[15:01:32] anything good on https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG#ieg-reviewing ? [15:11:19] level11: Not sure you'll get a lot of responses here [15:11:34] Oh, there's a meeting in 45 minutes or so [15:11:40] So maybe ask then? :) [15:21:29] Hello, is this the correct time and place to ask questions about turning IdeaLab ideas into grant proposals (as per https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Events#Upcoming_events) ? [15:24:39] in 36 minutes, There project [15:25:13] Theredproject * [15:26:16] Thank you level11 -- the UTC converter I consulted said it was 11-12. [15:47:33] Morning folks, anyone here early for the IdeaLab Hangout for IEG proposers? [15:50:24] me, but I'm only helping, not applying https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Grants:IEG/Revision_scoring_as_a_service&diff=9978563&oldid=9945675 [15:51:05] I have a conflict of interest though. I hope someday to evaluate diffs for Dogecoin [15:53:30] Hey, if there is an op in the channel, could someone update the topic to include: "IdeaLab IEG Proposal Hangout: This hour talk about your ideas and proposals!" [15:57:59] !op what Ocaasi_ said plus http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG [15:58:05] Hello Ocaasi, I am here for the IdeaLab Hangout for IEG proposers. I have proposed an Idea (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Art%2BFeminism_Editathon_expansion) and have a few questions. Please let me know if now is the time to ask those questions, ro whether I should wait. [15:58:13] hi Theredproject welcome! [15:58:37] we're just waiting for a few people to arrive and say hello. we will definitely take a look at your proposal and give you time to ask questions in a bit! [15:58:59] I'm here with sikob, head of IEG. We'd love to chat [15:59:01] Hey the redproject - thanks for coming! [15:59:01] Great. I am happy to hold off. I don't know what your format is, and don't want to talk out of order. [15:59:14] I'm going to give your page a read now :) [15:59:18] Hi sikob. Thanks for the invite! [15:59:21] and you can go first w/ questions when we start [15:59:40] format is mad house free for all, so you're right on, red :) [15:59:40] Theredproject, please ask for endorsements on the talk page for Wikiproject Feminism [15:59:57] hey J-Mo [16:00:07] hey there Ocassi_ [16:00:10] hey j-mo, thx for coming [16:00:15] no prob! [16:00:22] just letting the coffee kick in :) [16:00:48] J-Mo: our first irc proposer is asking about this one: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Art%2BFeminism_Editathon_expansion [16:00:51] well let's jump in, shall we? here's the plan: anyone is welcome to share a proposal or a question, and we'll just take them as we come. Theredproject is first. [16:00:52] we're taking a look at it now [16:01:02] I had a look at this yesterday, saw your email too [16:01:13] and I had a chat with the PEG program officer [16:01:41] Hi All, thanks for considering my idea. Do note that I have a longer draft in my sandbox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Theredproject/sandbox/ArtAndFeminism_Grant_Draft [16:01:55] I am one of several co-organizers. [16:01:56] someone email EpochFail with http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#wikimedia-office please [16:02:08] our thought based on reading your idea was that it may make the most sense to split your idea into 2 grants: a PEG for the events (1 year's worth of expenses), and an IEG for the work you'd want to do on making the kits for others to scale beyond your local events [16:02:18] looking at draft now [16:02:30] I'll ping him, level11 [16:02:57] ah, he's here: hey halfak, level11 has a question for you [16:03:06] I quite like the idea of a +Feminism network model [16:03:41] halfak are you EpochFail? [16:03:44] Yup. [16:03:45] o/ [16:03:51] Theredproject: would you be applying for both grants concurrently? [16:04:12] Hey level11. What's up? [16:04:20] I mercilessly suggestified your proposal, halfak. it was fun [16:04:33] :) Thanks for that. [16:04:44] ywnpmp [16:04:45] aha, Theredproject, I see you've already thought along same lines as Alex and I (IEG for materials, organizing, PEG for the events themselves) [16:05:07] Theredproject, yep your proposal is pretty exciting and that model seems to have a lot of momentum, imo [16:05:10] J-Mo, we would necessarily be doing both at once, and thus would have to apply for