[00:06:20] https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=novainstances&niproject=tools&niregion=eqiad&format=json [00:06:23] spagewmf_: ^ [17:18:36] Testing. [17:22:52] hi chip [17:23:37] wmf_highlight: Testing pinginginginging! [17:23:59] I'm seeing a bit of an echo on IRC. [17:24:34] marktraceur: what do you mean? [17:24:41] marktraceur: You're on the big board. [17:24:45] I'm kidding :) [17:24:46] Ooh! [17:24:48] Hi, office. [17:25:02] marktraceur: 'echo' is the sort of word that keeps me up at night. [17:25:31] Yeah. Sorry about that. [17:25:39] * wmf_highlight twiches [17:39:16] wmf_highlight: test [17:46:44] * James_F waves. [17:48:30] Could probably take out that first bit now [17:48:42] marktraceur: Meh. [17:49:51] (Link available but not yet live.) [17:51:12] James_F: the meeting begins in 9 minutes? [17:51:21] harej: Hopefully. :-) [17:54:34] Optimism is key [17:56:41] So I'm pretty excited. Who's with me? [17:56:51] I'm excited [17:57:17] I'm here to tackle anyone who steps off their floor marks.. [17:57:56] I don't have headphones. [17:57:59] I wonder how I am going to watch this. [17:58:07] harej: Loudly for your neighbours? [17:58:08] Next month: Metrics in Real3D [17:58:19] harej: I thought headphones were for your ears? ;) [17:58:20] harej: on mute? [17:58:34] Clearly, we need stenographers. [17:58:41] If I just watched on mute then I would be looking at a bunch of people, having no idea what they're saying. [17:58:48] (This does not constitute an offer.) [17:59:13] James_F: Incidentally, my dad's company offers court reporting services. The WMF should have court reporters on staff to transcribe the presentations. [17:59:27] time for headphones and youtube! [17:59:36] rub it in, brion :( [17:59:43] i lost my headphones yesterday [17:59:57] too bad we don't have live subtitles [18:00:12] OK, we'll be starting soon. [18:00:16] But not quite yet. [18:00:27] For instance, the principals aren't even on stage yet. [18:00:40] i see youtube video [18:00:49] Link? [18:00:52] Yup. [18:00:54] yuvipanda: /topic [18:01:21] And we're go. [18:01:47] Ohai office. [18:01:57] Streamers, can you confirm if is it working for you? [18:02:03] Yeah! [18:02:03] i see it James_F [18:02:06] and hear [18:02:08] Excellent. [18:02:12] Thank you. [18:02:25] (Right now Terry the COO is speaking.) [18:02:40] Snagged a phone booth. A little self-indulgent, but whatever. [18:03:16] A bunch of new hires in the past month. [18:03:35] Hooray! [18:03:57] Welcome, everyone. [18:04:29] (Whoops, I didn't say this before – if you have any questions, please shout them out and I'll answer or proxy them for you.) [18:04:33] Switching between cameras tends to freeze the picture for a second or two [18:04:56] fyi cnd or josephine or whoever is running this crazy thing [18:05:09] Oh dear [18:05:21] * yuvipanda has flashbacks to wikimania [18:05:21] * bd808 sits down [18:05:27] * marktraceur stands up [18:05:27] \o/ [18:05:29] I'm in bed [18:05:35] haha ^ [18:05:38] * halfak sits down @ 4 years [18:05:39] * James_F grins. [18:05:52] * yuvipanda does at 4 or less too [18:05:54] Is Roan old enough to have been working for the WMF for 6 years? [18:05:55] Chatter here. [18:05:56] * marktraceur sits down [18:05:57] lol [18:06:02] aww [18:06:02] \o/ [18:06:10] rdaiccherlb: No, but that's never stopped him before [18:06:20] That [18:06:21] Now we're introducing Wes and Kourosh. [18:06:23] lawl [18:06:26] :D [18:06:29] woooo [18:06:38] old man vibber [18:06:40] James_F: You should tell him about the delay... [18:06:40] Can people see Wes? [18:06:41] :) [18:06:45] no, we used to have a creche for Roan [18:06:46] marktraceur: We know. [18:06:49] James_F, not yet [18:06:52] hehe [18:07:03] Still no email! [18:07:06] Wes on screen now. [18:07:17] Wasn't Wes a phantom at the last meeting? [18:07:18] goodevening [18:07:29] marktraceur, he was camera dodging [18:07:29] So many ghosts. [18:07:36] LIVE HERE FROM EAST COAST IT IS THURSDAY AFTERNOOOOONNN [18:07:41] hey Dedalus_! [18:08:31] edsanders: Hilarious. [18:08:53] * yuvipanda puts krenair in a crib [18:08:58] Cribnair! [18:09:08] No. Bad yuvipanda. [18:09:08] No. [18:09:13] yuvipanda: I think the point is we don't care how old people are. :-) [18:09:23] Questions for Wes? [18:09:37] I know, James_F :) [18:09:41] (Ah, we're skipping.) [18:09:45] James_F, what kind