[17:49:46] I have arrived. [17:52:41] * Helder too [18:00:13] * lvillaWMF waves [18:47:10] Ohai lvillaWMF [18:47:29] ohai marktraceur [18:47:52] * lvillaWMF is fake James_F today, since he has a conflict for metrics meeting [18:48:35] Neat. [18:48:44] I'll miss James_F|Away, but it's good we have a replacement. [18:51:58] James_F|Away: are you IRC guy today? [18:52:25] aparently thats lvillaWMF [18:53:05] lvillaWMF: Using the podium? It's easier to put you on camera that way. :-) [18:53:17] lvillaWMF: I'm still directing even though I'm not in the office, haha [18:53:44] sure, should I move over to that side? [18:53:59] Somebody has to tell these chuckleheads how to run a meeting! Might as well be cndiv_. [18:54:05] or, I’m already near the camera-right-hand-side podium [18:54:07] lvillaWMF: Just whereever we can easily turn the camera to you [18:54:14] basically where James usually is [18:54:24] (unintentionally right behind Lila) [18:54:33] marktraceur: I think they got it. [18:54:46] * lvillaWMF is sort of insulted that Praveena was unsure whether or not I IRCd [18:55:10] lvillaWMF: It's okay, the rest of us are unsure whether or not she does. [18:55:56] cndiv_ is the voice of god [18:56:10] Eloquence: I've often thought that about myself. [18:56:29] Eloquence: Everything looks set, you should be good. I'll leave the hangout in just a moment. [18:56:37] cndiv_, noooooo [18:56:44] * guillom waves. [18:56:49] Salut guillom [18:57:09] Eloquence: I guess I can stay but obviously I can't do much from afar. [18:57:13] podiums are overated [18:57:44] cndiv_, your mere presence causes the machines to behave better [18:57:46] good job cndiv_ ! [18:57:57] cndiv_: I had a successful time yelling "MIC" through the hangout yesterday [18:58:09] Eloquence dont jyx it [18:58:37] never say machines behave ;) [18:59:13] marktraceur: I thought that was great. Do that always. [18:59:24] alright, we're about to get started [18:59:24] cndiv_: I would, but I don't want to hog spots on the hangout today. [18:59:35] Also that filled my quota for human interaction for a while. [18:59:43] marktraceur: I tried to design a 'hanging from the ceiling' mic system for the 5th floor, but I was told it would be a feedback factory instead [18:59:44] so [18:59:53] Hm, yeah, that seems like an issue [19:00:30] (IRC needs emoji for cakes, sparkles, etc.) [19:00:43] Happy birthday, Wikipedia. :) [19:01:30] Watching the stream. This is wild, I've never actually done this. [19:01:30] 🎂 [19:01:35] streaming [19:01:44] cndiv_: welcome to our world :-) [19:01:51] cndiv_ is sitting in front of his computer with his arms in the air going "woooooooo" [19:01:51] Getting a prize from the king of the Netherlands is pretty awesome too. [19:02:03] marktraceur: That is literally what I just did. [19:02:06] hah, cndiv_, you are so wild! [19:02:11] I know man. I know. [19:03:12] Welcome, everyone. :) [19:04:11] * guillom considers trolling Erik by bringing up https://quality.wikimedia.org [19:04:27] * rdaiccherlb clicks the link... [19:04:40] oh :/ [19:05:00] guillom: what was that for? measurement of article quality, or…? [19:05:16] lvillaWMF: Let me dig up the link for context [19:07:24] rdaiccherlb: lvillaWMF: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation/19980 [19:07:54] is the room packed? [19:07:59] so who is this that is speaking? [19:08:06] cndiv_: yes [19:08:10] geniice: Erik Moeller [19:08:13] ah [19:08:19] his acent has changed [19:08:23] I don't think focusing on quality drives people away inherently. [19:08:32] But it has to be done postiively and with constructive criticism. [19:08:35] geniice: living in the US will do that to you :) [19:08:36] do we measure the quality of the knowledge or the quality of the presentation? or other things [19:09:03] superm401 reffing is hard work. Wikipedia's popularity was built on unreffed content [19:09:14] geniice, what's