both at once. Is there precedent for this? Is this workable for the WMF process? [16:05:47] AFAK, there's no reason it wouldn't work. :) [16:05:47] we did something somewhat similar for keilana's systemic bias workshops... [16:05:51] sec, digging up link [16:06:05] Thanks Ocaasi_ We have found a lot of itnerest. We presented at WikiconUSA about what we did differently and why we think this route has been successful [16:06:05] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_Scientists_Workshop_Development [16:06:26] she started with a PEG to get her events going, then IEG built off of what was learned from the events to turn it into a kit [16:06:31] precedent? lol, the IEG round 102 years ago used a different format [16:06:38] ;) [16:06:41] LOL [16:06:44] I was wondering if the "curriculum development" process would be refined by trying different things at different events. That would be valuable, since there are always ways to improve any kind of educational materials that you don't realize until you've tried to use them! [16:07:09] Ocaasi_: Protip, there's no +t on this channel, anyone can change the topic [16:07:29] marktraceur: oh great, thanks for that tip. so, um, how do I change the topic?? [16:07:33] we'd want to work with you to make sure there was clear definition/scope for the 2, and we'd probably want to talk about how to make reporting streamlined so you weren't duplicating work unnecessarily for 2 grants, but that's all doable as long as we're in good communication [16:07:39] Ocaasi_: /topic [16:07:49] You should keep most of the existing topic in it though. [16:07:50] marktraceur: thanks! [16:07:52] of course [16:08:25] thanks, Ocaasi! [16:08:41] welcome* [16:09:19] so, training materials, editathon materials (anything that takes something from local and turns it into more generic kit), and the network building would be in scope of an IEG, i'd guess. [16:09:49] Yes J-Mo, we are going to be iterative with curriculum. Our plan is to run three or four training sessions from oct -> feb, each one will build on the next. we will have two skill levels, so participants can build, and eventually our goal is to have the feb session faciliatated by women who have gone throuh this training cycle (not the original faciliatators) as a proof of concept [16:10:14] i might suggest thinking about funding being for time spent community organizing (network building), not just for making sure organizers report…but that's a small detail [16:10:43] ok Theredproject, so what questions do you have? here we are talking at you, but there's probably something in particular you're wondering about, right? [16:10:57] halfak, what more do you think it needs before asking for endorsements? [16:11:19] (meanwhile, if anyone else is here to get feedback or ask questions about another proposal or idea, feel free to post it here, and we'll queue you up next) [16:11:33] sikob, we would appreciate your guidance re: clear definition/scope. and yeah: reporting twice should be streamlined(!) [16:11:35] level11. Good Q. I'm working with Gediz to flesh out the stuff he wants to be funded for. [16:11:35] J-Mo, is there a URL for curriculum proposal? [16:11:48] I'm staff, so I'm not looking for funding. :) [16:11:52] Hi folks, we are here discussion IEG proposals and ideas for the September open call. If you have an idea or proposal please introduce yourself and share a link to your draft. We're available all hour to answer questions. [16:11:56] discussing* [16:12:31] I do! :) [16:12:33] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Socialize_Wikimedia_Commons [16:12:39] halfak, cool glad gediz is coming back [16:12:44] level11: I've pinged Gediz asking him to be here, but it seems he couldn't make it. [16:12:44] level11, I was referring to the "IEG piece" of Theredproject 's IdeaLab Idea: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Art%2BFeminism_Editathon_expansion [16:12:49] hey Jey! [16:12:56] ok jey, you'll be next after theredproject [16:13:10] Just reviewed your feedback Ocaasi and sikob [16:13:16] thanks! [16:13:22] Theredproject, does my suggestion about how to split the 2 grants make sense? [16:13:33] sikob, my main questions were: whether to apply for IEG, PEG, or both. AND whether the Inspire Grants were an idea or a program. [16:13:46] ah yes, inspire does not yet exist [16:13:50] thought it will someday! [16:13:53] but don't yet worry about that [16:13:58] sikob, yes