[17:54:34] Good morning :) [17:58:20] Good morning/afternoon/evening everyone, SF is filling into the metrics room now so that we can start. [17:58:38] I'll be your James_F today for questions and commentary [17:58:47] Feel free to fix that if that's wrong, Jamesofur :) [17:58:51] (the topic, I mean.) [17:59:07] It's important to us to keep it easy for everyone hence the switch from James to James [17:59:09] * guillom wishes good luck to Jamesofur in being today's James_F. [17:59:10] * Jamesofur checks topic [17:59:17] I did it once; the accent was tricky. [17:59:19] I miss the British accent. [17:59:41] foks: I believe it is indeed correct [17:59:41] It's ok though, Jamesofur has a cool nick. ;) [18:00:16] Pine: if it helps Americans have an amazing ability to think I have a british accent... they're wrong but it's, by far, the most common "oh are you from" that I get with my accent [18:00:38] ...Really? :P [18:01:15] Starting up with Trevor as MC and Facilitator [18:01:23] Woo! [18:01:29] Got AV. :) [18:02:11] Yay Kacie! [18:02:13] : D [18:02:50] We'll be starting up with Alex Wang and the community update [18:04:09] Yay Emily! [18:04:15] +1 [18:05:08] foks: yeeah! I don't understand but at this point it's increadibly incredibly common that they think my accent is british. I can't blame JamesF either because I've been getting it since I was like 11, I can only blame Americans and/or my mix of accents. [18:05:15] Haha :) [18:05:44] http://badassladiesyoushouldknow.com/post/141393062585/the-future-now-emily-temple-wood-a-biology-major [18:06:35] By the way, what's the status of the security-troubled Education extension? [18:06:50] I have no idea what that is. [18:07:09] And next up will be Katherine and the Strategy & Annual Plan update [18:07:20] Congrats to all the awesome people and projects. [18:07:22] foks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Education_Program_extension [18:07:23] kannada == my mother tongue [18:07:31] O Kannada [18:07:34] :) [18:07:38] heh [18:07:39] it's very difficult for me not to think Kannada == Canada [18:07:45] foks: /groan/ [18:07:55] subbu: do you edit! ;) [18:08:50] Pine, huh. [18:08:55] Jamesofur, I should, right? ;) [18:08:59] That page gives little away. ;) [18:09:15] Pine: I can ask that after in the Q&A (or offline) if you'd like. I don't have a lot of updates on it other then knowing that there have been people trying to work on it/a replacement [18:09:31] foks, it's basically a way to manage classes of students working on Wikipedia. [18:09:34] and on my side of the security bit I basically have it in a basket of "people I trust are trying to deal with it" [18:09:48] matt_flaschen, right, I see [18:09:54] Jamesofur: during Q&A or after would be nice, thanks [18:10:05] A WikiEdu thing? [18:10:12] foks: it's a weird extension I don't completley understand but the education folks/classes tell me it's useful so I trust them ;) [18:10:16] originally not [18:10:22] I se [18:10:26] they actually use a different, home built, tool now [18:10:34] foks: the plan, last I heard, is to transition from the extension to the WikiEd software which is, as James says, a separate tool [18:10:45] It would be nice to get an update on how that transition is going. [18:10:47] but which is not perfectly built for internationalization so folks are working on making that better first [18:10:49] The Programs and events dashboard will allow tracking for not students in classes but, also to support other kinds of programs [18:11:06] Like editathons [18:11:17] sadads: Is that a different tool, or is that the revised version of the WikiEd tool? [18:11:25] Revised version [18:11:28] sadads: perhaps you could link or explain a bit more about that? Others may not know about that dashboard :) [18:11:37] Interesting to see a small expenses cut. [18:11:39] I guess we can all read what's on the slides ;-) [18:11:42] Sure, let me grab some links [18:12:31] Just so that everyone knows the full slide deck will be published on Meta after the meeting [18:13:05] That was Katherine, next up will be Adele and Strategic Partnerships [18:13:21] Jamesofur: can you also ask in Q&A where that $2m in savings is from? :) [18:13:28] If there are any questions people want to get in queue for Katherine after feel free to put here or in PM [18:13:30] Pine: certainly [18:13:33] Yay Global