[18:01:02] Is it not time? [18:01:13] marktraceur: We will be starting shortly. [18:01:32] Aha, a stream! [18:02:15] Audio seems fine [18:03:08] link? [18:03:33] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_grZDl3TJFc [18:03:49] ty [18:03:50] is the youtube stream pixelated for anyone else? [18:03:52] I will be your IRC host today! If you have questions, feel free to direct them to me. :-) [18:04:06] J-Mo: Not too much, no [18:04:18] * J-Mo moves closer to his router [18:04:46] foks: Thanks! [18:04:52] NP! [18:05:52] * marktraceur turns on a fan for all this channel heat [18:06:27] Everyone is shy since James_F|Away is away! [18:07:00] * awjr trout-slaps Deskana [18:11:09] I like that we're down to *half* in December. [18:11:28] K4-713: I like that that's "down" [18:11:47] :D [18:11:50] No pressure. [18:11:52] Is the average the mean or the median? [18:12:06] I will probably end up asking this question from IRC myself :-p [18:12:07] Deskana: mean unless otherwise advertised ;) [18:12:24] Deskana, Deskana can ask your question in the office. [18:12:30] so the fundraising team works all of December, and then like three days per week for the rest of the year. right? [18:12:31] :) [18:12:32] awight: Neat. So that's $14.35 even skewed by the outliers! Nice. [18:12:43] *three days per month [18:12:50] * K4-713 squints at ragesoss [18:12:54] Great talk, meganhernandez! I loved getting the overview. [18:13:03] Thanks Fundraising crew! [18:13:08] ragesoss: We spend the rest of our time working on the WikiEdu dashboard :p [18:13:18] * K4-713 squints harder at awight [18:13:39] * K4-713 looks like Clint Eastwood [18:13:47] brendan_campbell: ccogdill is quiet for me [18:13:49] * ragesoss looks innocent [18:14:12] * kristenlans laughs at K4-713 [18:14:50] turned up her gain a bit, but hard to really make it perfect because of the way she is holding the mic, unfortunately [18:14:51] If only we had donation buttons as elegant as in this presentation [18:15:04] Deskana: How did we measure "open rate"? [18:15:12] marktraceur: Got it. [18:15:17] Ta [18:15:20] marktraceur: You mean, in technical terms? [18:15:52] You mean 30 *times* the industry average? [18:15:55] (not percent) [18:16:06] (Sorry, I'm not sure who is talking atm) [18:16:17] Yeah, like...are we getting read receipts, which I doubt most modern clients pay attention to, or are we loading some 1x1px image in the e-mail from our servers and counting the hits? [18:16:28] (and feels Wrong™ somehow) [18:16:35] marktraceur: Understood. [18:16:39] foks: yep, that's correct :) it's partly because we send far fewer emails than most other non-profits [18:16:46] Nice. :) [18:17:06] Very impressive figures. I still am amazed how generous people can be. [18:17:21] marktraceur: I think it's an image in the email, but Caitlin would be able to confirm [18:17:27] OK cool [18:17:35] This newsletter test is great! [18:17:49] * marktraceur feels a little weird that we would do something like that, but understands the necessity [18:18:12] marktraceur: Of all the solutions to that problem, the image one seems like the least evil to me. :-) [18:18:31] Well, actually, not measuring open rates would be the least evil, but also the least useful [18:18:32] marktraceur: the-wub: yeah for example [18:18:45] Sorry to say... [18:18:46] marktraceur: If you count "Not doing it" as a solution to the problem, yes. ;-) [18:19:06] Deskana: I would say "should we solve this problem?" is a required question in the discussion of any problem [18:19:20] marktraceur: Agreed. :-) [18:19:30] ccogdill could give some good context about the privacy protections [18:20:06] I'm sure it's sufficiently non-PII, but just struck me as something we shouldn't gloss over [18:20:09] marktraceur: Do you consider your question answered, or do you still want me to task it? [18:20:15] *ask [18:20:36] Deskana: I consider it answered now, awight and the-wub have both chimed in [18:20:52] marktraceur: Right. Thanks! [18:21:03] The 58% who give with first banner must be of those who give at all, yes? [18:21:25] It says "of