[00:01:12] Quoi de 9 [17:52:09] Wow, almost forgot. :O [17:55:01] ping [17:56:27] pong [17:56:35] thx [17:57:07] * Stryn almost forgot too [18:00:22] * aude waves [18:00:46] hey folks :) [18:01:02] who is here for the wikidata office hour? [18:01:06] me [18:01:12] if my connection stays stable [18:01:17] \o/ [18:01:18] Me! [18:01:20] me too as promised [18:01:25] * jzerebecki waves [18:01:31] * sjoerddebruin was the first. [18:01:36] :D [18:01:42] Sorry, I've eaten all the cookies already. [18:01:48] noooooooooooo [18:01:52] Me :-D [18:02:05] well welcome everyone [18:02:10] what would you like to talk about today? [18:02:24] let's start by collecting some topics [18:02:28] What would YOU like to talk about, Lydia_WMDE? :P [18:02:42] way too many things ;-) [18:02:48] Commons [18:03:07] ok [18:03:08] Lydia_WMDE: do we want the meetbot? [18:03:17] * aude can try to get it to work [18:03:17] aude: do you know how to operate it? [18:03:20] can try [18:03:21] ok [18:03:28] #startmeeting [18:03:28] aude: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' [18:03:35] #startmeeting Wikidata office hours [18:03:36] Meeting started Fri Jan 16 18:03:35 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is aude. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. [18:03:36] Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. [18:03:36] The meeting name has been set to 'wikidata_office_hours' [18:03:49] ok then let's start with commons [18:03:49] Yay! [18:03:56] PKM: do you have specific questions? [18:03:58] (that's for the bot thing btw) [18:04:01] #topic commons [18:04:20] Status of next step on Commons linkage? [18:04:32] ok [18:04:38] so the current state is this: [18:05:05] * commons can access sitelinks and data from items connected to the page directly through a sitelink [18:05:23] * we're working on enabling arbitrary access so you can also access data from other items [18:05:43] it's enabled now on test.wikipedia.org and test.wikidata [18:05:58] i hope we can get that done in february but we've had some setbacks with enabling arbitrary access with usage tracking on wikidata itself just now [18:05:59] https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitten_on_arbitrary_page :) [18:06:20] Does sitelink in this case include the properties Commons Category and Commons Institution page? [18:06:21] once it is running on wikidata we'll go for commons next [18:06:44] tentative to enable usage tracking on wikidata on february 2 [18:06:50] PKM: no [18:07:04] (no deploys the next two weeks, due to mediawiki developer summit and wmf staff meetings) [18:07:11] wut [18:07:27] So I have borked translations for two weeks? [18:07:43] sjoerddebruin: translations are automatically updated, afaik [18:07:48] still would happen [18:08:12] Hmpf, why is there no clear announcement about it? [18:08:17] sjoerddebruin: let's check after this office hour if the dutch translation for that string is done or not yet [18:08:18] Should be in tech news. [18:08:30] Lydia_WMDE: talking about other translations now. [18:08:35] ah [18:08:36] ok [18:08:40] Someone forgot two headers of the sitelink section. [18:08:54] https://www.dropbox.com/s/2q9zxcrsce5yyrc/Schermafdruk%202015-01-16%2019.08.50.png?dl=0 [18:09:20] Fixed that on Wednesday, but that was too late it seems. [18:09:25] ok [18:10:50] sjoerddebruin: do you know if the translation has been done already and is just missing deployment? [18:11:08] The sitelink one? [18:11:11] yeah [18:11:21] Like I said, fixed them Wednesday. [18:11:29] ok [18:11:36] Will Commons Category and Commons Institution be linked in the next phase, or later? [18:11:47] And translations don't go automatic. Experienced that with the holiday break. [18:11:59] It's really annoying to have two breaks in such short time. [18:13:01] PKM: can you clarify what you want linked where please? [18:14:36] sjoerddebruin: if it's so annoying you can locally translate those; e.g. