[21:52:07] /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER vaurora ljujcgzfparl [21:52:13] /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER vaurora ljujcgzfparl [21:52:26] vaurora: no. [21:52:29] heh :) [21:52:33] And you want to change your password now. [21:53:14] any further advice to pm, thanks [21:53:21] (Didn't want to come across as snarky, just to clarify that yes this was in public) [21:56:33] It's generally a really bad idea to post privileged commands into a channel window, even if they're supposed to begin with the / [21:56:50] your client should have a separate network/server tab/window which is much safer [21:57:27] hey folks, not super interested in filling up this channel with beginner IRC advice [21:57:58] oh I'm sure it's fine, there's no meeting going on here at the moment [22:00:53] * robla starts the process of starting the meeting minutes...please stand by [22:01:57] #startmeeting WikiDev '16 agenda bashing [22:01:57] Meeting started Wed Dec 30 22:01:57 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is robla. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. [22:01:58] Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. [22:01:58] The meeting name has been set to 'wikidev__16_agenda_bashing' [22:02:21] #topic Wikimedia meetings channel | Please note: Channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE) | WikiDev '16 agenda bashing (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/E131) | Logs: http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikimedia-office/ [22:02:41] hi folks! [22:04:13] gwicke and I were just chatting about Summit planning stuff, and this is a version for much wider participation [22:05:03] vaurora is going to be helping with meeting facilitation next week [22:05:49] #link https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Developer_Summit_2016#Program <- the agenda we're discussing here: [22:07:06] gwicke and I talked a bit just now about T114542, which is the first discussion at 10am on Monday [22:07:17] #link https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114542 [22:09:07] it looks like the team around T114542 has 55 slides to get through before the discussion part of the 80 minutes starts [22:09:43] gwicke: dr0ptp4kt_away - y'all around to discuss further? [22:10:07] (probably not, unfortunately...but can't hurt to ask) [22:10:59] robla: I would propose sending a mail about reducing the length of the talk [22:11:37] gwicke: how much time is needed for the essential ideas? my hunch is that 20 minutes should be the maximum [22:12:57] 20 minutes can perhaps be done by reducing the scope [22:13:29] who needs to reduce the scope? [22:13:31] I'd say 30 is probably enough to present the meat [22:15:35] gwicke: why 30? people will tune out at the 20 minute mark anyway [22:17:18] this should be a discussion with the reading team [22:18:16] gwicke: ok...I plan to suggest 20 minutes in a comment on T114542 [22:20:25] * robla makes the comment in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114542 [22:20:39] moving through the main room agenda... [22:21:56] #link https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119162 [22:22:12] #info User interface presentation [22:22:44] Krinkle and Volker_E are leading that area [22:25:02] my guess is that most people are gone for the holidays, because I should be too ;-) [22:27:09] continuing through the list: Content format [22:27:25] #link https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119022 <-Content format area [22:27:43] subbu and I discussed this yesterday, and gwicke and I discussed this today [22:28:42] my thinking is that this conversation should be dominated by conversation where we grapple with authoritative sources for data [22:31:42] since this is a long-shot / far future topic, I think it would be helpful to balance it a bit with concrete content structure needs and problems people have right now [22:34:23] I think there's general consensus about making this about the problems right now. the question is definition of "problem" [22:35:05] making HTML the authoritative content format is some ways out [22:35:22] there are a lot of other problems to be solved first [22:36:04] how far out is making HTML the authoritative source? [22:36:21] a couple of years I'd say [22:36:44] I'm also not aware of any concrete issues that are blocked on that question [22:37:21] if there are any, then it would be good to surface them [22:37:30] I think there's a lot of confusion and mistrust about this issue, which I'm hoping we can clear up in a face-to-face meeting [22:38:38] i.e. if replacing wikitext with HTML is a 2 year goal, that implies many short term actions to get there. If never replacing wikitext is the plan of record, that has short term ramifications, too [22:39:05] could you call out those ramnifications somewhere? [22:39:34] gwicke: are you disputing my statement, and putting the onus on me to spell it out? [22:39:47] you seem to have specific things on your mind [22:39:59] and I think it would be helpful to know what those are [22:40:16] I don't have specific things on my mind [22:40:48] I know the general gist of years of discussions about the topic [22:42:28] gwicke: my question to you: what is your goal for replacing wikitext? 2 years? 5 years? probably never? [22:42:39] the concrete questions are more about representing our content in a more structured way, so that it can be consumed and processed more easily [22:43:09] what's the question? [22:43:21] there are a few RFCs [22:43:39]
tags, navboxes, page components, balanced templates [22:44:04] semantic images [22:45:11] that's not a question [22:46:06] the overarching question is "how can we make our content easier to consume and process?" [22:46:16] and edit [22:46:36] yup, that's basically a restatement of the central question in T119022 [22:49:01] to get to the details: the authoritative source for our data should done based on a planned migration to HTML as the authoritative source, or it could be wikitext that has been incrementally improved [22:50:23] how would that affect any of the concrete issues people have right now? [22:50:27] a 2 year plan for incremental improvement of wikitext (remaining authoritative) looks very different than a 2 year plan for migration to HTML authoritative with expression/conversion in wikitext [22:51:47] the html-only wiki thing was something that was originally discussed in the context of avoiding the dependency on Parsoid [22:52:48] my impression is that interest has waned somewhat since; at least I haven't heard of anybody concretely pushing for html-only wikis in the last year or so [22:53:13] is there anyone else who has questions about this session or any other sessions on the agenda? [22:54:07] I'm still pondering what the best topic to cover in concent access & apis would be [22:54:41] the RFCs are all relatively specialized [22:56:05] in keeping with the "big question" theme, we could talk about general API challenges & direction, especially considering the push for API-driven frontends [22:56:45] I think getting clarity on the overall question (and discussion around it) will easily fill the time, and _can_ be productive. I hope we're up to making it work. [22:58:20] in some respect, I think it's likely to be a continuation of the discussion that starts at 10:30am (T114542) [22:58:22] media is another fairly general area, but lacks definition right now [22:59:52] it's an important topic considering the shifting user expectations towards more multimedia, though [23:00:29] it was one of the top areas brought up in the user survey [23:00:39] more on this later, but I should probably get going and wrap up this "hour" at close to an actual hour :-) [23:01:43] so....I'll hit the "endmeeting" button, assuming no objections [23:01:54] going once..... [23:02:04] twice.... [23:02:25] thanks gwicke! good conversation [23:02:32] #endmeeting [23:02:32] Meeting ended Wed Dec 30 23:02:32 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) [23:02:32] Minutes: https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-12-30-22.01.html [23:02:32] Minutes (text): https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-12-30-22.01.txt [23:02:32] Minutes (wiki): https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-12-30-22.01.wiki [23:02:33] Log: https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2015/wikimedia-office.2015-12-30-22.01.log.html [23:03:49] #topic Wikimedia meetings channel | Please note: Channel is logged and publicly posted (DO NOT REMOVE THIS NOTE) | Logs: http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikimedia-office/