[17:55:19] Heya. [17:55:55] * guillom waves. [17:58:29] * Jamesofur likes the new "pre meeting" screen [17:58:59] shows its working before we actually need it [17:59:32] * James_F hands Jamesofur an apostrophe [17:59:44] Anyway. [17:59:45] Hello. [17:59:57] It's everyone's favourite time, monthly metrics! [18:00:16] I'm here to proxy your questions in IRC to the speakers; I believe there'll be questions at the end. [18:00:19] Oh, this is good. we can watch this video later and painstakingly figure out each of James_F's keystrokes. [18:00:38] If you have any thoughts, reactions or queries, please do sing them out as we go. [18:01:10] I'll keep a list of them and get them answered for you at the end (if they haven't already been by the always-helpful denizens of this channel). [18:01:16] And we're off. [18:01:49] If you have any audio or video issues, please mention them to brendan_campbell so he can fix it. [18:02:17] brendan_campbell: audio is a little echo-y [18:02:49] the mic in the room, in particular. [18:03:11] thanks. on it [18:04:57] (Applause for Finance in the office.) [18:05:10] BTW, documentation from the quarterly reviews is being published at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_metrics_and_activities_meetings/Quarterly_reviews#Q1_2016-17 [18:05:23] Thank you HaeB, was just going to try to find that link. :-) [18:05:49] (not sure if we still announce these on the mailing lists) [18:06:08] (Is Katherine supposed to be presenting video right now?) [18:06:16] by the way the email puts a link https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_metrics_and_activities_meetings which didn't exist, I have redirected it (it was in the text, a correct HREF is beneath it) [18:07:17] saper, nice one :) [18:07:39] brendan_campbell, we-- oh, thanks. [18:07:41] :) [18:08:26] foks: maybe the template is b0rken [18:08:37] Also, another discussion happening right now: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Values/2016_discussion [18:08:40] Which email is this? [18:08:48] wikimedia-announce something [18:08:52] ah [18:09:01] by the way I think sending 30 minute reminder to -announce is a bit too much [18:09:37] I believe this has been done forever? [18:09:49] For at least a few years, yes. [18:09:51] yes, it can be :) [18:09:56] But that doesn't mean we can't change. [18:09:57] it's just me bickering [18:10:08] Ah :) [18:10:22] tiny bit echoey no biggie [18:10:22] Kemayo: Apparently you get a \t as a middle name. :-) [18:10:32] o/ zareen [18:11:13] 5 years! o/ halfak [18:11:14] As one does. [18:11:21] \o/ \o/ [18:11:46] :DD [18:12:24] There are 53 people watching on YouTube. I'm wondering how they found out about this (I imagine at least some from -announcement) [18:12:24] -announce [18:12:25] \o/ zareen and halfak :) [18:12:40] melodykramer: The mailing list post probably. [18:12:52] just to clarify: wlm international contest results will be announced in December. ;) [18:12:59] melodykramer: I'm watching it on youtube :) [18:13:14] many might be staff who have it linked in the invite [18:13:22] melodykramer: But as debt points out, we don't know how many are staff, yeah. [18:13:30] it's feedback, not echo - brendan_campbell [18:13:34] Yeah! Me too! (I just was commenting on whether it was appropriate to link to -announce every month. If people are coming from there, we might want to continue doing it, even if it's annoying for some!) [18:13:44] * James_F nods. [18:13:56] it was also posted at https://twitter.com/Wikimedia [18:14:56] Yup, I'd be curious about what methods people use to find out, just so we can see if we're reaching them in the most effective ways for other events. (i.e. if 0 people come through XX for 3 months, maybe we drop XX.) [18:15:11] +1 [18:15:15] Is it just me or did bearloga emphasize the "bear" in bear with me? :) [18:15:39] neilpquinn: yep! [18:17:02] What is SPARQL? [18:17:42] foks: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:SPARQL_query_service [18:17:51] foks: it is magic [18:18:03] link to some of the dashboards mikhail is mentioning http://discovery.wmflabs.org/ [18:18:12] foks: It's a techno-nightmare. SemWeb+SQL+WebServices. But it lets you build very cool things. [18:18:12] ty HaeB [18:18:38] what did I miss, what did I miss? [18:18:51] delphine: … since when, in what context? [18:19:06] in the past 15 min :) [18:19:23] delphine: Oh. Watch the video at 2x from the start to catch up. ;-) [18:19:34] (Reminder for any questions.) [18:20:01] neilpquinn: the emphasis on bear was intentional :) [18:20:26] good job, bearloga ! [18:20:27] bearloga: haha, very nice. [18:20:42] btw, what happened to the new editor update that erik moeller used to give at the beginning of the metrics meetings? [18:20:45] echo on the youtube stream [18:20:52] Adele sounds like she's from outer space ;) [18:21:05] it's kinda cool [18:21:15] apologize for that... [18:21:17] working on it [18:21:20] Global reach IN SPACE. [18:21:22] brendan_campbell: no worries [18:21:22] Yeah, I think there's a slight bit of mic feedback [18:21:40] some speakers are too close [18:22:03] we'll survive. [18:22:36] brendan_campbell: better [18:22:46] brendan_campbell: it's better great [18:22:54] pajz: we now have a rotating schedule of presenting editing, reading and discovery metrics in this meeting (every three month each, by the corresponding audience team). today was discovery's turn [18:23:00] i'll pull the resonant tones out of the commons recording [18:23:15] pajz: now the Editing, Reading, and Discovery analysts rotate presenting the metrics segment each month at this meeting. So the once-every-three-months Editing (me and Helen Jiang) will present about editing metrics. [18:23:37] lost audio in the hangout; everyone is muted right now. [18:23:37] neilpquinn: o/\o [18:23:38] thanks [18:23:45] pajz: and that should include some info on new editors [18:23:56] no audio on Hangouts [18:24:08] Volker_E: On YouTube? [18:24:15] sry, yes [18:24:25] brendan_campbell: ^^ [18:24:29] works again [18:24:33] working fine here [18:24:33] Aha. [18:24:33] it's here from germany [18:24:37] sorry...didnt realize people were watching on hangouts [18:24:45] do I assume that volume is low to avoid feedback and other issues? [18:24:48] pajz: also, I just gave a presentation including some of that info for our quarterly review. notes at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_metrics_and_activities_meetings/Quarterly_reviews/Editing,_October_2016#Metrics [18:25:13] HaeB: good teamwork :) [18:25:13] aspergos: yes, you assume right. audio is not low on the stream, just the room [18:25:28] ok [18:25:30] thanks [18:25:41] thanks, brendan_campbell :) [18:25:43] that's ap not asp (just so you know) [18:27:29] I'm interested to know what primary sources of information folks in those areas are using [18:27:40] on the internet [18:27:51] Thanks, apergos, in the list for asking. [18:27:55] brendan_campbell: Great idea to have the speaker video on top of slides. [18:27:57] ohhh. thanks! [18:27:58] brendan_campbell: YOU ROCK [18:28:01] Thanks for that. [18:28:21] embedding the little screen thing, that's fantastic [18:28:24] As you can tell, I'm still working out some kinks with the new software, but thanks [18:28:25] more of it! [18:28:41] * subbu spots kannada on the slide [18:28:49] * delphine hugs brendan_campbell [18:29:08] neilpquinn, thanks for the link [18:29:19] More info on the phone surveys: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_Reach/Insights [18:29:27] basically what I was looking for [18:29:38] pajz: cool, glad I could help :) [18:29:46] :) [18:29:56] jorgevargas_: Thanks. [18:30:25] pajz: we also want to build dashboards which are always displaying that info, but I'm not sure when we'll get to that :/ [18:30:56] subbu: in my office they put a dishwasher-something note written in devanagari script; funny to see scribbled-on fixed to the wording [18:31:19] neilpquinn: happy to help with that, dashboards are super quick :) [18:31:30] saper, where is your office? [18:32:03] subbu: Frankfurt in Germany [18:32:26] so confused why you have a note in devanagari .. :) [18:32:27] he's my neighbour ;) [18:32:43] am Main, not Oder, I assume. [18:33:00] subbu: I think somebody wanted to be nice to Indian co-workers they have there [18:33:10] James_F: the default one, yes :) [18:33:10] aha ... [18:33:30] saper: Tut. Wikimania 2005 had to be careful to stress 'am Main'. [18:33:39] Who is talking? [18:33:39] He's connected to the internet, so gotta be Main. [18:33:46] Read Wikipedia! #yolo [18:33:47] foks: Jon Katz. [18:33:51] OK, thanks! [18:33:53] foks: (Lead PM, Reading.) [18:34:10] I may not be around for Q&A, but if it doesn't come up, can someone ask whether the survey respondents were asked if they knew of other big internet properties, like Google, Bing, Facebook, and Twitter? It would be an interesting baseline to compare against. [18:35:04] Trey314159: Will do. [18:35:19] Media includes both news and