[16:28:00] <psychoslave>	 hi
[17:08:43] <ottomata>	 youtube link?
[17:10:00] <quiddity>	 ottomata, wrong channel
[17:16:18] <tobias47n9e_>	 ottomata, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB_oexqz8pA
[17:17:14] <quiddity>	 ^ that's for the "Wikipedia as the Front Matter to All Research" brownbag, in 2hrs 45 mins.
[17:19:45] <tobias47n9e_>	 quiddity, I think a few people are waiting for that. It went over the Wikidata and Wikisource mailinglists.
[17:19:56] <quiddity>	 Yupyup :)
[17:21:09] <quiddity>	 (I am, too!)
[17:21:42] <tobias47n9e_>	 Yeah, me too :)
[17:48:05] <dcausse>	 Jamesofur: ping :)
[17:48:27] <Jamesofur>	 dcausse: gchat or email ;)
[17:48:38] <dcausse>	 oh ok, feeling dumb :)
[17:48:55] <Jamesofur>	 no worries :D
[19:58:11] <tobias47n9e_>	 Wikipedia as the Front Matter to All Research: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB_oexqz8pA
[20:00:05] <Gamaliel>	 Does anyone know if this will be recorded?
[20:00:08] <Gamaliel>	 the livestream
[20:01:39] <tobias47n9e_>	 Gamaliel, I am pretty sure. There are older live streams in the youtube channel of WMF
[20:02:02] <halfak>	 o/
[20:03:53] <Gamaliel>	 has it started for anyone else?
[20:04:02] <abbey>	 hi halfak
[20:04:08] <tobias47n9e_>	 Gamaliel, Not yet.
[20:04:10] <halfak>	 Hi abbey
[20:04:36] <Gamaliel>	 Thanks.  No hurry, just didn't want to be the only one staring at a black screen.
[20:05:15] <halfak>	 Looks like we just started.
[20:05:18] <abbey>	 we are starting
[20:05:21] <halfak>	 Stream should be up shortly
[20:05:34] <halfak>	 Stream is up
[20:05:42] <Gamaliel>	 :)
[20:05:57] <halfak>	 o/ tarrow
[20:06:03] <halfak>	 FYI: just getting started.
[20:10:13] <tobias47n9e_>	 Has it started? I don't have Flash on Fedora :(
[20:10:21] <Gamaliel>	 yes
[20:10:22] <guillom>	 yep, it started.
[20:10:41] <guillom>	 tobias47n9e_: I think youtube works with HTML5 in firefox or similar
[20:10:49] <guillom>	 I don't recall installing flash on this machine.
[20:12:16] <tobias47n9e_>	 guillom, I probably need H.264 or WebM package or something. Shuffles off to PostinstallerF ...
[20:13:07] <Gamaliel>	 ah, government.   figures.
[20:13:08] <halfak>	 lol @ "record"
[20:13:16] <guillom>	 "Academix"
[20:13:17] <abbey>	 yeah -I love it!
[20:13:19] <guillom>	 Brilliant.
[20:13:49] <brendan_campbell>	 sorry for the slightly choppy audio everyone
[20:14:06] <halfak>	 brendan_campbell, working OK for me.
[20:14:10] <brendan_campbell>	 it's getting choppy somewhere in the youtube encoding process, it's clean on our end
[20:14:19] <halfak>	 Oh... I'm on hangouts.
[20:14:40] <abbey>	 Hi everyone - if anyone has questions, please share them here, I will ask when the time comes.
[20:14:43] <halfak>	 Nevermind... hearing it nbow
[20:14:52] <halfak>	 Thanks abbey!
[20:15:34] <brendan_campbell>	 halfak: it seems to be improving now. it was never completely unintelligible, just slightly annoying
[20:15:41] <foks>	 Want to add a link to the stream in the topic?