reffing? [19:09:21] references [19:09:23] apergos: we can measure many qualities ;) [19:09:36] groan [19:09:40] geniice, proper referencing is only one aspect of quality. But an important one. [19:09:46] I agree referencing has improved over time. [19:09:51] Significantly, in fact. [19:10:00] But we're not there yet. :) [19:10:03] but its also hard work. Writing without refs is faster [19:10:06] Erik mis-paraphrased my point: it was not that some readers attempt to edit and are driven away. It was that the fact the *total* active editor count (on ENWP) has flattened does not suffice to show that the component of the theory of change discussed (viz. [some small fraction of] Readers become Editors) is not true. [19:10:12] ocaasi, right? Am I mixing up my Wikimedians? [19:10:20] apergos! Nice to see you here :) [19:10:30] apergos: speaking of quality, do you remember https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Quality_assessment_tools_for_Wikipedia_readers ? [19:10:30] hey guillom :-) [19:10:44] Indeed, readers spontaneously becoming editors is responsible for the *greatest number* of editors in the projects. [19:11:00] abartov, I think it does show that the small fraction has not remained constant as reach increased. [19:11:06] gi11es: I sure as heck do, I was thinking about it the very minute the theme for today's meeting was announced [19:11:14] er bad tab completion [19:11:18] guillom: [19:11:20] Because the number of editors leaving has never been so massive to offset new people coming in if it *were* a constant fraction. [19:12:02] abartov, I think we're talking about different things here, but we can discuss at the end. [19:12:08] copyright status of the bottem left image? [19:12:25] geniice: Next slide says it's PD. [19:12:30] There's a link but I can hardly see it. [19:12:32] za [19:13:13] superm401: possibly, though I wouldn't confidently accept that without a control. [19:14:28] phrases that I did not expect to hear this morning definitely included support vector machine [19:14:49] you didn't expect that, lvillaWMF? [19:15:22] no, I hadn’t looked at the agenda [19:15:51] * lvillaWMF wishes he’d actually signed up for the neural network class as an undergrad [19:16:38] The blue-on-blue text is hard to read [19:16:47] lvillaWMF, first time I heard about that, I thought it used actual animal neurons. [19:16:49] lvillaWMF, you could watch https://www.coursera.org/course/ml [19:17:22] Ah, that should be a sesson. Always expect support vector machines. [19:17:33] Helder: ooh, cool [19:17:37] lvillaWMF: when I took a law course there were hints that software is replacing more and more work that was done by lawyers at one time. It would be interesting if someone comes up with an AI that's a somewhat competent lawyer, much as people are already talking about doing the same for primary care physicians. [19:17:41] YuviPanda, wow, that guy is *everywhere* [19:18:22] Pine, someone told me they tried that, but it failed because the law is not actually logical and internally consistent. :) [19:18:29] Heh [19:18:47] Pine: there is a lot of interesting work going on there; a friend hosts a conference that sadly I’ve never been to: http://www.robotandhwang.com/2013/01/spring-conference-initializing/ [19:19:40] superm401: maybe relevant: http://www.bricoleur.org/2010/02/in-praise-of-transactional-attorneys.html [19:20:20] M-x lawyer [19:20:48] halfak: excellent pitch, dude [19:21:14] DarTar: +1. I believe there is consensus that halfak is awesome. [19:21:24] lvillaWMF, yeah, following the SCO cases made me realize how hard contract law is. [19:21:36] what a clear explanation [19:21:38] halfak, yeah, very nice talk. [19:21:40] halfak, awesome. thanks. [19:21:44] superm401: The Paper Chase did that for me [19:21:45] Pine: that was out of questions before the presentation, but the last slide is very important :) [19:22:42] So can these things