[19:40:16] Graph tech talk starting in 20 min [19:40:26] putting up youtube links now [19:56:52] we are starting the tech talk in 5 min, I am here to ask questions for you [20:01:07] rfarrand: You are aware the youtube link has a countdown on it, that's still has 40 minutes on the clock? [20:01:28] oh, sorry about that - Just about to start - let me know if it does not work.. [20:01:54] bawolff: we are live now [20:02:02] you should be able to start seeing in 90 seconds [20:02:20] works [20:02:36] great, thanks ebernhardson|lch [20:02:41] Woo, I hear [20:02:50] yay! bawolff :) [20:03:03] although the video is frozen [20:03:16] Try re-loading your browser? [20:03:17] audio sounds like qgil, but video is somebody else's face [20:03:31] Yuri is talking [20:03:36] lol :) [20:03:37] qgil is not here :) [20:03:50] ah, I don't think I've met him in real life. He kind of sounds like qgil :) [20:03:51] * guillom waves. [20:03:57] hi guillom ! [20:04:08] * bawolff not great with telling people apart by voice :) [20:04:10] so Yuri is OK with q's at any time, ping me if you have any [20:04:12] Has the talk started? The stream looks black at the momnet. [20:04:15] yes [20:04:18] ok [20:04:18] guillom ^ [20:04:20] * guillom reloads [20:05:11] ok, firefox works, chrome wouldn't :) [20:06:07] video is working on me for chrome now (didn't earlier) [20:06:14] good [20:06:19] glad it is working for everyone [20:06:34] amen to that [20:06:42] (vega being complex) [20:08:57] rfarrand: I have a slight question, although it might be slightly off topic, and I don't really want to interrupt: The docs mention the ability to do word clouds, but I couldn't make it work. Does yurik know if that's supported [20:09:15] bawolff: maybe we can ask at the end then? Would that be OK? [20:09:34] yeah that's fine. [20:10:24] bawolff: nevermind, I just asked [20:10:44] bawolff: did that answer your q? [20:10:47] yep [20:10:56] great [20:15:17] Yuri has smiling flowers in the background :) [20:16:33] Q: Can we make graph namespace do template expansion? Wouldn't that be best of both worlds? [20:16:59] although, personally I don't like the idea of having hundreds of special purpose namespaces on each wiki [20:17:06] bawolff: will ask [20:17:48] that's geojson btw [20:17:54] really really crazy json :) [20:18:41] That's really cool. We could replace a lot of maps on commons that way [20:19:58] bawolff - waiting for a break to ask [20:20:09] indeed bawolff, and I think somewhere in the distant future we can even make it play nice with tile servers like OSM [20:22:38] I notice that the hover behaviour doesn't work outside the previews. Is that a bug? [20:23:00] YairRand: the previews are rendering the extension with Javascript [20:23:12] the in-page version of the graph is the graphoid-rendered image [20:23:17] so it's just a png in-page for performance reasons [20:23:50] but I have been thinking about how to allow toggling of the interactivity. Interactivity in Vega 1 is not that awesome, but in Vega 2 it'll be pretty complete [20:24:21] milimetric: yeah, I miss the hovering feature of the javascript drawn graphs [20:24:31] yeah, it's fairly useful [20:25:21] YairRand: I think its likely that preview will switch to PNG images in the very near future [20:25:32] "Vega is based on d3" <-- great news! [20:25:52] http://lyra.wmflabs.org/ [20:26:23] yay Maynard! [20:29:23] or Minard, actually [20:29:35] * guillom hands in his French card. [20:29:51] This is the graph Dan mentioned at the beginning: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Joseph_Minard#/media/File:Minard.png [20:32:51] milimetric: I am thoroughly impressed that you're re-making Minard's map using this tool, and most importantly *live*. [20:33:18] really cool! [20:37:32] This lyra thing would have been really useful when I was trying and failing to understand the vega docs :) [20:37:36] qs? [20:38:15] awesome demo [20:38:26] No questions, just applause. [20:41:32] https://github.com/uwdata/lyra [20:41:38] https://github.com/uwdata/vega [20:41:51] nice open source people, very friendly ^^ [20:42:00] For debugging vega, please convince people to have reasonable errors to js console [20:42:26] Cannot dereference null ptr (or whatever js equivalent was), is not a friendly error ;) [20:43:40] yurik: milimetric: Has the Communications team reached out to you about writing a blog post about all this awesomeness? I sent them a heads-up and this *really* needs to be advertised. [20:44:51] yurik: I might be interested in helping make some basic templates [20:46:22] * bawolff really wants to try and do some graphs based on wikidata now. Sounds