[17:23:24] A little sad that the last monthly activities meeting starts 37 minutes from now. [17:45:41] Hey everyone, I'll be IRC facilitator for the (last ever) Wikimedia Activities meeting today. [17:56:02] lol - I have been saying last for now - as in our world - you never know :p [17:58:15] I realize that's it's probably just observer bias, but I really do seem to always come in at the end of things [18:01:44] Starting just about now. [18:01:51] Hi James_F [18:01:54] As ever, if you have A/V issues please shout out so we can get them fixed. [18:02:23] And if you have questions, responses, or comments, please say them here so I can ask them for you, get them answered, and others' views can be shared too. [18:04:22] Hi James_F how is WMF going to deal with people complaining Wikimedia Space is run by WMF and not so much community run? How will Wikimedia Space become more community inclusive? [18:05:06] Dedalus_: I can ask. But it's certainly less staff-run than this meeting. :-) [18:06:48] Dedalus_: good question. (I'm not responsible for Space, and was thinking of asking the team about it after some time when they feel they understand the project and its dynamics better) [18:07:31] James_F: I want stickers from those GIFs. How do I make this happen? [18:07:59] Elitre: I'll ask Comms. :-) [18:08:03] harry potter style animated stickers please [18:08:18] James_F: I knew I could rely on you. [18:08:20] Some eInk with a microcell could do it, but B&W only. [18:08:31] I have stickers of the cat and dragon on my laptop, but alas, they do not move! [18:08:42] I'll be kind and accept non-moving stickers. [18:08:59] Ask for the stars! [18:09:08] Elitre: Zack in Comms has some sticker sheets with those icons on them :) [18:09:23] Were there stars among the GIFs? Then I def want those too [18:09:48] Elitre: stickers exist! they were at Wikimania [18:09:58] oh Greg literally just said that [18:10:03] (Zack always has the cool stuff. Usually I have to pay for it though. Also, I wasn't at Wikimania, sadly.) [18:10:13] * tzatziki quietly shuffles away [18:10:17] Elitre: and you were missed! [18:11:00] awww Guillom. I'll choose to believe you. [18:11:19] As you should! [18:11:23] It's true! [18:12:04] {{cite humans|All staff and volunteers that know Elitre}} [18:13:25] I would have loved to hear from the Working Groups at Wikimania. Catching up on recommendations these days... [18:13:49] There's so much activity to read, yes. [18:13:52] A lot of things were recorded - but I am not personally sure of which specific sessions and status of getting them online [18:14:17] Looks like a batch went up on the WMF YouTube channel today [18:14:43] Perfect timing...I mean...yes...of course...that timing was totally intentional. ;p [18:14:52] * James_F grins. [18:15:09] The wikimania2019wiki pages should be updated (eventually) as recordings and notes become available [18:15:34] Yes. (It's just WikimaniaWiki now.) [18:15:43] It's a big undertaking - huge kudos to local team working on that and staff supporting [18:16:10] AntiComposite: yes, today i uploaded the footage that Sveriges Utbildningsradio filmed and shared with us. it overlaps with some of the sessions we streamed [18:16:15] +1 [18:16:36] Out of curiosity - does anyone happen to know what % of sessions were recorded? [18:16:54] brendan_campbell might know. [18:17:04] everything we recorded and streamed should be on Commons and YouTube now. [18:17:05] Elitre: if you can figure out a good way to read the recommendation pages, let me know. I have set a target of one working group per day starting a day ago and I have failed. :/ [18:17:33] https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Program#Remote_attendance should have all the links [18:18:16] 152 videos in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2019_videos [18:18:22] wow - so all sessions except those marked as requested not to be filmed are all already up? [18:19:10] leila: binge them from https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations#Abbreviated_summaries_of_draft_recommendations , going with the things that most capture your attention? [18:19:10] varnent: they should be. the knowledge savers group did a great job [18:19:15] Amazing! Great job! [18:19:17] woow! [18:19:50] Yeah, amazing work. [18:20:02] Leila: have you see the nutshells? [18:20:06] Possibly the most recorded/remote-friendly Wikimania ever? [18:20:46] Like, comment, subscribe? ;p [18:21:02] Hit that notification button! [18:21:19] Mash those buttons, etc. [18:21:27] Dedalus_: yup. my challenge with nutshells is that they don't have enough information for me to be able to say if they look good to me or not (the devil is in the details situation). so I started from the summaries and then realized for actually understanding the recommendations I have to read each recommendation page. [18:21:41] Probably, I think DC had a bunch recorded, but not 100% [18:21:50] Yes, DC was also very good. [18:22:14] The tech was different then, it took months to get everything online if I remember right [18:22:18] (I speak as someone who's never tried to follow Wikimania remotely, of course; I think others who actually have might have a more authentic view.) [18:22:22] * varnent dusts off cobwebs in memory lane [18:22:40] Elitre: binge reading it is then. I doubt I can do a pass over all of them, but I will continue to try. [18:22:42] Especially R&R can be hard to read leila if you don't know they are thinking about restricting the role of WMF to keep the servers running, own the trademarks, do some legal protection. [18:23:19] Dedalus_: 'took a note. I haven't got that far, yet. (I figured it may be over my head ; ) [18:24:31] leila at Wikimania print outs where handed out. some of them had visuals, for example capacity buildiing. That