[17:53:51] Heya everyone. [17:57:40] _o/ [17:57:49] Hello everyone! [17:58:06] * foks boots up ye olde youtube [17:59:56] We'll be starting in a minute or two. [18:00:59] Danny Kaufman is our compère today. [18:01:47] (the means presenter) [18:02:04] No, there are several presenters. :-) [18:02:06] and what will be the entrée? [18:02:10] compère means master of ceremonies [18:02:16] I'm feeling a little peckish [18:02:17] so main presenter [18:02:18] host [18:02:27] emcee [18:02:32] I can't hear them.... there it is! [18:02:56] Emufarmers: New Readers and Movement Strategy each get 10 minutes, so… joint plats principaux. [18:03:15] So much Français. [18:03:30] As always, if anyone has questions beyond my abuse of the French language please do ask. :-) [18:03:43] \o/ \o/ [18:04:58] James_F, congrats! [18:05:23] foks: It was actually last month. ;-) [18:06:08] note to self: if I ever have to emcee, I'm going to only say people's first names. [18:06:35] Heh [18:06:45] I emailed people to confirm how to pronounce their names [18:06:52] Then *still* butchered them [18:07:07] Language is hard. [18:07:48] speaking is overrated :) [18:09:09] also, Margaret Epps here, I'm based in Baltimore, MD, not SF :) (so hopefully no one is looking for me there!) [18:09:52] meppstimist: Welcome, wherever you are. :-) [18:10:07] meppstimist: people outside of Sf are my favorite people ;) [18:10:20] meppstimist: what bd808 said :) [18:11:23] :( [18:11:34] Welcome though, meppstimist :D [18:11:36] hi meppstimist, and welcome ! [18:12:00] foks: I still <3 you all [18:12:13] thanks all! and foks, I think you were just reflecting that I'm there in spirit [18:12:14] (you're just dang expensive!) [18:13:12] ;P [18:19:17] Wow, have we ever run ads before? [18:19:35] A good question that James_F might ask :) [18:19:42] Yep, I'd appreciate that James_F. [18:19:58] (Assuming he is the IRC czar today.) [18:19:59] Will do. [18:20:46] Keeping with today's terms, James_F is the IRC hôte. [18:21:10] matt_flaschen: Ads? [18:21:14] Did I miss something Zach said [18:21:25] Ads about wikipedia to raise awareness. [18:21:25] Less hôte and more boniche? [18:21:32] In Iraq. [18:21:46] RoanKattouw, yeah, what guillom said. [18:22:03] Oh, advertising our site elsewhere rather than running other people's ads on our site, got it [18:22:14] Was anyone really surprised that people do not read URLs and extract branding? [18:22:36] bd808, no. I will note that the search box has always said Wikipedia, so there wasn't no branding, just light. [18:22:36] bd808: The people that spend millions on vanity URLs probably do. [18:22:54] typical web users have no idea that the urls actually exist. they find everything via search [18:23:03] Also, even on desktop, where it's quite obvious you're on Wikipedia, a lot of people consciously or unconsciously see it as an extension of Google, and don't see it as a destination (and may not know what it is at all). [18:23:33] * James_F nods. [18:23:39] James_F: VCs and startups don't count :) [18:23:54] * foks hides his personal .rocks domain [18:24:14] foks rocks regardless of the domain name. [18:24:18] <3 [18:24:44] bd808: I thought about what you told me when Zach said "no one considers URLs as brand marks" [18:25:15] question: are we still going to use the puzzle globe Wikipedia logo in the advertising campaigns? (the branding on the mobile website does not use it) [18:25:56] probably. We will definitely SHOW the mobile web site in Iraq and Nigeria videos [18:26:35] wp zero in iraq?! super cool! [18:26:36] We will also probably put the puzzle globe at the end of all videos. [18:27:09] Zack_: Maybe you can answer matt_flaschen's question ("Wow, have we ever run ads before?") here? [18:27:46] Partners have run ads on Wikipedia's behalf before... like Orange did in Cameroon. [18:27:57] https://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/06/20/marketing-free-knowledge-on-mobile-in-africa/ [18:28:15] Thanks Zack_, HaeB. [18:28:22] But the Foundation has never done it, which means we didn't own and could not re-use or freely license them [18:28:42] "Orange’s approach in Uganda has been through an “upgrade your knowledge” campaign that is blanketed throughout the country. They’ve put up over 100,000 flyers, 100 street pole posters (pictured), and noticeboards at 11 universities. In addition, they’ve even run radio ads. All this helps get the word out about free knowledge, and for many people [18:28:42] in Uganda, it may be the first time they’ve heard of Wikipedia." [18:29:04] that low frequency droning sound is coming from eddie...sorry about that [18:29:14] Understood brendan_campbell, thanks. [18:29:16] i'll try and pull it out of the mix [18:29:17] Zack_: *nod* very excited that we are now doing this ourselves! [18:29:50] So the new Iraq ad is run directly by us, right? [18:29:57] And is it also mentioning