-21.04.wiki [21:49:59] Log: https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2014/wikimedia-office.2014-08-13-21.04.log.html [21:50:09] \o/ [21:50:11] thanks sumanah [21:50:16] thank you brion [21:50:23] have a good evening and enjoy WorldCon [21:50:26] wish I were there [21:50:33] will do, it should be good fun :D [21:50:38] I want to know who's gonna win the Best Novel hugo!!! [21:50:47] :D [21:50:52] ghostsumana, on the other hand, only cares about the retro hugos [21:51:06] hehe yeah i saw they had that, that’s gonna be awesome [21:51:37] ok catch y’all later [21:52:53] Last of these meetings I am coordinating! [21:52:59] coordinated, I mean [21:53:06] architecty people will run them from now on