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Wikibase-sitelinks-wikipedia/nl and delete after they comes from translatewiki [18:15:00] I think the Wikidata item should show up in the left tools column when the category or institution page is viewed, unless swollen has a better plan. [18:15:01] Stryn: Well, let's do that then. [18:15:31] I have the wikidata-link-at-the-top option turned on and I really like that. [18:15:38] PKM: hmm that should already be happening. can you point me to an example where it is not? [18:15:57] Maybe there's just a delay on new items [18:16:16] That is, newly made links? [18:16:27] Lydia_WMDE: even when that page has no sitelink to the wd item? [18:16:29] shouldn't matter much [18:16:40] jzerebecki: no it needs a sitelink [18:17:05] * PKM goes to look [18:17:07] Lydia_WMDE: are you sure this works already (a gadget? or something?) [18:17:09] it used to be that translations were updated daily [18:17:24] any clue why this is no longer the case ? [18:17:53] My question would be when can we have the delight of an official query tool ? [18:18:08] heh [18:18:10] well [18:18:11] Intitution:British Museum might be connected to item "Institution:British Museum" [18:18:22] Example: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Institution:Museo_Nazionale_di_San_Matteo,_Pisa [18:18:24] but not to Item "British Museum" [18:18:29] it is being worked on pretty quickly now by Nik, Stas, Gabriel and jzerebecki [18:18:49] i am not going to speculate on a release date [18:18:56] but they are pretty quick [18:19:09] days weeks months years ? [18:19:15] PKM: that page is not site linked on wikidata [18:19:16] currently they are collecting input for which query language to select [18:19:25] #info usage tracking is being enabled (tentatively Feb 2) on Wikidata, then commons is next after (no date yet) [18:19:31] i'd say a few months [18:19:33] I do not mind you to be wrong I prefer you to be realistic [18:19:53] so by Wikimania we might have something [18:20:18] jzerebecki: ? ;-) [18:20:25] As long it's not becoming something like SUL. [18:20:44] I prefer WDQ anyday over nothing [18:20:51] totally [18:21:56] jzerebecki: right, but it's defined as the commons institution page, which as a user I would expect to generate a link. [18:22:21] Having to also make a Commonswiki link seems redundant. [18:22:39] jzerebecki: will there be some room to move tools to the new query environment ? [18:23:13] PKM: agreed. technical details why this is not the case. with arbitrary access i think we can solve this [18:23:21] will it be feasible at all ? [18:23:42] Lydia_WMDE: great, thank you [18:23:45] Lydia_WMDE: sounds realistic, though it is hard say when a public query language will be more reliable than wdq.wmflabs.org [18:23:50] GerardM-: i don't think there is any plan to switch off wdq so as long as it is kept running tools can migrate [18:24:44] #info being worked on pretty quickly now by Nik, Stas, Gabriel and jzerebecki (but don't have date yet for when it is ready) [18:24:49] that is it is up to magnus to decide how much time he wants to put into it and when to shut it down [18:25:38] GerardM-: it is my understanding that one of the goals is to have something that is publicly accessible and at least as powerful as wdq.wmflabs.org but more stable [18:28:10] ok next topic then: have you already provided input on https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:Primary_sources_tool ? [18:28:23] i am sure vrandecic would love some more [18:29:22] #topic Freebase and sources [18:29:33] Yes, the more the merrier! :) [18:29:39] :D [18:29:44] #info https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:Primary_sources_tool [18:29:53] ah, [18:29:55] #link https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata_talk:Primary_sources_tool [18:30:25] vrandecic: anything you are looking for input on in particular? [18:30:55] Freebase identifiers would make it easier to find things right? [18:31:21] they help with the mapping yeah [18:31:32] does anynone know if citoid would work with wikidata? [18:31:41] There should be a game to encourage people to add them. [18:32:01] yes, we need the mappings to create the files with the data to upload [18:32:15] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Citoid [18:32:22] sjoerddebruin: I guess it will be similar to the games [18:32:23] vrandecic: it might but really don't know and don't know how difficult it would be to make it work [18:32:35] #link http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Citoid [18:32:46] vrandecic: Yes, but you first need to be right that the item on Wikidata is the same as the entry on Freebase. [18:33:01] sjoerddebruin: true :) [18:33:12] There are still a lot of missing connections. [18:33:20] there are a lot of mappings already [18:33:22] i think it would make sense to make use and integrate with existing system like citoid, but just don't know how feasible [18:33:33] I recently checked for the nationality data [18:33:45] Is Zotero compatible with Wikidata - Citoid works with this [18:34:01] and of the 800-900k statements we have, about 600k were mapped both on the subject and object [18:34:14] not bad [18:34:47] I think it's still hard for users