the idea to split makes sense. good to know re: inspire. okay [16:14:18] PEG can't fund your time, so that's where i'm suggesting you might consider separating into 2 grants [16:14:25] siko, my remaining two questions about splitting are: [16:14:40] that could also help you get some folks focusing on materials, outside of the event-prep itself (which is always time consuming) [16:15:25] 1. the core of the grant proposals will likely be very similar. this is okay, right? (a lot of repetition, with sections copied & repeated) [16:15:52] Jey, please see https://dev.twitter.com/cards/getting-started [16:16:52] Theredproject: you can also cross-link between proposals, and we can play around with this some. One way to do it could be to keep your idea as the shared base, and then have a PEG page and an IEG page that link to that for the shared background, and then have each just focus on the specifics needed. [16:16:59] Jey, and https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MetaDescriptionTag [16:17:03] another option is to copy/repeat, and that's ok too [16:17:11] * halfak --> meeting [16:17:11] 2. are there particularly good examples of budgets for IEG grants that give an example for accounting for organizer's time? Keilana's one that you sent (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Women_Scientists_Workshop_Development) is not particularly detailed about time. Is this okay? [16:17:15] we've never done exactly this before, so we'd be experimenting along with you ;) [16:17:26] and alex and i are game to see how that goes [16:17:51] you want to make a mediawiki extension that sends meta headers when Twitter etc. servers request commons URLs [16:17:54] Hey folks who just joined. Welcome to the IEG chat. If you have an idea of proposal draft, and want to ask questions, please say hi and share a link! [16:18:21] sikob, i like your ideas for format for two. i'm happy to experiment with you as well. [16:18:49] for organizer's time budget: there's no set model. either a stipend (2000 for 3 people over 6 months doing xyz) works, or you can break it down into hourly rate x hours/week over 6 months, per person [16:18:57] we've funded both in past [16:19:08] halfak, will Gedez endorse it? [16:19:19] and if you don't provide enough detail in your first draft, we'll just end up asking you to clarify [16:19:21] :) [16:19:24] oops... [16:19:26] He'll be the only funded grantee [16:20:00] Does that address your questions, Theredproject? [16:20:12] yes. [16:20:16] framing another... [16:20:25] Feel free to send us links as you start moving these into grant proposal drafts, and we can keep iterating there as well. [16:20:43] ok, i'll come back to your questions so go ahead and keep posting them. but let's move to Jey's proposal now too [16:21:11] great [16:21:17] Jey, did you have something you wanted to talk about in particular on this one: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IEG/Socialize_Wikimedia_Commons [16:21:19] Jey has proposed improving commons through better integration with social media: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IEG/Socialize_Wikimedia_Commons [16:22:13] I want to discuss whether you thinks that social media users will be easily engaged to use commons [16:22:34] oh gosh, that IS a big question :) [16:22:42] i believe that most of them are already used to share pictures online and use commons will be just another step [16:22:48] commons is definitely not as easy to use as most social media [16:22:54] twitter users would be more easily engaged if tweeting project links made a nice looking preview [16:23:11] I agree [16:23:15] i like your lofty goal though. and i'd be interested in funding an experiment that helps you get closer to answering your question [16:23:38] thats what I meant [16:23:48] if we had those meta tags, then the twitter users who like commons would tweet commons pics instead of twitpic or imgur or whatever [16:23:50] I agree that it is not as easy to use [16:24:02] and also that there maight be other constraints [16:24:17] but probably should be good to know [16:24:35] I believe that most are simply unaware of the possibility to use commons and its meaning [16:24:38] level11: that's a neat idea, could you comment on the proposal talk page and drop any helpful links about it? [16:24:53] Jey, do you know where to find mediawiki developers who would help you? I think @joshuaclerner is