be used to inspire fear? [19:22:58] geniice: Skynet is watching. [19:23:03] geniice: you’ll forgive me if I don’t pass that question on to the room ;) [19:23:27] so what you are saying is I'll continue having to do it the old fashioned way? [19:23:31] (for those joining us late: I’m the temporary James_F|Away so poke me if you have questions you want to have in the room at the end of the day when we get to questions) [19:23:32] 40 watching now [19:23:33] * T13|mobile disables skynet. [19:23:45] oh how long is this talk going to be? [19:23:54] i was expecting like 1 hour [19:23:54] Oh god so many pings [19:23:56] :) [19:23:58] Soapy, the meeting is 1 h r total. [19:24:03] Soapy: total, including Q&A t the end, is 1 hr [19:24:08] being more practice assuming these things are labs based are they going to do something about labs uptime? [19:24:18] ok [19:24:22] What have I missed? [19:24:41] * T13|mobile has no scrollback on mobile. [19:24:43] T13|mobile clubebotNG going multilingal [19:24:48] Are all of these folks using the same template with the same blue text on blue background? Because it's crappy to read. [19:24:50] If you want to talk more about this project (Revision Scoring), find me in #wikimedia-research and the team in #wikimedia-research-ORES [19:24:53] cluebotNG [19:25:04] marktraceur, +1 was enforced [19:25:08] I <3 black and white [19:25:12] Lame sauce [19:25:13] marktraceur: talk to Design? [19:25:16] * DarTar ducks [19:25:22] cndiv_, mic is a little bit hot. [19:25:23] DarTar: Let me ping all the designer on IRC [19:25:28] I'd settle for one click referencing for PLOSone [19:25:35] marktraceur: heatherw is here [19:25:40] geniice: I knew what you meant (and actually read it that way and wouldn't have noticed the typo) [19:25:44] lvillaWMF: Exactly [19:25:59] marktraceur: ah, thought you were being sarcastic [19:26:02] heatherw started in engineering [19:26:07] just sayin ;) [19:26:07] * heatherw waves [19:26:11] lvillaWMF: She's the only one here and not away I think. [19:28:21] By the way, heatherw, you are involved with TWL too, right? That owl looks very heatherwish. [19:28:42] HeatherWish. [19:28:44] haha [19:29:29] I was involved in the set up, yes. [19:29:48] :) [19:30:08] By the way, I continue to think of use cases for TWA. I still like that project. [19:30:45] Pine, we do too - automatic on-ramping is great [19:31:05] :D [19:31:07] Cool. [19:32:23] Wow [19:32:30] lvillaWMF: thoughts on automated "fair use" decisions a la newspapers.com "clippings"? :P [19:32:44] aka, where do you stand on the Google Books case? :) [19:32:57] greg-g: I stand near a case of booze [19:33:13] lvillaWMF: very lawyer, such indirection [19:33:33] lvillaWMF, question for Jake, "Do you think the WMF should also speak more vocally in favor of open access journals?" [19:33:37] such alcoholic [19:33:55] superm401: noted, will ask when we get to question time [19:34:03] wait, there is a new case of booze in the office? [19:34:09] superm401: I would be surprised if there were only three books worth of talk page archives on that subject. [19:34:17] lvillaWMF: I approve of booze, when thinking about Google Books. [19:34:33] I always approve of booze [19:34:34] superm401: do note that we’ve pushed a little in that direction in the last year - see http://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/08/07/new-open-licenses-arent-so-open/ [19:34:38] Franks audio signal sounds a little over modulated [19:34:48] cndiv_: ^^ [19:35:01] lvillaWMF, thanks for the link. [19:35:05] Maybe too much gain? (IANASE) [19:35:07] abartov: it was fun being a "information science" student at U of Michigan when that case started (and knowing the general counsel for IP at UMich). [19:35:13] Not sure if I can contact anyone in the room about it. Remember, I'm not there. [19:35:22] cndiv_: Well crap, who is? [19:35:25] Eloquence_mm: ^^ [19:35:27] superm401: there