[18:00:08] Hey everyone. It says the YouTube is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6nIP4VFIi8 . [18:00:59] o/ [18:01:06] * brion awaits teh magic [18:01:25] Hello everyone, I will be the voice of IRC todayf [18:01:51] we'll be underway momentarily [18:02:13] Hi [18:02:30] Hi [18:02:38] Can someone add the YouTube to the topic? [18:02:43] I'm not an op [18:03:12] We're starting now, Jaime Anstee is hosting [18:03:15] i see video on youtube [18:03:27] and i hear audio :D [18:03:39] brendan_campbell, I was thinking, it would be good to have a better description for the YouTube video. It doesn't say anything about the Foundation or the meeting, just what day it is and how the potential audience has grown over time. [18:03:43] I'll send an email. [18:04:24] matt_flaschen: good thought. that's more of a question for Comms, though. [18:04:29] Thanks for the thought though [18:05:43] :D [18:05:49] Ooh split/screen [18:05:58] I LIKE the split screen! [18:06:07] i feel more connected ;) [18:06:11] [María Cruz] [18:07:56] [Marco] [18:07:58] Finally, remote week [18:08:50] Apologies for the audio drop there [18:09:09] My fault...pressed the wrong button [18:09:28] What's his affiliation/project/role? Sorry, I missed that. [18:09:39] matt_flaschen: president of wikimedia chile [18:09:40] Chile [18:09:40] matt_flaschen: President of Wikimedia Chile. [18:09:43] Thanks [18:09:48] the agenda link just in case https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_metrics_and_activities_meetings/2017-06 [18:12:52] Thanks, quiddity [18:14:44] [Yvonne] [18:16:04] RoanKattouw: Correction - Ivonne (Kristiani) [18:16:45] You're right, thanks [18:16:56] This is great. It's good to see the really wide outreach. [18:16:59] There's a pillar obscuring my view of the very left side of the screen :) [18:17:25] Question: What are the most-read language Wikipedias in Indonesia? [18:17:37] Low awareness of how Wikipedia works in the US too. [18:18:12] matt_flaschen: Listed your question for the Q&A at the end [18:19:36] Thanks [18:20:41] [Tomasz] [18:20:45] (President of WMPL) [18:28:00] I missed a little of the narration. But there is a third way beyond self-censorship and leaving the country/getting blocked entirely. [18:28:10] Disable HTTPS so they can block individual pages. [18:28:23] I don't support censorship, but that's far better than violating NPOV or self-censorship. [18:28:45] Disabling HTTPS would come at the price of letting intermediaries manipulate content between server and client. [18:28:46] At least that way readers know they're being blocked. [18:29:12] harej, true, but is there any evidence that has ever happened on Wikipedia (used by governments to modify content)? [18:29:27] For what it's worth, there's at least one community that *begged* for HTTPS-only for that reason. [18:29:37] (a sufficiently smart block on non-https can replace the page with a government-approved version) [18:29:46] [Jorge Vargas] [18:29:49] I realize that in theory, but has anyone actually done it. [18:29:52] (maybe that hasn't happened yet but ... give em time) [18:30:12] It would be nice to have a way to ensure integrity without preventing per-page blocking. [18:30:26] At any rate, I don't think any kind of self-censorship is acceptable. [18:32:09] There was an academic study recently saying that the all-or-nothing approach to censorship that HTTPS forces has resulted in less censorship of Wikipedia overall [18:32:10] (it does seem like it'd be nice to have a threat model somewhere _between_ "assume network is safe" and "north korea") [18:33:27] RoanKattouw, that's good to hear (as far as hard blocking), but I doubt they measured self-censorship. Per the slide, that could be used under the duress of avoiding a full block. [18:34:00] [Adele] [18:34:24] Not sure the best overall solution, but we should push back against self-censorship. [18:34:40] Q: Where were the salon meetings in the USA? [18:34:50] matt_flaschen: Is that for Jorge? [18:34:54] RoanKattouw, yeah. [18:34:59] Or anyone that knows. [18:35:17] Right; I also meant, in response to Jorge's presentatoin [18:35:33] RoanKattouw, yeah, he mentioned salons in the US for strategy process. [18:35:45] Aha OK I missed that mention [18:35:45] Wondering if it's only SF, or other places (NYC?, ...) [18:35:52] As part of a list of countries. [18:36:19] Added to the Q&A list [18:36:23] There were definitely strategy meetings in the US but I don't think they were necessarily led by Jorge's team [18:36:38] harej, yeah, he didn't say they were, he just mentioned them. [18:36:45] (This is not to preclude that there were ones that *were* led by his team.) [18:36:55] [Caitlin Virtue] [18:37:00] the salons in the US were NYC, DC, SF - we were opportunistic about where we were traveling. we knew it wasn't possible to cover everywhere, which is why we worked to develop the community-led model [18:37:19] better to be distributed to local communities than to fly WMFers everywhere :) [18:37:50] the DC one had substantial remote participation too [18:37:54] we're... special [18:38:18] kmuthu, agreed, but would be good to have somewhere not on the coasts. We have a strong Minneapolis presence, but really anywhere else (in addition) would be good (either WMF or local-led, or