to add references. [18:34:55] it is [18:34:57] yes, that's the main pain point [18:35:07] You need to put a lot of effort in them before they show up in the entity suggester. [18:35:14] so in terms of redesign: we're tackling the header area now [18:35:24] as well as doing fixes on the sitelink section [18:35:32] after that the statement section is the target [18:35:45] one of the things we will do there is make it easier to add references [18:35:53] allowing you to do it in one step for example [18:36:32] Lydia_WMDE: can you make sure that this is usable outside a Wikidata page? that would help a lot with the primary sources tool! [18:37:04] vrandecic: hah - we will try yeah [18:37:19] But if you click on add reference, you end up in a dead end most of the times... [18:37:20] It would be great to add the same reference to multiple statements in one step. [18:37:43] How will people find https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P854 ? [18:37:51] or https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P248 ? [18:38:26] sjoerddebruin: they do not show up still? maybe we need to tweak the threshold there [18:38:44] PKM: we're thinking of making it easier to copy an existing reference [18:38:49] I think the threshold for references is too damn high. [18:38:53] ok [18:39:32] i'll file a ticket so we can look into this [18:39:45] might well be that we need another treshold for references than claims [18:39:58] I've already suggested that some properties should show up as default there. [18:40:13] Wacky thought - has anyone ever suggest a 'reference ISBN' as a property, externally linked, to skip the whole problem that the entity, book, publisher etc don't already exist? [18:41:31] PKM: i think this is best brought up on the talk page of https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Help:Sources [18:41:39] Will do! [18:41:57] sjoerddebruin: ah right. i need to find those tickets again as well [18:41:58] PKM: good idea :) [18:42:22] (this Webinterface of freenode offers a lot of room for improvement) [18:42:29] haha [18:42:33] Lydia_WMDE: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T77972 ;) [18:42:38] thanks! [18:43:58] ok next topic - development plan [18:44:07] i took some time to update https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Development_plan [18:44:11] #topic development plan [18:44:16] in case you have not seen it yet [18:44:17] #link https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Development_plan [18:44:36] That was huge needed imo [18:44:43] :) [18:44:50] Hey look, "Improved user experience for referencing" [18:44:52] ;) [18:44:57] if anything on there is unclear or something super important is missing please say so [18:45:02] hehe [18:45:03] right [18:45:30] I would vote for moving Wiktionary up [18:45:31] Seems like there is also something for PKM: "A user adds one piece of information of a reference like its ISBN. The tool then automatically adds the other necessary information" [18:45:42] hah, the {{done}} thing is localized (in spanish for me) :) [18:45:48] * PKM does happy dance [18:46:11] vrandecic: not just you it seems -.- [18:46:23] just had someone email me today about it [18:46:26] I would be very sad if it was just me :) [18:46:31] haha [18:46:32] Wiktionary is a popular thing it seems. [18:46:35] true [18:46:37] I think that assumes that the reference already exists as an item (of that's what I assumed when I read it) [18:46:48] aude: you might enjoy my user page https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Denny - highly localized [18:46:57] PKM: Maybe the tool can make items. :) [18:47:05] :) [18:47:12] sjoerddebruin: yes please [18:47:14] PKM: no this is more about looking up zotero or something similar. how exactly it'd work/look i am not sure yet [18:47:23] Oh hooray [18:47:32] Lydia_WMDE: can you say please where these "Wikidata/Notes/Future" projects - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Notes/Future - fit in with https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Development_plan ? [18:47:48] uhhhhh blast from the past :D [18:47:51] let me look [18:47:56] * aude is getting into editing wiktionary some (while trying to learn german etc.) [18:48:04] omg, interwiki links would be so nice there :) [18:48:12] can't wait [18:48:31] not to mention the structured stuff [18:48:56] Scott_WUaS: ah ok. so this was mostly collecting input on future uses of Wikidata. i am not sure this is useful anymore to be honest [18:49:12] Thanks [18:49:15] omg, yes please, structured wiktionary! [18:49:29] yes