donors" so that's how I interpreted it, yes [18:21:31] janstee: yes [18:21:42] good point [18:22:22] and how do we know they only saw it once? [18:22:59] janstee: cookies which contain a count that we increment each time they see a banner [18:23:32] that is cool [18:23:58] Obviously if they clear their cookies they'll see it again but that's a 'moderately' small group (non zero but rare in the grand scheme of things, more common for people in WMF/very experienced community just because of the type of people we are) [awesome people, obviously] [18:24:01] janstee: hehe--if you like that, AndyRussG is about to present the next generation system for collecting that sort of information [18:24:13] janstee: Also. It's like... the first time on a particular device, so it doesn't cover somebody who saw one on a phone and then donated later on their desktop or something. [18:24:37] I saw a graph a couple years ago (2-3 years ago?) that shows it drops off pretty steeply after the first couple of views, and IIRC that led the fundraising team to say "if someone's seen 5 banners and hasn't given yet, they probably won't ever give, so let's stop showing them banners at that point" [18:24:58] RoanKattouw: Yep. [18:25:16] That lead to banner hiding being a standard. [18:25:17] K4-713: unless they log in :S [18:25:30] cwd: We don't run banners to logged-in! [18:25:34] Speaking of banner fatigue, we've noticed that some campaigns run outside of fundraising seem to believe that more impressions is better... and therefore display 100% of the time, with no maximum. [18:26:04] By campaigns in this context you mean things like "go vote for the board election" or "Wiki Loves Monuments starts next week", those kinds of things? [18:26:08] We are gently socializing hiding features. [18:26:12] awight: I have noticed that too, and I don't like it very much. [18:26:22] awight: Yeah, we should get that data to the people for their own stuff. You know... without manual intervention on our part. [18:26:24] RoanKattouw: u got it. Have you seen those banners once or twice? :p [18:26:27] I dislike overdosing on banners and notifications in general. [18:26:30] More than that :P [18:26:50] K4-713: That's key. Yeah being able to measure efficacy will probably create helpful feedback loops [18:27:02] Yeah, the WLM banners are pretty crazy. [18:27:38] K4-713: i got WLM banner logged in... [18:27:42] awight: yeah, definetly something to watch but also definetly important to remember the difference between fundraising banners and non. For example we know that the click rate on the privacy policy banners a while ago never changed (like over the course of a month it was AMAZINGLY consistent no matter what level we set it at) and some other tests have shown [18:27:42] that for some types of campaigns the added impressions are really useful and for some they're really not [and obviously for lots and lots of campaigns we don't have strong evidence either way] [18:28:01] i know you can opt out when logged in [18:28:06] cwd: Yeah, but *we* (fundraising) don't run to logged-in. :p [18:28:07] cwd: yeah, it's just fundraising banners hidden when logged in [18:28:15] Metacomment - Impact is a terrible typeface that sucks. [18:28:21] gotcha, thanks [18:28:44] definetly the largest datrabase [18:28:45] database [18:29:10] Jamesofur: Largest DB? [18:29:14] If we ever get the newsletter extension fully working at large scale, I'd like to see a lot of notifications that otherwise get indiscriminately blasted out in banners instead organized nicely in newsletters. [18:29:19] Did I miss something Strine said there? [18:29:24] RoanKattouw: for civiCRM [18:29:28] Oh, hah [18:29:31] Yeah I believe that [18:29:32] that we're the largest Civi install [18:30:00] K4-713, the-wub : what does this box do in that case? https://sadbastard.org/banners.png [18:30:12] qgil: by the way, what is the status of the newsletter extension? [18:30:13] Jamesofur: sort of--New York State Senate has more data in CiviCRM, but they spread it across multiple servers [18:30:43] cwd: ooh, I wasn't aware of those prefs [18:30:45] awight: yeah, that's why the largest database bit is key. I know they do it but in the end it's really "lots" of mostly separate installs [18:31:01] cwd: we used to show fundraising banners to logged in users several years ago. that option's left over from then [18:31:04] awight: They're Gadgets which AIUI just add a bit of CSS [18:31:13] the-wub: got it, thanks! [18:31:28] cwd: Yeah, throwback to like... 2011? 