[20:15:57] <halfak>	 So we have a mod who can?\
[20:15:58] <halfak>	 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB_oexqz8pA
[20:16:03] <halfak>	 ^ Stream link
[20:16:22] <halfak>	 *Do
[20:16:22] <halfak>	 "The Wikipedia"
[20:16:28] <halfak>	 :)
[20:16:36] <guillom>	 I'm wondering if DOIs can be used by "regular people" e.g. on personal sites & blogs etc.
[20:17:40] <guillom>	 used by = used to refer to pages hosted on such sites
[20:17:50] <brendan_campbell>	 halfak: i'm recording the audio locally now just in case, i can replace the audio in the video with clean audio once this presentation is done if necessary
[20:17:51] <phoebe>	 guillom: not really, because in the DOI scheme you have to register as a DOI handler
[20:18:11] <phoebe>	 (they don't call them handlers, I forget what the exact term is)
[20:18:13] <halfak>	 brendan_campbell, cool  That'll be good for the archives.  Thanks.
[20:18:32] <Gamaliel>	 only fifth?  slackers.
[20:18:32] <phoebe>	 guillom: but there are a bunch of way to get DOIs for various research products
[20:18:39] <tobias47n9e_>	 It streams pretty good using VLC for me.
[20:18:41] <guillom>	 phoebe: ! Great to see you :)
[20:18:52] <guillom>	 And thanks for the response :)
[20:18:57] <phoebe>	 Gamaliel: that list counts the major publishers, IIRC, so we're not slacking that much :)
[20:19:35] * halfak wonders if we can get a DOI for each :m:Research: page. 
[20:19:46] <Gamaliel>	 you're right, getting beat by Science Direct is nothing to be ashamed of.
[20:20:09] <phoebe>	 for those who don't know, sciencedirect & scopus are both Elsevier
[20:20:20] <halfak>	 Gamaliel, I'm still skeptical that we are really getting beat.
[20:20:21] <halfak>	 We have an issues with referrers
[20:20:21] <halfak>	 DarTar has been working on that.
[20:20:30] <halfak>	 I think Wikipedia is under-counted.
[20:20:30] <phoebe>	 there's a schema called ARKs which I think individuals can get
[20:20:55] <phoebe>	 halfak: mostly lots of cites that have dois don't actually have them in the reference, so yeah
[20:20:59] * guillom bookmarks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archival_Resource_Key .
[20:21:08] * halfak hisses at Elsevil
[20:21:17] <guillom>	 héhé
[20:21:19] <YuviPanda>	 they killed toollabs' redis a few times with cocytus
[20:22:08] <guillom>	 http://wikipedia.labs.crossref.org/
[20:22:10] <phoebe>	 anyway, halfak, for meta pages we'd be a lot better off running our own PURL server :)
[20:23:06] <phoebe>	 "outside the scholarly literature" I think what he means is outside traditional publishing :)
[20:24:22] <Gamaliel>	 they should get low tech and point a webcam at the wall counter.
[20:25:18] <phoebe>	 more interestingly re: the counting issue, a lot of stuff we cite (news, tech reports, webpages, etc) don't have DOIs...
[20:25:32] <phoebe>	 probably the majority of stuff we cite, actually. So this is still a tiny fraction of our references
[20:25:47] <guillom>	 insert-old-wikipedia-logo-joke
[20:25:57] <guillom>	 Do Klingons use DOIs?
[20:26:03] <abbey>	 hahaha
[20:26:17] <phoebe>	 guillom we should add DOIs to the logo versions, sheesh
[20:26:24] <guillom>	 :D
[20:27:15] <phoebe>	 ooh
[20:27:18] <phoebe>	 this is cool
[20:28:16] <guillom>	 Structured Citations FTW.
[20:28:50] <tobias47n9e_>	 I think everybody agrees by now that we need 1 item for 1 doi?