Reach! [18:13:35] Woooooo!!! [18:13:41] : D [18:13:52] Programs and events dashboard on Fabricator: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T91676 [18:14:19] early, early version of the new version at https://wikiedu-dashboard-staging.wmflabs.org/explore [18:14:44] @Pine & @Jamesofur [18:14:51] thanks sadads ! [18:15:01] *phabricator [18:15:06] phonics :P [18:15:58] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saF3-f0XWAY Phonics! [18:16:26] happy to answer specific questions about the dashboard. I've been working with several WMF devs, and a few other volunteers, to get the dashboard ready to be able to handle all languages and projects (for the Programs and Events Dashboard plan) [18:16:41] Ghana Survey data: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_Reach/Ghana_Survey [18:17:00] Wow, this is fascinating. [18:17:31] Yeah, really easy to forget how different some of these countries can be [18:17:38] Foks ^Comms got similar data out of South Africa [18:17:53] Yes! Dom did research there. [18:17:54] Do we have a plan for China yet? [18:18:07] cscott: I'm happy to ask if you'd like [18:18:08] We got a pretty high percent of people saying they haven't heard of Wikipedia in San Fran when we walked around for All-Hands last year [18:18:11] what's the percentage in the US for "Have you heard of Wikipedia?" [18:18:25] I think it was 30% or so [18:18:38] Jamesofur: might also ask in Q&A if WMF Global Reach is partnering with WMMX to promote Wikipedia awareness and usage in Mexico. That's a lower priority than my other 2 questions though, and others should get their share of airtime, so please put that question last in the queue. [18:18:40] milimetric, what, really?? [18:18:46] cscott Pretty sure they are focusing on countries with existing growth of readerships (Nigeria, India, Indonesia, etc) [18:18:47] but obviously a tiny sample, though I think we got to people who wouldn't normally answer surveys [18:18:47] That's ... actually astonishing. [18:18:47] Jamesofur: please [18:18:56] milimetric, wow, I did meet 1 or 2 on my walk, but that is really high. [18:19:04] Though I think that's partly because people use Wikipedia without realising they're using Wikipedia. [18:19:12] Or like, not really caring about what the site is called. [18:19:14] in the US i've found an odder habit anecdotally [18:19:20] some people said "no, what's that? is it like google?" [18:19:24] well, and the "call people's cell phones" mechanism tends to find people who *aren't* online every day. [18:19:25] I've found many people who say they don't know about it but then if you talk to them they use it [18:19:29] they just do not know our name [18:19:30] i asked a taxi driver in Indonesia , he had not heard but was fascinated when i showed id.wp [18:19:32] foks, partly, but at least one of the people I spoke to definitely did not know it (even after explicitly being shown how to get there from Google). [18:19:43] matt_flaschen, interesting! [18:19:45] in uruguay the OLPC kids knew about "the W" [18:19:52] :) [18:19:58] Jamesofur I see that too. Even people who do not know Wikipedia use Wikipedia [18:20:02] This is seriously super interesting. [18:20:04] which was the icon they used to get to the offline wikipedia slice we had [18:20:05] yeah, I think the main point is branding is hard [18:20:28] of course, the offline slice did say "wikipedia" promeniently once launched, but somehow that was less memorable [18:20:30] last week there was this survey published - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#New_York_City_market_research_company_presents_health_survey_discussing_Wikipedia [18:20:42] it says Wikipedia not trusted but highly accessible and used [18:21:03] I think many of the people who put it down do not know they are using it [18:21:04] foks: and then if they do use Wikipedia, know what it is, but then they need to understand how to change Wikipedia, and then know what is appropriate [18:21:07] Hi! What is the definition of Eastern Europe related to the Strategic Partnerships manager Smriti Gupta's position? [18:21:22] i'd like to see that phone survey done in US/Germany/etc for calibration. as a control. [18:21:34] then if you ask them who they think writes and runs Wikipedia you probably get Google and Apple [18:21:35] Samat, a good question - I would ask it during the Q&A