one [16:25:18] by the way, i saw your clarification on your talk page about the spanish/catalan interviews - and i think it is a good plan to be clear about focusing on the local as a start. agree with you that of course commons discussions will be global, but in terms of having a focused group to learn from and experiment with, sticking with 1 or 2 language Wikipedias/nationalities for the in-person interviews would seems smart [16:25:25] level11 i dont intent to do any mediawiki change for now, just research [16:25:58] the other researchers here can chime in re: target group, of course. but me, i think a 6 month project is most likely to have concrete learning when there is a reasonably small scope [16:26:03] because you can always go bigger later [16:26:05] Jey: i think that's a real strength of your proposal, focusing early on with broad questions and recommendations rather than presuming you can actually build something into commons over 6 months [16:26:08] sikob this is one concern i also had but i intend to raise worldwide conclusions as far as i can [16:26:14] @joshuaclerner on twitter could give all foundation projects twitter preview cards if you paid him with part of your grant [16:26:22] Jey, ok that makes sense [16:26:36] And I'm glad you're thinking about feasibility [16:26:58] I've already researched it... lol [16:27:08] There are always the risks thinking about bringing users over from social media to commons: like, people are used to posting pictures of their kids, and selfies, (ahem), etc [16:27:20] i believe that it would be as easy to contact social media users online whether they are in Barcelona or in Japan [16:27:27] they come to commons, don't change behavior, then commonsers are stuck cleaning up a bunch of junk [16:27:49] Excuse the interruption, but wanted to post my Art+Feminism question. Feel free to answer later: my co-organizers feel strongly about building an off-wiki web presence. we feel that our recruitment and publicity was successful in part because it existed off wiki, in other networks. we found that the majority of our participants had not signed into the on wiki event page prior to arriving, and that a large percentage d [16:27:50] level11: i've added your idea to the proposal talk page. thx! [16:27:51] but i would also like to have personal interviews to get more in deep knowledge [16:28:02] the latter should be geographically constrained of course [16:28:11] ywnpmp [16:28:13] i'd guess that could be a concern. and so again, probably the right first step is to research/learn. then discuss. then maybe in another 6 month project later on you start to think about a small pilot to test hypothesis based on your first research [16:28:17] had not signed into the on wiki event page prior to arriving, and that a large percentage didn't even know it existed. we would like to make an off-wiki clearinghouse for the basic information. [16:28:30] We invision something like http://artandfeminism.tumblr.com/ though maybe under the plusFeminism.org domain, so that we can host art.plusFeminism.org and scienceplusFeminism.org. [16:28:34] Jey, agree re personal interviews [16:28:38] Two questions: 1. is this something that the WMF is willing to fund (off wiki site). 2. do you think it makes more sense to apply for this now, or wait until the curriculum is developed, and the PEG cycle completes, and then consider it for a future cycle? [16:29:31] Jey, You can go ahead and call that out clearer in your proposal. And perhaps your target in your infobox is then Commons + Catalan and Spanish Wikipedia (so there isn't the idea that you're going to be impacting and researching all 200+ langauges of WIkipedia right away) [16:29:43] Theredproject feminists tend to be politically active, right? Have you tried a MoveOn petition for endorsers and remote attendee recruitment? [16:30:44] Theredproject - i can see why you'd want a website, as part of the networking-building part of your project [16:30:48] Welcome IEG proposers. We're here to answer any questions you have or talk about your draft. Please say hi and share a link to your proposal! [16:30:57] ok sikob i would try to clarify [16:31:14] on the other hand, it can be hard to drive traffic to new sites. so, starting small can also be useful [16:31:40] I agree we had to put enfasis that commons only want educational material, not selfies :) [16:31:40] in terms of IEG funding, i'd worry about