[17:07:16] Hello #wikimedia-office! I'll be running AV for today's Metrics meeting. To watch the stream, go to http://youtu.be/GJGC9zpbJpU [17:45:20] Good morning! [17:45:56] hello [17:47:35] * bd808 lurks [17:52:01] i like lurking. It presumes some sort of comfy shadow to hide in. [17:52:14] * Pine gets out a flashlight [17:53:54] * Pine spies Jan-Bart [17:54:18] * Jan-Bart spies Pine [17:54:22] :) [17:54:32] We're just playing flashlight tag in the office. [17:57:43] Good morning everyone. [17:57:43] * marktraceur fails at lurking [17:57:55] Good morning James_F [17:57:58] * James_F is IRC person again today. [17:58:07] Yay James_F [17:58:09] *applause [17:58:11] Do we have a Youtube link? [17:58:21] Pine: Just added it to the /topic. [17:58:26] ah [17:58:36] Pine: http://youtu.be/GJGC9zpbJpU [17:58:48] Ooh, flashlight tag would be fun! [17:59:00] Maybe a potential AllHands party game [17:59:02] The big item this week is the introduction of the new VP of Engineering, Damon Sicore. [17:59:12] Holy gods. I just learned that pressing Alt on YouTube changes the screen size. [17:59:21] That's not broken at all [18:00:45] We'll also have a brief update from Lila, top line metrics as ever, an update about the IEG proposals and one of the Annual Plan Grants, a review of Engineering's Q1 priority work, featuring stuff from Gabriel, Kevin, Toby and Yuri, a piece from Fundraising and one jointly from LCA & Comms. [18:00:48] So… busy. [18:00:59] Hopefully we'll keep to sort-of time. [18:01:07] … he says, as we're already late to start. [18:01:34] (Making sure remote people can actually see the slides shown; feels like it's worth waiting for, but…) [18:01:48] As always, if you have questions, please do ask them here whenever they occur. [18:02:10] Often you'll get an answer in here; if not and there's time, I'll ask it on your behalf. [18:02:19] not started yet right? [18:02:31] No. [18:02:36] (Sorry.) [18:03:12] no worries, just want to make sure I'm not missing something :) [18:03:24] Alright folks, I'm running AV this morning. Please ping me with AV comments, and James_F for everything else. [18:03:26] Only the dulcet tones of my voice. ;-) [18:03:30] Thanks cndiv! [18:03:39] I'll pay attention as best I can but will be turning knobs and pushing buttons most of the time. [18:03:58] meeting? [18:04:12] Starting very soon. [18:04:20] Pressing button now. [18:04:30] yay! [18:04:35] Oy. [18:04:56] Anyone got the feed yet? [18:05:00] no [18:05:00] nope [18:05:01] nope [18:05:04] now [18:05:10] REALLY would appreciate audio comments, it's giving a visual indicator that I don't think is real [18:05:11] “an error occurred, please try again later” in chrome.... [18:05:13] now [18:05:15] aha it’s up in firefox [18:05:16] .me f5s [18:05:17] brion: Reload? [18:05:17] here we are [18:05:18] got it [18:05:31] halfak: Audio alright? No huge noise? [18:05:36] good [18:05:39] cndiv: sounds good [18:05:41] greg-g: thanks [18:05:44] I'm in, thanks cndiv [18:05:45] Sounds good [18:05:46] good here [18:05:48] greg-g: hangouts grrre [18:06:01] MatmaRex: \o/ welcome [18:06:02] Welcome MatmaRex! [18:06:07] Who's Bartosz [18:06:07] woo, MatmaRex [18:06:11] yay matanya [18:06:11] Though it seems like you've been here a while. :) [18:06:12] err [18:06:14] yay MatmaRex [18:06:20] yay matanya too, but for other reasons :) [18:06:23] yay Editing people! [18:06:26] sup. [18:06:27] :) [18:06:31] Welcome everyone else too. :) [18:06:33] * YuviPanda wonders if terry will send 'welcome email' before it is too late [18:06:45] Anyone know Damon's IRC handle? [18:06:46] YuviPanda: Like before the sun explodes? ;) [18:06:49] YuviPanda: Thanks for the reminder. :-) [18:06:53] superm401, gnubeard [18:07:06] Eloquence_mm, that's an awesome nick. [18:07:15] superm401: Tell Damon. :-) [18:07:18] 14:07 [Freenode] >>> There is no such nick gnubeard [18:07:21] I think Terry