later. [18:21:44] Samat: I'll put it on the list for questions! [18:21:44] thanks! [18:21:45] Jamesofur: ^ 1 question from Samat and 1 comment from cscott. [18:21:47] it's hard to know whether 30% is "low" without anything to compare it to. i don't have enough intuition about ghana and mexico to use them as comparisons [18:22:26] I personally think it'd be really fun to get some sort of micro-swag like buttons or stickers to walk around and ask people if they've heard of wikipedia and have a short chat about it. [18:22:39] sanity checking against folks in omaha, nebraska and san fran might give a sense of the variation of recognition rates even in our primary market. [18:22:53] +1 [18:22:57] I agree, would be good to have a control. [18:23:00] yep, +1 [18:23:14] I see the map, don't worry. [18:23:15] s/omaha// -- omaha being a city is actually probably pretty techy [18:23:22] milimetric: true, remember we did that at the all staff meeting last year ;) [18:23:29] Pawnee, IN [18:23:42] Issue with the map seems to be with the projector [18:23:45] milimetric, HaeB, yes, but in SFO which is hardly "the real world" [18:23:48] It looked fine on the monitor [18:23:48] I got your back, I'll talk to folks in the UP when I'm there again :P [18:23:50] cscott I would like to see an academic study. This was a market research study. Even a one-city academic research study has potential to be compared to other studies in other cities [18:24:09] with who do we have the agreement to provide free Wikipedia access in Mexico? [18:24:37] thelmadatter, ViveDigital: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Mobile_partnerships [18:24:42] cscott Yeah, Omaha actually has a large banking and other technical industry :) [18:25:23] milimetric: Canada? [18:25:25] Thanks! I will be presenting at a research conference in a couple of weeks that is interested in integrating Wikipedia, this is useful info [18:25:32] :) [18:25:51] bluerasberry: well, i don't care as much about academic vs market research so much as about consistency of methods and control groups for interpretation. [18:26:08] I'm getting weird ... "doubling" on the YouTube stream [18:26:17] ^me too [18:26:19] yeah, it's much better than echo-ing but interesting [18:26:19] same [18:26:27] brendan_campbell: ^ [18:26:42] foks: digital "noise" is much more interesting than analog "noise". ;) [18:26:43] ...cscott it was still interesting and eye-opening, e.g victor and went to the tenderloin and talked to some people whose daily reality was certainly much different from ours [18:26:44] By that I mean, even now and then it'll skip back a second [18:26:44] I'm getting reverb. [18:27:01] Pine, that'll be the room :) I guess there's another mic on [18:27:03] dont trust major media, trust faceboon posts :) [18:27:20] yes, there is an open mic and the speaker is not using the mic properly [18:27:23] HaeB: yeah, we talked to flower vendors and fortune cookie makers and all kinds of very interesting people [18:27:24] HaeB: sure. my objection at the time was more about general lack of awareness of the limitations of the method. we were being very self-congratulatory for a tiny tiny step out of our box. [18:27:33] should i stop the presentation? [18:27:45] brendan_campbell, nah [18:27:46] brendan_campbell: it's ok, I'd let it keep going [18:27:46] brendan_campbell: not necessary i think [18:27:50] cscott: if you remember I raised my hand and said this publicly and everyone looked at me like I had peed in the punch :) [18:27:57] if we had done this as an exercise and then been charged to "go forth and do the same" in much more varied environments, i wouldn't have gotten such a bad feeling about it. [18:27:59] Maybe coach on mic use beforehand. [18:28:00] i see the open mic...i will move it [18:28:01] ..we also met a woman from argentina who was a digital media professional and used enwiki but wasnt aware that there was a spanish version too ;) [18:28:02] milimetric: yeah. [18:28:10] Pine: i do coach on mic use beforehand [18:28:36] Reverb is better now, thanks [18:28:38] if only they knew the History tab [18:28:45] brendan_campbell: thanks. The doubling effect on my speakers isn't too problematic. [18:28:52] they could like to a specific revision. and the whole "it can be different tomorrow" point is gone [18:28:53] brendan is da bomb [18:28:54] see also