are also a few other open access posts on the blog, and small things we’ve been doing with other open access groups [19:35:28] I want a one click citation tool for plosone and I want it yesterday [19:35:33] marktraceur: Interns are running this one. [19:35:42] superm401: but obviously TWL represents some practical compromise there [19:35:43] greg-g: ha :) [19:35:49] * marktraceur plays ominous chords [19:35:52] geniice: curious what you mean by one-click? [19:36:13] lvillaWMF, yeah part of the motivation for that question is, do we understand that the TWL strategy has both benefits and drawbacks, and thus are we pressing on other strategies too. [19:36:20] lvillaWMF I click button I get filled it ref template for PLOS one article I'm looking at [19:36:30] conniemj: victorgrigas says that Frank's audio is a little overmodulated. [19:36:40] geniice: I think Cite4Wiki could be enhanced to do that. [19:36:41] I'm hoping that Nate knows what that word means. [19:36:43] * cndiv_ ducks [19:37:26] * lvillaWMF is still excitedly waiting for the VE citation plugin [19:37:27] neither ralph or nate have IRC up just FYI cndiv_ [19:37:29] cndiv_: the gain is on too high [19:37:44] geniice: their metadata is really good, it should be a breeze from an url [19:37:47] cajoel: Ah, OK. [19:37:49] Jake: What is the annual subscription cost per super-user if one was to pay out-of-pocket for those subscriptions? [19:38:04] superm401: I wouldn’t call it well-coordinated yet, but we’re definitely conscious of the issue and thinking about the problem [19:38:22] lvillaWMF: that same thought crossed my mind about the VE citation plugin. Didn't I see jamesofur sneak in here? [19:38:36] Perhaps he can provide an update. [19:38:39] Pine: I think you did see James_F sneak in [19:38:43] I imagine you're thinking about my roommate ;) [19:38:46] both Jameses are here [19:38:50] Ah sorry [19:38:50] Good point about coverage comprehensiveness being an important part of quality. [19:38:54] victorgrigas: not quite clear to me what you mean by super-user? [19:39:11] lvillaWMF, I think he basically means the people eligible for TWL access. [19:39:16] lvillaWMF: he's referring to the term used by Jake. [19:39:26] I.E. frequent/qualifying editors [19:39:28] geniice: would a bookmarklet work for you? [19:39:35] clearly paying too much attention to IRC and missed the term in the deck [19:39:36] lvillaWMF, superm401: yeah [19:39:58] question noted [19:40:21] MartijnH does it work in opera? [19:40:37] James_F to the white courtesy telephone, please, for a question about the VE citation plugin. [19:40:48] I don't think nerdiness actually helps write articles content-wise. [19:40:54] this is the last update I can find: http://blog.mvolz.com/tag/citoid/ [19:41:00] I think that's just a legacy of who was on the early internet, and how MediaWiki's technology developed. [19:41:02] Pine: Sorry, I was scheduled in other meetings and I've missed the entirety of the context. [19:41:03] geniice: probably. I'll get back to you after the talks [19:41:18] james_f: just asking for an update about the VE citation plugin's status. [19:41:23] Pine: Ask a question here and I might respond, but I'm going to have to watch the video of Metrics. [19:41:46] Pine: "Coming soon". :-) We need to get the service actually deployed facing humans and get the code merged, but we're close. [19:41:54] OK thank you :) [19:41:58] s/might respond/might be able to usefully respond/ [19:42:12] see also https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/62/ [19:42:13] Obviously I respond to questions. :-) [19:42:38] oh dear [19:42:39] much phabricator fu from lvillaWMF [19:43:00] jamesofur: lvillaWMF is full of fu. [19:43:01] students writing wikipedia articles as asignments [19:43:01] lvillaWMF: Thanks! [19:43:05] * lvillaWMF thinks wistfully of bugzilla [19:43:13] someone is a bit behind the time [19:43:31] I