[20:28:52] <guillom>	 want it. want it. now :p
[20:29:11] <phoebe>	 that's my understanding of how it works, yes
[20:29:22] <phoebe>	 oh you mean one wikidata item
[20:29:24] <tobias47n9e_>	 Lets blow up Wikidata by 10^2 :)
[20:29:25] <guillom>	 http://labs.crossref.org/
[20:29:49] <guillom>	 See also: http://librarybase.wmflabs.org
[20:29:53] <halfak>	 +1 for putting cites in Wikidata
[20:29:56] * halfak claps
[20:30:02] <phoebe>	 that's pretty redundant assuming we implement a permanent URL scheme in Wikidata, unless you imagine the whole thing moving elsewhere
[20:30:05] <halfak>	 SEND QUESTION to abbey
[20:30:09] <halfak>	 *s
[20:32:25] <phoebe>	 front matter of all research <3
[20:32:30] <tobias47n9e_>	 [citation needed] can also be the entry point for new science
[20:32:51] <guillom>	 After the Credible Hulk, Credible Goats.
[20:33:00] <madhuvishy>	 are goats the new paramecium?
[20:33:19] <guillom>	 madhuvishy gets halfak-points!
[20:33:33] <madhuvishy>	 :D
[20:33:35] <tobias47n9e_>	 madhuvishy, He might be speaking of the near-extinction of Alpine mountain goats?
[20:33:56] * halfak looks for swalling
[20:34:36] <halfak>	 word on the wikis is that swalling is responsible for a much of Wikipedia's information about goats and sheep.
[20:34:48] <phoebe>	 for sure re: sheep, not sure about goats
[20:34:50] <YuviPanda>	 haha
[20:34:56] <guillom>	 :D
[20:34:58] <YuviPanda>	 KNOWLEDGE ENGINE!
[20:35:01] * YuviPanda runs away
[20:35:08] <guillom>	 YuviPanda: hahaha
[20:35:11] <halfak>	 phoebe, indeed.  I might be misremembering
[20:35:15] * YuviPanda freebases KNOWLEDGE ENGINE
[20:35:24] <phoebe>	 halfak it seems likely, anyway
[20:35:25] <halfak>	 lol
[20:35:38] <madhuvishy>	 you should call the elastic search thing knowledge engine
[20:35:46] <YuviPanda>	 haha
[20:36:03] <YuviPanda>	 for today, I'm going to call my left shoe 'knowledge engine'
[20:36:33] <abbey>	 can't stop laughing
[20:36:38] <guillom>	 YuviPanda: Call the other one "Strategy".
[20:36:48] <YuviPanda>	 oooh
[20:36:53] * YuviPanda walks on KE and Strategy
[20:37:15] * madhuvishy puts an engagement hat on YuviPanda
[20:37:18] <YuviPanda>	 guillom: so if i use the phrase 'the other shoe has dropped' it means we know about our strategy now?
[20:37:46] <YuviPanda>	 is my wrist brace 'community'? I hate it and need it at the same time...
[20:38:08] <phoebe>	 "users don't care about provenance"
[20:38:10] <phoebe>	 hmm
[20:38:38] * YuviPanda stops being OT
[20:39:07] <Gamaliel>	 i love that almanac analogy.
[20:39:11] <phoebe>	 btw, I know someone who consults and trusts an almanac now
[20:40:04] <phoebe>	 and wikipedia doesn't actually count as a source
[20:40:09] <phoebe>	 since it's just an intermediary
[20:40:46] <guillom>	 https://newrepublic.com/article/124425/dreamed-perfect-database
[20:42:46] <guillom>	 Fun fact: the French Wikipedia did start using a template-powered database for their citations: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aide:Espace_r%C3%A9f%C3%A9rence
[20:43:06] <tobias47n9e_>	 We should also create a Wikisource page for every DOI with a countdown that tells the time until is is public domain :)
[20:43:22] <phoebe>	 guillom how has that worked out?
[20:43:51] <phoebe>	 there's a few template-driven citation pages in en.wp but it's not a namespace
[20:43:52] <guillom>	 (Example: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9f%C3%A9rence:The_visual_display_of_quantitative_information_(Edward_R._Tufte) )
[20:43:53] <tobias47n9e_>	 Lydia_WMDE, Wikidata at the center! Yeah!
[20:44:07] <guillom>	 phoebe: I think it fell out of practice over time. I should look into it.