https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Newsletter/2013/November#Student_perception_of_Wikipedia.27s_credibility_is_significantly_influenced_by_their_professors.27_opinion [18:28:55] but they usually dont know [18:28:56] HaeB: i got on the BART and tried to get to a more interesting part of town to do the exercise, but the time allotted wasn't really sufficient for that. [18:29:08] +1 to brendan being da bomb [18:29:26] Haeb: yeah this is the feedback I hear from all of our program leaders [18:29:30] oh man, experts write the articles! [18:29:31] Are the "3/15" part of the 7? [18:29:38] or do they total 10/15? [18:29:38] thanks! sometimes the youtube encoding process can add an aliasing effect (wobble) [18:29:44] We need to build dealing with that concern into our platform [18:30:12] foks: queued (unless someone knows he answer otherwise) [18:30:19] :) [18:30:21] foks - They seem like somewhat independent questions, but I also am not sure. [18:30:32] Yeah. [18:30:34] people in general fundamentally underestimate people in general. It's very weird, like, look around, we're pretty amazing :) [18:30:50] 2 edited in bad faith?! : ( [18:30:54] i_jethrobot: yeah that's my general guess too but not always easy to tell [18:31:05] I have edited in bad faith, i_jethrobot and so have many of my friends [18:31:05] Hey, my first edit was vandalism. [18:31:06] i_jethrobot, I assume that includes test edits (Let me just bold this entire section and see what happens!) [18:31:12] i_jethrobot: test edits aren't necessarily bad faith [18:31:13] milimetric: "they" are responsible for lots of things. it's hard to convince people that "they" could be themselves. [18:31:15] it's the most human thing to do when you hear "anyone can edit" [18:31:26] Yeah [18:31:26] vandalism != test edit [18:31:32] Yeah, that is definitely true, OK. [18:31:34] vandalism != bad faith [18:31:40] Thanks for pointing that out, everyone. [18:31:43] Pine, well, sometimes they are the same [18:31:48] it's the perception that changes [18:31:50] milimetric, what would you consider vandalism that is not bad-faith? [18:31:51] and the context [18:31:55] Yeah, there is some gray [18:32:03] foks: nahhh, we just CALL some test edits vandalism or some vandalism test edits ;) [18:32:06] vandalism is contained in bad-faith [18:32:07] :D [18:32:07] yeah [18:32:09] but not the other way [18:32:20] milimetric, okay, what is bad-faith, but not vandalism? [18:32:22] is there a more precise term for edits that are not intended to be suitable for publication, but aren't outright vandalism (e.g., playing with bold-face or other experiments)? [18:32:29] I actually know dozens and dozens of long term community members who started with vandalism edits [18:32:29] jaufrecht, test edit. [18:32:39] in fact arguably the majority of users I know..... [18:32:41] yeah, that's a test edit. [18:32:48] like "I wonder how fast someone will revert this..." [18:32:53] jaufrecht, there are even templates for such: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Test [18:32:58] There's also "test pages", which is a criterion for speedy deletion on a bunch of projects. [18:32:59] it's not malicious, it just shows lack of understanding [18:33:00] The next presenter in this metrics meeting (me!) started out as a vandal :-) [18:33:10] * foks bans Deskana forever [18:33:25] when we talk minority/majority languages, i want to encourage us to remember that it can go the other way, too. if you're searching for information for a trip to peru, why can't english wiki display info from eswiki? [18:33:28] I started with test edits on my high school page, and a little vandalism [18:33:38] Deskana: I have definitely heard this from a few editors. : P [18:33:39] 97,000 edits later [18:33:41] it's not just minority groups who want to be inoculated with majority culture, we could use some of the other way too. [18:33:44] cscott, or in that case, wikivoyage :) [18:33:44] milimetric, yeah, breaching experiments are an interesting case. [18:33:49] Ed17 is like that too [18:33:55] foks: yeah [18:34:15] I agree it's usually bad faith, though. [18:34:16] I think there's this huge gap between "normal internet user" and "person who understands wikipedia in the most rudimentary way" [18:34:23] (Breaching experiments I mean, not test edits). [18:34:28] and we at WMF tend to minimize that gap in