sustainability - if we fund your hosting for the first 6 months, then what happens when we stop funding? [16:32:17] Level11, we haven't scaled up to the level of a MoveOn petittion. We found plenty of interest just from FB, Twitter, Tumblr, pointing at a FB event and the WP event page. [16:32:24] Jey - good. the challenge may be how to signal to users that Commons is different (behavior can be hard to change) [16:32:42] Theredproject, I guess i'm wondering what makes you think you need more than FB & tumbler at this point? [16:32:57] sikob, yes, sustainability is key. the IEG is about building infrastructure that can be used again and again. [16:33:44] Theredproject, also outreach through Daily Kos, lots of feminists there and their traffic is spiking. See if you can get Gawker/Jezebel to ask people to sign up. Ask the Foundation for a press release, etc. [16:34:17] sikob, the reason for more than a tumblr, I think the key reason is flexibility: it would allow for multiple +Feminism campaigns more easily, as subdomains. [16:34:40] Yes re sustainability. Your materials will, because they'll presumably be stored on commons etc. But my concern about funding a website build before you've demonstrated clear need is it is it can be a lot of infrastructure that you then need funding to maintain… [16:34:47] aha, hearing you about flexibility [16:35:22] Level11, we did press outreach, and were on Jezebel, and will do more of the same. I really like the idea of asking the Foundation for a press release. When do you think the timing of the release hsould come? Also, who should we approach re: the release? [16:35:35] sikob are you still talking about my draft or we moved forward? [16:35:40] sorry :) [16:35:44] Welcome folks... We're here to answer any questions you have or talk about your IEG idea or draft. Please say hi and share a link to your proposal! [16:35:46] someone should get an IEG to figure out which templates work on mobile [16:36:04] Hey Jey, we're bouncing back and forth between two. Do you have another questions? [16:36:05] Theredproject: if this feels really needed as part of the IEG scope, i'd say go ahead and put it in and see what others think about it. we're not per-se opposed to off-wiki web things. I'd just want to know what your hosting plan for the future would be. [16:36:11] level11: you could propose it :) [16:36:15] Jey, what other questions do you have - did I miss one? [16:36:31] Thanks sikob, that is helpful and provides some clarity. Will act accordingly. [16:36:52] All - we're also having 2 more Hangouts later this week, just FYI, for those of us who track better with voice than IRC :) [16:36:55] (aka me) [16:37:27] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Events#Upcoming_events [16:37:28] Theredproject, the Foundation's communication director is on twitter and email. If she doesn't respond to one in a few days, try the other and keep trying [16:37:39] sikob No I just tried not to miss any of your questions :) I think we agree on many thinks and will try to modify my draft for further clarification :) [16:37:41] OK, thanks Level11 [16:37:45] [[Category:Skills that are nice to have in the Wikimedia movement]] [16:37:49] Theredproject: i'd be happy to connect you to wmf communications folks [16:37:57] Members: IRC, talk pages, mailing lists, not feeding trolls [16:38:05] Thanks Ocaasi_ [16:38:07] Press releases are something WMF can help you with via your grantmaking program officers too, Theredproject [16:38:10] when the time comes [16:39:12] coordinating w/ communications, etc [16:39:42] What is the policy on WMF contractors also doing a IEG concurrently? is there one? [16:39:45] it is good to know about it [16:39:47] okay so if nobody else has questions, what are your favorite drafts? I already said mine [16:39:50] Jey - ok great, glad the discussion here helped and looking forward to seeing updates as you go [16:40:03] Question: how important is it that we include wikimetric data in our grant proposal? Someone from WikiEd Fdtn (I have worked quite a bit with the Ed Fdtn, teaching on wiki in my classes) offered to help me with the metrics tool, but it hasn't happened. [16:40:05] mvolz: i believe if you are contracted at more than half-time you are ineligible. [16:40:09] mvolz: contractors must be less than half-time [16:40:14] jinx, ocaasi [16:40:30] what is wikimetric data? [16:40:35] what if it's exactly halftime? [16:40:36] is there