[20:44:38] <guillom>	 Not many edits in the RCs :/ https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?namespace=104&tagfilter=&title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3AModifications+r%C3%A9centes
[20:45:07] <halfak>	 I wish that I could describe all my papers on Wikidata and upload the PDFs to commons.
[20:45:09] <phoebe>	 https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Source_MetaData
[20:45:13] <halfak>	 Stupid publishing industry
[20:45:28] <guillom>	 I'm going to plug http://librarybase.wmflabs.org again.
[20:46:06] <phoebe>	 halfak: it's better to consolidate papers with other papers -- there's a lot of value in building a collection. But have you double-checked all your publishing agreements? Posted the author version?
[20:46:07] <hashar>	 that CrofRef presentation is quite nice
[20:46:14] <halfak>	 "Parser Functions" in MediaWiki lingo
[20:46:50] <halfak>	 phoebe, I'm not lawyer enough to know if I can upload the author versions to commons.
[20:46:58] <hashar>	 is the CrossRef organization using Wikidata for data storing?
[20:46:59] <halfak>	 But it's clear that I can host on my website.
[20:47:06] <halfak>	 So I do so agressively.
[20:47:26] <phoebe>	 halfak: honestly, that is better than commons from a library perspective. What's best of all is uploading them in a repository of some sort
[20:47:44] <halfak>	 But +1 for collections.  I think we want to have individual items.  One thing I want to find time for is proper open summaries on Meta.
[20:47:45] <phoebe>	 I don't want scholarly papers in commons for a bunch of reasons
[20:47:51] * YuviPanda becomes commons admin, deletes halfak's papers
[20:47:53] <phoebe>	 unrelated to licensing of said papers
[20:48:03] <halfak>	 phoebe, commons != repository?
[20:48:10] <halfak>	 YuviPanda, :( !
[20:48:11] <phoebe>	 it's a repository of other stuff
[20:48:12] <halfak>	 :P
[20:48:26] <abbey>	 @hashar I will ask your question - it is first in line.
[20:48:36] <YuviPanda>	 "Per Commons:NOTCOMMONSIMOLOL"
[20:48:38] <phoebe>	 I want like things with like. Plus, we don't have the kind of OCR & metadata support that I'd want for a paper repository
[20:48:48] <tobias47n9e_>	 Tweets/Second is the most important metric of our time :(
[20:49:00] <phoebe>	 like downloading citations in lots of formats, linking in teh data, etc etc
[20:49:00] <halfak>	 phoebe, papers in commons, metadata in wikidata?
[20:49:08] <guillom>	 hashar: CrossRef was the first presentation. Dario's is related to references but not about CrossRef.
[20:49:10] <YuviPanda>	 phoebe: +1 Commons has support problems
[20:49:26] <phoebe>	 basically I want features for papers that are irrelevant for images, largely
[20:49:28] <marktraceur>	 Can't imagine why
[20:49:30] <hashar>	 oh so that is Dario speaking right now?
[20:49:35] <guillom>	 yes
[20:49:51] * YuviPanda pats marktraceur
[20:49:56] <tobias47n9e_>	 halfak: Papers on Wikisource is the plan isn't it. Only the pictures on commons?
[20:50:19] <halfak>	 phoebe, I think of Commons and Wikidata as data stores and other systems for indexing and presenting as using those data stores.
[20:50:24] <guillom>	 Jupyter notebooks on Wikiversity?
[20:50:34] <YuviPanda>	 guillom: omg yes :D
[20:50:43] <guillom>	 (I'M JOKING DON'T DO IT :P)
[20:50:46] <YuviPanda>	 guillom: it is fairly trivial to implement a notebook viewer as a mw extension btw
[20:50:51] <halfak>	 But regardless, I just want a place to put scholarly assets and add metadata about them.
[20:51:10] <marktraceur>	 halfak: Surely Wikisource is a data store, too...just for a different format
[20:51:21] <halfak>	 Yeah.  Indeed.
[20:51:24] <marktraceur>	 Sort of a transformative data store
[20:51:29] <phoebe>	 halfak - all your preprints are in arxiv, no?