2012? [18:31:40] very early 2010? [18:31:47] we shut it off pretty early on in 2010 iirc [18:31:51] Jamesofur: :D [18:31:54] ;) [18:32:07] mediawiki: always adding options, never removing them :P [18:32:42] Remember, if anyone has any questions they want to be asked, I'm happy to take them. :-) [18:32:44] awight: What/when is Andrew presenting? [18:32:48] It's never it for fundraising ;) [18:32:49] * Jamesofur ducks [18:32:57] TITLE! [18:33:00] * RoanKattouw was expecting that to happen as part of this fundraising thing but didn't see it [18:33:05] References [18:33:11] The title, surely. [18:33:14] * foks tuts. [18:33:22] what was dario's question? [18:33:32] What is the most important aspects [18:33:34] *aspect [18:33:37] subbu: "What is the most important element of a Wikipedia article?" [18:33:43] thanks. [18:33:55] Paragraphs [18:33:59] carbon? silicon? [18:34:00] A downside of the new slide design - you lose info when the slide is changed [18:34:02] Obviously [18:34:18] ragesoss: [18:34:24] :-p [18:34:27]
[18:34:53] RoanKattouw: good Q-- AndyRussG: are you in the "product demo" slot or something? [18:35:03] (well done, Deskana) [18:35:17] I'm a big fan of banner history and hope it's still on the agenda... [18:35:21] RoanKattouw, awight: Should be the product slot, yeah. [18:35:27] kk [18:35:39] awight: yeppers [18:35:46] Really cool to see how valuable Wikipedia was during the Ebola outbreak. [18:36:14] One of my other favourites: https://i.imgur.com/BSuTH9X.png [18:36:21] "How long does it take to cook a chicken?" "20 minutes" [18:36:22] Uh... [18:36:32] WolframAlpha is referenced there.... [18:36:32] * K4-713 blinks [18:36:48] Also the answer is clearly 30-35 minutes, based on that answer [18:36:51] When you do the goat search, there is a Wikipedia blurb at the right with attribution to Wikipedia. [18:36:52] Granted they don't say where they get their info from. [18:36:56] Agree they should be attributed separately. [18:37:24] 'okay Google, what is the lifespan of an online community?' [18:37:37] ragesoss: 0+ years [18:37:42] Thankfully, Citoid means inserting them isn't a huge headache any more! [18:37:46] The answer from Wikipedia is "We'll let you know really soon" [18:38:17] Deskana: 20 minutes at 900 degrees [18:38:53] mdholloway: But you'd have to let it cool for like an hour [18:39:14] mdholloway: If you count "eradicate all germs" as "cooked"... :-p [18:39:22] "How long does it take to burn a chicken?" [18:39:27] Pressure Cookers, my friends. [18:39:34] That chicken is a WITCH [18:39:39] I roast a chicken in like 25 minutes. [18:39:40] Set the oven to 900° [18:39:47] marktraceur: true, or straight in the freezer for another 15-20? [18:39:55] mdholloway: Mm, good point [18:40:02] melodykramer: I bet that would make a good chili [18:40:16] It likely would. [18:40:18] * marktraceur thinks we're maybe getting distracted from DarTar [18:40:26] * ragesoss googles how do i know if my chicken is a witch [18:40:30] "Our sponsors include the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation and the Gordon and Betty P. Moore Foundation" [18:40:37] I feel like I'm listening to NPR [18:40:42] which is a good feeling :) [18:40:56] You just like "P" as an initial. [18:40:59] * foks side-eyes. [18:41:08] ragesoss: Well, does it weigh the same as a duck? [18:42:07] * Jamesofur groans at foks [18:42:52] Deskana: are you taking questions for the general Q&A queue? [18:43:04] Pine: Yes! Ask away. [18:43:15] Cool. Can we get an update on CTO hiring, please? [18:43:31] Pine: I will ask. I'm not sure the right people to answer are here, however. [18:43:57] OK. [18:44:25] foks: P₀? [18:44:48] Pine, unfortunately the C-levels are on retreat this week :( [18:44:49] * marktraceur wishes that didn't take so long, and looked better [18:45:06] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/2016-2017/WMF_Leadership_retreat <-- retreat agenda [18:45:10] the inmates are running the asylum! [18:45:30] ragesoss: ;) [18:47:09] "donations come from people not pageviews" - I like that! very true [18:47:44] the-wub: So much. Yes. [18:47:47] Jamesofur: thanks for the link. [18:48:19] It's nice that all that info is public. [18:48:30] I believe they plan to post the notes there as well once done [18:48:38] Deskana, question: How do you measure the cost of showing an additional banner, when comparing to predicted benefit? [18:48:50] matt_flaschen: Got it! [18:49:10] Thanks [18:50:38] Jamesofur: off hand, do you recall when the next regular Board meeting is scheduled? [18:51:09] I can go find it if you don't know off hand. [18:52:17] ^ Deskana, reminder about quesiton [18:52:34] * awight cheers AndyRussG without using his globally unique identifier [18:52:50] matt_flaschen: Sorry! I was trying to ask it but my microphone died. [18:52:54] puppies in the office! [18:52:55] matt_flaschen: You're up next. [18:53:20] Any other questions? [18:53:29] Thanks, Deskana. Sorry, didn't realize your mic was dead. [18:53:35] matt_flaschen: No worries! [18:53:50] Pine: nope, they just had the september meeting so I imagine that the next big one is in December and possibly a short monthly one later in October [18:54:26] OK. I thought I saw a meeting agenda but I can't recall which meeting it was for, and I'm not finding the agenda now that I'm looking for it. It's OK though. [18:54:37] WHAT IS THAT SLIDE [18:54:47] AMAZING [18:54:48] So much pink [18:54:49] that's what it is [18:55:12] +1, great metrics [18:55:19] matt_flaschen: great question. I wish we had a better answer :) [18:55:20] Oh my, you folks have an office dog now ? [18:55:25] Puppy!! [18:55:47] Anyone on IRC got any Wikilove they wish me to share? [18:55:49] we have multiple office dogs that sometimes hang around (none of them every day but multiple of them are regular visitors) [18:55:57] AndyRussG, thanks. I like the idea of the close button as a first pass. Maybe that can help distinguish between mild annoyance (just scroll down) and greater annoyance (click X). [18:55:59] Oh! Speaking of office IT, the audio was good today, so thank you to OIT. [18:56:10] Can I send Wikilove to that puppy? [18:56:13] :3 [18:56:18] Beast! [18:56:18] matt_flaschen: that's a good idea! [18:56:25] AndyRussG, you said that. :) [18:57:03] WIKIPUPPIES! [18:57:05] SEVERAL [18:57:07] Thanks a.. :-) [18:57:11] O_O [18:57:21] oh, there's a doge! [18:57:22] We all need all the therapy animals we can get ;) [18:57:28] \o/ [18:57:33] Kttens on the slides and puppies in the office [18:57:50] * awight becomes fuzzy at the edges [18:58:01] That link again for those wanting to keep it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_grZDl3TJFc [18:58:05] can anyone send out "wikilove"? [18:58:15] Next OIT "pet project": kitten cam for when the adoptable kittens are in the office. [18:58:28] *Public kitten cam [18:58:41] Pine: good idea, we can make that happen! [18:58:46] I guess I missed the on-air part, but I would like to send a congrats to the whole fr-tech team for all the hard work in the FR pipeline trenches! [18:59:05] It's grueling and a lot more complex than many people think [18:59:42] working on payment processors, refactoring queues, and my colleagues have been doing a phenomenal job [18:59:48] I'm sure running all of those A/B/C/etc tests is quite a job [19:00:05] I'm convinced that we should let all of Fundraising keep their jobs ;) [19:00:31] yeah! also working with flaky payment processors who change their APIs because fun [19:00:38] I actually want to borrow some designers from FR for my projects. Is that allowed? [19:01:01] * Pine covers his ears in anticipation of a deafening "No" [19:33:11] /win 19 [19:34:06] I agree [19:35:56] I'm more of a win 18 person