someone who can help with this, if it is needed for the proposal? [16:40:48] Level11, the data that comes from http://metrics.wmflabs.org/ [16:40:50] i think exactly halftime is doable - we can work with that [16:40:55] okay :) [16:41:04] the idea is just to make sure we're funding community members, not WMF staff [16:41:25] but the halftime contractor thing is something we've come up with to make it workable. got a grant idea you care to share? :) [16:41:32] what is a WMF contractor? does that apply to ours, or Jey's. [16:41:56] right. So the issue is I am not currently a contractor. But I might be within the next 6 months, not finalised yet [16:41:56] neither, question from someone else, Theredproject [16:42:04] so it makes it alittle hard to plan. [16:42:17] tx sikob, sorry, getting lost in teh chat... [16:42:23] gotcha, mvolz. keep us posted if/when the time comes. we'll be able to work with you. halftime should be your rule of thumb [16:42:25] Theredproject, just ask on WP:BOTREQ to tally up how many edits your contributors made, what % were new, and how many different articles they edited during the meetups [16:42:34] Theredproject: don't worry about it….IRC is like this [16:43:30] Theredproject: you can also run reports using wikimetrics where you upload a list of users and look at their activity over time [16:43:32] Theredproject: about your Wikimetrics question - we'll want you to measure the outcomes of your work. If your aim is to make more editors, we'll want you to measure that. If your aim is to make more content, we'll want you measure that. Wikimetrics can be one very useful tool for this, and we can help you get training if needed [16:44:12] But depending on your goals and what you want to measure, you may also think beyond Wikimetrics [16:44:12] I've asked for input on this https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Tools_for_using_wikidata_items_as_citations on this talk page: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Source_MetaData#RfC:_IEG_grant_for_this_project.3F and one person has commented so far so it's still very much a rough draft [16:44:57] OK, will want to have more training on this going forward, but what I hearing is that is not crucial for submitting the proposal itself, but primarily for assessing success. And yes, we want to think beyond data here; there is a note about that in the proposal [16:45:02] Welcome folks. We're still discussing your IEG ideas and proposal questions. Feel free to say hi and share a link! [16:45:15] other issue is that I'd like at least one more collaborator but am open to more too :) [16:45:30] I have some people in mind that would suit but suspect they are already busy with other things. [16:45:36] mvolz: if you write up a draft in IEG, you can leave your proposal open for others to JOIN [16:45:39] mvolz - looks like a good start! [16:45:41] new feature* [16:46:16] mvolz, let's add some roles to your idea, then when you move it to IEG that can help you catch more participants too :) [16:46:38] what would you want people to help with? (development? community organizing? project management?) [16:47:01] hmm. I think i skipped over that in the wizard [16:47:26] heh, yes, it happens :) we can do it now still though - add any of those roles to your idea and then people will see on the page that you'd want help. [16:47:40] some more info about roles: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Roles [16:48:11] Thanks sikob, Ocaasi_ and level11 for your help. I'm signing off, but will be moving this into grant space soon. I and my collaborators look forward to experimenting with you on splitting this grant into an IEG and a PEG. [16:48:28] mvolz: that should explain what you'd need to do in the markup to add more roles now. but i'm happy to help add them for you if you'd like too [16:48:38] Theredproject: thank you, looking forward to reading more details as you get closer to submitting :) [16:48:42] Thanks for coming, Theredproject - looking forward to seeing your drafts [16:48:56] sikob: thanks [16:49:28] mvoz: most welcome. and i'm glad you started with community consultation early-on - that's super smart! [16:49:51] Dev, definitely. community organiser maybe; is that a common role to fund? [16:50:31] mvolz: might want to consider a mailing list post or something else to draw more attention to your wiki-post? just a thought, as the wikidata community will likely see it