[17:54:21] Hey everyone. We're going to be starting monthly Metrics in a few minutes' time. [17:54:36] I'll be the IRC person, as so often. :-) [17:55:03] If you have questions, please sing them out in here so I can get them asked and answered – either right in here as the session goes, or in the live Q&A towards the end. [17:55:54] YouTube stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q3I2NabB3U [17:56:16] Thanks brendan_campbell [18:00:16] Starting very soon now, we're all silently agog here at Wikimedia Towers™. [18:00:52] OK, and we're live. [18:01:03] (Video stream is always a few seconds late, but you should see it soon.) [18:01:14] o/ [18:01:19] If you have any video or audio issues, please shout out so that brendan_campbell knows and can fix it. [18:01:23] no stream yet [18:01:28] got it [18:03:37] Just got the stream. [18:03:43] Had to refresh a few times :| [18:06:00] Yay maps features! [18:11:20] btw the banner campaign also led to a marked increase in readership (mostly temporarily, but possibly also leaving some lasting increase). also in terms of alexa rank (where wikivoyage has been catching up a lot on wikitravel in the past year or so anyway) https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T187244 [18:11:30] HaeB: Nice to know, thank you. [18:11:36] HaeB: about to cover that :) [18:11:57] Seddon: oh, didn't realize you were presenting too [18:12:18] HaeB: I went and dug and dug into the data since you first mentioned it to me [18:12:49] HaeB: decided that 1) its definitely persisting 2) we need to repeat and look into it more [18:12:59] so mentioning that :) [18:13:14] great! [18:13:49] Seddon: are you "next sliding" or are you sharing your screen? either option works for us [18:13:56] next slide :) [18:14:02] right on, thanks [18:14:36] I'll be screen sharing [18:16:45] Great presentation Alexander [18:16:57] +1, it was great. [18:17:22] got it, edsanders [18:19:50] @Seddon that is fascinating [18:20:04] @Sadads I know right [18:21:04] @Sadads Like.... there are more questions than answers now at this point [18:22:31] @Sadads but if all those questions go our way then there is real potential for us to be able to sustainably grow our smaller projects in terms of their readership [18:23:08] That has all kinds of different applications of that kinds of knowledge though: especially if the increase in traffic is consistent -- wiktionary, wikisource, etc [18:24:01] pet peeve: GLAM-wiki collaborations, even with major institutions, existed long before 2009, i.e. avant la lettre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:GLAM/Boot_Camp/2013#.22first_GLAM_meeting.22_2008.3F [18:24:33] thanks for taking traffic from Wikitravel .. boo InternetBrands :) [18:24:43] yay Wikivoyage [18:25:27] GLAM research report: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Supporting_Commons_contribution_by_GLAM_institutions [18:25:35] @Sadads Indeed. Now WikiVoyage is something a little special. It was a mature project from it's inception and brought with it a community [18:25:48] I'll make sure to link to Sandra's workflow stuff from there as well, once she's published it [18:25:51] @Sadads Wiktionary is also not short in terms of traffic [18:26:06] @Sadads It used to be in itself a top 100 site [18:26:23] (Periodic reminder that if you have any questions for our speakers, now would be a good time to shout them out in here.) [18:26:25] @HaeB GLAM-Wiki wasn't an international brand or systematized tactic as such until the GLAM-Wiki meeting in Australia, and the subsequent fallout of the British Museum residency [18:26:31] props to Sandra for great remote audio, btw [18:27:05] Concur [18:28:48] Structured Data on Commons and Documentation are both focuses of the Wikimedia Hackathon in Barcelona :D [18:28:49] Sadads: i know (i myself covered this extensively in the signpost at the time), but we should distinguish the branding/marketing side (which is important!) from the existence of actual collaborations [18:29:07] rfarrand that's great news! [18:29:20] Neat :) [18:29:30] Watching from SF Bart :) [18:30:01] @HaeB I think Sandra was indicating the shared practice -- when our team publishes work we are careful distinguish that transition [18:30:11] german national library authority file collaboration in 2005, major image donation by the german national archive in 2008 [18:31:11] yep aware of those precedents :D [18:31:12] Not seeing Ed's slides on the YT stream [18:31:16] Oh wait now I am [18:31:18] nm [18:31:21] Kk. [18:31:29] Sadads: the audience might not be though ;) [18:31:34] RoanKattouw: try refreshing [18:32:04] RoanKattouw: not sure what happened there but i experienced the same thing [18:32:18] HaeB I'll make sure to mention those pioneering cases in next presentations :D [18:32:21] the stream encoder is showing 0 dropped frames, so must be on the youtube side [18:33:45] well done spinster. thanks for presenting our work so well! [18:34:01] +1 great job @Spinster :D [18:34:11] thanks