our mind (because we're far from it) [18:34:32] we don't even know what local content we're missing from enwiki because enwiki readers don't typically go looking at the other wikis. [18:34:40] I would generally say that breaching experiment types are vandalism rather then test edits however that doesn't mean they aren't saveable ;) [18:34:43] (sp) [18:34:47] cscott, we know somewhat, from authority control and Wikidata. [18:34:48] cscott, that is true [18:34:54] @millitmetric, exactly -- thats our responsibility at the center of the movement [18:34:58] But the average person may not have intuitive knowledge. [18:35:14] for better of for worse, its how the responsibility has grown [18:35:15] sadads: yep, it's Haard :) [18:35:25] matt_flaschen: sure, but wikidata is still primarily a majority-language project still. [18:35:51] Deskana the vandal up next :) [18:35:57] milimetric: I've found that edit-a-thons can be good opportunities to work with new editors to understand that gap more concretely. [18:36:03] hahaha, just "the vandal" for short, Jamesofur [18:36:09] re: offline -- i'll just say here that i've been concerned with offline uses and working on this for almost a decade now. if folks want to work on offline, let's talk. [18:36:12] cscott, well, I'm not saying Wikidata is complete, I'm just saying it's strong evidence of English Wikipedia's incompleteness. And there are a lot of Wikidata stubs (with just links, no statements) even on less active languages. [18:36:13] Mediawiki page? She means metawiki I think... [18:36:17] (with OLPC before Wikipedia) [18:36:21] if you HAVEN'T seen the wikipedia.org changes you should go look because they're awesome! [18:36:26] ^ [18:36:29] yeah, you need some time of in-person interaction to emphathize with non-editors [18:36:34] +1 [18:36:34] foks: I'm not actually sure she did... it's a tech research trip ;) [18:36:37] more banners that tell people "did you know _you_ can edit this page" [18:36:44] for UI researche tc [18:36:45] i_jethrobot: I totally agree! I was saying that we should all (all staff) run one edit-a-thon per year or at least be encouraged to do so [18:36:52] so mediawiki.org wouldn't be out of the questoin [18:36:52] Jamesofur, we're gathering the stats on metawiki though, or trying [18:36:56] *question [18:36:59] matt_flaschen: yeah. i'm just saying, imagine if wikidata were first created in Devanagari, how many stubs we'd have. [18:36:59] I'm doing one this next quarter [18:37:13] foks: ahh [18:37:27] milimetric: I definitely support that. Glad to hear you are running one! Whereabouts? [18:37:27] Ooh, Japanese Wikipedia passed the 1m article mark! [18:38:22] i_jethrobot: Queens, NY, as soon as I fix the insanity that is my recent move to this apartment :) [18:38:25] * Pine thinks that Japanese Wikipedia should get more nurturing [18:38:33] milimetric, cool, send me an invite. :) [18:38:40] what was the change? [18:38:41] Do you know that we cannot click on the link showed on the slides (therefore not very helpful or informative for the viewers)? :) [18:38:57] pine: historically hasn't the Japanese volunteer community been hard to talk with [18:38:57] ? [18:39:35] sadads: they tend not to engage in movement-wide discussions. I wish that they would. [18:39:48] I think outreach to them is the route to go. [18:39:53] The trick is finding a few multilingual folks that we can bridge with. [18:39:59] sadads and Pine: That is what I've heard as well. I have some Japanese background, and I'm interested in trying to do some outreach there. [18:40:08] Pine: I'll be in Japan for 10 days in April, anything I could do to check in with local chapters there? [18:40:25] milimetric: we don't have a chapter or even a user group there, as far as I know. :( [18:40:30] Maybe try to start one. [18:40:41] Though, I'd like to start by actually editing there for a bit and getting to know the culture a bit. [18:40:48] might be a tall order for 10 days during a vacation, but I'll see what I can do when my wife goes to sleep :) [18:40:49] Wow, that is pretty surprising: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Japan [18:41:27] matt_flaschen: that page was last edited in 2013 :( [18:41:54] I see that Whym edited that page. He's awesome. [18:42:12] We need about 100 more Japanese Wikimedians like him. [18:42:27] * Jamesofur needs to find the David