[16:27:32] Wikidata IRC office hour starting in a few minutes :) [16:30:16] #startmeeting Wikidata IRC office hour [16:30:17] Meeting started Tue Apr 9 16:30:16 2019 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Auregann_WMDE. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. [16:30:17] Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. [16:30:17] The meeting name has been set to 'wikidata_irc_office_hour' [16:30:34] Hello everyone! Who's here for the Wikidata meeting? \o/ [16:30:48] Hello! :) [16:31:34] Hola! [16:31:41] hello Lydia [16:31:41] \o/ [16:31:44] \o/ [16:31:50] hello y'all! [16:32:09] I hope you're doing well! As usual, we'll talk about past and incoming developments, as well as other cool things, then have time for questions. But you can also ask questions anytime during the meeting$ [16:32:28] Also, the notes of this meeting will be published onwiki later, as usual :) [16:32:41] Let's go! Lydia_WMDE has plenty of good news to announce! [16:32:54] Hehe yes indeed [16:33:08] A lot of things happened since the beginning of the year. [16:33:14] So let's have a look [16:33:28] We spend quite some time on Schema support. [16:33:30] Hello all! [16:33:59] There are already a few groups around Wikidata that make use of a standard called Shape Expression to define how data in their area should look like. [16:34:19] To then be able to check if any of their items for example are missing important properties and so on [16:34:48] We've now worked on making it possible to store these on Wikidata itself. You can already test it on https://wikidata-shex.wmflabs.org and hopefully soon on Wikidata itself. [16:34:52] * Lucas_WMDE whispers “hi everyone!” [16:35:00] We are currently only waiting on the security review and then we're ready to go. [16:35:15] This will be another important piece to help us all keep the data on Wikidata in good shape. [16:35:44] In the meantime, if you want to learn more about Shape Expressions, you can check the documentation on the wikiproject page https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_ShEx [16:35:46] Another thing that occupied a lot of the dev time was the termbox. That's the box that holds labels, descriptions and aliases. [16:36:07] also known as "the box that holds labels, descriptions and aliases" [16:36:28] It is currently not shown on the mobile view. It is currently also not possible to add a new language that isn't already there or in your prefered languages. We want to change both things. [16:36:43] And that requires quite some work behind the scenes to make it all come together. [16:37:08] The good thing is that as part of that we are experimenting with better technology that will help us in the future in a lot of other areas of Wikidata as well. [16:37:31] That will still take some time to complete but it's making good progress. [16:38:07] Then we wanted to be a bit more artsy and added a new datatype for musical notation so you can have pretty notes to illustrate songs and so on. [16:39:03] We also did a lot of small usability fixes for Lexemes and made them show up nicer on social networks. So when you now share a link to a Lexeme it'll get a nice card on Tiwtter and co. [16:39:16] you can try it here: https://cards-dev.twitter.com/validator [16:39:44] Another cool thing coming soon is the URL shortener. [16:40:17] what is the use case for URL shortening? [16:40:28] It's been discussed a lot in Wikimedia for a long time but it was especially important for Wikidata because the shortlinks to queries on the queryservice use tinyurl which is blacklisted on wiki so you couldn't share those links in discussions. Meh! [16:41:01] I see [16:41:18] Soon we will have our own one that only links to Wikimedia sites and not blocked. [16:42:21] Another thing we did that was requested is to add no-follow indicators to all the external identifier links in Wikidata so they are less attractive for search engine optimisation people who are spamming Wikidata [16:43:46] On the more hard-core technical side we investigated how to continue improving the wb_terms database table. It's one of the pieces that is getting a lot more painful for the developers as Wikidata grows. Since we don't want to tell people to stop adding things to Wikidata we need to spend time on that at the moment. [16:44:47] And last but not least we supported the WMF team working on Structured Data on Commons so they can make Commons better and helped a few large Wikibase installations so they can continue open up more data. [16:45:24] Thanks Lydia! Plenty of things have been done during this first quarter of 2019 and more is to come :) [16:45:41] Now let's go through a few other things that