[18:57:25] metrics! [18:57:28] * guillom waves. [18:58:23] The soundtrack for this metrics meeting meeting is very jazzy. [18:58:38] also, meeting meeting! [18:59:51] guillom: soundtrack? [19:00:00] link? [19:00:01] for us perpetually lost - the link? [19:00:02] standing by... [19:00:12] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKw2u_TIx20&feature=youtu.be [19:00:13] rfarrand: collab space soundtrack [19:00:15] thanks! [19:00:44] guillom: oh! [19:01:49] Although it's barely audible now with everyone talking so loud :) [19:03:32] Hey everyone. [19:03:32] just checking, the stream has not started yet, right? [19:03:38] Hasn't started for me [19:03:39] zeljkof: Just about to start. [19:03:40] no [19:03:49] There it goes! [19:03:52] thanks James_F and chrismcmahon [19:03:54] yes [19:03:57] :-) [19:05:23] Ouch, feedback. [19:05:27] (Sorry everyone.) [19:05:32] Erik mic [19:05:34] Can't hear erik [19:05:49] Louder! [19:05:55] Ow ow. [19:05:57] erik is hard to hear [19:06:04] he's better now [19:06:07] yup [19:07:25] I'm doing AV, please comment here with Audio/Video notes [19:07:57] \o/ [19:07:59] go YuviPanda [19:08:17] Oh what happened? [19:08:23] cndiv: everything is great atm [19:08:24] Am I the only person not watching? [19:08:52] rfarrand: Thanks for the comment. [19:09:48] are we live tweeting the meeting? it's a bit delayed if so :) [19:10:19] HaeB: usually does it [19:10:25] i kinda like Erik sound effects [19:10:36] whoosshhhhhhwwwwooo [19:10:58] What was the ARG!? [19:12:18] halfak: Google Docs keeps crashing. [19:12:28] gj Google [19:12:29] Gotcha [19:13:02] Oh, that will go well [19:13:03] Yay technology issues. [19:13:30] How many Google products, exactly, can die in a Google browser, during a one-hour meeting? [19:13:37] no sound [19:13:43] Are we supposed to be seeing a video? [19:13:43] marktraceur: All of them. [19:13:48] Yes, it's coming. [19:13:50] Oh christ, the sound cut out. [19:13:52] Again. [19:13:58] I just see people staring at the screen [19:13:58] cndiv [19:14:00] no sound [19:14:00] YouTube: [19:14:01] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrgUTbqIrys [19:14:02] Commons: [19:14:04] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jack_Andraka_on_Wikipedia_--_keepitfree.webm [19:14:04] marktraceur: We know. You're over a minute behind reality, remember. [19:14:05] Vimeo: [19:14:05] https://vimeo.com/113547882 [19:14:09] <3 virt [19:14:17] er just lost audio [19:14:17] This is fascinating [19:14:18] * victorgrigas [19:14:19] Yeah, it's kind of crap software. Was iffy here too/. [19:14:26] sounds back [19:14:31] Did you see the video the fourth time? :-) [19:14:36] Had to hit the test sound for sound to work the fourth time. [19:14:37] no [19:14:44] Bah. [19:14:47] Back to normal now? See the green slide, erik talking? [19:14:52] normal now [19:14:54] ok [19:15:12] Victor - beautiful job. [19:15:19] greg-g: ah, good. I physically poked c.ndiv because I thought the stream had lost sound after the video [19:15:51] Did you all actually see the video and hear the audio eventually? [19:15:55] thanks MissGayle :) [19:15:55] we haven't actually tried that before. [19:16:00] and it's obviously iffy. [19:16:11] cndiv: we saw people looking at the video, no sound [19:16:14] (Reminder to throw questions my way.) [19:16:16] (well, I did) [19:16:37] Wonder if it's *supposed* to work with Hangouts on air. [19:16:44] cndiv: Yeah. :-( [19:16:46] Is the ISS on the list of regions? [19:17:28] marktraceur: DVD Region 8, you mean? [19:17:42] Sure. [19:17:44] marktraceur: A while ago we got a donation from Antarctica. Imagine if we could get one FROM SPACE. [19:18:01] guillom: Right? That would rock. [19:18:22] It took me a while to realize there was actually text in the background of the slides [19:18:25] It wasn't just a watermark [19:18:43] marktraceur: The slides are linked. [19:19:02] Yup [19:19:54] Which numbers [19:19:55] What [19:20:05] marktraceur: Is that a question? [19:20:07] 'this number and this number'? [19:20:12] which numbers was toby talking about? [19:20:19] he must've been pointing IRL :) [19:20:22] James_F: He said "this number and this number" and all we saw was an unmoving screen. [19:20:50] marktraceur: Oh, right. He pointed at a GS and GN comparative number. [19:21:00] OK. [19:21:14] Not sure which ones, sorry. [19:21:28] patagonia hackathon! [19:21:55] toby dropped out for a second [19:22:00] rfarrand: If you run it I'll attend. :-) [19:22:01] Lost audio again, cndiv [19:22:03] Briefly. [19:22:09] sound it back [19:22:11] *is [19:22:16] back now? [19:22:19] yeah - audio's been cutting out here and there [19:22:20] Yeah [19:22:21] yea [19:22:21] Nothing changed on this