entertainment? [18:35:33] That seems like a big things to group together [18:35:37] Trey314159: This the Reading surveys, not the Global Reach ones? [18:35:37] project page on meta about this research: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Characterizing_Wikipedia_Reader_Behaviour [18:35:59] leila, ^ see my Q above [18:36:12] halfak: hard to tell apart those days I am afraid :( [18:36:21] milimetric: thanks for the offer. but of course we want to make sure we know how to maintain things and have thought carefully about what we want to dashboard. so we have make sure we have enough time to take you up on it :) [18:36:53] Fair point, but I think people will differentiate between the words "news" and "books/movies/music/tv/etc." [18:36:59] halfak: that's the exact response that they have chosen, if they're under media: "the topic was referenced in a piece of media (e.g. TV, radio, article, film, book)." [18:37:26] Does a link preview count as a page view? [18:37:41] Samwalton9: not in the current way we compute pageviews [18:38:48] leila, will all of these results be captured here? https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Characterizing_Wikipedia_Reader_Behaviour [18:38:51] halfak: and fyi, there was another response "I want to know more about a current event (e.g. a soccer game, a recent earthquake, somebody's death)." [18:39:07] Yeah... That's really what I was looking for :D [18:39:14] current event == news? [18:39:24] halfak, a summary of them, yes. the full results will be in the paper, and the link to the paper will be put there once the paper is submitted. [18:40:03] brendan_campbell! It's getting better by the minute. The split screen now! [18:40:16] leila: very good question, it is my primary motivation to look something up, exactly defined like this [18:40:17] We in the office are denied these delights. [18:41:49] oooh. Wikipedia-hole undermines duration-based prediction of initial intention? [18:42:24] saper: :) happy to hear it. We did a lot of work to come up with these questions. ;) Here is the full survey if you're curious [18:42:25] https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScMlASJHyfX_Q9a4pOYCoWgqDZ3liII9uKthYqEjGaWbgKXjA/viewform [18:42:46] Woah /o\ split screen is amaziing!! \o/ [18:43:03] yes, very nice [18:43:14] My brain just interpreted the (very light) feedback noise as the Jeopardy thinking song. [18:43:25] leila: would be cool to confront with wikipedia editors' views - some folk in my community say "Wikipedia is not for ephemeral current events" [18:43:37] time to re tune the room [18:43:38] every spike we have puts the lie to that :-D [18:44:00] but i cant fix the feedback issue without making a ton of nasty feedback, so i apologize [18:44:04] will be better next time! [18:44:29] no worries. In a way it's mildly pleasant -- made me think it was a very quiet song for a moment. [18:44:53] Most importantly, we can understand what people are saying! [18:45:14] split screen! <3 [18:45:30] it's worse for people in the room, because i have the volume pretty low to combat feedback [18:45:31] Next step is a CNN-style quad-box. [18:45:33] brendan_campbell let's just make a sound proof box that everyone presents from!! ;) [18:45:36] apergos: I know, that's why I keep editing the main page news sometimes [18:45:45] :-) [18:45:50] saper: they may still say that, and that's what I'm really interested for us to discuss more. Now that we know 20% of the requests to enwiki are for in-depth knowledge, what should we focus on? [18:45:52] byron, lool [18:45:53] im in chat [18:46:09] brendan_campbell: congrats for the setup where remote folk is advantaged :> [18:46:17] saper: are we going to focus on increasing that 20% number, as an encyclopedia? or are we going to focus to satisfy the need of the other 80% [18:46:27] saper: I have a lot more questions than answers for you. ;) [18:46:32] leila: not sure [18:46:51] that was indeed the context, James_F, thank you. [18:46:54] leila: we call it "Encyclopedia of a first contact" [18:46:58] sorry, hangout crashed on me :\ [18:47:02] Any other qs? [18:47:11] apergos: Good. Wanted it to be anchored. [18:47:21] OK, thanks everyone! [18:47:25] First contact? /me calls The Borg. [18:47:36] James_F: would that be possible to put nicks of speakers on the agenda? (if possible in advance - better) [18:48:02] Whaaaaat [18:48:03] saper: You mean IRC nicks? Some of them aren't here, and those that are are mostly busy during the