are not directly development-related [16:45:52] First of all, Wikidata has two new admins: Esteban16, Stanglavine, welcome onboard! [16:46:40] During the Wikimedia Summit in Berlin, WMDE and WMF people have been discussing about the strategy behind Wikidata and Wikibase. We mostly wrote down things that we’ve been already doing or discussing with the community over the past years. The result of this will be published soon. The discussions were focused on 3 big areas: Wikidata for the Wikimedia projects, Wikidata as a platform, and the Wikibase [16:46:40] ecosystem. [16:47:17] once the documents are online, we'll be very happy to get your input :) [16:47:45] We asked you for input about issues with adding new language codes in Wikidata: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Identify_problems_with_adding_new_languages_into_Wikidata A wrap-up has been done, with a suggestion for next steps, now some community members should handle it if they want to :) [16:48:16] WikidataCon applications are open!!!1! You can now apply to participate, as well as submit program sessions or apply for a scholarship. Deadline is April 29th, don’t miss it, as it won’t be possible to get a seat after this date! https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Topic:Uwnvvuwlnox50iw8 [16:48:50] And of course you can read more details about the conference on this page and its subpages https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikidataCon_2019 [16:48:55] \o/ [16:49:10] Ever wondered how to optimize your sparql query so it runs faster and doesn’t time out? You can find some tips here https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:SPARQL_query_service/query_optimization#Optimization_strategies [16:49:38] JanAinali has been experimenting with live-streaming Wikidata editing on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/janainali That's awesome, we want moar \o/ [16:49:54] And now here’s one of my favorite sections of the meeting: presenting all the cool new tools developed by the community \o/ [16:50:06] SpeedPatrolling, a tool helps Wikidata editors to patrol recent changes https://tools.wmflabs.org/speedpatrolling/ [16:50:22] Related Properties, providing statistics about the usage of properties in Wikidata items https://tools.dicare.org/properties/ [16:50:52] New dashboard giving the percentage of articles making use of data from Wikidata on all Wikimedia projects https://wdcm.wmflabs.org/WD_percentUsageDashboard/ [16:51:03] A great dashboard showing property statistics for sum of all paintings: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_sum_of_all_paintings/Property_statistics and now also on the Wikiproject Video games! Feel free to adapt it for your own project :) [16:51:17] During the Wikidata hackathon in Ulm, a bunch of cool projects have been developed. See for example the card game generator https://cardgame.morr.cc/ , a multiplayer game “guess the (German) politician” https://gtp.krmax44.de/ [16:51:32] (it's pretty hard, I fail all the time against my colleagues :( ) [16:52:05] Also: a Telegram bot, because it’s a thing now! There is @WikidataMisfitBot, a game sending you pictures where one has a wrong label [16:52:11] But there’s also the Wikidata Search bot, @wkdt_bot, you can basically search Wikidata directly from Telegram [16:52:24] Speaking about Telegram, the Wikidata group is pretty active, more than IRC these days ;) https://t.me/joinchat/AZriqUj5Uag92TB4U9eBdQ [16:52:40] Back to tools: here’s the Wikidata mapping validator https://tools.wmflabs.org/tptools/wd_mapping_validator.php [16:52:49] A tool generating the shape of a country based of the location of its big cities https://cities.k-nut.eu/ [16:52:59] And last but not least, the awesome Wikidata History Query Service, querying through the edit history of Wikidata! https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:History_Query_Service [16:53:17] Now, here is the traditional list of “recommended reading” that you will open in a tab, then forget about, then remember later :D [16:53:31] Lexicographical data on Wikidata: Words, words, words https://blog.wikimedia.de/2019/03/25/lexicographical-data-on-wikidata-words-words-words/ [16:53:38] Inside the Alexa-friendly world of Wikidata https://www.wired.com/story/inside-the-alexa-friendly-world-of-wikidata/ [16:53:44] Combining AI and Human Judgment to Build Knowledge about Art on a Global Scale https://www.metmuseum.org/blogs/now-at-the-met/2019/wikipedia-art-and-ai [16:53:49] Data Quality Management in Wikidata – Workshop write-up https://blog.wikimedia.de/2019/03/07/data-quality-management-in-wikidata-workshop-write-up/ [16:53:55] Wikidata and the sum of all video games https://commonists.wordpress.com/2019/01/01/wikidata-and-the-sum-of-all-video-games-%E2%88%92-2018-edition/ [16:54:02] Making Wikidata visible http://blogs.