[20:51:32] <hashar>	 push the assets to commons then reference them as item in Wikidata where you can add metadata?
[20:51:34] <tobias47n9e_>	 6. -> This is why we need Wikidata, No other thing can solve these wild queries.
[20:51:44] <hashar>	 isn't Wikidata supposed to eventually be used for Commons metadata?
[20:51:49] <hashar>	 cause the {{templates}} are getting old
[20:51:50] <halfak>	 phoebe, only discovered arxiv recently, but yes since I realized that I could :)
[20:51:51] <marktraceur>	 hashar: Wikibase is
[20:52:02] <YuviPanda>	 harej!
[20:52:04] <marktraceur>	 hashar: WMDE needs to get on it though. No pressure Lydia_WMDE
[20:52:05] <halfak>	 hashar, yeah.  That was my thought
[20:52:12] <YuviPanda>	 james hare's project is librarybase.wmflabs.org
[20:52:17] <halfak>	 ^
[20:52:18] <YuviPanda>	 woo wmflabs :D
[20:52:23] <halfak>	 ^
[20:52:31] <guillom>	 it has a new logo too
[20:52:41] <guillom>	 Although I was really hoping for a Credible-Hulk logo :p
[20:52:55] <halfak>	 guillom, what logo?
[20:52:55] <phoebe>	 halfak: cool. I'd do that.
[20:53:03] <guillom>	 halfak: new logo for librarybase
[20:53:09] * halfak loads it up
[20:53:19] <phoebe>	 arxiv ids are also a permanent scheme, can be treated like dois etc in wikidata.
[20:53:32] <hashar>	 great Dario!
[20:53:33] <marktraceur>	 hashar: One of the initial irrational fears was that Wikidata would steal all of Commons's metadata and the Commons community would lose ownership of it, so Commons is going to be a Wikibase repository on its own...which makes sense, because file metadata is hardly of the same quality as the stuff on Wikidata now.
[20:53:37] <halfak>	 SEND YER QUESTIONS TO ABBEY!
[20:53:38] <YuviPanda>	 my question was 'is that a goat'. answer was 'yes'
[20:53:44] <phoebe>	 yay dario
[20:53:49] <YuviPanda>	 yay dario
[20:53:50] <tobias47n9e_>	 70 Millions + probably on averag 3 authors. So 200 million items as a rough estimate?
[20:54:19] <phoebe>	 my question is about getting all the stuff into Wikidata that doesn't currently have any permanent ids
[20:54:19] <guillom>	 My only question is "So when *do* we get citations in Wikidata" and I'm pretty sure I won't like the answer :p
[20:54:47] <halfak>	 Cleanest data import that wikidata ever got.
[20:54:54] <halfak>	 WOuld be from librarybase
[20:55:20] <halfak>	 gogogo Alex
[20:55:21] <guillom>	 Can we include the Wiki-related literature in the pilot project? p-p-p-pleaaase .
[20:55:39] <phoebe>	 lolol re: web of science
[20:56:02] <halfak>	 guillom, sounds like a good place to go.
[20:56:04] <halfak>	 Could use referata. :)
[20:56:30] <halfak>	 http://wikipapers.referata.com/wiki/Main_Page
[20:56:31] <hashar>	 marktraceur: I guess it make sense to have commons have its own metadata system yeah.  Then wiktionary will ask for another :-}
[20:56:35] <phoebe>	 abbey: question for dario: how about using wikidata queries to identify uncited or poorly cited statements?
[20:56:39] <guillom>	 yes. Because at the moment I'm using citation templaters + Wikipapers template + Acawiki template and it's painful.
[20:56:43] <hashar>	 marktraceur: soon we will need a WikibaseFederation system
[20:56:49] <marktraceur>	 v.v
[20:56:51] <phoebe>	 abbey: i.e. statements that aren't well cited currently in Wikipedia itself
[20:56:57] <halfak>	 Looks like wikipapers died in 2012
[20:57:02] <halfak>	 But we can bring it back in a new form
[20:57:44] <abbey>	 got it Phoebe.. I have a few others collected to ask first
[20:57:54] <guillom>	 halfak: Nemo and JeanFred are still editing a bit.
