[03:43:24] Project browsertests-en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-windows-internet_explorer_10 build #301: FAILURE in 18 min: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/browsertests-en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-windows-internet_explorer_10/301/ [04:25:41] Project browsertests-en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-windows-internet_explorer_9 build #397: FAILURE in 19 min: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/browsertests-en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-windows-internet_explorer_9/397/ [05:15:25] Yippee, build fixed! [05:15:25] Project browsertests-test2.wikipedia.org-windows-internet_explorer_6 build #550: FIXED in 31 min: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/browsertests-test2.wikipedia.org-windows-internet_explorer_6/550/ [05:50:42] hi [05:51:26] hello [06:51:52] Project UniversalLanguageSelector-sandbox.translatewiki.net-linux-firefox build #61: FAILURE in 3 min 7 sec: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/UniversalLanguageSelector-sandbox.translatewiki.net-linux-firefox/61/ [07:32:02] Project VisualEditor-en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-linux-firefox build #160: FAILURE in 40 min: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/VisualEditor-en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-linux-firefox/160/ [09:05:20] zeljkof: wait_while_present gives deprecation warning :/ [09:19:31] Nikerabbit: commit in gerrit or it did not happen :) [09:20:12] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/96716/ [09:23:27] will take a look soon(™) [09:23:32] just have to finish something [09:38:13] Nikerabbit: ok, will take a look now [09:38:21] how is it in India? [09:40:02] zeljkof: I'm actually not in India [09:40:04] been sick [09:40:29] ouch [09:40:37] better now? or still sick? [09:45:53] zeljkof: mostly okay now [09:50:52] Nikerabbit: I am glad to hear that [09:51:07] I hope it was just the good old flu or a friend [09:51:14] I am looking at the commit [09:51:14] yeah [09:54:33] wait, the commit is already merged? [09:55:13] Kartik is the fastest gun west of Mississippi :) [10:05:07] Nikerabbit: in short, there are two APIs for waiting [10:05:10] selenium one: http://watirwebdriver.com/waiting/ [10:05:21] and page-object one: https://github.com/cheezy/page-object/wiki/Ajax-Calls [10:05:55] I did not investigate a lot, but probably page-object one is slightly different that selenium one, and page-object will complain if you use the other API [10:06:08] it will probably work just fine, but it _will_ complain [10:09:16] zeljkof: it works fine [10:24:18] Nikerabbit: fixed deprecation warning [10:24:20] will push to gerrit [10:26:45] and here it is https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/96733 [11:16:36] zeljkof: you included ! in a password ;) I had to quote it [11:16:53] Nikerabbit: all passwords are auto generated :) [11:16:58] I have noticed the same today [11:17:03] should I change the password? [11:17:12] zeljkof: it's okay [11:17:14] single quoting it fixes the problem [11:17:22] and looks like jenkins does not fail [11:21:54] zeljkof: aww crap did I move it to pages? [11:22:07] Nikerabbit: yes you did :) [11:22:12] I'll fix [11:22:28] zeljkof: and the wait is there because it makes sense logically to me ;) [11:22:45] the actual failure can be multiple steps later and then it is too late to fail [11:23:12] Nikerabbit: yes, when I was looking at the code, it made sense to me [11:23:28] if you need to wait for something to happen _after_ an action, then you have to wait [11:24:01] it was just strange, since the vast majority of the waiting happens _before_ an action [11:25:12] zeljkof: it basically waits for ULS to finish saving settings before doing anything else, like navigating to a different page [11:25:22] Nikerabbit: yes [11:25:32] I have noticed that the test fails if it does not wait [11:25:42] if it navigates away too quickly [11:25:49] looks like the setting does not get saved [11:26:11] yep [11:26:46] Nikerabbit: you did a good job, I am proud of how fast both you and Amir have improved your Selenium skills [11:27:14] zeljkof: after a wrong start ;) [11:27:50] you did pretty good with the amount of training you had back then :) [11:28:05] at the last QA/release eng. quarterly review we talked about Chris and me working more with mobile team [11:28:37] looks like they would like to improve their skills, the word about how easy it is spreads [11:28:53] and Michelle is