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/digital/2019/01/23/making-wikidata-visible/ [16:54:08] What Wikidata offers Oxford’s GLAM Digital Strategy http://blogs.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/digital/2019/03/14/what-wikidata-offers-oxfords-glam-digital-strategy/ [16:54:15] Let’s Tango: Computational Musicology Using Wikidata, MusicBrainz and the Wolfram Language https://blog.wolfram.com/2019/02/14/lets-tango-computational-musicology-using-wikidata-musicbrainz-and-the-wolfram-language/ [16:55:11] That's it for now :) [16:55:13] (advertisement break: when you see a cool article or tool, don't forget to add it to the Weekly Summary! It makes sun shine and Léa happy) [16:55:31] And now Lydia_WMDE, what's going to happen next? [16:55:41] All the good stuff! [16:55:54] wow [16:55:59] We'll roll out support for Schemas as I said earlier. [16:56:22] We will also finish up the work on getting the termbox on mobile visible and editable. [16:57:15] We'll roll out a new level for the constraints so that you can indicate a constraint is only a suggestion instead of a big violation. This is for example useful if you want to say "if an item has a date of birth then it should probably also have a place of birth". [16:58:19] We will write the first code to get us to editing Wikidata's data directly from Wikipedia. This has been requested many many times and is a major hurdle still for using more of Wikidata's data in Wikipedia and co. [16:59:23] We will also look into planning and design for signed statements. This is another thing that'll help us keep data quality high by making it harder to change a statement while still keeping the old reference. [16:59:51] And last but not least we will overhaul the website for Wikibase so people can actually understand what it is and why they'd want to use it. [17:00:24] Such good stuff \o/ [17:00:40] Now, we still have 30 minutes for questions and discussions [17:00:57] So, feel free to ask anything you want :) [17:01:08] when I look at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q388995#sitelinks-wikipedia I can see there are two values for population [17:01:24] how can I fetch the date for those properties? [17:01:36] I mean the literals 2015 and 2018 [17:01:55] Those are the qualifiers. [17:01:59] Do you want to use them in Lua? [17:02:01] Or? [17:02:09] on Wi [17:02:14] on WQikipedia [17:02:24] through Lua or templates [17:02:26] parser functions [17:02:50] Unfortunately the parser function doesn't give you access to that. [17:02:59] we are currently displaying the up-to-date populations of cities but not the years associated with them [17:03:09] It only returns the value with the "best" rank. In this case the first. [17:03:30] So it is only possible in Lua. [17:03:32] https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabzon shows the population but not the year :( [17:03:54] Auregann_WMDE is trying to find some documentation [17:04:27] superyetkin: https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabzon the infobox is not using Wikidata in this article :/ [17:05:09] Lydia, we are using it :) [17:05:33] look at the value in the "n�fus_toplam" parameter and you will see [17:06:38] |n�fus_toplam = 779.379 and the actual Wikidata value is 807,903, which is correct [17:07:01] we are trying to fetch as much data as we can from Wikidatas [17:07:11] "We will also look into planning and design for signed statements." That's great! [17:07:23] superyetkin: you can have a look here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Wikibase_Client/Lua#mw.wikibase.getBestStatements to get all the content of statements, including qualifiers [17:07:38] Tpt[m]: \o/ If you have input for it I'd love to hear it in an email or call. [17:08:21] I'm also very interested in signed statements, and I know some GLAMs who would like to try them if that's helpful [17:08:32] Spinster: absolutely! [17:08:55] Spinster: send me all the things :) [17:09:06] what's the eta for constraints in the query service? [17:09:26] thanks Lydia, do you know a Lua module using that client library? [17:09:32] So in the upcoming quarter you are going to work on planning/design for signed statements, with the intention to start implementing later in the year if that works out? [17:09:37] superyetkin: I'm looking at the code of the infobox but i see that the number is written locally, is there something I'm missing here? [17:09:45] creating one from scratch would be really hard at the moment :) [17:09:54] sjoerddebruin: very good question. My last status update was that it's blocked on a service we need which needs some coordination with the WMF and an RFC. Let me get the link for that. [17:10:23] Auregann: |n�fus_toplam = 779.379 and the actual Wikidata value is 807,903, which is correct [17:10:52] the value in the infobox parameter is outdated [17:11:02] sjoerddebruin: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T214362 needs to get unstuck. I'll poke about it again. [17:11:05] Spinster: yes [17:11:08] superyetkin: so you're editing the value by hand, not displaying it automatically from Wikidata? [17:11:16] Lydia_WMDE: great [17:11:25] no, we are fetching it from Wikidata [17:11:31] superyetkin: here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole_Telescope you can see that the "construction" values come from qualifiers on https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1513315 [17:12:07] superyetkin: and here's the template itself https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_telescope [17:12:32] superyetkin: how? with a bot? [17:12:51] hmm.. {{#invoke:WikidataIB |getQualifierValue |P79 will help, I think [17:12:53] thanks for that [17:13:02] Lydia_WMDE: I have not really an opinion except that it should be easy for third party code to compute the signature. [17:13:30] Tpt[m]: *nod* [17:13:43] so, it should not rely on PHP specific thing unlike some hashes used in the datamodel [17:14:08] Lydia_WMDE: I'm interested in signed statements as well and am working with some libraries that would be interested in them. Is there any documentation about that project already? [17:14:33] chicagohil: so far not really. If you want i'm happy to have a chat with you. [17:15:05] that would be great. Thank you [17:15:29] superyetkin: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:HakanIST might be a good person to reach out to for some help [17:15:55] chicagohil: cool. i'll send you a link to my calendar in a private chat. [17:16:03] actually, I'm not too sure about signed statements, if I can bring in a different note ^ [17:16:11] (yay I can finally speak!) [17:16:14] yes, I know Hakan�ST, lydia [17:16:47] pintoch: heh I want to hear that too obviously [17:16:54] yay pintoch \o/ [17:17:00] I don't know, is public key cryptography really the right solution for the problem of discarding references when statement values change? [17:17:06] thanks Auregann_WMDE! :) [17:17:25] pintoch: *nod* let's also find time for a longer chat about it? [17:17:47] I'm currently in the phase of gathering all the input so some longer chats really help me [17:17:51] sure! for me this is more of an UI issue really (but given the enthusiasm above I might well be wrong!) [17:17:57] hehe [17:18:42] superyetkin: great! If that works for you I recommend talking to him. [17:18:54] I think it's really good to go to the 'why' of signed statements. I know that GLAMs want a way to indicate that certain statements are truly backed by them. By which technical means we support that, is another issue [17:19:03] we are already talking, Lydia :) [17:19:26] btw superyetkin if you want to start a Wikidata-powered infobox from scratch, feel free to look at DataBox https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Module:Databox [17:19:29] Turkish Wikipedia user group is not very large due to the Wikipedia ban in Turkey :( [17:19:42] that affects Wikidata as well [17:19:50] :( [17:20:03] (for people like me who just heard of "signed statements" where can I find some more basic explanation of what it is and how it works?) [17:20:50] Auregann_WMDE: thanks for the link, I will examine it [17:20:58] Vigneron: Here :) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Development_plan#Signed_statements [17:22:36] Auregann_WMDE: thanks ! [17:23:44] A few minutes left, do you have any other questions? :) [17:25:18] btw if someone has knowledge in Lua, could you look at the issue raised by katpatuka on the #wikidata channel? I quote: "what may be the cause of "Lua错误：not enough memory。" errors on zh.wiki ? I get it for example on zh:新立街道 (七台河市) . Removing template {{PRC admin/navcat|23/09... removes the error" [17:26:16] Alright, then I have a question :D What are the cool things you're working on these days? [17:26:47] A Wikimedian-in-Residence project for documenting Dutch university teachers. :) [17:26:59] Nice! [17:27:01] One of the first Wikidata-specific ones afaik [17:27:02] I can +1000 that that is very cool [17:27:30] Fancy! [17:27:30] The WikidataCon :P [17:27:39] Excellent choice ;) [17:28:10] are there any plans to organize WikidataCon online? [17:28:24] I’m working on some improvements to