[20:58:12] <halfak>	 <3 Nemo and JeanFred
[20:58:16] <hashar>	 abbey: can confirm about wikipedia being use as entry point. At least among teachers and university folks I know.   They quick glance at wiki, look for papers then go dig for more related papers
[20:58:22] <tobias47n9e_>	 OMG lets make a [research needed] tag for Wikipedia :)
[20:58:47] <guillom>	 tobias47n9e_: Then researchers will add a [funding needed] tag ;)
[20:58:56] <halfak>	 [data needed]?
[20:59:00] <halfak>	 [analysis needed]?
[20:59:01] <phoebe>	 re: what geoff is saying of course we function like review articles... but it's uneven. In general though we follow same patterns of citing reviews, famous articles
[20:59:02] <abbey>	 hashar have your question too
[20:59:20] <halfak>	 tobias47n9e_ & guillom, we should have those on Meta'
[20:59:27] <halfak>	 s research namespace
[20:59:28] <phoebe>	 but let's get real people: citations in wikipedia suck
[20:59:35] <guillom>	 (For clarity: all my questions were rhetorical. I don't have any serious questions.)
[20:59:41] <halfak>	 FYI: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Index
[20:59:48] <phoebe>	 we do not do a good job of surveying the literature or making the most comprehensive things in front of people
[21:00:17] <phoebe>	 and what the "best citation" is depends a lot on your audience, anyway.
[21:00:21] <aubreymcfato>	 OT question: how far are we from the realization of the Signalling OAness project? What do we miss?
[21:00:30] <halfak>	 phoebe, we need to figure out how to make Wikipedia part of academic practicwe.
[21:00:38] <tobias47n9e_>	 phoebe, Modern science has only had ~100 years. Give it some more centuries to perfectly describe the world. Wikipedia can't fix everything.
[21:00:53] <phoebe>	 aubreymcfato: hi! and I don't think that's OT at all... they mentioned flagging OA
[21:00:59] <halfak>	 tobias47n9e_, but we should be able to clear discuss the state of science.
[21:01:02] <halfak>	 ALso, 100 years?
[21:01:04] <halfak>	 Boo
[21:01:12] <guillom>	 halfak: / tobias47n9e_: Once I get it off the ground, the Codex will include a gap analysis that sort-of serves the "Research needed" issue.
[21:01:12] <halfak>	 What's "Modern"?
[21:01:18] <aubreymcfato>	 phoebe: hi! :-)
[21:01:25] <tobias47n9e_>	 halfak, OK lets start with Keppler :)
[21:01:28] <phoebe>	 halfak: the thing is "the best cite" might not be academic. Usually isn't. The best cite might be a NY times article that everyone can get too
[21:01:32] <halfak>	 "the Codex"?
[21:01:41] <phoebe>	 we know this instinctively as a community, which is why we cite the NYT all the dang time
[21:01:43] <guillom>	 halfak: My lit-review project
[21:01:50] <halfak>	 gotcha :)
[21:02:02] * halfak needs to keep up with guillom's awesome projects better
[21:02:16] <guillom>	 not pasting the link here because it's empty at the moment!
[21:02:41] <halfak>	 Maybe paste anyway so I can watchlist
[21:02:42] <guillom>	 halfak: there's not much to keep up with right now. I'm just reading a lot!
[21:02:43] <halfak>	 :D
[21:02:46] <abbey>	 phoebe, I will ask your q next
[21:02:52] <guillom>	 https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Codex
[21:03:07] * halfak watches
[21:03:13] <phoebe>	 OT is that the 5th floor?
[21:03:19] <guillom>	 phoebe: yup
[21:03:20] <madhuvishy>	 yes
[21:04:00] <tobias47n9e_>	 guillom, Thanks. Watchlisted.