of positions are you hiring for now and which ones need to be filled ASAP? [18:09:49] http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Wikipedia [18:09:50] Someone is going to have to pronounce Wikipmediawiki [18:10:10] Booo [18:10:11] halfak: I'll ask it later at the open question spot if that's OK? [18:10:14] Stream is too slow [18:10:14] Krenair: that's...startlingly easy to pronounce [18:10:15] kk [18:10:18] Thanks James_F [18:10:28] Oh that's longer than usual lag [18:10:45] Keegan, it still sounds silly to me. :) [18:10:48] +1 Keegan [18:11:08] even if easy [18:11:16] UKIPmediawiki [18:11:20] no. [18:11:24] But [18:11:29] No, you're right [18:11:36] marktraceur: We're not allowed to talk about parties on election day. ;-) [18:11:45] * marktraceur puts away his invitations [18:11:57] * halfak refreshes stream to try to catch up more [18:12:12] Others who are watching the stream, can you say something that is happening right now? [18:12:25] "100 million pageviews by the end of this quarter" [18:12:26] Discussion of WikipediaZero [18:12:28] halfak: In person: "reach everybody on the planet". [18:12:51] * halfak must have missed the 100 mill pageviews [18:12:53] We're now moving on to a community update from Luis. [18:12:59] "reach everybody on the planet" [18:13:00] Kourosh discusses wikipedia app on the mobile [18:13:01] COmmunity Update [18:13:02] "everybody on the planet" [18:13:03] Just happened [18:13:03] :) [18:13:07] applause [18:13:08] Kk. [18:13:10] Our goal is to have Wikipedia stuff on your phone that you can't delete? [18:13:18] Caught up. [18:13:19] :) wikibloat [18:13:20] boo root apps [18:13:28] matt_flaschen: I was thinking just that... [18:13:28] matt_flaschen, what did you do with superm401? [18:13:28] ~50 seconds lag [18:13:33] yeah stuff you can't delete on the phone is what people love [18:13:37] matt_flaschen++ [18:13:39] can't delete :( [18:13:40] I'm only like 10 or so seconds behind, so, can we give remoties at least 30 seconds to ask questions before moving on, please wmf_highlight [18:13:41] Wikirootkit [18:13:53] greg-g: Questions go at the end normally. [18:13:54] greg-g: you are not on screen right now.. [18:13:55] halfak: superm401 is dead :( [18:13:57] halfak, superm401 was deleted and matt_flaschen was intalled. ;) [18:14:03] greg-g: There's > 10 minutes scheduled for it, don't worry. [18:14:10] * csteipp is going to ahve to write a wikirootkit now... [18:14:12] (Well. Worry slightly. We so often go late.) [18:14:19] nooo. I liked superm401. I didn't know this update was coming and what if it doesn't work for me ;) [18:14:27] James_F: if people say "I'm open to questions right now" that is... a question time. [18:14:36] * SMalyshev foresees wikijailbreak [18:14:37] halfak, you and legoktm can sign a petition to bring back superm401. [18:14:40] "over the past 72 hours" o___O [18:14:43] I'm not going to, but you can still sign the petition. :) [18:14:44] James_F: but yes, we'll be ok :) [18:14:46] lol [18:14:51] halfak: I complained about it to him yesterday :P [18:15:06] greg-g: Yes, and we waited about 30 seconds. Giving remote people 30 seconds means waiting with dead air for two minutes, which is two minutes we can't then use for general questions. [18:15:07] matt_flaschen: Down with government names, long live alphanumeric nicks that are funny to watch people try to pronounce [18:15:13] greg-g: But you're right, it sucks. [18:15:20] Hmm GlobalSouth drinking game or not? [18:15:27] ^ [18:15:30] marktraceur, if I had a fun one like yours or legoktm's I would have kept it. But superm401 didn't bring it home for me. [18:15:32] * marktraceur sips from coke [18:15:42] oh, wmf_highlight can you double click on the slides in yoru view? see if it resizes [18:15:46] * halfak only has pop ("soda" for all you weirdos) [18:15:51] * greg-g assumes wmf_highlight == seen by cndiv [18:15:54] I have water [18:16:06] halfak: Don't pander to inferior dialects. [18:16:15] Bam; [18:16:26] yuvipanda, http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2012-11-09-Screenshot20121109at3.05.00PM.png [18:16:27] doing others, please alert James_F [18:16:30] marktraceur, ^ [18:16:39] Really cool to have more diversity in the board elections. [18:16:55] +1 matt_flaschen [18:17:00] greg-g: I don't have the ability to modify the streams, sorry. [18:17:03] halfak: wtf is the "other" county in northern Minnesota [18:17:25] halfak: Lovely graphic, BTW. :-) [18:17:26] marktraceur, lake of the woods! [18:17:28] Mostly lake [18:17:30] James_F: I wouldn't imagine you would, hence me wanting to ping chip ;) [18:17:46] * James_F nods. [18:17:50] I'm okay with any of the names, except "coke" as a generic term for soda. [18:17:54] That's just a design flaw. [18:18:01] marktraceur, I go up there often. I'll do a study next time. [18:18:06] * yuvipanda gets a sprite coke [18:18:11] matt_flaschen, +1 [18:18:32] yuvipanda: Or a lemonade coke. [18:18:54] Question - are we still restricting grants to things that need nothing from WMF engineering? [18:19:04] I love that California is lighter yellow than the east coast - I imagine because there are more transplants [18:19:14] yuvipanda, good question. I realize using WMF staff time is equivalent to spending money. [18:19:15] Yay ada [18:19:25] However, if we're willing to give actual money, we should be able to budget staff time too. [18:19:37] matt_flaschen: Queued up. [18:19:52] matt_flaschen: it is and right now there is a blanket ban on that, so things that should be extrensjons are gadgets... [18:20:00] matt_flaschen, yuvipanda: even. [18:20:14] Thanks James_F [18:20:23] Yeah, and even converted from extensions to gadgets (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Pronunciation_Recording_%28Finish_incomplete_GSoC_project%29) [18:20:39] matt_flaschen++ [18:20:39] Heh [18:20:49] SUL \o/ [18:20:52] Wooohoooo sul [18:20:53] SUL! SUL! SUL! [18:20:55] * abartov can't wait for that one to go live [18:20:56] SUL! FTW!!! [18:20:56] People also might not know why they are not participating. [18:20:56] SUL SUL! [18:21:03] SUL*F*. [18:21:06] Just like they didn't know they wanted a smartphone before smart phones existed. [18:21:23] SULF is a huge deal! [18:21:33] F? [18:21:36] Finalization [18:21:38] halfak: Finalisation. [18:21:39] legoktm should take a bow [18:21:41] Oh [18:21:44] :) [18:21:45] applause [18:21:46] Props to legoktm [18:21:48] And Keegan [18:21:52] Keegan the goal is to find very expensive beer [18:21:52] Both have been awesome. [18:21:53] +1 legoktm & Keegan [18:21:55] <3 [18:21:57] And Deskana [18:22:01] huge huge huge. [18:22:01] And loads of others helped. [18:22:09] Although SULF is also indirectly responsible for me doing my rename, because I chose the timing to be right when everyone was doing SULF-related renames. :) [18:22:10] There *was* one person in #mediawiki who was angry [18:22:13] But that's negligible [18:22:15] And Keegan [18:22:17] brion started it off, for example. [18:22:28] So many props to Keegan, Lego, Hoo, Der Hexer, Nemo, Dan Garry...who else? [18:22:29] those were the days [18:22:34] All the humans - well done! [18:22:35] Many of the global renames will be at the functionary meet up at Wikimania. Maybe we should make her pay for a round [18:22:36] went smoother than could reasonably have been expected. [18:22:38] Also the bots! [18:22:40] so glad we finally did the last steps :D [18:22:41] All of the stewards too [18:22:43] Props to everyone who helped, including the renamers. [18:22:44] And the bots! [18:22:48] brion: EvilPlans.txt! [18:22:50] I'm sure more than one person got mad, but it seems less than I expected. [18:23:00] hehe [18:23:00] Carlsberg Vintage 3: The beer is priced at $348 per bottle. [18:23:00] All the global renamers, thank you thank you thank you! [18:23:00] Jamesofur|cloud: rounds [18:23:00] Oh dear. [18:23:00] Not thankless! Please deliver our thanks! [18:23:01] 14,000 renames in the past six weeks [18:23:10] Katherine just offered to by everyone involved beers at Wikimania. [18:23:17] Ah man, did someone cermonisusly delete evilplans.txt yet? [18:23:21] Risky thing to say when sitting next to me. :-) [18:23:35] csteipp: We totally should make that a patch everyone involved +1s and brion +2s. :-) [18:23:50] we're not done yet :P [18:24:07] https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-CentralAuth/blob/master/evil-plans.txt still exists. [18:24:10] legoktm: alllll the things... [18:24:59] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Evaluation/Evaluation_reports [18:25:08] A couple of the "not trying to achieve at this time" are also partly done. [18:25:11] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/209540/ [18:25:17] matt_flaschen: All in all I only had about a dozen out of a couple of thousand people that were truly angry for serious. [18:25:50] Defining truly angry as being they were still pissed off after they wrote the email and hit send [18:25:51] That's really great. That's probably partly because people get why it's needed. [18:25:55] Most people were good just venting. [18:25:57] eval-plans.txt [18:26:07] indeed. [18:26:17] And only a couple of those angry folks bubbled up beyond Keegan [18:26:22] Welcome Rosemary Rein! [18:26:32] SUL finalisation \o/ [18:26:35] Sorry, I missed where she came from? [18:26:35] We're now doing an update about quarterly reports. [18:26:55] *claps* [18:27:18] matt_flaschen: United Way. [18:27:25] Thanks [18:28:52] collaboration :-( [18:29:01] can't see multimedia [18:29:07] Yikes [18:29:13] hey folks. i hear from James_F I've been committed to buying beers. I'm here to validate that :) Congrats team to a really impressive job! [18:29:14] Can't see the lower right!? [18:29:16] Multimedia had three coworkers as goals [18:29:16] greg-g: It didn't have a review, ISTR? [18:29:20] * James_F grins at krmaher__. [18:29:22] And they all showed up [18:29:38] Question time! [18:29:41] I can't see multimedia [18:29:50] Other than that, it looks like only Legal had 100% green. [18:29:58] and I assume VE/editing? [18:30:13] You weren't 100% right? [18:30:23] will the post-reorg org chart & titles be made public soonish? [18:30:34] We had a stretch goal we missed in VE. [18:30:41] brion, it is: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Staff_and_contractors?showall=1 [18:31:03] matt_flaschen: wasn't that reverted? [18:31:09] (rv; full explanation is here: https://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?oldid=84945#Staff_and_contractors) [18:31:17] brion: the structure was kept, the titles were reverted [18:31:21] ah confusing [18:31:27] I've got a question from halfak for Wes, and one from yuvipanda / matt_flaschen for Luis. [18:31:29] you on are the board. [18:31:30] Any others? [18:31:47] Adam, from sector 7-G :) [18:31:47] Huh? That edits is from 3 years ago. [18:31:57] question: don't install Wikipedia App as root on devices. Also this question is a statement. [18:32:18] fwiw I can hear just fine. [18:32:25] hi meganhernandez [18:32:35] +1 edsanders [18:32:49] hello Dedalus_ :) I was in the wrong channel [18:33:04] and let's get some women on the Search and Discovery team [18:33:10] there are zero [18:33:18] +1 pizzzacat [18:33:26] Wooo comm tech! [18:33:26] FYI the community tech job postings will go out in the next tech newsletter for wider dissemination to our community [18:33:29] pizzzacat +1million [18:33:33] I've been sending that one around as much as I can [18:33:39] guillom thank you! [18:33:40] guillom: Excellent, thanks. [18:33:44] link to job description available? [18:33:47] pizzacat? [18:34:08] Comm tech dev: https://boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/62666?t=m5pcy0#.VUgfhjvF_FI [18:34:15] Who is talking? [18:34:18] Comm tech manager: https://boards.greenhouse.io/wikimedia/jobs/62669?t=d51bks#.VUgfhjvF_FI [18:34:27] mutante, ^ [18:34:32] Thanks halfak. [18:34:33] halfak: thanks [18:35:01] yuvipanda It is Sati Houston in the community resources team [18:35:08] If you were asking about the goals question [18:35:10] Ah cool :) [18:35:12] KatyLove: Thanks. [18:35:16] KatyLove: I was.thanks [18:35:34] Hello westonnh. [18:35:39] statement in question form: Installing apps as root on mobile devices risks damaging our reputation. Is it worth it? [18:35:47] hi James_F [18:35:53] edsanders: First party apps aren't uninstallable? [18:36:03] edsanders: Sounds like an OS bug. [18:36:05] What percentage of greens should we strive for? [18:36:06] James_F, not on my Galaxy S4. They can just be disabled. [18:36:10] James_F, I'm pretty sure it's intentional. [18:36:14] matt_flaschen: Hmm odd. [18:36:15] IMO when it comes to research, it should be 1/10 [18:36:26] Start 10 projects, finish the best one. [18:36:36] for context, that was a very high level view on goals, and there's more nuanced conversation in the quarterly review meetings https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Metrics_and_activities_meetings/Quarterly_reviews [18:36:45] halfak: Then surely your goal would be "finish one of these ten