SpeedPatrolling – work around that annoying “page sometimes blank” issue, suggest thanking users you’ve frequently patrolled, suggest requesting blocks for users you’ve frequently rolled back [17:28:33] considering the carbon footprint of the Wikidata project... [17:28:47] I can remember reading something about this on Meta [17:29:03] and other wiki-conferences (there is a lot comming: WikiEdu, Hackathon, Celtic Knot, Wikimania, and so on let's spread the Wikidata gospel there too \o/ ) [17:29:19] Lucas_WMDE: post a link! :D [17:29:38] The first WikidataCon had truly excellent video recording/streaming, are you thinking about doing that again? [17:29:40] superyetkin: just like in 2017, we'll make sure that the main tracks will be live-streamed and available in video after the conference [17:29:50] Working on how we can use Wikidata in a knowledge panel in our library catalog [17:29:55] for discussions and spontaneous networking, it's slightly more complicated [17:30:01] superyetkin: great question! at the very least there should be some recording online, maybe in realtime but we should think on how to do more active online participation [17:30:07] chicagohil: yay [17:30:28] Vigneron: I am looking forward to it [17:30:38] chicagohil: very nice! [17:30:44] Lydia_WMDE: well the link to the tool was already posted earlier, https://tools.wmflabs.org/speedpatrolling/ [17:30:53] just working on improvements [17:30:58] :) [17:30:58] (private time yadda yadda) [17:30:58] also, we plan to keep alterning between one big conference in Berlin, and plenty of decentralized events like in 2018 [17:31:21] chicagohil: I'd like very much to see the result of that, is there already something we can see? [17:31:23] On subject of video streaming, if you have live streaming for a tech related conference, please link in sitenotice - I really want to promote remote participation options in conferences to new people/people not yet in our communities [17:31:34] also, what about plans for green servers for Wikimedia projects? [17:31:42] will that include Wikidata as well? [17:31:45] so, in 2020 you'll have the opportunity to organize your own meetup and reach local community - and spend less ozone-killing energy :) [17:32:21] bawolff: I completely agree with this [17:32:27] bawolff: good idea [17:32:30] Vigneron: not yet, but we'll have a development cycle starting in a few weeks, so I should have something to share by the beginning of May [17:32:40] superyetkin: do you know https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sustainability_Initiative ? [17:32:41] it looks like our eqiad datacenter should actually use renewable energy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinix#Sustainability [17:32:45] I did it with the recent EMWCon, and i think it attracted more viewers [17:32:56] though not all our datacenters are with Equinix [17:33:05] but I’d assume eqiad is the most energy intensive one [17:33:22] Vigneron: yes, I remember that [17:34:05] good to hear that, Lydia [17:35:40] Alright people, let's close the official meeting for now- of course you can keep discussing after that ;) [17:35:50] Thanks a lot for your constructive questions and feedback [17:36:07] You can stay in touch with us anytime onwiki or various channels [17:36:20] thanks [17:36:29] See you soon! [17:36:38] #endmeeting [17:36:39] Meeting ended Tue Apr 9 17:36:38 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) [17:36:39] Minutes: https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2019/wikimedia-office.2019-04-09-16.30.html [17:36:39] Minutes (text): https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2019/wikimedia-office.2019-04-09-16.30.txt [17:36:39] Minutes (wiki): https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2019/wikimedia-office.2019-04-09-16.30.wiki [17:36:39] Log: https://tools.wmflabs.org/meetbot/wikimedia-office/2019/wikimedia-office.2019-04-09-16.30.log.html [17:36:58] Thanks everyone :) [17:37:08] o/ [17:45:12] bawolff: Nice. Do you have any details on the setup the EMWCon used for video? Nice use of live video and presentation sldies [17:45:30] I think they used a company called next day video [17:45:39] CindyCicaleseWMF would know more [17:46:13] Ah, they hired out? Looks pro [17:55:02] I think the person they hired may have been associated with the conference though, so not sure how much it was "hired out" [17:55:07] But i agree they did a good job [17:55:43] which reminds me i need to review the video of my thing so it gets released on youtube [18:43:27] Yes, Carl Karsten of Next Day Video. This is the second year he has been the videographer for EMWCon. He has some very nice hardware and software support.