the ISP, or just Wikipedia? [18:30:04] HaeB: thanks for this link, trying to pull together all of this stuff from across our history [18:30:51] matt_flaschen: the video ad is produced by us, so we will own the footage and allow it for cc licensing [18:31:17] matt_flaschen: for this promo period (1 month) it will mention our telecom partner [18:31:17] Zack_, is it going to mention the cell carrier/ISP, or just Wikipedia? [18:31:31] Zack_, will it continue on TV after that, just wondering? [18:32:11] matt_flaschen: the telecom has also committed some of their ad inventory on Youtube and Facebook (possibly TV too) for this ad. [18:33:16] matt_flaschen: after the 1 month we will need a new distribution plan. placing ads on social networks and TV is often more expensive than video production, so we are hoping to build partnerships with media companies that may "donate" ad space to us [18:33:20] ...or https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/What_is_about_-_C%27est_quoi._A_series_of_communication_tools_about_Wikipedia._Cameroon_pilot_project/Final [18:34:50] This is a really cool project :) [18:35:01] Zack_, noted, thank you. [18:35:38] sadads: Yes! [18:35:43] Though the deep hum adds a very Bladerunner tone to the presentation, to my mind. :-) [18:36:16] haha, yeah: but Bladerunnner for indegenous languages, would be a fascinating adaptation :D [18:36:16] Needs more synthwave. [18:36:42] blade runner saw synth bass line makes metrics that much better [18:36:50] The fight against synthetic languages? [18:37:31] matt_flaschen: of course \,,/(^_^)\,,/ [18:39:15] (So far I've had one question, now answered in-channel; if you have any questions, please do sing them out.) [18:40:44] Thanks to Global Voices. The indingenous language work is really cool. [18:40:50] amazing [18:40:54] +1 [18:41:17] YES [18:41:21] well, at least it's not cat pictures ;) [18:41:27] HaeB: Yet. [18:42:13] ...well, this is new [18:51:00] Any questions? [18:51:23] The end goal for strategy is one statement? [18:51:31] Or ... what does "finished" look like? [18:51:40] Kk. [18:51:48] Do we have to ask questions in enoji? [18:51:53] *emoji? [18:52:11] our model for a finished strategy statement: http://www.lettersofnote.com/2011/07/internet-tidal-wave.html [18:52:18] foks, 👍 [18:52:27] :( [18:52:30] That's me answering your question in emoji. My IRC client doesn't render it, yours might though. [18:53:27] I meant more like ... is it a paragraph? [18:53:29] a sentence? [18:53:33] Something else? [18:53:35] it's a long memo [18:53:39] Not timeline. :D [18:53:44] that insults Netscape [18:53:49] heh [18:54:10] with an appendix: " [18:54:10] Related reading, double click to open them On-line! (Microsoft LAN only, Internet Assistant is not required for this part):" [18:54:20] I thought charities were exempt from Do-Not-Call in the US... [18:54:38] (Building good-will with every edit, losing it with every call to a Do Not Call registry number TM) [18:54:52] Awwww. /me hugs Roan. [18:55:19] I see a dog. Whose dog? [18:55:30] Kacie's I think! [18:55:44] (Yes, Kacie's.) [18:56:10] foks, looking through https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Process/Design and related links, I don't see a description of the final product of Strategy [18:56:25] This is why working on strategy is so hard to get my head around. [18:56:30] It feels like there is no "end". [18:56:52] That's really cool. [18:57:01] the end is a presentation at Wikimania this year, but exactly what the artifact being presented is is not specified [18:57:02] I dunno how useful it is to come up with all of these awesome ideas but have no real idea of what the final thing is going to look like or be [18:57:07] That it's running VE (and presumably Parsoid) too. [18:57:10] foks: I, for one, hope that there is an end to strategy :p [18:57:10] okay, so it's a presentation [18:57:18] the closest is, "refine the top 3-5 thematic clusters" [18:57:19] matt_flaschen: Yup. [18:57:21] guillom, so do I! [18:57:39] followed by, "develop priorities for the next 3-5 years" [18:57:56] RoanKattouw, what is the website for this. [18:58:08] matt_flaschen: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiFundi/en [18:58:12] foks: basically there will be presentations at wikimania, and a big document after that, and then discussions about who does what. But a big part of the "final product" is the alignment and trust we're building *during* the process. [18:58:25] * foks nods. [18:58:34] matt_flaschen: (and http://www.wikifundi.org/ etc.) [18:58:34] We'll need the strategy by next year to use it for annual planning (WMF and others) [18:58:45] so we should have *something* by then :) [18:58:47] I guess we're looking for the themes we can build out actual deliverables under. [18:59:15] I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be difficult :) [18:59:36] guillom: so there will be a final document like previously for https://strategy.wikimedia.org ? [18:59:43] It's just really hard to understand what is going on and what we are trying to do without knowing where the process will finish, or indeed what it will look like when it is [18:59:48] Another reason we haven't been too specific about the final product is because we're not sure. Because if we know what it is, then people think this is all rigged. The truth is that we're building this as we go. [18:59:57] HaeB: yep. [19:00:01] Interesting [19:00:27] i agree talking to each other in the movement and building connections is great, but people have other opportunities to do that too... [19:00:33] does someone know the estimated cost of one wikifundi unit? [19:00:45] chicocvenancio: Florence mentioned something like $200 I think. [19:00:55] James_F might be able to ask. [19:00:58] But I could have got that wrong [19:01:00] But we're at time now :( [19:01:13] What guillom said, I think. [19:01:30] guillom, that sounds like a lot, hope its cheaper... [19:01:45] Oh, harej, I think the dog is Caitlin C's. [19:02:04] Can I give a shoutout to that dog? [19:02:07] Hmm yes I didn't think it was Kacie's, hers is bigger [19:02:21] Thanks everyone. [19:02:32] noone loves me :( [19:02:39] I imagine a mockup of the output of our strategy process might be: "By 2030, Wikipedia is still a top-10 destination, gets 50% of edits from VR headsets in China and India, and has 1 million Featured-Article-quality articles in emoji" [19:02:41] Bleh, there's so much lag. [19:02:48] The meeting is still going for me :( [19:03:01] foks: There's a really easy fix for that. :-P [19:03:07] using intentionally bogus details so that isn't mistaken for an actual strategy proposal [19:03:11] foks, for me as well... just fineshed [19:03:15] same [19:03:17] jaufrecht, that's more of a ~~humble-~~ brag than a strategy... :) [19:03:42] Yeah there is a good 60 seconds of lag on the stream [19:03:45] jaufrecht, so my ask probably wasn't as clear as I'd like it to be [19:04:01] But it sounds like we're aiming for a sentence? [19:04:04] jaufrecht, Featured-Article-quality articles in emoji sounds like a good ideia [19:04:10] Or a few sentences. [19:04:22] Meh. I'm just one person who doesn't get it ;) [19:06:57] Speaking as someone not part of strategy design, [19:07:12] I picture the output as a presentation that could be summarized by a big sentence like that, and then [19:07:16] and this is what's not clear to me, [19:08:32] possibly another layer like, "and we'll achieve this by putting [quantity] WMF budget and volunteer effort in an emoji recruitment and translation effort, doing X Y Z software, halting efforts to improve the Mayonnaise page, etc etc etc" [19:08:44] Heh [19:08:54] I don't understand exactly where the "how" comes from but it seems like it comes after the presentation [19:08:58] OK, it's actually the first part that I'd like to be clarified [19:09:07] And that does a good job, so thanks a lot. :) [19:09:12] ask guillom [19:09:35] There was some discussion around the end state at WMCON. I'm poking around on meta to see if I can find things from that. As I recall the "strategic direction" is hoped to be a cohesive paragraph about where we are heading and then there will be "focus areas" about more concrete things that will be part of getting there [19:09:37] The "how" should be the easy bit. [19:10:56] at a super-high-level, there's epistemelogical questions. What should an encylopedia look like, in terms of medium (structured text, video, etc etc), truth and verifiability, Western ideas, freedom, licensing, ...? [19:11:11] I think that's one-half level too high for this strategy process, but I'm not sure [19:12:39] Mm [19:12:52] As I say I don't think that part is of concern at this stage [19:13:08] I just wanna know what form the actual 'strategy' will take [19:13:30] the "output" of the WMCON track is here -- https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2017/Documentation/Movement_Strategy_track/Day_3#Results [19:13:39] thematic statements [19:14:28] * foks nods [19:14:33] this I can understand :D [19:14:54] this slide deck talks about the "what's next" parts -- https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/19BpFH6CkKz9QML26S4cNG3vDhBAb2_9Tk95pbdgSAJM [19:16:39] so I think its about further clustering with those statements from MWCON and other statements from other groups, then voting and refining with a goal of getting to the 3-5 "most important" ones [19:17:43] and then making up a way to describe how those are related at a higher level (?) [19:18:44] as a tactical person, I'm most interested in the 3-5 big ideas so I can start to work on plans to get us from where were are today to those desired outcomes [19:19:32] "thinking big" usually just makes me tired because I have to fight my tactical instincts