appreciate Phabricator, TYVM. [19:43:33] lvillaWMF: alas, poor Bugzilla. I knew it well. (and hacked on it, aeons ago.) [19:43:52] geniice, lvillaWMF : citoid (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Citoid ) was also presented at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Metrics_and_activities_meetings/2014-08 [19:44:39] abartov: yes, my first gig out of school involved hacking on bugzilla (among other things), though all of my patches got rewritten by more comptent hackers before going upstream [19:44:55] lvillaWMF was, essentially, the first bugmeister [19:44:59] HaeB: Yeah, it's taken a while to get it ready. [19:45:09] mvolz gets the credit for the amazing work to date. [19:45:12] lvillaWMF++ [19:45:18] jamesofur: nah, probably second (mozilla had someone who did it-ish) [19:45:27] ok, first one with the title [19:45:27] ? [19:45:37] certainly the first one with it on a business card ;) [19:45:41] mvolz: I wonder if we can share the scraping code between Citoid and Cite4Wiki [19:45:50] James_F can it talk to plosone? [19:46:13] geniice: It talks to CrossRef, so… yes? [19:46:22] abartov, Citoid shares code with Zotero, which has a huge library of scrapers [19:46:46] Those are both cool logos. [19:47:00] geniice: I'm assuming something to do with PLOS pushes out DOIs? Citoid initially will do URLs but in future DOIs, ISBNs and more. [19:47:07] Eloquence_mm: ah, excellent. So I guess Cite4Wiki should get with the program and use Zotero's stuff too. [19:47:19] abartov: Or just use Citoid? :-) [19:47:26] James_F oh yes they love their DOIs [19:47:26] When will Citoid be rolled out? [19:47:38] ragesoss: Pine: "Coming soon". :-) We need to get the service actually deployed facing humans and get the code merged, but we're close. [19:47:45] James_F: sure. I'm thinking of the old-skool non-VE editors. [19:48:08] abartov: Err. Yes? Citoid is a service. Building the tool for WT and VE alike is our job. :-) [19:48:11] James_F they also love having about a dozen authors which take forever to drop into the templates [19:48:12] citoid should work outside of VE iirc [19:48:15] abartov: We /are/ called the Editing team. [19:48:24] James_F, it can already be tested, though, right? [19:48:25] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mvolz/veCiteFromURL [19:48:31] geniice: Making things easier for editors is our focus. [19:48:46] * abartov smacks his own forehead [19:48:49] superm401: Yes, but don't encourage people to use that; it's a Labs instance with a dummy set of accounts. [19:49:02] good number [19:49:03] James_F: oh right, of course. Then yeah, rewriting to use Citoid might be very cool. [19:49:22] James_F, what service are the accounts for? [19:49:24] abartov: But we need to prove it works first. :-) [19:49:27] James_F try feeding this into it http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21517374 [19:49:31] superm401: CrossReg and other places. [19:49:33] James_F: Tell Schulenburg that Wikimedia DC edit-a-thons have retention rates of 24%. [19:49:38] Ah [19:50:02] 87% by comparison is extremely good [19:50:06] harej: lvillaWMF is today's James_F [19:50:17] geniice: Ah, yes, the CERN result. [19:50:45] harej, the 87% is retention rate for instructors, so it's a different thing. [19:50:49] Still a really good rate, though. [19:50:51] geniice: I believe the {{cite journal}} template tops out at 10 authors or something, but dealing with references properly is a follow-up issue. [19:51:11] harej: for context, the general observed average retention of general-public single-session outreach is below 1% [19:51:21] superm401: the retention rate of instructors, who get new students who are then part of the program. Education Program retention tends to be measured in terms of instructors. [19:57:50] harej: you’re saying that 24% rate is for instructors, or… ? [19:57:50] lvillaWMF: 24% rate for participants. [19:57:50] harej, I