will need to send those emails even when he's not with us anymore :p [18:07:21] who is gnubeard [18:07:27] YuviPanda, Damon is. [18:07:31] aaaaaah [18:07:46] 'gnubeard' is an awesome nick. [18:07:47] I totally misread Rachel Stallman as richard stallman ;) [18:07:52] cndiv: switch to lila please [18:07:54] bawolff: People do that. :-) [18:07:57] thanks :) [18:07:58] +1 to gnubeard as a nick [18:08:05] greg-g: already have? [18:08:12] cndiv: stupid delay ;) [18:08:13] we're on delay :) [18:08:21] having that Stallman working with us would be... entertaining. [18:08:22] should join here :) [18:08:24] Elitre: heh, someone joked about terry emailing 'as you all know, I left the foundation 7 months ago...' [18:08:35] lol [18:08:36] matanya: He's currently standing at the front… [18:08:37] Elitre: we can buy a parrot for the office! [18:08:42] cndiv, switch to Damon, please [18:08:49] * brion waves through the interwebs [18:08:54] (I have negative lag, mind you) ;) [18:08:57] now i see [18:08:57] YuviPanda: ugh, that joke was dead when it first started [18:08:58] qgil: Haven't left? [18:08:58] What are people seeing? [18:09:01] I have it on the camera. [18:09:03] qgil: … he's standing in front of the camera? [18:09:04] yay Damon! [18:09:04] greg-g: parrot? [18:09:09] yeah :) [18:09:13] greg-g: heh :) [18:09:16] am I the only one who thought Damon looks vaguely similar to Jimmy in some pics? [18:09:18] srsly what are people seeing [18:09:23] camera? [18:09:29] cndiv: I see Lila and others. [18:09:32] yeah, lila and damon [18:09:35] Elitre: thank you [18:09:35] i see the camera (gayle, lilia, damon) [18:09:39] cndiv: lia and damon [18:09:49] qgil: What are you seeing then? [18:09:54] the future [18:10:01] * qgil will make no more jokes, back to silent [18:10:20] i want the camera milimetric [18:10:24] cndiv: stupid auto focus is having a haaarrrdd time [18:10:34] sok, makes it artsy [18:10:58] greg-g: Yeah, it thinks whatever is bright it should focus on [18:11:03] yeah [18:11:05] greg-g: therefore the projection [18:11:07] makes sense [18:11:07] nice intro :) [18:11:12] \o/ [18:11:31] yay [18:11:34] lighting sucks actually seeing the people [18:11:45] *not [18:11:49] * matanya is happy with what damon said [18:11:52] greg-g: So we need some supertrooper lights? [18:12:29] 17 [18:12:31] iirc [18:13:22] I liked that answer :) [18:13:33] csteipp: :) [18:13:38] csteipp: welcome back, btw [18:13:45] what is Damon's IRC nick? [18:13:45] dawww [18:13:49] gnubeard [18:14:00] Oh, dang. I totally talked to gnubeard a while back.. I thought he was a reporter [18:14:05] :) [18:14:21] hehe, thanks [18:14:24] hi mutante [18:14:27] csteipp: mole! [18:14:30] rfarrand: +1 to dawww [18:14:31] csteipp, did you leak gnubeard's hire to gnubeard? [18:14:33] ;) [18:14:49] matanya: :) [18:14:57] More IRC lurking by C-levels.... Hm. :) [18:15:14] (That's your cue, everyone. Questions!) [18:15:15] Questions, all? [18:15:20] \o/ yay [18:15:30] Questions from anyone here? [18:15:33] :) [18:15:36] I have a question for Damon: I’ve heard that you have a really neat car. Is it really a lowrider? [18:16:11] more serious question: there’ve been plans for engineering reorg, is there a timeline on that now? or coming up soon? :D [18:16:20] heh @brandon [18:16:22] gj softballing jorm [18:16:25] Wooo! [18:16:27] :) [18:16:29] nice one [18:16:46] jorm :) [18:16:47] 58 viewers. Another big one. [18:16:49] he's almost as good a troll as hashar [18:16:57] Oh god [18:17:02] Why would he use our wikitext [18:17:03] It's awful [18:17:11] why would anyone? ;) [18:17:22] marktraceur: people copy excel all the time because its popular [18:17:24] Stu was in same position, cared about the project, did not edit much, but provided insane amount of value to the org [18:17:25] marktraceur: Least-bad. [18:17:25] marktraceur: feel free to help MozillaWIki move to VisualEditor ;) [18:17:31] jorm: add some "what the hell do you know" comments [18:17:32] Indeed! [18:17:42] +1 on brion's question for Damon :) [18:17:45] marktraceur, VE has been around for a while now. ;) [18:17:48] so, I have a question: Which language is MediaWiki going to be rewritten to? [18:17:53] Rust?!!?! [18:18:00] Bah, MissGayle stole the question. [18:18:16] domas, I thought it was going to be Go? [18:18:17] sorry James! Take the next one :) [18:18:17] AWESOME! [18:18:21] victorgrigas: how about relaying the qs about the Dude? I didn’t see an answer on the staff list [18:18:22] domas: Clearly it's F# time. [18:18:29] :) [18:18:29] superm401: he's from mozilla, it has to be Rust. I'd do in Go though! [18:18:45] JS... clearly [18:18:50] domas: you can't have mediawiki without exceptions [18:18:50] domas: BF [18:18:54] we need a php-to-js compiler :D [18:19:04] By the way, I am assuming that lunch will be late, I hope that's OK because I want to hear all the presentations on the agenda... [18:19:05] ICS Span onfcontrol! [18:19:37] manybubbles: Yes, and excel is broken, which is why LibreOffice is broken now [18:19:38] each manager can have no more than 8 direct reports in an emergency [18:19:41] YES YES [18:19:41] Awesome job guys [18:19:44] marktraceur: yup [18:19:52] James_F, why not OCaml? That's a functional language, and then we won't have to port texvc. :) [18:19:58] rfarrand: I think Anasuya has something like 20 direct reports now. [18:20:00] @DarTar:You ask! [18:20:01] +2 for giving managers a sane head count [18:20:02] nodejs [18:20:03] superm401: Bah. [18:20:15] oh come on, these are serious! [18:20:24] Not directly, and Anasuya is working on that. But yes, +gazilliion for managers having a sane headcount [18:20:27] Pine: wow [18:20:35] Oh, so he hasn't talked to gwicke about Haskell yet [18:20:46] good practical question max :D [18:20:57] Has he seen the glory that is Common Lisp yet? [18:21:07] Commons Lisp? oh dear [18:21:32] rfarrand, MissGayle: I think it's ok though, because as far as I can tell all the reports are good and Grantmaking runs as smooth as butter. :) [18:21:53] someone tell him it is WMF, no quick changes :D [18:21:56] hello guillom :) [18:22:10] Hey :) Sorry for being late, I was having dinner. [18:22:12] i was wrong, its 7: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_Command_System#Span_of_control [18:22:19] James_F: OH! [18:22:24] If we rewrite in parser functions, then we'd be able to use a lot of talent from the projects [18:22:24] brion: More clearly, we should re-write the DB layer into EDDI. [18:22:25] James_F: does he know that we're deploying RIGHT NOW?! [18:22:29] hi guillom :) [18:22:29] another question, will he try to move engineering faster at the cost of worsening relationships with the project community? :) [18:22:30] greg-g: :-) [18:22:41] greg-g: Want me to ask? [18:22:42] or other external communities [18:22:45] James_F: yes please [18:22:47] Kk. [18:22:57] +1 to domas's question [18:23:12] +1 from me too [18:23:14] (i'd rephrase a bit but it's interesting - speed vs. communication) [18:23:26] milimetric: did you ever try communicating with community? [18:23:26] or less cruelly phrased — how does he intend to work with the community to communicate better about what we develop, deploy, and how/when? [18:23:27] doh. [18:23:41] what the fuck, people, don't hijack my question [18:23:43] :-D [18:23:44] lol [18:23:57] :) #onlyhisfourthday [18:24:02] Yeah. [18:24:06] +1 to brion's version. [18:24:06] domas you are just upset people are hijacking your troll role [18:24:09] he’ll be in learning mode for awihle [18:24:18] +1 to domas original version :) [18:24:28] I’m liking his approach a lot - thoughtful, absorbing, and also just being really excited about people and ideas. [18:24:31] I want to hear his diplomacy skills [18:24:35] agree MissGayle [18:24:38] MissGayle: you're