[21:05:28] <phoebe>	 btw I think these discussions tend to make me despair about epistomology and whether we can ever actually cite/know anything
[21:06:10] <hashar>	 time will come! we are still at the stone age
[21:07:06] <halfak>	 phoebe, IMO it takes a community to come to know things.
[21:07:12] <tobias47n9e_>	 Wikidata cites every data-point, that is better than the current state of most infoboxes.
[21:07:21] <halfak>	 We rely on others a lot more than anyone will really admit to know things.
[21:07:30] <phoebe>	 wikidata makes it *possible* to cite every data point
[21:07:39] <tobias47n9e_>	 phoebe: true :P
[21:07:56] <halfak>	 So if we can have an active community discussing and iterating on subject area, then that subject area can become much more known.
[21:08:02] <mutante>	 TrevorParscal: if you got a moment please take a look at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119404#1838900
[21:08:13] <hashar>	 abbey: yeah just a statement sorry
[21:08:25] <halfak>	 It would be great if we could substantially extend the walled-off academic communities via open knowledge projects like this.
[21:08:27] * halfak is a dreamer
[21:08:55] <phoebe>	 halfak I mean right back to the beginning though, like fundamental epistomology. How science works. That kind of thing.
[21:09:05] <phoebe>	 which is a little out of scope for this conversation :)
[21:09:26] <abbey>	 any other questions I might have missed?
[21:09:29] <abbey>	 ask them now
[21:09:31] <phoebe>	 but agree re: opening up the community
[21:09:32] <halfak>	 Oh.  Well... Yeah.  I'm out of my element in a phil. of science discussion.  I'm much more useful for practical methodology.
[21:09:57] <phoebe>	 abbey: thank the presenters from the IRC peanut gallery over here? :)
[21:10:04] <halfak>	 :D
[21:10:06] <abbey>	 yes I will.
[21:10:14] <phoebe>	 thx
[21:10:15] <YuviPanda>	 wow, finally something that halfak is out of his element in!
[21:10:15] <halfak>	 Best peanut galley in a while. :)
[21:10:21] <halfak>	 :P YuviPanda
[21:10:35] * halfak continues his rocket surgery AI project
[21:10:37] <halfak>	 ;)
[21:10:44] <halfak>	 o/
[21:10:54] <abbey>	 thanks everyone!
[21:11:00] <guillom>	 Great talk :)
[21:11:02] <hashar>	 yeah thanks !
[21:11:02] <guillom>	 talks*
[21:11:05] <hashar>	 was nice
[21:11:05] <halfak>	 Thanks folks.
[21:11:05] <halfak>	 The conversation doesn't need to stop here.
[21:11:13] <tobias47n9e_>	 Thanks all!
[21:11:18] <hashar>	 what would be fun
[21:11:22] <aubreymcfato>	 thanks
[21:11:29] <hashar>	 is to use Wikipedia / Wikidata to potentially link papers togethers
[21:11:32] <halfak>	 If you want to get involved in these initiatives and you're not already CC'd on emails and phab tasks like crazy, let me know and I'll loop you in.
[21:11:39] <phoebe>	 link papers together?
[21:11:51] <halfak>	 ^ that
[21:11:51] <halfak>	 want
[21:12:02] <phoebe>	 hashar like a who cites who type of deal?
[21:12:05] <halfak>	 Paper graph that is annotated by whether the citation is casual, negative or supporting.
[21:12:11] <phoebe>	 <3
[21:12:14] <hashar>	 i.e. [[article]] cites Paper A and Paper B,  that might mean they are linked somehow
[21:12:23] <aubreymcfato>	 but I'd really like to know where the Signalling OAness project stopped: my understanding is that we are waiting for CrossRef to figure out some issues
[21:12:43] <hashar>	 so CrossRef on Paper A can indicate that Paper B might be of interested (because: boths are on [[Article]] )
[21:12:50] <phoebe>	 who-cites-who data is even more locked up than most bibliographic data, btw, because only three big players have really had the resources to do it: Web of Science, Scopus (Elsevier) and Google Scholar
[21:12:58] <phoebe>	 you need a giant corpus and a bunch of resources
[21:13:11] <aubreymcfato>	 is it a problem of metadata about OAness?