Bowtie gif [18:44:04] Jamesofur https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Autocompletion_suggester_after_-_david_bowtie.gif [18:44:10] Why don't you guess the language? [18:44:11] ::applause:: for Dan [18:44:13] CKoerner_WMF: thanks :) [18:44:15] Nice job Discovery. :) [18:44:22] yay discovery [18:44:25] Yay Disco! [18:44:37] Yeah, agreed. Nice work on reducing those zero search results. : ) [18:44:56] Cheol We're working on that! https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia.org_Portal_A/B_testing [18:45:11] we should perhaps keep google in mind here -- if most people are getting to wikipedia via google search results, it's worth checking how google is doing in some of these places. are they identifying the user's language correctly and pointing them to an appropriate wikipedia? [18:45:22] CKoerner, cool! love it. [18:45:28] * Pine likes maps. [18:45:40] Deskana Those were some beautiful gifs in your presentation. :) [18:45:47] * Jamesofur hates live demos :P [18:45:52] CKoerner_WMF: Their creator did well. ;-) [18:46:06] Jamesofur: por que? [18:46:24] Whoo! [18:46:37] (Spanish for "why?") [18:46:51] Pine: they are boring and distracting, I find it almost always better to have something recorded (either by video or gifs etc) and talk over it because you can engage with your audience and keep everyone listening [18:46:55] Congrats to Yuri and Max, and everyone else working on this [18:47:05] otherwise however you're trying to explain while also trying to make everything work (and it's never perfect) [18:47:12] Visual editor maps 8) [18:47:17] I love the new Kartographer extension, thank you for it! [18:47:21] ^^ [18:47:30] Thats amazing! [18:47:57] insert map feature is impressive, yea [18:48:46] Jamesofur, question for Discovery, "Have you started looking into how to cooperate with the OpenStreetMap community and foundation on encouraging people to edit, either on-site or at openstreetmap.org"? [18:49:14] Reminder: OpenStreetMaps USA conference will be in Seattle this year. Those who want to attend can talk to their budget managers and/or submit a grant request for Travel & Participation Support. [18:49:51] Tomasz has a great voice for giving demo's [18:50:04] sadads: Tomasz has a great voice in general [18:50:07] tomasz has a very microphone friendly voice [18:50:24] Seddon: He's from LA. I wonder whether that's because we're trained to think of LA accents as great voices because Hollywood's there? [18:50:29] Jamesofur that was Seddon, I am just rofl [18:50:42] sadads: yes, yes it was :) [18:50:48] Sadads Seddon.... its all the same [18:50:50] Seddon: ^ what I said up there [18:50:50] replace world map with chapters on https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Contact_us#Local_chapters ? [18:51:11] sadads: that's what you get for having a as a 2nd letter in your nick [18:51:12] Seddon: that would be a fascinating merge of characteristics [18:51:14] so it's zoomable and has the logos [18:51:19] i thought we had a nicer json editor in core? [18:51:20] mutante, not a bad idea [18:51:23] mutante: projections is something I would love to have [18:51:49] JSON is "really, really easy to do"? [18:51:50] :D [18:51:55] Pine, has the date and location for WikiConference USA 2016 been chosen yet? [18:52:05] whatami: not really, in fact very very hard for most people ;) [18:52:16] Once you know how to do JSON, the hardest bit is memorising the parameters that actually work. ;) [18:52:18] I'm pretty sure that Tomasz just said it was really easy. [18:52:20] matt_flaschen: that's pending a conversation between Peaceray and Bluerasberry, followed by discussions with Community Resources. [18:52:21] whatami, Jamesofur: yeah, but i was pretty sure we've got a better editor for json [18:52:35] whatami: Jamesofur you probably could use QGIS to create [18:52:37] matt_flaschen: the tentative date is the last weekend in August. [18:52:44] * kristenlans claps for demo [18:52:50] cscott: there are editors for leaflet out there [18:52:53] The loading speed seems awesome. [18:52:54] nice link, trevor [18:52:57] :P [18:53:18] we should have a JSON editor like chrome's CSS inspector has: auto completion of valid keys from context, typed value editors, etc. [18:53:44] that'd be awesome [18:53:58] but yeah, that's also the hardest part of CSS [18:54:09] remembering what