HR, of course you like that [18:24:40] Jan-Bart: don't steal domas 's joy [18:25:03] i like this guy [18:25:04] /o\ [18:25:09] James_F: did Brion's version [18:25:16] * James_F is evil, sorry. [18:25:17] “ship high quality” <- hey that’s good :D [18:25:24] lets be clear here: no one wants to steal Domas’ joy, and even if we wanted to, we would be unable to [18:25:41] :) [18:25:43] I like a lot of things beyond being HR. :) [18:25:50] ohai [18:25:57] We're a failure then [18:25:59] Continuous deployment! [18:26:03] oh look, diplomacy [18:26:09] * halfak waits for greg-g's response. [18:26:12] Hopefully that means continuous integration for browser tests is coming. [18:26:15] it's a good answer [18:26:27] yep [18:26:31] Dang. [18:26:31] yeah, fourth day answer [18:26:34] hahaha [18:26:41] superm401: Indeed. [18:26:44] superm401: Real Soon Now(TM) [18:26:44] give the guy a chance :) [18:26:46] \o/ [18:26:47] +1 to that answer. [18:26:49] +1 we are the community [18:26:53] Hm, flat orgs can imply large spans of control for supervisors [18:26:57] There's a tradeoff there [18:26:59] "communities" [18:27:00] it is a plural [18:27:02] awesome that he has this much depth so early [18:27:03] superm401: but really, not soon [18:27:17] :( [18:27:23] Mozilla is a pretty cool place, too ;) [18:27:24] Pine: Or a cluster of smaller, more focussed organisations. [18:27:29] greg-g: We should talk. :-) [18:27:33] superm401: help appreciated :) we just don't have the bandwidth right now [18:27:35] I really like this guy. :D [18:27:36] He’s very approachable. [18:27:39] I’m a fan. [18:27:39] finally ! ( we are doing it within the community) [18:27:51] +1 to approachable [18:27:55] greg-g, is there a bug for it, so I can read up on the issues? [18:27:56] Please be patient with him too. :) [18:28:05] mutante: indeed! [18:28:06] dumb question: “where’s your desk?” [18:28:11] superm401: maybe, it's a big project [18:28:16] a LOT of moving parts [18:28:18] Only 10? [18:28:18] brion, right across from where I am [18:28:23] Eloquence_mm: thanks :D [18:28:24] brion: next to Eloquence_mm [18:28:25] also, superm401, /join #wikimedi-qa ;) [18:28:30] that is all, 2000 ? [18:28:31] James_F: What about us remote folk? How do I stop by your desk? [18:28:33] James_F: a cluster of small focused orgs... I don't follow how that relates to span of control or "flatness" [18:28:53] greg-g, hmm, it seems much of the QUnit infrastructure should be leveragable. That is already spinning up a wiki and running code in a real browser (phantomjs). [18:28:54] ah related question — will damon be regularly available on irc for remoties? [18:28:57] * bawolff is quite impressed [18:29:03] now 2000 users will tap him in the back [18:29:05] +1 to brion. [18:29:06] James_F: what was his way of working effectively, as a team manager/leader, with a highly distributed team? [18:29:10] Pine: I can give you an MBA worth of background on organisational theory, but now is not the time. :-) [18:29:14] halfak: IRC maybe? Is he on IRC? [18:29:18] greg-g: +1 [18:29:20] +1 to brion [18:29:30] He said he really likes IRC [18:29:31] and related to brion's q - what's his irc nick? [18:29:31] he's on IRC, his nick is gnubeard [18:29:32] rfarrand, Wanted to ask him what he expected/preferred [18:29:32] Bah, last question. [18:29:39] a data person! [18:29:42] milimetric: ahha thanks! [18:29:44] Not in the staff channel yet AFAIK. [18:29:46] James_F: I have a rather dim views of MBAs after seeing how they work in large banks. [18:29:47] awjr: gnubeard [18:29:52] matanya: :) [18:29:56] Also where's our bouncer, Chad? [18:29:57] superm401: yeah, to an extent that could be the majority of it [18:29:59] Grrr he not here. [18:30:10] Pine: That seems to be an unfortunate approach if you want to talk about management theory. :-) [18:30:11] We have some great MBAs though - Howie, Garfield, etc. [18:30:16] MissGayle: Indeed! [18:30:28] Hm, good exceptions [18:30:44] This would be an interesting subject for a study [18:30:51] what about women in engineering? :) [18:30:52] I think we hire great exceptions to the normal MBA-types that business schools produce [18:30:53] Mobile phones: Don't have browsers. [18:31:00] hey! api through shell! [18:31:10] I know that after the financial system meltdown some of the big business schools were, thankfully, thinking about what they should have done differently to form their business students [18:31:11] * brion tosses a pile of firefoxos phones at marktraceur [18:31:12] eval.php [18:31:13] wget! [18:31:24] marktraceur, time to bring back the MediaWiki OS (for mobile)... [18:31:27] or, well, you know, SELECT. [18:31:28] brion: the fuzzy distinction between "has" and "are"? [18:31:36] marktraceur, ? [18:31:37] today I could probably read directly off innodb files [18:31:38] hehe [18:31:43] :D [18:31:45] poor you [18:31:51] Oh god, we should have asked about other projects [18:31:53] woa his answer on giving people a voice took an awesome turn [18:31:55] He said "Wikipedia" a lot [18:32:01] marktraceur: who cares about other projects [18:32:07] domas: Damn it, you're right. [18:32:08] marktraceur: you don't well WMF to others by talking about other projects [18:32:10] sell [18:32:17] are there other projects? :P [18:32:21] nope. [18:32:21] By the way... this meeting is running pretty long, are we going until 12:30ish? [18:32:22] OK, so, we're only 25 minutes overdue so far. Ahem. :-) Next topic is a quick update from Lila. [18:32:23] WikiSpecies! [18:32:25] 852 of them [18:32:29] wikidata willr eplace them all :D [18:32:38] not replace - refactor :) [18:32:40] :D [18:32:49] clap clap [18:32:52] clap clap clap [18:32:57] clap! [18:33:01] * milimetric applauds and feels warm and fuzzy [18:33:04] welcome! [18:33:09] I was honestly impressed with his answers [18:33:31] +1 to brion. everything will be merely a frontend to wikidata [18:33:32] He’s been wonderful throughout the whole recruiting process. I was delighted. [18:33:40] I don't mean to rush this useful discussion though, I would welcome an IRC office hour with Damon [18:33:49] Agreed. I’ll recommend that. [18:33:53] Thanks. [18:33:53] mutante: Probably not for long-form content like Wikipedia articles. [18:33:56] marktraceur, yeah, I need to remember to talk about sister projects. [18:33:57] to pine - re IRC office hour with Damon [18:34:04] Pine: I'm sure one will happen soon. :-) [18:34:21] greg-g, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53697 ? [18:34:21] MissGayle: give him 100 days of merci :) [18:34:39] Ah, strategy update I hope! [18:34:55] superm401: good enough, yeah [18:35:04] Wait? We gave feedback? [18:35:10] * halfak searches his email [18:35:19] * greg-g shakes head [18:35:37] I don't remember the ask for feedback either :/ [18:35:40] halfak: BTW, thanks for sending out that email to Analytics and Research. [18:36:07] n/p Pine :) I think I might have new collaborator for us. More on that later. [18:36:12] cool [18:36:18] Does he have an MBA? [18:36:22] Nope. CS prof [18:36:24] halfak: By "staff" Lila means Directors; it's not been iterated yet. [18:36:28] Heh, OK. [18:36:33] Thanks James_F. [18:36:46] halfak: The next time around it'll be wider. [18:36:48] halfak: woo CSS prof! [18:36:51] I'm so confused by what this "process" is. It's a struggle to keep talking about it without know what is going on. [18:36:51] err, CS Prof [18:36:58] YuviPanda: CSS Professor sounds awesome. [18:37:05] heheh [18:37:06] haha :) [18:37:08] YuviPanda: CSS Professor of Flex Box model. [18:37:46] CSS Professor sounds like a relative of Clippy [18:37:47] James_F: I can see the TV show and movie based on that idea. It's amazing [18:37:53] “it looks like you’re trying to float an image!" [18:38:00] * James_F sniggers. [18:38:15]