know. The figures still mean different things, though. [19:57:50] In 2013–14 we had some 137 participants, of which, 24% attended two or more events. [19:57:50] superm401, harej: indeed, very different figures. [19:57:51] James_F, actually, they fixed that with Lua. :) Now unlimited number of authors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ProveIt_GT/Archives/2013/April#Lua_updates [19:57:51] superm401: You say "fixed", I say "made unmaintainable". ;-) [19:57:51] Same difference [19:57:51] unmaintainable was the old parserfunctions code... [19:57:51] I'm sure the Lua is far more maintainable for other reasons. [19:57:51] It's nice to program in, ya know, a programming language. [19:57:51] (which is still in use in many wikis, due to our infinite forks... =/) [19:57:51] One that doesn't dress up as a markup language for halloween. [19:57:51] Five "programming" languages: wikitext, JavaScript, CSS, parser functions, Lua. What'll be our sixth? [19:57:51] perl, to make abartov and me comfortable [19:57:52] Python. [19:57:52] dont forget abusefilter [19:57:52] 1. CSS is not a programming language. [19:57:52] Lisp. [19:57:52] Pine: Not on-wiki. [19:57:52] 2. Parser functions were never intended to be (hence the problem Lua solves). [19:57:52] lvillaWMF: we have perl in lots of places. enough to make you lose sleep. :P [19:57:52] superm401: Complicated invocations of a computer to do things. Let's not discuss semiotics. :-) [19:57:52] Jake: What is the annual subscription cost per super-user if one was to pay out-of-pocket for those subscriptions? [19:57:52] halfak, FYI you are also on the big screen again [19:57:52] ori: more than all our php? ;) [19:57:52] victorgrigas: yes, I’ll ask it when I get the mic [19:57:52] lvillaWMF: hey, I betrayed Perl for Ruby years ago, and never looked back. [19:57:52] * halfak wonders how he can best take advantage of this opportunity [19:57:52] I probably shouldn't pick my nose. [19:57:52] lvillaWMF: I have lots of good memories and warm feelings for perl, but... no. [19:57:54] Now my nose itches [19:57:57] halfak: Ferret show and tell? [19:58:06] thanks Luis [19:58:07] No ferrets nearby [19:58:41] abartov: tongue firmly in cheek [19:58:41] James_F FORTRAN [19:58:41] :-) [19:58:41] BTW: did you know someone implemented Conway's game of life in parser functions? [19:58:42] ¹ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:%E7%94%9F%E5%91%BD%E6%A3%8B [19:58:51] Helder, no... WHy/ [19:58:54] Hahaha the delayed view of looking around for ferrets [19:59:06] Helder: oh my god. i love this person. [19:59:10] Helder, that's awesome and horrible. [19:59:12] From this I can guess that there's about a one-minute lag. [19:59:26] it seems to be broken nowadays, but someone should really fix that :-) [20:00:10] Helder: awesome hack [20:00:13] DarTar is basically asking the open access question right now, so I won’t re-ask it unless someone wants me to take the slightly different angle [20:01:24] lvillaWMF, yeah, except he didn't pull his punches the way I did. [20:01:37] superm401: DarTar rarely does ;) [20:02:02] lvillaWMF, actually, I'd still like you to ask mine. It's a different emphasis. [20:02:11] superm401: sure [20:02:31] I see two halfakers. [20:02:42] This is good. [20:02:42] a wholefaker? [20:02:51] i heh [20:02:55] oops [20:03:11] Emufarmers: :D [20:03:17] Noo.. Just Acre [20:03:20] Not Faker [20:03:25] "F" is part of half [20:03:26] :-) [20:03:26] :P [20:03:44] asked [20:04:02] note that there are only a few minutes left so we probably won’t get the other IRC questions in [20:04:35] I actually think the WMF level is a good place to help push for this. [20:04:50] If we're willing to push to stop SOPA, we should be willing to push loudly for Open Access. [20:04:57] The latter is much more directly tied to our interests. [20:05:15] PLoS is also on the awesomeness