end. [19:22:25] bha. [19:22:27] bah. [19:22:39] yeah, I'm not changing anything on this end, seems stable. [19:23:15] yeah, dropped out again [19:23:20] bahhh [19:23:28] Sorry all, I don't think I have any control on that. [19:23:36] Hopefully it doesn't affect the recording. [19:24:27] Can we buy a mobile-only encyclopedia? [19:24:48] we don't want to be facebook [19:25:34] matanya: We want everyone on Earth to use "our" content. [19:25:40] Is one of the major reasons we're behind the curve in terms of social media that we don't/won't allow "share on twitter!" links? [19:26:03] that we do want James_F, I agree. [19:26:05] matanya: To a first approximation, isn't that the same objective? Sure, they want to do it for money and "building the social Web" and all that stuff, but that's secondary. [19:26:22] Q: will the presentation slides be published as pdfs? [19:26:33] cndiv: we do seem to actively discourage social media [19:26:35] James_F: i wouldn't set them as a model [19:26:54] aschmidt: Generally we put them on Commons as PDFs, yes. [19:27:04] ebernhardson: I don't have a strong opinion either way, but that seems like an obvious reason why we're behind the curve. We don't encourage it. [19:27:44] cndiv: well, i think the other half is the geeky nature of wikipedians. Talk to people at a wikimania and you will meet many people that are incredibly privacy concious and don't like alot of social media [19:28:15] James_F: ah, thx. just found https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Foundation_Metrics_and_Activities_Meetings,_2014 [19:28:18] ebernhardson: But aren't those people a small percentage of the overall "I read wikipedia" crowd? [19:28:18] and..... totally dropping [19:28:21] audio and video [19:28:23] back now [19:28:29] Connection troubles [19:28:31] I blame the rain. [19:28:32] wmf logo here now [19:28:34] aschmidt: Yeah. [19:28:36] and gone back :) [19:28:40] crap, it's all normal here. [19:28:52] problems seem to be network related [19:28:54] refresh your streams? [19:28:55] FWIW I'm secondarily streaming it here to check and it [19:28:57] 's [19:28:58] Bah. [19:28:59] 'cause video stopped too [19:29:06] James_F: you're having issues too? [19:29:07] … and it's perfectly rock-solid from here. [19:29:09] cndiv: No. [19:29:18] James_F: Were there no free tools available? :( [19:29:21] Must be that wonderful WMF office network. :-) [19:29:27] cndiv: It's behind by 60 seconds or so, but the video is working flawlessly. [19:29:29] Bonus points for making a frowny face as you ask. [19:29:35] James_F: OK good. [19:29:42] marktraceur: No. :-( [19:29:45] Aw. [19:30:21] cndiv: most likely yes, but they are also the most vocal so with a lack of hard data we end up listening to them i think. The recent push to collect and make more decisions based on data may swing us more into the favor of social media perhaps [19:31:10] cndiv, some of the wikis do have those "share" buttons. (I'm trying to find examples, now...). The main objection on other wikis, has historically been (IIRC) A) their logos looking ugly in our articles, if they're prominently displayed. B) the arguably-implied endorsement of particular companies/services. [19:31:17] ^ beware the data bearing gifts :) [19:31:22] marktraceur: Tell me about it. It's almost like most new professional tools don't have FLOSS clones made immediately. [19:31:26] marktraceur: But it sucks. [19:32:11] James_F: Part of me is yelling "then do we really need this?" but whatever [19:33:20] cndiv, ah, here's the roundup page: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Social_media_plugins [19:33:20] can’t we have a ‘download the app’ popup when you go to the mobile web ? [19:33:41] victorgrigas: I hate those on most other sites [19:33:44] If we want to increase social referrals, and if Mobile apps is a great place to experiment with features, have we considered using the native "Share" functionality in Android / iOS etc. to share stuff directly from the Wikipedia app to social networks? [19:33:51] Or is that something we already do? [19:34:01] guillom: Good question. Deskana|Away is |Away. [19:34:03] * guillom confesses to not using the app very often. [19:34:11] i use it all the time [19:34:23] victorgrigas: Crack cocaine? [19:34:29] guillom: On iOS the share button includes local things, yes. [19:34:36] guillom: at least on android there's support for sharing [19:34:46] guillom: So for me, Facebook, Twitter, iMessage and e-mail. [19:35:04] more like a glass of wine [19:35:25] * rfarrand googles normcore [19:35:26] oh, Deskana, is it a known issue that the search eye-glass icon is not visible in the Dark theme on android? [19:35:40] "Farmville of Knowledge" = new