[16:05:58] hello! I have two questions :) here is the first one: is there a way for tool developers to use something like Grafana to monitor metrics on their services? [16:07:10] ah, wrong channel [19:49:50] * Lucas_WMDE claps [19:49:58] thanks for the talk! [19:50:03] will the slides be made available? [19:50:09] the slide is very qaulity [19:50:26] so is the rollout timeline 24 months then? [19:51:05] would you recommend that editing tools / bots start using Parsoid instead of wikitext? [19:51:09] (the youtube screen shows the slide in a splitscreen dsplay, kind of small btw) [19:51:10] I assume it would work like this: ask Parsoid for HTML of revision X, edit the HTML, ask Parsoid to turn it back to wikitext and send that to the action API [19:51:12] is that about right? [19:52:12] (thanks subbu) [19:52:16] Lucas_WMDE: It depends on the use case [19:52:31] your API workflow sounds about right [19:53:05] I’ll check it out, thanks! [19:53:13] one more question since there's not a lot of people asking: will there be a formal spec of wikitext at last? [19:53:15] not having to use something called “MediaWiki parser from hell” would certainly be nice :D [19:53:40] (FTR I wrote that comment *before* I heard you mention the module in the stream, lol) [19:53:40] you should be able to do most things with HTML, some simpler tasks might be easier in wikitext [19:54:23] there's a formal spec of the HTML dom, more or less [19:54:53] for wikitext proper, that will probably have to wait until wikitext 2.0 (where we remove enough corner cases and weirdnesses to make a spec possible) [19:54:56] my s3kr1t gol is that standalone parsers in other languages could be written agains the spec and we would know they worked, see.... [19:55:06] apergos: yes +100 [19:55:25] and I expect that after the port of parsoid and etc. [19:55:30] certainly not before! [19:55:30] can I question to make a former clap clap clap for subbu? [19:55:31] apergos: but wikitext has always been tightly integrated with the template mechanism of mediawiki, which makes a standalone parser less useful [19:55:50] yep that's always an issue [19:55:56] Lucas_WMDE: there's a clone of mwparserfromhell based on parsoid output called 'jsapi' (yes, boring name) [19:56:09] Lucas_WMDE: i'd love for more people to try to use it for wiki tasks [19:56:37] cscott: neat, thanks! I’ll look into that as well [19:56:48] sing it! [19:56:54] subbu we know you can [19:56:56] (though I’m growing quite fond of Python for my tools) [19:57:01] apergos: my goal is to parameterize the template mechanism (based on DOM subtree replacement, more or less) so that you could meaningfully decouple the wikitext parser from core. [19:57:09] * cscott claps for subbu [19:57:25] cscott: I'll be looking forward to following that work [19:57:37] *cries in Article 13* [19:57:42] apergos: put another way, a decoupled template mechanism would mean that you could use markdown (or whatever) on your wiki as well. [19:58:00] yes it would [19:58:12] * Lucas_WMDE applauds everyone [19:58:20] or (less controversially) "wikitext 2.0", while still having older articles written in "wikitext 1.0" [19:58:27] uhhh [19:58:34] yeah not a fan of that :-D [19:58:46] subbu: 👍 [19:58:56] ty all! [19:59:04] great talk subbu, now we know what to request for karaoke next year [19:59:08] subbu: Great talk! Loved it. [19:59:20] apergos, ha ha ... true. [19:59:50] Niharika, ty [20:00:06] ok going back to my regular haunts, see you all there [20:00:41] apergos: you mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Songs_about_Wikipedia/Wikitext_I_Love_You_So ? [20:01:10] subbu: gosh, I've promised to make a talk about the kafka job queue by the end of March, but now you have set the bar way to high [20:01:32] Pchelolo, you can do it! [20:01:48] way too high man [20:16:34] cscott: Can we make that a regular at all-hands karaoke? I've never heard it! [20:49:13] Niharika: i sang it at last year's all-hands karaoke. i was going to reprise this year but i have a red-eye flight to make. [21:02:33] Let's have a re-do next year. :) [21:34:29] The slides for the talk published @ https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Long_And_Winding_Road_To_Making_Parsoid_The_Default_MediaWiki_Parser.pdf