interesting [20:47:11] the signposts link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom/Special_desk/Proposals/Article_counts [20:47:12] (note that a lot of data visualisation templates already exist using easytimeline, like [[w:en:Template:Line chart]], which could be modified to use vega.) [20:47:31] wee [20:47:51] I made https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Subcategory_graph just to play with it [20:48:21] Wikimedia commons might not like people dumping raw data on commons [20:50:09] yeah, data storage is a big question [20:50:27] we've never had a solution that everyone likes [20:50:57] Doing cross domain data requests probably won't work on preview (due to same origin policy) I think [20:53:35] rfarrand: They are talking about https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Subcategory_graph currently [20:53:57] thanks everyone! [20:54:04] for the thing that he didn't know the url of [20:54:32] Great talk. Thanks! [21:01:57] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Milimetric/sandbox [21:02:10] http://idl.cs.washington.edu/projects/lyra/app/#?example=napoleon [21:05:44] bawolff: btw, I'm trying to convince the vega people of just that :) friendly errors, partial rendering so you know where you get stuck, etc. [21:06:05] they're working on it, I think they'll be really excited if our community starts adopting it [21:07:14] milimetric: When I was trying to learn the syntax, it was frustrating at times to make a type and get such a generic "object is null and has no properties" [21:07:42] bawolff: I know, debugging right now is Awful [21:07:49] I basically open up the JS source in their live editor [21:07:52] and put in breakpoints [21:08:25] some of the gotchas of the grammar are crazy right now. But that makes sense because it's basically been this academic low-resource project [21:08:35] My js is a little rusty, and I find the vega source code hard to follow [21:08:36] but with communities like ours interested, it might just blow up [21:09:03] bawolff: if you get stuck on something, their google forum is a really good resource. Or just stop by #wikimedia-analytics and bug me about it :) [21:09:06] I'm really happy to help [21:09:15] also the chrome web developer thing seems to have problems with anonoymous functions (or I was just using it wrong. I'm really more a php guy) [21:09:27] I never did figure out how data transforms work [21:09:34] yeah, js debugging is not the best way to spend an evening :) [21:09:56] bawolff: https://github.com/trifacta/vega/wiki/Data-Transforms I'm curious how you find their docs? [21:10:07] like easy to read / confusing and useless? [21:10:32] yep, both those [21:10:52] Easy to read, then its confusing when you try to put into practise, and then you realize its missing the part you need :P [21:11:18] Basically, I think it would benefit greatly from some fuller examples in the Data-transform section [21:11:28] I had trouble figuring out how to use the result of a transform [21:11:37] except for one's like truncate which made a new property [21:11:53] If you want I can walk you through the transform example that made me understand them a little better [21:12:05] which is, going from a bar to a pie [21:12:09] via the "pie" transform [21:12:44] At the time I was trying to do zip, but then I realized i didn't need it to accomplish what I needed for T98313, so I gave up [21:13:14] bawolff: that's restricted, what's the task? [21:16:55] milimetric anyone: how can I make an interwiki link to a particular revision of your sandbox? Tools > Permanent link appends an ?oldid= query string. [21:17:40] huh, weird! But wait, let me paste in a better version of that before you link it anywhere :) [21:17:42] ahah, [[:en:Special:Redirect/revision/662355375]], but that's horribly obscure. And people make fun of Flow URLs. [21:18:39] milimetric: or you could move it to User:Milimetrics/my_awesome_graph_of_Napoleon [21:18:56] * milimetric moving [21:19:58] spagewmf_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Milimetric/MinardNapoleon [21:24:04] milimetric: thanks, great. yurik I'm putting this in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Graph , please link your slides [21:24:20] sorry I mean https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Graph for now [21:27:31] spagewmf_, where can i upload, and in what format? [21:29:09] yurik: Oh, I assumed your slides were already on the intarwubwub. I guess a PDF uploaded to mediawiki.org [21:29:16] but low priority [21:31:17] spagewmf_, https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=File:GraphsPresentationSlides_20150515.pdf