actually works, and what doesn't [18:55:16] yeah ^^^^ [18:56:03] cscott: there is really no need. There are UI's that are for that kind of thing. [18:56:06] katherine is honestly really impressive at fielding difficult questions [18:56:08] foks I'd love to see an editor like what OSM has (ID): http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Id-May_2013.png [18:56:24] foks: yeah she is, there is a benefit to having a comms person in that position ;) [18:56:25] Jamesofur: hey! if you could get closer to the mic, that would be awesome [18:56:32] brendan_campbell: certainly! [18:56:37] thanks! [18:56:46] We need to hear that wonderful accent. ;) [18:56:46] CKoerner_WMF: I believe that is a mapbox thing [18:56:49] Seddon: yes, i'm describing what exists, not necessarily what we should be building ourselves [18:57:05] i like how the names of speakers shows up at the bottom in the youtube stream. [18:57:17] subbu: +1. Is that brendan_campbell again? [18:57:20] thank you [18:57:24] a followup q about china: are we *planning* to target china more specifically at any point in time? [18:57:27] This is a separate thing (editing the actual map, not editing the display), but we could even look at embedding iD on our site to edit OpenStreetMap without leaving the site. [18:57:37] Samat, Pine and cscott did those answers cover your questions? [18:57:39] Would want careful consideration and coordination. [18:57:40] cscott: it already exists most definitely. The software we are using is Leaflet.js and there are definitely UI based editors [18:58:00] Jamesofur: yes for now. :) Hopefully I'll have a chance to go through the AP this weekend. [18:58:03] No promises though. [18:58:04] Jamesofur: followup up there ^ [18:58:39] cscott: /nods/ [18:58:44] Jamesofur: but the answer is almost certainly, "no we don't have specific plans to target china more directly", and so it's something i should perhaps take up with the annual plan not the global outreach folks? [18:59:02] mainly, yes [18:59:07] Pine, the AP is mighty. Last time I looked, it was almost 20,000 words. :O [18:59:11] cscott: I think so, I believe Adele basically said that right now (she specifically said "but we're not looking at anything else right now other then preloads" ) [18:59:27] * varnent wondering why Zach is wearing a scarf… [18:59:28] Jamesofur: right. [18:59:29] Maggie_Dennis: sounds good. [18:59:34] the difficult issue will be getting the community members to actually READ the AP [18:59:36] Even preloads is probably going to be a tough battle. [18:59:47] * cscott notes that we lost another one of our very very few mandarin-speaking employees recently. [18:59:47] varnent: Zach usually wears a scarf I've found [18:59:48] Chinese government does not want to let Wikipedia grow, they prefer easily-censored products like Baidu. [18:59:50] he clearly likes them [19:00:09] It's a Gunners scarf [19:00:10] matt_flaschen: that sounds like an excuse [19:00:22] Maggie_Dennis: We'll have to start calling it the Mighty Annual Plan (MAP). :P [19:00:22] he's a big arsenal fan (I know, I feel sorry for him too) [19:00:27] cscott, I didn't say they shouldn't work on preloads. [19:00:34] matt_flaschen: we have not actually provided features for zhwiki in a long long time. [19:00:38] However, Chinese government opposition to Wikipedia is a reality, not a hypothetical or excuse. [19:00:43] but…the office isn’t cold…. [19:00:45] so glad to hear this question about UX asked [19:00:55] matt_flaschen: there are chinese speakers outside of mainland china. [19:01:31] foks: HAHAHAHA @ Gunners, honestly we can't be that surprised that he's an arsenal fan, it fits him :) [19:01:33] KM is also wearing a scarf - is there a new scarf cabal I haven’t heard of [19:01:39] cscott, when I said, "ven preloads is probably going to be a tough battle." I was talking about China, not Chinese language. I agree with you we should focus on speakers elsewhere, e.g. Taiwan and Hong Kong, emigrants, etc. [19:01:41] yeah, it's called Comms [19:01:43] anyway, my point is just that ignoring the chinese community of users isn't making anything better. [19:01:46] foks: :p [19:01:49] ;) [19:02:04] if there are challenges, all the more reason we should be formulating plans and actively trying to improve things. [19:02:12] foks: I've never seen YOU wearing a scarf when you visit :P [19:02:30]