spinster! [18:37:10] !!! In that 2015 study we did look at edit completion rates! [18:38:25] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:VisualEditor%27s_effect_on_newly_registered_editors/May_2015_study [18:38:44] "newcomers [are] less likely to save edits they start and they spend ~18 seconds longer editing before hitting save when they do" [18:38:48] halfak|Lunch: yell at him :) [18:39:05] I mean, not right now [18:39:32] Honestly, I'm not surprised at all that they are seeing a higher success rate now, but I don't know if it has been experimentally validated. [18:39:35] halfak|Lunch: We get people in the IRC help chat who are panicking because they see the word “Publish” and don’t know what it means [18:39:39] (Periodic reminder that if you have any questions for our speakers, now would be a good time to shout them out in here.) [18:40:02] not sure how to turn this into a question. [18:40:03] hmm [18:40:26] Vermont, to be fair, I'm not quite sure what "publish" means either [18:40:38] I also wouldn't be sure what "Save" or "Submit" mean. [18:40:54] Unless the button said "Make a revision and make this revision the current revision that people will see" [18:41:09] i know "save" but what's a revision? [18:41:13] We moved to “publish” because “save” sounds like it might be a draft [18:41:20] remote joke telling takes confidence haha. can't hear the office laughing i would imagine [18:41:38] brendan_campbell: Ed has lots of that, thankfully. [18:41:57] brendan_campbell, the trick is to laugh at your own jokes ;) [18:42:04] Lol muppet Christmas carol [18:42:09] good point [18:42:11] Ed also doesn't care if people don't laugh :P [18:42:14] re save vs publish: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Editing/Publish [18:42:17] It's their loss [18:42:17] #injokes [18:43:28] James_F, Q for Ed. First a correction and then a question. We *did* look at edit completion rates in the 2015 study and at that time, the rate of edit completions decreased compared to a control (wikitext only). Has there been a controlled study since then that demonstrates the higher edit completion rate you said you were seeing? [18:45:30] Any more questions? [18:45:38] We just casually sat in front of the Emirates Stadium haha [18:45:47] Ed* [18:46:02] Well, for one measure we filtered them out, but for several others we did not :P [18:46:14] tzatziki: It will not surprise you that every single article he demonstrated is part of the team culture [18:46:21] Oh well. To be misunderstood is part of having things to say. [18:46:29] Thanks James_F [18:46:32] mostly because I coped them from old presentations :) [18:46:36] I'll debate Ed some other time :) [18:46:45] edsanders, ^ [18:46:50] oops [18:47:12] I love the wikiitext visual editor [18:47:25] Honestly that is just brilliant [18:47:27] Thanks for the collab team for being ahead of expectations with the maps work [18:47:52] halfak edsanders: i suppose this is about https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:VisualEditor%27s_effect_on_newly_registered_editors/May_2015_study#Ease_of_editing "filter loads of the edit pane (VE or Wikitext) where the user aborts without making a change since copying (Ctrl+C) from the edit pane without intending to make an edit is a common usage pattern of Wikitext editor." ? [18:47:54] edsanders: That was Byron :) [18:47:57] Either way, I think the message that VE has come a long way and is actually quite good came through clearly. And I agree with that 100% [18:48:15] HaeB: that's right [18:48:33] Thanks everyone! [18:49:03] thanks for putting goats in the wikilove slide [18:49:03] WHERE ON META? [18:49:19] 🐐🐐🐐🐐 [18:49:33] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_metrics_and_activities_meetings/Future_meetings [18:49:36] halfak: clearly on that part of meta [18:49:41] you know [18:49:44] lol [18:49:49] Sorry - there was a link on a slide - but due to a glitch the slide accidentally got skipped [18:49:49] thanks varnent [18:49:51] where it's at [18:50:05] Don't miss our presentation at Wikimedia Conference: How to build a movement in 3 days: What we’ve learned from #goatification [18:50:12] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018/Program/44 [18:50:25] ^ rfarrand <3 [18:50:31] That's awesome. [18:50:52] #🐐 [18:51:21] i guess then the question is how common this c+p usage pattern is (i.e. could there also be other situations where the user exits without making a change, and if yes, how can we justify the assumption that they are insignificant)? was there data about this in 2015? [18:54:38] HaeB: yeah, I don't think we ever measured that to justify the assumption that it was a significant amount (although it would be technically possible to do that in future) [18:55:21] I don't think it invalidates the study, it's just important to be aware of it when you analyse the results [18:55:25] re: goatification https://goatsimulator.gamepedia.com/Official_Goat_Simulator_Wiki [18:56:11] wow! [18:57:02] Auregann_WMDE ^^