leaving the team these days, so they do need help [11:36:29] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96744 [11:41:14] Nikerabbit: +2d [12:33:11] zeljko: test [12:54:47] Project test build #1: FAILURE in 24 sec: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/test/1/ [12:58:01] (PS1) Zfilipin: IRC notification is enabled only for #wikimedia-qa channel [selenium] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96752 [13:53:42] (PS1) Hashar: always trigger npmtest jobs [integration/zuul-config] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96762 [13:54:26] (CR) Anomie: [C: 1] always trigger npmtest jobs [integration/zuul-config] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96762 (owner: Hashar) [13:54:54] (CR) Hashar: [C: 2] always trigger npmtest jobs [integration/zuul-config] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96762 (owner: Hashar) [13:55:03] (Merged) jenkins-bot: always trigger npmtest jobs [integration/zuul-config] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96762 (owner: Hashar) [14:37:42] (CR) Cmcmahon: [C: 2] "notification to useful channel" [selenium] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96752 (owner: Zfilipin) [15:08:16] hi anjana, are you here for the pairing session with Trinitha? [15:08:35] Yes Zeljko [15:08:59] well, she did not appear here yet :) [15:09:22] hmmm... [15:09:51] do you have an agenga for todays session? [15:10:25] welcome anjana it's nice to see you on IRC [15:10:39] Hi Chris. [15:10:48] the plan is to ask Trinitha what she did so far, and if she (I assume that is a female name) has any questions [15:11:04] Yippee, build fixed! [15:11:05] Project VisualEditor-en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-linux-firefox build #161: FIXED in 45 min: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/VisualEditor-en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-linux-firefox/161/ [15:11:21] wmf-selenium-bot: good job :) [15:11:21] zeljkof you may not issue bot commands in this chat! [15:11:24] thanks wmf-selenium-bot! [15:11:35] Yes. Trinita is a females name. [15:11:46] the VE builds got server errors on beta overnight [15:12:16] Trinitha's IRC nick is sanvi [15:12:32] but I do not see her on freenode anywhere [15:12:33] oh i see. hope she logs in soon. [15:12:53] I will wait a few more minutes, but then I will give up [15:13:00] I think 15 minutes is enough waiting [15:13:05] Makes sense. [15:13:51] anjana: while we are waiting, do you have any questions? [15:13:57] do you need help with anything? [15:14:28] eh, and the Chrome build got an edit conflict, that was my fault [15:14:57] chrismcmahon: I did not understand you [15:16:29] Zelkjo, I was looking at you bugzilla list and I see an "easy" list there . I am trying to figure out if any item on the list makes sense to me and if it does I can try to fix it. [15:16:39] zeljkof: when I start two builds of the VE tests at the same time, sometimes a test fails because both builds are trying to edit the user page for Selenium_user and one gets an edit conflict trying to save [15:17:23] chrismcmahon: we should make the tests more robust [15:17:30] if we plan to run them in parallel [15:17:40] zeljkof: yes, I'll be doing that probably today [15:18:01] ok, I officially give up on pairing with Trinitha, she is more that 15 minutes late [15:20:53] anjana: the thing that we struggle the most at the moment is good "getting started" pages for new people that would like to contribute to testing [15:21:46] but these bugs could also be a good starting poing [15:21:48] point [15:21:49] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51808 [15:21:50] Yup! I agree. I will see if it needs some editions. [15:21:56] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55824 [15:22:11] if you have any questions, feel free to ask here, at QA list or at the bug [15:22:17] I was just looking at your list out of curiosity :). [15:22:27] Yup! Have been doing that lately. [15:22:39] anjana: feel free :) it is open so people know what we plan to do in the near future [15:22:39] Thanks Zelljko. [15:23:08] anjana: since I have some free time now I will get something to eat before the next meeting [15:23:15] Trinita says shes in the freenode chatroom and is asking for your id. Looks like she needs help [15:23:33] Ok... bye [15:23:47] anjana: ok, if she is here, but lost then I will not go [15:24:01] that's funny, trinitha just sent mail and thinks she is on IRC [15:24:08] brb... [15:24:12] ok. get a bite before you get busy again :) [15:24:19] chrismcmahon: I just saw the email [15:24:32] anjana: I will try to find her here [15:26:16] hi sanvi [15:26:22] hi [15:26:41] how are you? zljkof [15:26:44] I have almost given up :) [15:26:52] sorry for delay [15:27:08] no problem, did you have problems connecting to IRC? [15:27:32] no, i had to take care of the child and give it to parents.. [15:27:38] ok [15:27:40] i connected to here [15:27:43] let's start [15:27:46] okay [15:27:57] before we start, do you have any questions, or should I lead? [15:28:12] not right now [15:28:16] anjana, chrismcmahonbrb (and others) feel free to participate too [15:29:20] ok sanvi, let me introduce myself :) [15:29:40] k [15:29:54] my name is Željko Filipin, I live in Zagreb (Croatia, Europe) and I work as a software tester for Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) [15:30:24] work online or onsite [15:31:08] I work from home, WMF office is in San Francisco, California, USA [15:31:13] I am a software tester for the last 10 or so years, mostly doing exploratory testing and browser automation with tools like Selenium [15:31:29] can you tell a sentence or two about yourself? [15:31:29] that's great [15:31:39] but keep in mind this is a public chat [15:31:52] so do not share anything you want to keep private [15:33:19] My name is Trinitha, I was born in india and living in USA, trying to get my first job as a QA. I am joining wikimedia for hands on experince [15:33:41] i went on utest did some exploratory testing and [15:33:45] reported bugs [15:34:33] i have a question actually [15:34:37] go ahead [15:35:35] what is actually exploratory testing? because all i did on utest test the website links, etc. functionality and did bug report...i found it easy [15:35:45] i thought to myself thr should be more to it lol [15:36:23] "Exploratory testing is an approach to software testing that is concisely described as simultaneous learning, test design and test execution." [15:36:28] from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploratory_testing [15:36:56] it is easy to get started, but like chess, it can take you a lifetime to become good at it [15:37:35] ya [15:37:46] as far as I am concerned, we use term exploratory testing for a type of testing that does not involve programming skills [15:38:09] okay, while testing wikimedia we will just report bugs [15:38:11] or more to it? [15:38:29] so, when you click links, fill forms… and inspect the results yourself, that is exploratory testing [15:38:39] k [15:38:42] ok, so let's go a step back [15:38:52] there are a few terms here that you should understand [15:39:01] k [15:39:18] wikimedia, is a movement [15:39:18] http://www.wikimedia.org/ [15:39:28] Wikimedia is a global movement whose mission is to bring free educational content to the world. [15:39:42] wikimedia foundation is a non profit [15:40:05] The Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. is a nonprofit charitable organization dedicated to encouraging the growth, development and distribution of free, multilingual, educational content, and to providing the full content of these wiki-based projects to the public free of charge. The Wikimedia Foundation operates some of the largest collaboratively edited reference projects in the world, including Wikipedia, a top-ten internet property. [15:40:09] http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Home [15:40:25] so, we have covered wikimedia and wikimedia foundation [15:40:35] now let's cover the tech part [15:40:48] what we do is test mediawiki [15:40:57] it is a wiki [15:41:11] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki [15:41:26] a type of web application that allows users to edit content of the site [15:41:52] mediawiki is one of available wiki web applications [15:41:56] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki [15:41:59] media wiki is a tester site for wikimedia? [15:42:09] no [15:42:28] mediawiki.org is a site that documents mediawiki software (web application) [15:42:56] you are free to edit the documentation [15:43:13] mediawiki is where everyone testing? [15:43:14] especially the docs related to testing and/or QA [15:43:17] sanvi: you can read about our test environments at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Quality_Assurance#Test_environments [15:43:29] chrismcmahon: I was just about to talk about that :) [15:43:44] sanvi: no, we do not test at mediawiki.org [15:43:52] hmm k [15:44:05] we have several other sites where we test the functionality of mediawiki [15:44:09] and I just found a typo :-) [15:44:17] one of