list. [20:05:18] Thanks, lvillaWMF [20:05:22] We're only barely willing to push to keep using open formats... :) [20:05:29] superm401: they’re unfortunately very different kinds of questions [20:05:43] superm401: it’s very easy to organize to say “no” to SOPA [20:05:47] I think we're naturally pushing for OA by citing sources that are OA more often. [20:05:59] I suppose TWL lessens that effect [20:06:06] or at least, relatively very easy when compared to forcing other institutions to completely change their business models [20:06:27] Right, TWL significantly counteracts that and actually strengthens old-school journals. [20:06:35] Leila++ [20:06:42] like any instutition (museums, getty trust, etc) you get them to start by opening up a small part of their holdings [20:06:47] and seeing how they bennefit [20:06:48] lvillaWMF, we don't necessarily need to push the journals directly. We can also get involved in talking to funders and authors. [20:06:49] Indeed. superm401 might only be a short-term stop-gap. [20:06:59] Still easier to find OA material than work with TWL [20:07:22] on the grand scale of the many supports for closed/proprietary journals, TWL is pretty small. But yes, I agree we could do more. [20:07:23] But I hear you. I wonder if we can build resources to make OA even easier. [20:07:29] *citing OA [20:07:40] Open Access as a Service? :) [20:07:41] (tangentially, I think it’s fascinating that a discussion about quality has been entirely about licensing) [20:07:42] halfak, Citoid probably will solve that. [20:07:48] halfak: we've had discussions for years in the Wikimedia world about publishing our own open access journal. [20:07:49] superm401, link? [20:07:52] lvillaWMF: heh [20:07:57] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Citoid [20:08:12] nominally about quality, I mean [20:08:46] plos one is good enough for what it covers [20:08:47] RIP office people. [20:08:50] lvillaWMF, you mean Jake's segment? [20:09:07] thanks! [20:09:18] It's about increasing Wikipedia quality by letting authors read non-freely-licensed content, which makes sense from one point of view. [20:09:19] it's over [20:14:08] superm401: I mean, all the questions were about open access (well, except for Anasuya’s) [20:14:23] superm401: which, while important, was… not quite the goal :) [20:15:02] lvillaWMF, well, it's fair to ask if this approach to quality can lead to downsides elsewhere. [20:16:36] superm401: sure! [20:16:50] just also fair to try to get some diversity in the topics of questions in the Q&A [20:17:01] I didn’t realize the time was so limited, else I wouldn’t have asked the followup [20:17:07] True [20:17:12] (just in the interests of getting other issues out there) [20:17:20] (not that it was bad in and of itself) [20:17:52] Briefly at the start I saw a mention of identifying or creating entirely new communities for quality contributions, but it wasn't mentioned after that I heard. [20:19:20] chrismcmahon: as guillom pointed out earlier, there have been earlier attempts at that ;) [20:21:32] lvillaWMF the mention of seniors in Prague was interesting. Prague has a long history of intellectual pride, it would be good place for that. (as opposed to say Miami) [20:50:48] chrismcmahon: I’m from miami, watch it ;) [20:51:00] (but yes, bridge is a more Miami seniors kind of thing) [20:52:38] lvillaWMF: I live in Tucson right now, so likewise. Golf is big. [20:54:38] hehe, my dad is well into that phase [20:54:46] when I was home over break, a friend of his asked me about editing [20:54:50] (wants to edit about cuban history) [20:54:53] I begged out of it [20:55:08] I did not want to spend my vacation teaching someone about the ins and outs of editing in politics/history articles [20:55:17] no doubt [20:55:50] which is sad :( [20:56:06] (don’t really know how to do something until you’ve taught someone else, etc., etc.) [23:52:22] Hi:-) [23:56:12] Hi:-)