where you've posted, but wikipedians less so [16:50:48] yeah I wanted to come here and ask about the contractor thing first [16:51:04] mvolz: yes, we're happy to fund community organisers. in face, i wish more software projects took this into planning from the start :) [16:51:18] I think I will try to help with the http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Public_Domain_Textbook_Import application. now that wikiversity supports Moodle.... [16:51:29] that frees you up for development, if you've got someone focused on talking to people, etc. [16:52:00] mvolz, you should try to add en:User:Dispenser to your IEG [16:52:18] you two would be awesome together [16:52:30] can they do things like edit wikidata items? There's actually a fair amount of grunt work involved that actually involves editing, but I know it says "no funding for editing" [16:52:30] mvolz, one way to do it would be to add both roles now, and see what sticks. no harm in asking for a community organizer [16:52:44] they cannot edit wikidata items, no [16:52:53] but they can organize a drive of volunteers to edit them [16:53:05] coordinating volunteers is what community organizers do best :) [16:53:13] he does Reflinks when he isn't being banned from Labs for using a tiny nonfree tool to search for steganography in images.... [16:53:27] :) [16:53:40] agree, seems like lots of editing work to be done in a project like this. and you'll want to be sure there are enough volunteers getting excited about doing it. [16:54:01] level11: I will ping him [16:54:15] great! tyvm! [16:54:44] (unidles) As I understand it, currently the ‘technical’ limitation on using wikidata for citation is that you can’t query items that aren’t linked to the current page. [16:55:33] oohhhh [16:55:47] revent: thanks. [16:56:02] that could actually sink the entire thing :) [16:56:19] mvolz never heard of a hackathon just for wikidata but maybe would be a good idea [16:56:22] mvolz: There are peopel working on it, I think it’s actually supposed to start working before long. [16:56:46] revent: this might mean we have to wait until next round though [16:56:52] with just 4 minutes left to go, anyone have any last links to proposals they want feedback on, or a last question for IEG? [16:56:52] Dispenser can save you, mvolz, you can totally query Wikidata other ways [16:57:09] Lydia_WMDE would be a good person to talk to about it. [16:57:21] molz: waiting for next round is never a bad thing. might start drafting now, give you time to refine and add people, run your thoughts by Lydia, etc [16:57:28] level11: yeah, I think what revent is saying is not about the querying though but actually embedding the data in the page itself [16:57:40] who's posting the logs to the office hour page? can we get an IEG for someone to do that when staff forget to? [16:58:17] i.e. this all depends on a template being able to display wikidata information [16:58:31] but if that information can only come from the linked item.... [16:59:01] mvolz templates are Lua these days. Lua has a socket library. technically, templates can edit [16:59:08] i dunno how logging works, sadly, so hopefully someone else will help with this :) [16:59:30] sikob it is OK for you if we follow the discussion in the talk page of the IEG or prefer other ways? [17:00:05] Jey: yes, let's move to discussing your proposal further on your IEG's talk page. I'm watching it. [17:00:14] level11: aha, so query from the template :) [17:00:22] ok everybody, thanks for today's discussion! that wraps up this office hour on IEG [17:00:22] yep [17:00:28] but that would still be storing the data locally... [17:00:36] well [17:00:36] Thanks everyone for coming and sharing your ideas and questions! [17:00:39] hmm [17:00:53] We can continue discussion onwiki [17:01:08] ask Dispenser, mvolz, he will know how and the sooner someone figures out how to pay him, the better [17:01:26] level11: will do [17:01:32] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG#ieg-contact and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Events#Upcoming_events are good places to go if you need more help drafting. [17:01:42] great [17:01:49] beyond talk page of your proposal (which we'll definitely see) [17:01:58] ok, thanks everyone - bye! [17:02:03] yeah I'll try to suggestify open textbook import later in the week, thanks [17:03:50] It's Ocaasi! [17:03:58] Or was! [17:04:54] hey harej how is it going?