both). [18:38:19] [Adele] [18:38:23] Sorry, krmaher [18:39:06] Thank you for the answer. [18:39:21] of course. if that's something you are able/interested to organize, we can find a way to support it. [18:39:42] the DC and New York ones were grassroots. It's up to the Minneapolitans to organize [18:40:08] krmaher, I also live on the coast, but we have some staff that live in the interior. Also some not in MN. [18:40:22] harej, maybe. I'm sure some of these other salons have WMF funding, right? [18:40:38] yes. [18:41:21] I'll send something to wmfall. [18:42:26] Huge +1 to this. We should speak out, help people get access (all forms) to free knowledge. [18:42:36] [Caitlin] [18:42:49] Things like Open Access, not just thinking about zero-rating. [18:43:21] reverse... what? [18:43:33] Snobbery, I think? [18:43:38] [Adele] [18:44:09] Yes, that's what the quote was. [18:44:11] [Caitlin] [18:44:18] People don't know where we stand on free knowledge, or broader issues? [18:44:25] Missed a little on that. [18:44:59] matt_flaschen: "on open knowledge" is my understanding [18:45:33] On the one hand, most people have no idea what open knowledge is, so it's understandable from that point of view. [18:45:49] But if the people who *do* know what open knowledge is don't know our stand, that means we've gone very wrong somewhere. [18:45:52] "Wikimedia should be an influencer in shaping world policy for access to knowledge." It's a broader approach of being more proactive in helping shape world policy - beyond stating our position. [18:45:57] We need participatory video editing!!! [18:46:01] [Adele] [18:46:14] @harej so... popcorn? [18:46:16] yasssss :D [18:46:27] jorgevargas__, good point. I guess maybe it's unclear how much we're willing to act on our principles in the broader world. In my opinion, we need to do more. [18:46:28] [Caitlin] [18:46:30] krmaher: have you had any conversations with andrew lih about this? the man has dreams [18:46:37] (and has shaped most of my perspective on this issue) [18:47:00] @harej: not andrew, but ben moskowitz at length [18:47:18] yeah, but I noticed this heavily in the more technical areas as well, matt_flaschen. A few weeks ago Dario and I were in AI for Good Summit (a trip report of that will come out soonish) and it was surprising for me how almost no one other than Dario or myself talked about the important of open access, open knowledge, open ... to make sure we don't leave people behind as we move forward. We can do much more to showcase what we do in this space, why it's [18:47:18] (i also have a good connection to the internet archive and i think they're a natural partner for this endeavor) [18:47:33] (i would like to note i cannot lead this project; i am just going to complain that we don't have it) [18:47:46] harej: thanks for clarifying. lol. [18:48:06] [Adele] [18:48:35] leila, well, it's not a surprise that the broader tech industry is still pretty anti-open knowledge, my surprise is the argument people don't know where *we* stand. [18:48:51] I guess anti- is a little strong. [18:49:01] leila: BTW you got cut off after "space, why it's" [18:49:03] [Jaime] [18:49:05] Maybe more accurate to say it's not a principle issue for them, and they're only willing to go a limited distance. [18:49:08] matt_flaschen: I imagine to most casual users of Wikipedia, they don't think "hey a cool website that has everything" naturally translates to "we are politically motivated to make information available" [18:49:24] harej, agreed, see my "On the one hand" [18:49:41] matt_flaschen: they know our stance better when it comes to Wikimedia content, but our code, our (other) data, our processes: these are all open and people are not aware of them as much as we perhaps think they are. :) [18:50:02] I'm very thankful for that [18:50:11] RoanKattouw: thanks. It was "...why it's important, etc." [18:50:22] leila, good to know, thank you. [18:50:52] np, matt_flaschen. [18:53:12] [Ivonne] [18:53:19] Amplified, but it's a little soft. [18:53:55] Thank you [18:54:05] [Adele] [18:54:08] I think we are all strategied out. [18:54:32] see also https://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportPageViewsPerCountryBreakdown.htm [18:54:35] Indonesia (1.0% share of global total) [18:54:35] Indonesian Wp 61.3% [18:54:35] English Wp 35.5% [18:54:35] Other 3.2% [18:54:52] [Jaime] [18:55:07] sorry about the drop, RoanKattouw . had to adjust something [18:55:08] [Leila] [18:55:12] should sound better now [18:55:14] Thank you, HaeB [18:55:17] and edits (similar) https://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportPageEditsPerCountryBreakdown.htm [18:55:43] Shout outs to RoanKattouw for keeping track of the rapid speaker changes [18:56:03] brendan_campbell, still a little soft. [18:56:27] [Zack] [18:56:41] Big than you and congrats to the QueERG group for the Pride Parade participation and award! [18:56:47] *thank [18:56:56] [Caitlin] [18:57:15] +1 to jlohr [18:57:53] [Robert] [18:58:02] Robert-Robert, not Roan-Robert :{ [18:58:11] :P [18:58:19] cd coreyfloyd [18:58:32] sorry coreyfloyd -- wrong window [18:58:34] [Jorge] [18:59:22] [Adam] [18:59:42] [Joe] [19:00:11] [Jaime] [19:01:18] whee :D [19:01:43] Until next time! [19:15:34] joal: np... you need anything or just a total accident?