tagline. :-) [19:35:43] Someone pinged me? [19:35:50] Deskana: I thought ya'll removed search for the last 2 weeks, but just now switched back to light theme and it's there [19:35:51] greg-g: michael and i have been (kinda) livetweeting in recent months, but we're a bit busy with other thing today and also, slides weren't available in advacne this time, which makes it harder to prepare [19:36:18] greg-g: We thought we'd fixed that. What version are you running? [19:36:20] HaeB: yeah, no worries, just curious [19:36:24] ..that said, if you have nice ideas for tweets, just post them here and i'll review and post them quickly [19:36:33] greg-g: If you go to the menu, "More", then "About the Wikipedia app" it'll have the release. [19:36:54] (we're talking about https://twitter.com/wikimedia ) [19:36:56] Like buttons? [19:37:01] Can we have Like Buttons yet? [19:37:10] James_F: Just checked the Android sharing functionality by testing in twitter: it just posts the URL, which isn't ideal, but a start, I guess. [19:37:12] (don't actually ask.) [19:37:22] 2.0-beta-2014-11-03 [19:37:26] Deskana: ^ [19:37:39] guillom: The iOS one posts the link and the title. [19:37:47] Deskana: google play says it's up to date [19:37:54] * James_F doesn't have an Android device to test with. [19:37:58] greg-g: I can see the search lens in dark theme here, same version [19:38:25] greg-g: Yeah, we need to push another beta. [19:38:28] I can't see the search lense, and I can BARELY see the "W" [19:38:38] James_f: Q for Maryana -- Do we know that people are struggling to find related content? Aren't links awesome for this sort of thing? [19:38:40] Trending™ [19:38:47] dark on dark don't work :) [19:38:58] guillom: that depends on your twitter client, Fenix posts both title and URL [19:39:06] halfak: Sure. [19:39:12] Thanks! [19:39:27] marcoil: interesting. Thanks :) [19:39:28] halfak: (Questions are at the end in today's format, apparently.) [19:39:40] Understood. [19:39:49] I still think we should have ‘download the app’ on the mobile web page, one closure and dont show it to that user again [19:39:56] Maryana: {{cn}} [19:40:08] victorgrigas, personally, I HATE those calls to action. [19:40:20] victorgrigas: A one-view central notice? Hmm. A bit spammy. Deskana? [19:40:23] whay are they there? [19:40:28] why [19:40:38] because they help distribute the app [19:40:46] victorgrigas: But do they help readers? [19:40:49] But as a user, I want my content. [19:40:54] +1 James_f [19:40:55] victorgrigas: Getting more app downloads isn't an objective. [19:41:00] victorgrigas: It's making readers happy. [19:41:10] yeah and the app is better than the mobile web [19:41:15] Right, and at the minute all of the stuff Maryana is presenting is stuff we're either doing or going to do. [19:41:16] victorgrigas: If the app is very clearly much better than the Web view, maybe we should push it. [19:41:21] The app, right now, is not much better than mobile web. [19:41:30] OK. [19:41:40] i disagree [19:41:43] Deskana: So it might be something you consider in the future if it's worth it? [19:41:47] the nearby feature is amazing [19:41:51] James_F: Indeed, yes. [19:42:00] * James_F nods. Thanks, Deskana. [19:42:02] Mobile South! [19:42:04] But, we're not there yet. [19:42:26] greg-g: Thanks for the report, btw. :) [19:43:07] Deskana: Stop making the mobile site so great, so that the apps can become better and we can advertise them more!!!! [19:43:07] BTW, you can ask questions on the Q&A portion of the video stream. [19:43:17] Deskana: Loved the abundance of ideas! [19:43:29] Only saying because no-one's asked a question there yet, so maybe it's invisible. [19:43:51] Deskana: no problem! kept meaning to say something/report something, but all this "mobile mobile mobile mobile mobile" today reminded me [19:44:12] guillom: Don't blame me for mobile web! I'm the apps guy. ;) [19:44:20] James_F: I don't see it [19:44:52] greg-g: You have to click the "join in" link. [19:45:02] greg-g: I was entirely blind to it until Chip pointed it out. [19:45:15] greg-g: Go go YouTube's design. [19:45:16] Deskana: Then get to work and make the apps better! Farmville them now! [19:46:02] greg-g: You end up at https://plus.google.com/u/0/hangouts/onair/watch?hid=hoaevent%2Fcihni7c02bhhjgvq74i8r50qs3g&wpsrc=yta&ytl=jKw2u_TIx20 or similar with a Q&A tray to the right. [19:46:49] Where is this "join in" link? [19:47:06] to be precise, the 2008 reader+editor survey was a bit larger https://blog.wikimedia.org/2009/04/16/first-preliminary-results-from-unu-merit-survey-of-wikipedia-readers-and-contributors-available/ [19:47:11] Oh! Click the link. [19:47:11] :) [19:47:20] I'm having visions of a Tamagotchi-like