visual explained their train of thought very well. [18:26:07] Dedalus_: good to know. I'll ask around to find them. (I started from capacity building, my mistake, and that one is well developed in some recommendation areas which makes it harder to find immediate areas of improvement ; ) [18:26:57] leila it is okay to comment on meta you like the capacity building recommendations ... [18:27:24] Dedalus_: yeah. I'll start doing that, at least for some of the recommendations under that set. [18:30:13] the teenagers survey just had ten respondents?? [18:30:41] rule #1 of research: getting respondents is *hard* [18:30:47] especially when it's interviews [18:31:26] question: what is the age group of "teenagers"? (sorry, this was probably mentioned.) [18:32:17] Will ask. [18:32:41] age 15 to 18. [18:32:58] THanks, whatami. [18:33:19] currently 70 people viewing the livestream ... [18:34:22] whatami: thanks! [18:34:29] isaacj: ^ [18:36:07] Fwiw, the "seal of approval" thing has been suggested (and attempted) in the past by non-Wikimedia sites [18:36:16] And by us, sort-of. [18:36:53] leila: yep, good to see these questions being asked to teenagers! hard to scale up but every little nugget is useful [18:37:02] not sure ML is being used for the language stuff [18:46:05] Wikimedia Spaces' blog RSS feed is https://space.wmflabs.org/blog/feed/ [18:46:35] Curious: the Space blog is WordPress and the Space discuss is Discourse, right? [18:46:44] Yes. [18:46:48] Thanks :) [18:49:02] Some might want to see the discuss part moved to a 'page' on en.wikipedia.org [18:49:32] Dedalus_: And no doubt others would propose the Urdu Wikiversity. [18:49:53] I <3 the calendar. [18:50:05] James_F for decentralized discussions, each community in their own language [18:50:32] for a centralized discussion, you might want to move to a multilingual wiki [18:50:42] You can always trust in some people to want to divide the world into a smallest possible 'us' and a largest possible 'them', yes. [18:51:53] It's nice to see us experimenting with tools for consolidating communication channels. That events calendar is a great example (speaking as someone who has painstakingly maintained many wiki-based calendars) :) What kind of indicators are we looking at to evaluate this experiment? [18:52:11] guillom: Will ask. [18:52:26] James_F: Thanks! (please include the praise too :) [18:52:30] that is not the point James_F each community might want to have their own space for discussion [18:53:08] Dedalus_: You mean, their own private part of Space? [18:53:46] "conflux" is a good word of the day [18:53:49] not private, public, and then on their wiki, not off their wiki. [18:54:30] Right. [18:54:51] Dedalus, don't they already have a public place on their wiki to talk about their community? [18:55:35] whatami, yes, with longform mediawiki wikitext editing, without any of the discourse functionalities [18:55:59] That . . . sounds like a reason to improve MediaWiki discussions. [18:56:20] (Btw, James_F's laptop just died.) [18:56:22] applause [18:56:28] RIP. [18:56:33] * leila claps [18:56:54] Laptop not willing to go on in a world without activities meetings. [18:56:59] :D [18:57:01] Please put https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk_pages_project on your watchlist, if you're interested in making on-wiki communication easier. [18:58:01] James_F: If there is no time for questions, no worries, I can ask Elena directly [18:58:22] My laptop is back, ish. But not charging. Yay battery technology. [18:58:41] It's alive! [18:59:01] whatami I am fully aware of that project, that was not my question. I follow up on a question by Gereon to move space to wiki [18:59:14] Apparently it think it'll take 20 hours to recharge on this low-wattage charger. brendan_campbell clearly doesn't love me. ;-) [19:03:02] Dedalus_, one of the problems we're hoping to solve, is that they *do* want their own space where it's *easy* to have discussions, which is partially why there are so many *($# facebook groups. See https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T226726 and the workboard of the whole project for more feature-requests and plans. [19:03:19] Thanks, quiddity. [19:04:01] Dedalus_, I think that Gereon's comment might have been based on the belief that it was at wordpress.com ("Even if WordPress is open source it's another 3d party place") instead of at WMF Labs. [19:04:14] Yeah - I think the reality is that we have been trying for 15 years to force everything to happen on one channel - and from wikimedia-l to FB Groups today - we see evidence over and over that people want more and one channel to serve them all is not a universal solution. [19:04:23] quiddity I'm on space everyday, and I would like to see people coming from other social media platforms to come to space for their wikimedia discussions. [19:04:34] Nothing prevents us from having closer integration between wikis and (subsets of) Discouse later on if that makes sense. [19:04:53] Right. [19:04:53] there is a specific challenge that some editors do not want to go to off their home wiki for anything [19:05:05] I like that we're trying things out without trying to boil the ocean. [19:05:44] Dedalus_: Except uploading media to Commons. ;-) [19:05:59] James_F granted ... [19:06:02] Yes, [[m:Not my wiki]] is a thing, but people not feeling comfortable discussing on-wiki is also a thing. [19:06:06] varnent: much WikiLove for you and your help with Metrics!!! [19:06:11] (Newbies who joined since we founded Commons in 2005 don't see it as other as much.) [19:06:20] We need spaces (hah) for both types. [19:06:43] Elitre: Thanks! It has been fun - but excited to see what we can experiment on next :) [19:07:00] RSVP, Metrics [19:07:13] And, now, it is over ... [19:15:28] marktraceur: 3>