[21:13:17] <hashar>	 and that cold work the other way around.  If  Paper A is linked on  [[Elephant]] and [[Water]],  then maybe on the [[Elephant]] page we could hint about [[Water]] because both cites Paper A
[21:14:04] <aubreymcfato>	 halfak: I'd like to be looped in
[21:14:08] <phoebe>	 hashar yes! and you can see papers that are highly, highly cited (like famous works, or super useful reviews)
[21:14:15] <hashar>	 so I could browse from article to paper back to article to another paper
[21:14:18] <phoebe>	 across many wikipedia articles
[21:14:28] <hashar>	 and loose even more time on the net :D
[21:14:58] <hashar>	 does Wikidata has the CrossRef data being injected?
[21:15:51] <phoebe>	 it sounds like they're talking about it?
[21:16:14] <phoebe>	 I missed some of that
[21:16:52] <hashar>	 yeah I missed the first part
[21:16:59] <hashar>	 I have just found http://wikipedia.labs.crossref.org :D
[21:17:17] <hashar>	 so seems the data are out of there and some smart folks will figure out something to do with them
[21:19:13] <phoebe>	 alright friends, good to see you all again
[21:19:26] <phoebe>	 I'd best get back to work & then home, since I'm 3 hrs later now :)
[21:20:17] <phoebe>	 we should all nerd out about library things again sometime!
[21:21:29] <tobias47n9e_>	 phoebe, Hopefully!
[21:22:31] <guillom>	 hashar: The what-cites-what was in the model that Dario presented.
[21:22:44] <guillom>	 WikiPapers sort of does that with Semantic MediaWiki.
[21:22:57] <guillom>	 But it's laborious because it's all manual :/
[21:27:58] <hashar>	 guillom: maybe Wikipapers community can be linked to Dario
[21:28:31] <guillom>	 The WikiPapers community is basically emrijp & Nemo_bis ;)
[21:28:31] <hashar>	 anyway it is great to see all that activity going on
[21:28:41] <hashar>	 oh
[21:28:48] <hashar>	 should be easy so :}
[22:02:25] <northern1>	 Hi
[22:06:08] <northern1>	 #fedora-meeting
[22:19:16] <northern1>	 #startmeeting holidays
[22:19:17] <wm-labs-meetbot>	 Meeting started Fri Dec  4 22:19:17 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is northern1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
[22:19:17] <wm-labs-meetbot>	 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
[22:19:19] <wm-labs-meetbot>	 The meeting name has been set to 'holidays'
[22:19:23] <northern1>	 Hello
[22:21:14] <northern1>	 Hi
[22:24:56] <northern1>	 Hi
[22:27:10] <northern1>	 #endmeeting
[22:27:11] <wm-labs-meetbot>	 Meeting ended Fri Dec  4 22:27:11 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
[22:27:11] <wm-labs-meetbot>	 Minutes:        https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-12-04-22.19.html
[22:27:11] <wm-labs-meetbot>	 Minutes (text): https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-12-04-22.19.txt
[22:27:11] <wm-labs-meetbot>	 Minutes (wiki): https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-12-04-22.19.wiki
[22:27:12] <wm-labs-meetbot>	 Log:            https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-12-04-22.19.log.html
[22:28:23] <northern1>	 kLklK
[22:28:24] <northern1>	 k
[22:28:24] <northern1>	 k
[22:28:24] <northern1>	 k
[22:28:25] <northern1>	 kk
[22:28:25] <northern1>	 k
[22:28:25] <northern1>	 k
[22:28:25] <northern1>	 k
[22:28:26] <northern1>	 kl
[22:31:11] <northern1>	 l#OS2UGBE
[22:31:17] <northern1>	 #OS2UGBE
[22:31:51] <Krenair>	 !ops
[22:31:58] <Barras2>	 yes?
[22:32:00] <Barras2>	 oh
[22:32:05] <Krenair>	 yes