feature in the mobile app where your Wikipedia editor slowly writes less and less if you don't feed them every day. [19:47:26] (130k questionnaires completed) [19:47:39] halfak: If it's better, maybe we should stop advertising the youtube.com link and give the plus.google.com one instead? [19:47:43] (Thoughts welcome.) [19:47:45] guillom: I want that [19:48:04] +1 for advertising the "plus" link [19:48:44] It has less advertising and random other people's videos. :-) [19:48:51] James_F: I'm not sure if the plus.google link gives access to the Q&A thing [19:49:00] cndiv: It did for me. [19:49:13] Those graphs match pretty well. [19:49:13] cndiv: But we should experiment offline. [19:49:20] James_F: sure [19:49:28] cndiv: I volunteer to help out later if you need a second pair of hands/eyes. [19:49:39] James_F: Thank You :-) [19:54:58] heard my name :) [19:56:25] That didn't address my question at all :( [19:56:57] halfak: Is this about the "Related content" work in apps that was presented? [19:57:03] Yup. [19:57:10] Questions were pushed to the end [19:57:12] I can answer then. [19:57:33] http://xkcd.com/214/ [19:57:38] ^ Seems like we do pretty good [19:58:07] Just because we do good doesn't mean we can't do more. :) [19:58:08] anyone in the room want to raise the question: is the rise in global south pageviews to enwiki, or to local wikis? [19:58:18] halfak: For desktop male privileged white Global North users? [19:58:21] another question: does the decrease in latin america correspond to a decrease in the eswiki project? (i'm trying to determine this w/ Ironholds' tools, but w/o success yet) [19:58:32] Oh. So recommendations work better for non-white-male users? [19:58:36] James_F, ^ [19:58:46] halfak: This work isn't based on the hypothesis that there are difficulties in finding related content. :) [19:58:46] halfak: I think that if people /want/ to find content, they find it esily, but the features Maryana is talking about aim IIUC at helping readers find content they might not know they want to read. [19:59:02] halfak: I think joke anecdotes aren't good answers to serious questions. :-) [19:59:12] guillom, the point I'm making is that links do that really well. [19:59:23] who's the guy at the sound board? [19:59:43] halfak: Right, but since what we're proposing is additive to that, what's the harm? :) [20:00:04] Deskana, no harm. I'm just wondering why we think it is worth the effort. [20:00:28] halfak: Do simple link manage to entice people to read more as much as, for example, a picture, headline and short introduction? [20:00:28] halfak: Yeah, I don't think there's an answer other than "everyone else does it and it works for them". [20:00:48] halfak: But I think it's worth exploring whether it's helpful. [20:00:56] guillom, see hovercards [20:01:00] Thank you everyone. [20:01:06] halfak: those don't work on mobile AFAIK [20:01:18] cndiv: Eloquence likes to keep you on your toes by walking around, eh? :) [20:01:28] guillom, Sure. Seemingly they could though. [20:01:33] marktraceur: That made me chuckle as well :) [20:01:35] marktraceur: And everyone else loves presenting from almost inside the kitchen. [20:01:43] thanks! [20:01:49] halfak: but... how do you hover without a mouse? :) Hover your finger over a link? [20:01:51] thanks! [20:02:08] * cscott sigh [20:02:09] guillom, good Q. Shall we design something right here and now? [20:03:34] Now I'm going to try going back to actually taking my sick day. [20:03:35] halfak, guillom, yup, it's possible: See the "reference tooltips" settings dialog: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Reference_Tooltips_options_menu.png (which prateek is hoping to eventually incorporate in hovercards) [20:03:35] halfak: Not sure I'd be of much help. The last thing I designed was the UploadWizard, and Design people don't seem too thrilled about it these days :D [20:04:15] guillom: Mobile "hover" events are fired when the accelerometer detects a small upward motion and the GPS detects a stable altitude shift. [20:04:19] guillom, this is an asside, but I like the upload wizard. :) I use it all of the time. It's a massive improvement over direct upload. [20:04:19] But if anyone does have any questions about mobile apps, feel free to send me an email. :) [20:05:16] Deskana, is there an appropriate forum to discuss planned work by the mobile team(s)? [20:05:27] halfak: mobile-l [20:05:27] mobile list? [20:05:31] kk [20:05:55] AFAIK most of the stuff Maryana presented is the stuff that my team will be working on [20:06:11] Her team is also going to be doing some readership stuff though, in addition to Wikigrok [20:28:38] James_F: still around ? [20:34:23] matanya: Here now.