the sites is called test2 [15:44:19] hi chris [15:44:20] i will [15:44:25] k [15:44:32] https://test2.wikipedia.org [15:44:48] test2 is a test wiki, it has no real content, it is just used for testing [15:44:57] you can do anything you want to the content there [15:45:27] test2 is updated every week or two, chrismcmahon will know [15:45:44] you should create an account there, if you already do not have one [15:45:58] if you have a wikipedia account, you can log in with it at test2 [15:46:24] okay [15:46:25] i will [15:46:39] test2, mediawiki.org and all wikipedias (english, german…) share the same login database [15:46:42] it helps to understand the deployment schedule: https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Deployment [15:47:13] so if you have an account at any of those accounts, you can log in at any of mentioned sites [15:47:28] another test site that we use is this oen [15:47:30] this one [15:47:45] http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/ [15:48:21] all this sites listed somewhere [15:48:26] yes [15:48:27] here [15:48:36] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Quality_Assurance#Test_environments [15:48:41] and as you can see [15:48:53] we use mediawiki.org to document stuff [15:49:03] okay [15:49:07] got it [15:49:29] en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org is a site on a different cluster, it is not connected to test2/mediawiki/wikipedia [15:49:39] so you have to create a separate user for it [15:49:47] and that site is updated several times a day, [15:49:48] oh k [15:49:56] so all new code is there [15:50:02] k [15:50:09] test2 is more stable, but en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org has the latest code [15:50:11] so, which should be tested [15:50:16] test2 or beta [15:50:25] both? [15:50:29] yes, both [15:50:32] k [15:50:44] and we report bugs on the email list [15:50:47] test2 is actually a production site [15:50:47] or bugzila [15:50:51] like english wikipedia [15:50:55] k [15:51:00] yes [15:51:13] so, when you find a bug, you can report it to QA mailing list [15:51:24] k [15:51:27] or even better, you should create a bug in Bugzilla [15:51:41] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ [15:51:58] you will have to create a separate account for Bugzilla [15:52:00] ya i created account thr with hurry with my actual ID can i delete and create new one? [15:52:08] ya i know [15:52:23] anyways i will figure it out. [15:52:24] continue [15:52:30] sanvi: I did not understand, what is wrong with your existing bugzilla account? [15:52:57] nothing it says that i should make sepreate account [15:53:05] as the email be public [15:53:12] i have created with my main email id [15:53:15] in hurry [15:53:25] I have my public e-mail there too :) [15:53:33] k [15:53:57] you can change your e-mail here [15:53:57] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=account [15:54:12] thank u [15:54:54] if you have any questions about bugzilla and it's usage and public e-mail, ask at the QA list, Andre will know the answer [15:55:14] or ping andre__ in #mediawiki channel [15:55:24] we have 5 more minutes [15:55:29] sanvi: one way to think of it: you are more likely to find a bug in the beta labs test environment, that's where we find and fix most problems. but if you find a bug in the test2 wiki, that is more important, because that is code that is on the way to production. [15:55:34] I have another meeting then [15:55:57] sanvi: do you have any closing questions? [15:56:37] hmm [15:56:47] i mean i just do explortary testing [15:56:49] on both [15:56:51] and report it [15:56:56] or anythingelse [15:57:05] what is my FIRST step [15:57:06] of testing [15:57:51] well, the first step would be picking an area to test [15:58:16] visual editor is an important project, I would recommend testing it [15:58:30] how do i get that site [15:58:33] what is the link [15:58:33] I really have to go in a minute, so I will keep it short [15:58:40] or it is software i havet o download [15:58:43] this is visual editor (VE) home page [15:58:43] sanvi: read the top of the page here, follow the links: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Quality_Assurance [15:58:44] okay [15:58:55] sanvi: read a LOT :-) [15:59:01] sanvi: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor [15:59:04] okay [15:59:18] and visual editor is already enabled at test2 and beta [15:59:29] well, chris and zeljkof thank you. [15:59:30] go to bugzilla, find VE bugs and try to reproduce them [15:59:34] I have to go now [15:59:36] okay [15:59:39] ya thanks again [15:59:52] if you have any questions, ask here, but I will be able to reply in an hour or so [15:59:57] or ask at the mailing list [16:00:17] okay [17:01:35] (PS1) Anomie: Make jshint voting for Collection OCG repos [integration/zuul-config] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96789 [17:09:24] (CR) Chad: [C: 2] Make jshint voting for Collection OCG repos [integration/zuul-config] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96789 (owner: Anomie) [17:09:30] (Merged) jenkins-bot: Make jshint voting for Collection OCG repos [integration/zuul-config] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96789 (owner: Anomie) [18:55:31] JeffHall: good point about BROWSER_LABEL not being defined. that will never happen in the Jenkins build but could be annoying locally [18:56:11] chrismcmahon: Yeah, so I went ahead and entered a Bugzilla ticket - as you said, it's a good "to do" item, but not a blocker of any kind [18:57:35] * chrismcmahon is all about the Jenkins builds [19:28:20] Yippee, build fixed! [19:28:21] Project browsertests-en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-windows-internet_explorer_9 build #398: FIXED in 20 min: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/browsertests-en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-windows-internet_explorer_9/398/ [19:53:09] Project browsertests-test2.wikipedia.org-windows-internet_explorer_10 build #294: FAILURE in 24 min: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/browsertests-test2.wikipedia.org-windows-internet_explorer_10/294/ [20:09:51] (PS2) Hashar: Remove Scribunto from smw-core unit test suite [integration/jenkins-job-builder-config] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96032 (owner: Mwjames) [20:14:23] (CR) Hashar: [C: 2] "job mwext-SemanticMediaWiki-testextensions-master refreshed." [integration/jenkins-job-builder-config] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96032 (owner: Mwjames) [20:14:43] (Merged) jenkins-bot: Remove Scribunto from smw-core unit test suite [integration/jenkins-job-builder-config] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96032 (owner: Mwjames) [20:40:36] Yippee, build fixed! [20:40:37] Project browsertests-test2.wikipedia.org-windows-internet_explorer_8 build #575: FIXED in 27 min: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/browsertests-test2.wikipedia.org-windows-internet_explorer_8/575/ [21:30:45] Project TwnMainPage-sandbox.translatewiki.net-linux-firefox build #73: FAILURE in 13 min: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/TwnMainPage-sandbox.translatewiki.net-linux-firefox/73/ [21:33:01] Yippee, build fixed! [21:33:02] Project UniversalLanguageSelector-sandbox.translatewiki.net-linux-firefox build #62: FIXED in 1 min 26 sec: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/UniversalLanguageSelector-sandbox.translatewiki.net-linux-firefox/62/ [21:41:29] Project UniversalLanguageSelector-commons.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org-linux-firefox build #143: FAILURE in 13 min: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/UniversalLanguageSelector-commons.wikimedia.beta.wmflabs.org-linux-firefox/143/ [22:17:09] Yippee, build fixed! [22:17:09] Project VisualEditor-en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-linux-chrome build #155: FIXED in 44 min: https://wmf.ci.cloudbees.com/job/VisualEditor-en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org-linux-chrome/155/ [22:57:02] (CR) Mgrover: [C: 2 V: 2] All MobileFrontend Jenkins jobs should send e-mail notification to the same addresses [selenium] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96058 (owner: Zfilipin) [22:57:09] (Merged) jenkins-bot: All MobileFrontend Jenkins jobs should send e-mail notification to the same addresses [selenium] - https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/96058 (owner: Zfilipin) [23:15:51] interesting glitch test failure in Chrome for VE on test2wiki just now the video from about 24 seconds on looks really weird https://saucelabs.com/jobs/af40afa96c2e479faf562340cc358f42 [23:19:15] chrismcmahon: That is kind of strange, the page seems to start shifting around? [23:29:05] JeffHall: yeah, I've not seen that before, it's pretty psychedelic. looks to me like: User page loads; test clicks Edit; page goes white; instead of loading VE page goes back to Read tab and then flickers. [23:29:42] JeffHall: I saw Chrome do that page-goes-white behavior back in version 29, both manual and automated. it was annoying.