yes yes ;-) [18:49:30] but! [18:49:31] +2 [18:49:42] focus please people ;-) let's get the ones we have working [18:49:45] then commons [18:49:48] then wiktionary [18:49:49] ;-) [18:49:49] no buts, just do it :) [18:49:53] lol [18:49:55] right [18:50:33] seriously though. one thing at a time *product hat on* [18:50:43] Lydia_WMDE: Is there another Wikidata link for external CC projects and as they relate to the https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Development_plan ? I understand there are a lot of these [18:50:44] and with freebase we really need to focus on: [18:50:46] * scaling [18:50:50] * better user interface [18:50:57] * tools to improve data quality [18:51:29] and then glorious wiktionary world ;-) [18:51:40] if we withhold Freebase for a few months, will we get Wiktionary earlier? ;) [18:51:54] vrandecic: rofl. evil plans! [18:51:57] i see them coming [18:52:36] Scott_WUaS: hmmm no i don't think so right now besides the old page you linked to [18:53:20] alright we're nearing the end of the office hour. any last big things to talk about today? [18:53:49] Where is my shirt? [18:53:57] (talking about big things) [18:54:03] sjoerddebruin: being ordered atm ;-) [18:54:09] would anyone mind if I steal those minutes with a few questions re the Freebase data? [18:54:17] go for it [18:54:34] What should we do with external keys, like VIAF, etc.? [18:54:44] do people want to use references for those and if so, what? [18:55:19] did you look at the existing referenes max made when he was there? [18:55:19] member:Lydia_WMDE: Thanks, Lydia ... where please is the Wikidata planning page for Freebase integration, if there is one ? [18:55:21] #topic Freebase (questions for denny) [18:55:28] VIAF is it's own reference [18:55:33] Its [18:55:34] and second, my thinking is that instead of introducing new items, we should go for making the graph betweens those that we already have in wikidata denser. Anyone disagreeing? [18:55:52] Not I [18:56:00] no this seems very sensible [18:56:26] PKM: OK, but would these stateements need to go through the user tool, or should we just upload such keys? [18:56:32] Scott_WUaS: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool is the best place currently i think [18:56:54] and this: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Freebase [18:57:10] ah right [18:57:12] thx [18:57:18] Thanks! [18:57:43] vrandecic: that would depend on the error rate, right? [18:57:46] Lydia_WMDE: may I have a question? [18:57:53] matej_suchanek: sure [18:57:55] If you ask me, I am happy with just letting multichill to upload the VIAFs that are still missing [18:58:06] Thanks, Denny [18:58:07] how will the usage tracking thing look like? [18:58:08] jzerebecki: true [18:58:26] #link https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Freebase [18:58:36] vrandecic: can we spot check existing VIAFS to estimate error rate? [18:58:40] jzerebecki: my assumption is an error rate of below 1%, but it would be good to check that [18:58:52] PKM: yes, absolutely, good idea [18:59:13] I will obviously release these keys, and then they can be checked before upload [18:59:39] matej_suchanek: nothing user visible at this point. in the future there should be a way for editors to see where a certain data point is used but i don't know where/how yet. so far it is only a database table that tracks it so we know which pages to purge when the data changes [18:59:50] matej_suchanek: does that make sense? [19:00:10] yes, thank you for the explanation! [19:00:15] cool [19:00:48] vrandecic: more questions from your side? [19:01:08] Lydia_WMDE: plenty, but time is up. I will follow up on the WikiProject page [19:01:13] :) [19:01:14] ok [19:01:23] anyone else? [19:01:52] otherwise i'll let you all have a nice weekend [19:01:55] I'm curious ... [19:01:57] thanks for coming everyone! [19:02:12] Thank you ... will ask later! [19:02:12] Scott_WUaS: about? [19:02:16] ok [19:02:21] Thanks all! [19:02:30] Thank you for holding these office hours! [19:02:31] good bye all! [19:03:31] #endmeeting [19:03:32] Meeting ended Fri Jan 16 19:03:31 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) [19:03:32] Minutes: https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-01-16-18.03.html [19:03:32] Minutes (text): https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-01-16-18.03.txt [19:03:32] Minutes (wiki): https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-01-16-18.03.wiki [19:03:33] Log: https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-01-16-18.03.log.html [19:03:37] thanks everyone!