projects", not "finish these ten projects" [18:36:56] James_F, not without rooting [18:37:02] marktraceur, fair point [18:37:13] edsanders: That's certainly an irritating issue. [18:37:30] James_F, it's deliberate and most likely won't be changed [18:37:35] James_F will we have time for my / matt_flaschen's question [18:37:36] ? [18:37:43] thanks Moiz [18:38:05] moiz sounded like the last Silicon Valley episode just now [18:38:07] James_F, so the question stands [18:38:16] yuvipanda: Just asked it. [18:38:16] A question that isn't actually a question! [18:38:20] James_F: ty [18:38:23] edsanders: Your question is next, worry not. [18:38:30] me thinks ed's question is also good [18:38:40] Well that emote failed [18:38:47] Jamesofur|cloud: :-) [18:39:06] it made you sound distinguished [18:39:23] why not? [18:39:25] Are you saying that I don't always sound distinguished? [18:39:32] milimetric: "Plus, you're a woman!" I didn't stop facepalming after that line [18:39:38] Like I said above, I accept that using engineering time means using WMF resources. But it should be possible budget and spend time as a resource too. [18:39:50] :) [18:40:02] omg, irc is up on video. [18:40:03] if we spend money, why not spend resources too? [18:40:09] * ragesoss_ waves. [18:40:15] ragesoss_: Indeed. [18:40:18] you need a new microphone out there ;-) [18:40:22] +1 SMalyshev [18:40:38] milimetric: link to silicon valley episode please [18:40:49] pizzzacat for president! [18:40:58] moizsyed: it's HBO. Also, pizzzacat for president +2 [18:41:26] :) [18:41:34] pizza for all [18:41:59] Is the U2 debacle an example of why uninstallable phone apps is a risk? [18:42:00] I don't know if all pre-installed apps can not be installed, or if it can be done either way. But in my experience the pre-installed ones are not uninstallable. [18:42:02] having apps that can't be removed is insulting to the users [18:42:05] jaufrecht: yes [18:42:09] Why?: People don't like mandatory bloatware [18:42:09] SMalyshev: yes [18:42:12] Look at what happened to Dell [18:42:26] many people find uninstallable root apps annoying [18:42:29] If it's uninstallable it would definitely be better. [18:42:29] yes, +1 uninstallable [18:42:33] it's basically saying "you're too stupid to control your own technology" [18:42:34] we are on major delay [18:42:35] * ebernhardson much better solution [18:42:35] +1, I must agree that "bloatware" that cannot be deleted is potentially harmful to the brand. [18:42:37] telecom partners or their customers? [18:42:40] A deletable app would be a satisfactory solution. The problem with a mandatory, undeletable app is that we would be associated with intrusion and forced presence. [18:42:47] At least in my opinion that would be much better :) non removable apps are a pita. [18:42:53] The partners are the same companies pre-installing crappy exercise apps and stuff. [18:42:59] We shouldn't necessarily go by their policies. [18:43:01] And are often a place of complaints from most people I know [18:43:08] even if the devices ask for it it's an issue about *our* reputation [18:43:15] Any more questions? [18:43:17] Telecom partners I think. We are an item on their TV ad [18:43:17] I'm out here. [18:43:21] Unfortunately the people that are asking to have the apps installed (e.g. carriers) are not the ones with control over whether preinstalled apps are deletable. [18:43:25] That's a manufacturer thing, often. [18:43:26] (S Page is now asking a question.) [18:43:27] having app pre-installed is great. having it *forced* and *un-removable* is an offence [18:43:40] Follow-up: Companies have stopped (or minimized) doing this on desktop: E.g. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2890114/lenovo-vows-to-stop-shipping-pcs-with-third-party-bloatware-after-superfish-fiasco.html [18:43:43] Practically speaking, our Android app is pretty small. [18:43:53] But this isn't so much about practicalities, to me. [18:43:55] It's about principles. [18:44:09] I'm not sure where I land on that spectrum yet. :-) [18:44:24] Deskana, carriers probably have more influence than you're suggesting. They're a primary sales channel so if they demand something consistently, Google will consider it. [18:44:35] Principles are a spectrum? You don't say [18:44:41] Also, are we sure pre-installed Android apps can never be uninstallable? [18:44:57]