meeting. ;-) [18:48:08] also, that splitscreen looks amazing [18:48:23] ok brendan_campbell now I think you're just having fun ;) [18:48:25] James_F: no, wiki nicks [18:48:33] James_F: it now just lists topics [18:48:46] James_F: Should out to the Wikimedia labs team for their (mostly thankless work) for keeping that critical infrastructure online and usable. I wouldn't be able to do any experiments without you! [18:49:00] James_F: nicks or names or other form of PII for that matter [18:49:02] thank you! [18:49:13] saper: Kk, will ask to put the names in. [18:49:35] * milimetric shudders at that use of PII [18:49:51] Who's speaking? [18:49:59] Lisa G [18:49:59] Niharika, that was Lisa Gruwell [18:50:06] Ah, thanks. [18:50:07] halfak: thank youu <3 [18:50:24] <3! [18:50:53] saper, I'm User:EpochFail on-wiki [18:51:00] Or User:Halfak (WMF) [18:51:19] halfak: thanks... which presentation was yours? [18:51:32] hey James_F, re: your question of where people go for info on the internet, I have some results from a separate survey of US college students that may be interesting to you (can't remember if I shared this with you already): https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Student_use_of_free_online_information_resources/Results [18:51:34] I didn't have one this session. Just thought you'd appreciate knowing. [18:51:37] Wikilove to everyone involved in reviewing APG proposals these days [18:51:42] James_F: [18:51:44] Since I made a public thanks comment [18:52:06] J-Mo: For apergos actually. But I'm interested too! [18:52:09] thanks for hanging in there everyone! audio will be better next time [18:52:21] brendan_campbell: the split screen thing was great [18:52:22] halfak: :):):) thanks a ton. Mine is the same, nice to meet you! [18:52:22] delphine: Totally. Sorry, got it too late to read aloud. :-( [18:52:25] wikilove idea is awesome! [18:52:28] no problem [18:52:34] J-Mo: I was hoping to get that kind of data for other countries [18:52:38] brendan_campbell: thank you for bringing the future :) [18:52:41] I was late to the party [18:52:43] delphine: thanks! i've been wanting to roll that out for awhile now [18:52:58] brendan_campbell: so I like the embedded speaker in slides [18:52:59] finally have the gear to make it happen [18:53:02] where I don't even have a clue what the basic go-to sites are! [18:53:04] and the split screen for Q&A [18:53:37] thanks brendan_campbell to immediately react to the lost audio! :) [18:53:46] brendan_campbell: you'll just have to make sure the speaker answering the Q&A stays in the frame ;-) [18:54:41] delphine: yeah, i'll prompt folks to stay on that side of the stage next time [18:54:54] or i will scaled both camera views down so the full frame fits in the shot [18:54:59] scale* [18:55:33] I'm out, thanks for hosting ! [18:55:59] brendan_campbell: just caution tape it :) but it was very good with the speaker and the audio was great even with a bit of feedback [18:58:02] Just realized my feedback suppressor device was lying to me all presentation. As soon as I reset the power, it started working properly. [18:58:36] l'espirit d'escalier [18:59:09] *esprit [18:59:46] Exactly [19:06:12] James_F: my Q was for Global Reach.. glad you figured it out at the last minute. (Still catching up on YouTube). Thanks! [22:25:19] brendan_campbell: picture-in-a-picture video? neato -- what sw/hw are you using for that? [22:25:19] (and hi1) [22:25:29] ! [22:25:29] There are multiple keys, refine your input: bugzilla, logs, clippings, [22:26:42] hey cajoel! Hope all is well. Using the AV Bridge and 2 capture cards feeding into the Mac Mini. The software is OBS. Streaming directly to YouTube Live using OBS [22:26:51] https://obsproject.com/ [22:27:37] neato -- the thunderbolt capture cards? [22:27:53] blackmagic? [22:29:33] Using a loaner laptop to host a hangout for remote presenters feeding into the thunderbolt blackmagic card. The other capture card is the Magewell XI100DUSB. Feeding an output from the Matrix switcher into the Magewell card [22:29:56] I like the Magewell card a lot. Takes any HDMI input (unlike the blackmagic card) [22:30:17] yeah, the blackmagic was always finnicky [22:30:32] I'll have a post on wikitech before the end of Q3 with my setup explained [22:30:39] nice [22:30:44] q3 goal? [22:30:53] Yup [22:31:17] fun fun -- miss you guys -- glad to see you're still getting stuff done. [22:31:18] ttyl [22:31:44] Yeah, let's all meet up some time and catch up. Thanks for the shout. Ttyl